Speaker 1 00:00:16 Welcome to the weekly dive podcast on the add on education network, the podcast where we take the weekly, come follow me discussion. And we try to add a little bit of insight and unique perspective. I am not the host of this show, but the producer of this show, Nate Pifer, but your, uh, your familiar host, Jason Lloyd is on a secret mission. I don't know how much, I don't know how much of it I'm allowed to talk about, but needless to say, I am filling in for Jason this week, but he will be back and he actually should be back in the next couple of days. I will let him give you all of the details of the unbelievable, um, uh, mission that he is on and fill you in on anything that I don't know whether or not I'm even allowed to talk about, but, um, we're going to be doing a two-part, um, uh, discussion this week.
Speaker 1 00:01:18 I will be covering part one. Jason will be coming in in a couple of days, we'll release it Tuesday or Wednesday so that he can, um, either fix anything that I totally blew or didn't cover or didn't cover in a great way. So no fear for those of you out there that, um, despise hearing me try to be smart, um, because trust me, I'm with you. It's not pretty, but, um, we're gonna, we're gonna do our thing today. We're going to give it our best shot and then, um, stay tuned in the next few days and we will get up part two of this discussion today. Um, for the, for the first part that I'm going to be talking about. Um, a lot of it's going to be on the transformation and the, um, restoration and redemption of a few of the different characters, um, that we've been talking about for the past couple of weeks and for this week, the first, um, the first person that I would like to talk about a little bit, because it, it, it explains so much of this, this week's, um, come follow me is the transformation of Joseph.
Speaker 1 00:02:32 Um, when we were talking about this with my kids, um, earlier today, it's funny because I was immediately reminded of the advice I used to give to my high school students that were taking my music classes. I told them that pretty much, um, you will be able to succeed and get anywhere in life if you, if you're a good hang, like if you can be in a room with a lot of people and, or, or, or not a lot of people and your wanted your, your it's okay, that you're around and you can just, you can just kind of feel it out and not be a sore, um, energy or a dark energy in any given space. It's unbelievable how many opportunities you have opened up to you, right? Um, you, you have a long leash. Let's just say it that way. Um, as I was kind of looking over that this week, I was especially interested in the way that Jay or that, um, uh, Joseph started versus the unbelievable man that really wraps up the book of Genesis from, from the text.
Speaker 1 00:03:43 I don't think it's outside the realm of possibility to at least make maybe a couple assumptions. And, and again, I am not going to state any of these as facts, but stay with me for a minute. Joseph was the youngest and he was the only child of Jacob's favorite wife, Rachel, because of this, as we know, Jacob loved him, let's just say it more than the other boys, right? Some of which were from some of his other wives, some of which were from his other wives, um, handmaidens or, or some of his concubines, right. Joseph on the other hand was the youngest and being a father of multiple children, I can definitely see how it is sometimes easy to, to, to spoil the youngest. But as we know in Hebrew culture that we've been learning through this year is that there are certain responsibilities that the youngest is supposed to have that Jacob didn't really enforce.
Speaker 1 00:04:44 It was the job of the youngest to watch over the flocks, who did Jacob have watch over the flux? Cause it wasn't Joseph. It was all of the other older siblings, right. Um, who did Jacob kind of go to, to not necessarily spy on his brothers, but to definitely, uh, relay information back to Jacob about, um, maybe things that his older brothers weren't supposed to be doing. I mean, he, he leaned on, he leaned on the youngest who was already kind of a dissident at a disadvantage with his older brothers and then wanted him to kind of, uh, kind of spy on his older brothers, right? Let's keep going. Then this youngest brother starts having these dreams, as we know, um, because we know the whole story, these were, these were legit dreams and they weren't just, uh, delusions or fantasies of a spoiled child, um, trying to push the buttons of his older brothers.
Speaker 1 00:05:44 But even then, if you're one of these older brothers that are already kind of having a little bit of a beef with this young man anyways, and he comes and says, now I'm having these dreams, by the way, that you're all going to worship me someday. Okay, let's keep going to top it all off. Then, um, dad comes in and says, oh, and I also have this amazing gift for you. I have this gift for you that is loud that everybody can see this. Isn't a subtle thing. As you walk around wearing this really elaborate coat, everybody will know that I love you more than I love everybody else. Okay. So I think we can admit that one, Joseph wasn't done any favors as far as far as, um, um, as far as, uh, putting him in, in, in high, standing with his brothers in the first place, he wasn't done any favors, but I don't think that it's, it's outside at least the realm of possibilities that maybe he probably wasn't the easiest dude to get along with.
Speaker 1 00:06:44 Anyways, I'm going to go back to, oh, N guys, I had this dream where you're going to worship me. So let's take a look at it at the first, the first real change in Joseph, he has his, he has his coat rent. He is put in the earth or maybe symbolic grave he's buried. His coat is, um, is dredged in blood returned back home to the father. And Joseph's first rebirth is going from this really high status, this really high regard to basically a slave being sold. So there's the first, there's the first death rebirth that we can maybe look at symbolically. Right. What's interesting is that it doesn't seem like it takes long for him to learn the lesson from that first. Um, from that first really, I mean, traumatic experience, right? Um, it says that when he went to Potiphar's house, um, you know, Potiphar's respected him and trusted him and loved him and he's immediately over Potiphar's house.
Speaker 1 00:08:00 And if we're looking at ages again, I mean, this has to be somewhere between 18 and 20 years old, somebody might have the specific age. I wasn't able to find it on my quick search, but let's just go with a very young man. But immediately somebody that is grown up enough to the point where he can be, he can be over a house. He can be trusted. He can even be trusted around Potiphar's wife, which by the way, he was correctly trusted around her and he did nothing wrong. Right. And he was apparently loved so much that Potiphar's wife couldn't keep her hands off his coat, his rent again. Right. And I think that there's some symbolism in there I'm totally comfortable letting everybody else kind of take what we've talked about through that already and, and, and make their own connections there, his code, his rent again.
Speaker 1 00:08:51 And it's almost like he's thrown back into another grave. And this is where this is where even I am kind of going like, man, this is, this is actually pretty tough because from the text, it didn't seem like he necessarily needed to be hardened again. But if we look at kind of his story arc, he had dreams when he was a kid, those dreams came to him multiple occasions, which I feel like is a pretty good evidence that they were from God. And not just fantasies of this young man, maybe we don't know if he would have had that opportunity again, to, to use this spiritual gift that God had given him. Had he not been put back into a situation, a heinous situation again, because we don't know how long he was in that prison, but it could be anywhere from, you know, our 5, 10, 12 years. We don't know. We basically know that when he got out, he was around 30 years old.
Speaker 1 00:09:55 This second death is the interesting one to me because I've thought about some of the other, some of the other, uh, symbolisms that we've been taught or, or things that this relates to. And it's funny, cause I can't really think of any, the only thing that came to mind was kind of some of like the outside of church stuff is when I was thinking about it. It reminded me of one of these shows that I watched some times on the history channel where they forged swords. Right. And they first shaped the metal pretty rough. And then they get it really hot to where they can kind of at least get it in a rough shape. And then they, they, um, they let it cool and then they have to heat it up again and kind of do this thing. And then they let it cool again.
Speaker 1 00:10:35 And then they kind of heat it and, and, and they have to continually kind of get it hot and cold to basically bond. And then, and then the final, I think like, uh, you know, cold water bath to really, um, I don't know, lock in all of the material from the metal. I don't know. I'm sure some of you out there that know this exact process think I'm an idiot, but generally speaking, it's the only thing that I could think of that was somewhat close, right? Where the initial, the initial rebirth of Joseph was enough to at least humble him to go. You need to be flexible and moldable, but what's interesting is that in the second symbolic grave, he, he feels forgotten. He feels abandoned, but kind of back to the early thing, there's something interesting about, but he at least had learned how to be a responsible enough.
Speaker 1 00:11:28 Let's just say good enough, hanging that even the prison guards and the head of the prison were like, now this dude's cool. We don't need to worry about anything that he's, we're giving him by the way, responsibility as a prisoner over the prison and whatever his responsibilities are. We, we don't feel like we need to be looking over his shoulder because we trust him. And so even in there there's even things that he is subtly learning in there. The thing that he, the gift I feel like that he learns inside the prison is, is not only to have dreams for himself, but to really understand and to feel confidence in interpreting the dreams of others, which as we know is going to be the key to him, saving his family and then consider the man that went into that prison. Or let's even just say the boy that went into that prison versus the man that came out the incredibly complex, incredibly well-spoken incredibly humble, yet confident, incredibly, emotionally deep and connected.
Speaker 1 00:12:43 And, and, um, I, I don't, I it's just, it's just him. His entire persona changed so much that the man that was reborn out of that prison was not only prepared to save, um, himself, which he was, he was not only prepared to save Egypt, which he did. He was not only prepared to save his family, but just think of, think of how emotionally stable you would need to be to see your brothers again, someday the ones that had caused you so much trauma and pain and anguish, and to have the perspective to go, yeah, guys, I've forgiven. You will eventually, because we're going to talk about this, but eventually I have forgiven you. And I now understand that that needed to happen so that I could be in a position to sh to save you the maturity that it would take to have that perspective is fascinating to me.
Speaker 1 00:13:55 And when you see how complex he was, even in the situations where it shows his love for his family and for his brothers, even though he had grown up his entire life, really without them. Um, and when you see how wise he was, as we're going to talk about here in a second in even finding out if his brothers had actually learned their lesson and had changed and had repented and were ready to be saved and redeemed by him, it's just, it's a fascinating, it's a fascinating story, art and the final gift that, that struck me, at least as I've been going through this. And as I've been trying to really kind of figure out like, how can, how can I apply this? Or what can I, how can I teach this to my children and, and get a lesson from this, right? And that's, and that's truly that in every one of the terrible situations that he was in is one, he were, he, he learned to rely completely by faith in God, but two, when he did receive inspiration or when he was given a gift or when he was given a vision, he was not afraid and not embarrassed.
Speaker 1 00:15:19 And, and 100% committed to what he had learned when he gets out of prison. And he goes and appears before Pharaoh and Pharaoh tells him his dreams and Jacob, or, I mean, I'm sorry, Joseph, not only immediately, because again, Joseph had practice with this part, Joseph immediately fills him in on what his dreams mean, but what does he do immediately after he says, and here's exactly what we need to do so that this isn't going to be a problem here is exactly boots to the ground. How you can take the information that you received in your dreams and do something good with it, the confidence and the, um, the guts of this young man. I mean, maybe part of it was that he just didn't have anything to lose at this point, which is fair. But there is something to be said for that man versus the kid that was thrown into a hole because his brothers didn't want him around anymore.
Speaker 1 00:16:28 What can we learn from this? I will always, again, like when I prepare these lessons, a lot of it's very different stylistically than Jason, because Jason knows all of the answers. I, I know a lot of questions. I'm going to throw this out there for those of you that are listening, what, what do we learn from this? I know for me, at least I can try to be more aware and be more ready because I do feel like I know and have learned the gifts that I have been given, even if I don't know the purpose for some of those gifts yet, but I will say in the opportunities that I have had, and even recently have had to either use those particular gifts or share those or, or unapologetically talk about those, maybe with people that don't fully understand or believe or want to believe or don't know if they want to believe I have gained, I continue to gain confidence that the Lord gives us our gifts for specific reasons.
Speaker 1 00:17:40 And when we can, when we can take the time to really hone those gifts and then be completely unafraid to use those gifts and to share those gifts, when we're presented with the opportunity, we, I at least personally feel like I can am continually blessed for it, supported for it and reminded of why I was given those gifts in the first place. I'm sure that there's a million other things that we could probably take from this, but, but maybe on your own, maybe kind of ponder some of the nuance of, of the young man that was thrown into the pit versus the man that came out of his second grave in a place to truly become a savior and to not only save his family, not only save the entire area around Egypt, but truly to save to at least be there, to help fulfill the covenant that God had made with Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, his father, that his people would be a great nation.
Speaker 1 00:18:47 Second thing I kind of want to talk about, um, is the, is the redemption arc because the character arc is hard to say because we're dealing with so many different dudes, some of which totally ended up losing their, um, their portion of their inheritance from their father, even, but I want to talk about the other sons of Jacob, not Benjamin yet, but he will be peppered in. Um, we see even when Joseph is being sold into Egypt or to, or to the, uh, the Ishmaelites, I believe Jason correct me if I'm wrong. If you're listening somewhere, we know that we know that not every one of his brothers was super stoked on the idea of one killing him, which is probably why they didn't kill him to, I don't even think that all of his brothers were really even stoked on the idea of selling him into slavery.
Speaker 1 00:19:45 But, um, when, when, uh, uh, Jason and I were actually chatting a little bit earlier today, he, he made me aware of some, um, some, um, some extra scripture outside of the Bible that talks actually about Judah even potentially, um, telling Joseph like, oh, Hey, um, I know this is bad, but I'll come and rescue you or I'll come and save you, even though we know that that didn't happen, but at least it would maybe shine some light on, on, on, uh, where his other brothers were on this needless to say, he did still get sold into Egypt. They still lied to his dad about it as a group. And, um, and as a group, I think we at least can maybe assume that the catalyst for change was when they actually did bring that coat back, give it to their father and then, and then watch the reaction of their father.
Speaker 1 00:20:46 Now, um, maybe if we're trying to assume the best in people, we can assume that all of that whole situation may be compounded to make them feel guilty about what had happened. And we do know that they felt guilty about what happened because in, um, in the chapters this week, one of the main reasons that Joseph forgives them is that they won, um, seem like they have been thinking about it and still Harbor some guilt over this, and two are willing to not make the same mistakes twice. So, um, when Jason and I are talking about earlier, it's funny. Cause he used the word, uh, Joseph tried to make, make Benjamin Joseph 2.0, and I don't think I know exactly what he meant by it at first, but I've been working on it today. And I have some thoughts that, that I'm going to share. Um, look at, look at the way when Joseph realizes that these are his brothers, he, he has some pretty complex reactions to this, especially when he says, oh, you guys must be spies.
Speaker 1 00:22:04 And they said, no, I promise we're not spies. And it's interesting because, um, the, the, the sons of Jacob referred to themselves as the 12 sons, there's 12 of us, which there isn't present at least there's 10. And it's interesting the words that they use there, they say, okay, well we have a brother that is back at home. And then we have a brother who isn't with us anymore, basically. And, and the reaction of Joseph to this, I think is at least the initial, the, uh, clue or evidence that, that what they have done is something that has been weighing on them. Whether they feel guilty about what they did or whether they just feel terrible for what it did to their father, either way, it least it's enough to make Joseph not only stop and think, but, but go by himself and weep. Right.
Speaker 1 00:23:13 And as I was reading that today, I had kind of a lot of thoughts. Um, when, when we, what has it been going through the old Testament? We find a lot of symbolism and types of Christ. And, and in this story, especially, we actually have a few, I feel like different types of Christ in here. This, this may be one of them. It's interesting. He, Joseph knows that he can save them. And I think that he, I think that he knows that he will, because he sees now at least the beginnings of that contract, repentant spirit out of his brothers. But I wonder if part of the reason that he wept is because he knows that, that they still haven't fully atoned for what they've done and that it's going to be a painful process. I wonder if even in some ways he's weeping for them, there's the obvious, there's the obvious reasons that he would be weeping.
Speaker 1 00:24:13 One finding out that he has a full brother, that his mother and father had another son after him. And there must have been both probably pain and joy mixed in with that revelation. A part of me wonders if he didn't weep, at least maybe not for himself, but with at least the weight of the realization that he didn't get to have this opportunity to be with his family and to, and to grow up with his brothers and sister with, um, with his parents, with his mother. When I, when I read the complexity, you read into the complexity of that emotional response, like it's, it's incredibly powerful and incredibly emotional for me. And, and the wisdom that Joseph shows here and throughout kind of the rest of this part of the story, I mean is, is truly, is truly something of a grown, beaten down and new man, I guess, because he, he knows what he needs to do to prove his brothers, to see if they've truly repented and truly are different people and maybe worth saving.
Speaker 1 00:25:36 He says, go back. Don't come back here again, unless it's with your younger brother. Now, part of that is probably Joseph wanting to meet his brother as well. But there's a lot of interesting points from here to when they come back with Benjamin. So on the, on the way home, the brothers discovered that Joseph had put some money. He had, he had put money back into their bags, the money that they had brought when it says in the scriptures that says that Joseph basically gave them provisions to make sure that they were going to be okay getting home. But the brothers flip out, cause they're like, oh no, like he's gonna, he's gonna think that we did this on purpose. What are we gonna do? And it's funny. Cause when bad things happen to them throughout these verses, what do they continually reflect on? Oh man, this is God punishing us for what we did to Joseph.
Speaker 1 00:26:30 I just know it. Okay. This is good though. This is good. This is healthy for these guys. Right? They get back home and say, okay, dad, we have a lot of food. Um, we got our money back too. So this is all crazy. I don't know what this is about. This could be good or it could be bad. I don't know. But if we want to go back, we have to take Benjamin with us. And Jacob is just like, I can't possibly like if, if, if anything were to happen or Benjamin, I'm sorry. But yeah, we have to take Benjamin back with us. And Jacob says, if anything were to happen to Benjamin, I'll die, you might as well bury me. So it says that, you know, they, they don't go back right away. They, they, I mean, they burn through their food and remember at this time there's a famine, they burned through their food and now they're going to die.
Speaker 1 00:27:24 Right. And here is another really kind of interesting chance that we get to see a little bit of the symbolism of, and maybe the emotional depth, very vividly of a father that if he isn't willing to at least send his son to potentially die and be sacrificed, it's going to mean the death of his entire family. And, and again, as I was reading through this, I'm like, oh man, here is Jacobs here's Jacob's trial. Here's his test. Here's his Abraham binding Isaac moment where his brothers are going. If we don't take Benjamin, we're all going to die also. So w w this needs to be done. And this is kind of an interesting note in the story and something that sent me down a few rabbit holes today. But Judah is the one that steps up to the plate. Judah says, father, I will be responsible for this. You can kill me and my entire family. I don't come back here with Benjamin. We've got to take him. This has to be done. But I feel like even, even than Jacob, by the way, passing the test and saying, okay, but you guys know what will happen if he doesn't come back, you might as well. You might as well kill me.
Speaker 1 00:28:49 That must have been so incredibly hard by the way, too, with, I can only imagine Jacob having massive flashbacks of when Joseph didn't come back, right? It's hard for me to imagine that Jacob, on some level didn't maybe even accept to some degree that this was just his trial and that maybe there was a good chance that Benjamin wasn't coming back home, but the brothers take him. Obviously they can feel the weight of what's going on with this situation. When they get back in front of Joseph, this is where Joseph does all of the genius things to just really see how much his brothers have changed. They have dinner who gets the most food, who is given five times as much as everybody else, even the way that they are seated. It's so that Joseph can even say, I understand that that guy down there is the youngest they're seated from oldest to youngest.
Speaker 1 00:30:07 Joseph says, okay, that young dude down there, I'm going to give him way more food than any of the rest of you. I'm giving him five times as much. Okay. I'm going to send you guys back with some food and stuff like that, but guess what I'm also going to do. I'm also going to give this youngest guy, this youngest dude, Benjamin, I'm also going to give him a ton more golden, silver, whatever it is, uh, supplies. I'm going to load this dude up. I'm going to see if you guys still resent the youngest brother in this family, because if not, then we can talk. But Joseph provided every opportunity for them to base for, for him to see if Benjamin was basically going to be treated the way that he was.
Speaker 1 00:30:57 They, they obviously hide the goblet or again, as I've been calling it today, as I've been kind of talking through this and writing it down the bitter, the bitter cup, the bitter goblet, because I think there's some symbolism in there too, because by the way, Benjamin was old enough. I mean, we can assume again, mate, let's just say around 20, like Isaac, he was old enough to realize that he was going out into danger and potentially going, going out as a sacrifice and, and willingly in this case, going out as a sacrifice because he knew that it was the only way to save his family. But on their way back when again, the trap was laid, they go back out. What's the response again from the brothers, like this has to be a still getting punished for what we did to Joseph. Okay. That's good dudes.
Speaker 1 00:31:50 That's good. That means we learned something here. Right? So that by the time they get back, by the time that we get to see the final part of this trial, again, Judah steps up to the plate and says, Joseph, let me talk to you. Who doesn't know his name's Joseph, let me talk to you master look, we didn't even want to bring him. You kind of forced our hand for whatever reason we've told you about our dad, this is going to kill him. And then he passes the test. I will stay. You do whatever you will, what you will with me. Benjamin has to go home. I'm sorry. I will absolutely take his place. It's the, the, again, the relief that that must have been by the way to Joseph to see that not only had he grown up, but that his brothers had also actually learned from their mistake.
Speaker 1 00:32:56 They were willing at this point then to pay the ultimate price so that they wouldn't have to do this to their dad. And again, because I want to give them the benefit of the doubt, maybe because they had actually learned their lesson. It's a beautiful, it's a beautiful illustration of the story arc of really of kind of all of the characters involved in this. And again, when we just see, we just see Joseph having to sneak away into his chamber just to weep again. And then when he tells his brother Benjamin, who he is just weeps, again, it's like this, this, this ruler, this, this Viceroy of, of, of Egypt at this place. Th th you know what I mean? Like second, only to Pharaoh is just completely broken by the chance that he has to reconnect with who he is. And, and, and it's beautiful. Joseph reveals himself then to the rest of his brothers, A bunch of weeping, a bunch of I'm sure apologies a bunch of, uh, fear, um, as we read and again, in the text. And, um, and, and Joseph, again, just ever the mature, just solid rock, right? Truly this man of God is just, is just somehow so forgiving. And again, with just like the ultimate perspective and this one, this one can be kind of hard to talk about, but there's,
Speaker 1 00:34:34 There's moments. I feel like in a lot of our lives where, where having the eternal perspective is near impossible and, and the idea that we're always supposed to have that is, I don't want to say offensive, but it can feel a little, um, uh, I don't know, offensive To have somebody say, oh, just keep the eternal perspective.
Speaker 1 00:35:02 I look back at my life and, and you can definitely point to a couple very profound moments where at the time I was hurting and can look back 20 years later and say, oh no, that's that I had no idea that that was even the reason for that happening. And I share some of these from time to time, but I, I do have, um, conversations with friends and, and even just, even in the past few days have had some conversations with some close friends that have, have filled me in, on some pretty devastating, devastating trials that they're going through in their lives right now. And, and, and it feels cheap to say, oh, keep the eternal perspective because of how real the hurt is and how real, so many of the things that we deal with, you know, are, and, and, and the answer may be eventually, yeah, maybe eventually this did happen for a reason.
Speaker 1 00:36:03 And we read stories like this in the old Testament. And, and I think it's, I think we want to believe, oh yeah, wherever you are at your life, no matter how bad it is, you just got to keep the eternal perspective. But I don't know if it's that easy, but what I will say is is that maybe if nothing else, we can look to the examples of a lot of people, by the way, we can look to the examples of, you know, Joseph, when he was in prison. We can look to the examples, you know, in our faith of Joseph Smith, similarly in prison, wondering if he had been abandoned, we can look at that situation. And it's like, we know that his people were being, you know, killed and abused and ran out of town and having their, their, their, you know, kids killed and their homes burned and everything that they had been trying to build.
Speaker 1 00:36:53 And, and even within his own family, these adopted children of his dying from exposure and, and all of these things happening. And we can look, we can look at least maybe two examples like that and say, maybe, maybe it's not about trying to keep the eternal perspective while we're in the moment, as much as it is just holding on, just holding on and, and keeping, even if it's just that sliver of faith that you aren't alone. And knowing that you can, you can call on God to, to rely on the comforter, to at least bring peace in, in those storms. And maybe, maybe that's the best that we can hope for in some of these circumstances. I know that for me, again, years later, it becomes a lot easier to look back and go, oh, okay. I guess, I guess now I can understand why that w that painful time had to happen.
Speaker 1 00:37:57 Um, but, but I guess, you know, my, my thought is is that maybe that's something that we can at least learn from this, from this story. And again, when you do see the way that Joseph, you know, and again, the story is perfect to illustrate my, the point that I'm making, which is Joseph at this point is now, I mean, kind of on top of the world is probably pretty easy for him to, in this part of the story, say, yeah, no problem guys. Like I forgive you, whatever my only thought would be, Hey, say that to him when he was in year seven in prison and felt abandoned by not only, not only, um, his family and his friends, but even God for, for a brief time, maybe, maybe, maybe see if he had that kind of forgiveness in him. And that perspective in him when he was in the belly of the beast, I will, I won't say one way or the other, but at least maybe that's something to consider.
Speaker 1 00:38:57 The last thing I kind of want to talk about, um, on this episode, part one part, one of this episode, because again, I talked to Jason earlier, man. He gave me some great stuff. I don't want to get too much into what he's going to talk about because he's going to come in and obviously do his thing and knock it out of the park and give you all a, that listened to the show. The reason that you listened to the show. But, um, I do want to just briefly talk about some interesting things I noticed when I was reading about, um, Jacobs Jacobs reluctance to go down into Egypt, by the way, even after finding out that his son Joseph was alive. So obviously there must have been an outpouring of joy and emotion, as we can see Jacob fainted, I mean, this, this devastating loss of his, and as he even recounted later, when he was asked by Pharaoh how old he was, he's like, look, I'm old, but I'm not nearly as old as the people before me.
Speaker 1 00:39:59 But I have had a lot of evil in this short life that I've had of a hundred. And I think 17 years, which is sad, actually really actually kind of depressing when you think about it. But, but the overwhelming joy, he must have felt Pharaoh said to Joseph, Hey, take wagons, bring the whole family down. And as we learn later, I'm going to set aside the, the nicest part of Egypt for when your family gets down here, you guys are going to have a good, you know, and again, we can kind of read between the lines Joseph you've saved me, you've saved my kingdom. Look, this is the least that I can do for you. Just, you just, you, I'm gonna, I'm gonna hook you up. So the wagons make it up to Jacob. Um, and, and the remaining part of his family, plus you got to remember that we also have, um, the women and children, basically from the kingdom of Shekem, that was, uh, kind of assimilated into Jacob's house after, um, the whole fiasco with, um, Dinah and, um, the circumcision situation, which again, kind of a funny story about that, which feels weird actually, just saying that in hearing it back in these headphones there's, cause there's really nothing funny necessarily about the story itself, but so apologize for that set up.
Speaker 1 00:41:29 Um, anyways, my, and I hope my brother doesn't mind. I think, I think he told me this, knowing that I may talk about it on the podcast, but he went on a mission to south America and he said, oh yeah, you know, a lot of our campaigns from south America weren't necessarily circumcised just cause it isn't part of the culture down there. But, um, I guess one particular elder for some health reasons needed to have it happened or have it needed to be circumcised. And after it had happened, it was recovering. And he said, you know, we, some of the other elders kind of just took turns, hanging out with him while he recovered. And he said, I don't even remember after he's. I think he said after a week or something, he came back in and said, you know, other PI for, I, I know that the Bible is true and the way that my brother tells it's pretty funny.
Speaker 1 00:42:16 He's just like, yeah. Okay, cool. I agree. I agree. Uh, in, do you want to go, do you want to expound on that in his life? You know, the story of like the, the, the whole kingdom circumcising themselves and my rose, like yeah. And he's like you hero said that the third day was like the worst of all the days. And again, my brother's like, yeah. And he's like, that's true, man. The third day was the worst of all of the days. So I left, he left, Jason said last week, he's like, I don't know why that was put in there. And my brother called to say, that was put in there so that elder so-and-so could have a testimony of the Bible. So if for nothing else, Jason, if you're listening, ever to this, that's why I was put, well, maybe that's not why I was put on that may be one of the reasons why I was put in there anyways, back to the story at hand.
Speaker 1 00:43:09 So anyways, you have a lot more than 70 people going down, even though the scriptures basically list, I think 66 people and then say it was three score and 10 I'm like, oh, there's a lot more than just four people on top of that going. But, um, as we, as we know, and have learned, um, 70 is a number that represents, um, completion or, um, or kind of a universal, um, um, uh, tying together of something or a direction from God. And it, which again, is kind of an interesting thing when you think of our various seventies and quorums of the seventies and, and, and things like that. But it more maybe as a, just a representation of all of his seed. And as it says, all of his seed is basically going down to be uprooted there and replanted in a new land that isn't in the midst of nearly as terrible, at least as a famine is as up north, but at least somewhere where his, his family can not only not die, but truly prosper.
Speaker 1 00:44:17 But then when we look at this, why, why would Jacob be so apprehensive about leaving? Right. Um, it says that he definitely was knew that he was going to be dying soon. And as we, as we read towards the end of these chapters, basically after, um, he has realized like, Hey, my time is up. He makes Joseph come. And again, we see another one of these commitments where he puts his hand under his thigh. And, and, and we know that in a circumstance like this, this must be a pretty, pretty intense, um, uh, request, right? If it's, if it's being made with this intimate of a covenant and it's that his bones don't get dunk, it buried forever in the Egyptian sands. He wants to be, he wants his body to still be brought back to the, to the land of his fathers. And, and, and I, I, I wondered so much why this was so important.
Speaker 1 00:45:20 And, um, you know, I went down again, just doing as much research as possible and kind of as many, um, is as many kinds of commentaries around this from even different religions, as I could just to see what I was maybe missing to see if it was just simply as, as like, oh, Hey, I, this isn't my home. And I want to be buried where I'm from, which by the way would be a totally legitimate, um, request. But it's interesting because I kept getting directed back to a vision and, um, prophecy that Abraham was given from God early on in a vision in, in, uh, Genesis 12, I think 15 through 17, where God basically tells Abraham, this is where we see that the verse on you and your people will be strangers in a strange land. And it even says for four generations, I think, or for 400 years, but it even says how long you will be, your people will be tried.
Speaker 1 00:46:23 And again, if we, if we kind of look at the arc of so many of these characters, it's like, this is almost the first chance that we have of, of edification really through trial. You know, um, at least at least in, in the, from the patriarchs down of these people being moved into somewhere where they're almost, um, going to be dealing with their first real major crisis to come out on the other side of that is different people. You can only assume that Jacob knew of this prophecy and probably understood that he was leading his people down in to begin the process of fulfilling this prophecy. Right. Um, he must've been terrified on, on some level and, and even with God, with him, knowing, knowing that you're leading your people down to a place, um, where they're going to be slaves and going to, um, have to deal with hardships for a long time.
Speaker 1 00:47:25 It, at least it must have been a, um, just a real heavy moment for him. Um, and God comforts him though and says, you know, and, and again, as, as they're headed down, we make a stop back in, um, I believe it's pronounced bear Shiva, beer, Shiva B air Shiva. I don't know. I don't speak Hebrew. Sorry, Jason, wherever you are, maybe listening to this. Um, but if you remember, it's the same place that, um, that we have the story of Jacob's vision that we've talked about of, of basically, um, the temple or Jacob's ladder, right? It talks about Jacob offering sacrifice in this land and what the Lord tells him is actually pretty profound relative to what a lot of people, even those that, that communed with God understood about leaving their promised land during this time period in, in, in this area. But, but, but God says, I will go with you.
Speaker 1 00:48:31 I will go in with you and I will be the one to bring you back out now at this time. And I confirmed this earlier with Jason when we were talking on the phone, but, but God's in this time period, we're very territorial, right? Um, different cultures there, their gods, their gods power was kind of maybe rigidly defined by the areas in which they lived in. And so when you would go into these new areas, you basically were under the jurisdiction of whatever God was from that area. And, and it, it is even interesting because the language, the language leading up to this revelation, he has from God, um, in, in chapter 46, is it even saying that Jacob made sacrifices on the altar to the God of his father, Isaac it's like it almost even sets up the idea that Jacob realized he was still in the territory protected by his God.
Speaker 1 00:49:36 And maybe some of that apprehension was just cultural. Like, as I'm leaving down, am I leaving? Am I leaving the safety of my God? Am I leaving the, uh, you know, I'm, I'm here in a promised land. I'm here in a covenant land. By the way, I am here in the land that God promised my grandfather, my father and me that we would build a nation leaving this land. Am I leaving that covenant? Am I, am I, am I breaking that covenant? Am I, am I doing something that is, that is going to be punishable by 400 years of, of servitude. And God makes a bold statement and, and says, specifically, I will be with you. And I'm going to be the one to bring you out. And the faith that both Jacob and Joseph who had a similar request of, of, I don't want my bones to be buried here.
Speaker 1 00:50:34 I want them back in the promised land of my fathers has a lot maybe to do on top of that, of just the idea that they still understood that God had promised their fathers, the land of Canaan, the promised land, and that they, they had faith that God would still allow them to be with their people and to be amongst their people, even after the trials that they were going to have to endure. The last thing that I would like to talk about, um, in this part, one of this week's lesson is there's some language in chapter 46 that really jumped out at me. And, um, again, a little bit of a production note. I know I've, I've kind of mentioned it a few times, but Jason and I usually when we're prepping for each episode, we'll usually have a pretty solid 30 minutes to an hour conversation before we start recording, especially if we're carpooling down to the studio.
Speaker 1 00:51:33 And we kind of just talk through a lot of the things that really jumped out to each of us throughout the week, kind of researching on our own. And then as we're wrapping up, we usually end up talking for another 30 minutes or an hour of things that we either decided not to talk about in the podcast or, or just some of our kind of thoughts and impressions that we've had after it. So, so a little behind the curtain, but today, today, when I was able to talk to Jason, um, I definitely wanted to bounce a few things off of him before the podcast and this, this one was one of them. And, um, I'm going to introduce it. And this is actually probably where we will pick up as well in part two, because Jason had some really beautiful thoughts on this as well.
Speaker 1 00:52:15 And I actually don't want to, I don't want to try to retell all of his profound perspective on this, but, but I do want to share, I do want to share with you a few of my thoughts on this at the, at the beginning of chapter 46, it talks about like we just talked about Israel, took his journey with the all that he had, and he came to bear Sheba and offered sacrifice unto the God of his father, Isaac. But the language in two and three is really interesting to me. And we've seen this quite a bit so far up to this point in the old Testament, God's spoken to Israel in the vision of the night and said, Jacob, Jacob. And he said, here am I. And he said, I am God. The God of my father, fear not to go down into Egypt for, I will there make of the, a great nation.
Speaker 1 00:53:06 We've seen this wordplay so much that it finally just jumped out and made me go, okay. I, this has continually kind of stuck out to me. What am I missing here? Or am I missing anything? We see, we see Abraham when he goes to, to be presented to God. He says the same thing here am I, Isaac Jacob, we see this later. Um, we see this later in the story. Um, I believe of Samuel where he hears a voice and his response is here. Am I? And the response after is always almost the inversion of that. I am God. Um, it's almost like a mirror, right? And when I was talking about this today with Jacob or with, uh, Jacob, I've said Jacob enough today with Jason, when I was talking about this with Jason, he said, in this context here in the sentence here, am I the word here through, you know, Hebrew or whatever translations I'll let Jason get more into it is behold me or see me. And, and he said, think of the, think of the S think of every story that we've at least talked about when this sentence has been used up to this point in the old Testament. And it's funny because we can start right back at the very, very, very beginning of Genesis. What is the difference between Abraham, Isaac, Jacob in these circumstances versus Adam we're in the garden, Adam, Adam, where are you?
Speaker 1 00:54:55 Where are you? Oh, uh, sorry. I was naked. And I hid so pretty much exactly the opposite of behold me, look at me here. Am I, even in my nakedness, I'm here. I hear my name. You know, you know, of all of my flaws anyways, you know of my nakedness, but here am I. And, and it's interesting to then look at the responses, but of God in those circumstances, again, God, with Abraham and an akin with this instance that you read this here with Jacob, God then gives the reflection of that. I am Cod. And when you, when you almost look at the, you almost look at what that response could or couldn't be saying, but, but just for the, for the, for the sake of discussion, follow me on this, God, you know, you know what I am, you know who I am. There is nothing that I can hide from you, but I'm here. What would you like of me? And God's response is look at me. I am what you can become.
Speaker 1 00:56:22 Yeah. There are some things that we need to work on. Yes, you are exposed. Yes. I do know. I do know, but that's why I sent my son to a tone or to, as we've learned, cover, to cover you, to cover for you to cover up your nakedness. I see you. I behold you, but I want you to be Holt me so that you know, what lies in store for you. If you will let the atonement cover you, if you will offer up your will as a sacrifice, if you will put the natural man or the animal instincts of you on that altar to be killed in sacrificed, like my son was killed in sacrificed.
Speaker 1 00:57:24 I behold you, but I want you to behold me. I am God, and I have the power to redeem you. So as we go throughout this week, um, hopefully we've been able to get somewhere together, hopefully, um, something has maybe jumped out again for those of you preparing lessons. Um, hopefully something in here has been, uh, worthwhile. Um, I really, um, I do actually really enjoy preparing for these solo, um, podcasting's, uh, pod podcast. Fill-ins even though I'm definitely not nearly as comfortable doing it as Jason is, I've definitely a more comfortable behind the, the production production side of this. But, um, something that I think that even on the podcast we are going to try to be a little bit better about though, is, is maybe kind of when it's all said and done remembering that, that we need to be applying these things that we're learning in very real ways, because these scriptures even were written for us, for us to learn from the, the, the eloquent, beautiful symbolisms of the atonement of our Savior's love of our father's love for his children.
Speaker 1 00:58:50 So many of these, um, beautiful symbols are all throughout the, the chapters this week, and maybe just be acutely aware and always, um, looking for any little clues that might, that might really help a lot of these scriptures come to live and become very real and very impactful even now in our day-to-day lives and not just, not just become stories that that are sometimes hard to understand or to, to draw any meaning from. But, um, uh, that's all I got for this week. And again, if you guys have any questions or comments, please always feel free to hit us
[email protected], um, beyond the lookout for another follow-up part to podcast in the next few days. And until next week,
