The Family: A Proclamation to the World

[00:00:00] Speaker A: Foreign. Welcome to the weekly Deep Dive podcast on the Add on Education Network. The podcast where we explore the weekly Come follow me discussion and try to add a little insight and unique perspective. I am back. Your host, Jason Lloyd, here in the studio again with my friend and this show's producer, Nate. Holding the line. [00:00:35] Speaker B: Pifer holding the line, baby. What's up? [00:00:38] Speaker A: Thanks, Nate, for covering for me. [00:00:41] Speaker B: Not my pleasure. Glad you're back, buddy. [00:00:44] Speaker A: Oh, it was a good opportunity. I'm glad I'm back too. We were down in Florida. [00:00:53] Speaker B: Nice. [00:00:53] Speaker A: And trying to think. Saratosa went to soccer and watched. Watched my son play a few games there. And down to Old Venice where we stayed for the three days. Fun trip. Yeah. This week's episode we're going to be covering the family a proclamation to the world. This is our second to last episode for the year. Then we have a Christmas message next week to wrap everything up. So the family of proclamation of the world is pretty awesome because it's modern revelation that we get to talk about. And when I say modern, I mean, yeah, most of Doctrine and Covenants is relatively modern, but it's not 1995 modern. [00:01:37] Speaker B: Sure. [00:01:37] Speaker A: Like this is our deal. [00:01:40] Speaker B: Right. [00:01:41] Speaker A: So President Oaks, and this was an interesting statement that he said, I find it quite powerful. He says, I believe our attitude toward and use of the family proclamation is a test for this generation. I pray for all Latter Day Saints to stand firm in that test. [00:02:03] Speaker B: I love that. [00:02:04] Speaker A: And as you read the proclamation, it's easy to see how this could be a test. President Eyring taught the families give God's children the best chance to be welcomed to the world with the only love on earth that comes close to what we felt in heaven, parental love. And I love what Eyring is saying here when he's saying that this gives God's children the best chance to be welcomed to the world with the only love on earth that comes close to what we felt in heaven. And it's not saying the only chance. There are obviously parents that love their kids and maybe a less not the ideal family. Right. You can feel love. You can have it. He's not saying that you can't. He's just saying that this is the best chance. And I look at the family and I know this is hard because not everybody has an ideal family for various reasons, for whatever the case may be. And maybe they want an ideal family. And maybe this is a subject that is sensitive and hard for them because it is something that they have wanted for so long. And to say that it is. Ideal, I think, is still very important. And I am trying to think of the best way to describe this. And I'm thinking of a board sitting on a fulcrum. And if you have a board with a large group of people that you need to balance on this fulcrum, imagine if you will, the ideal spot to be is at the middle of this board. Because if you're sitting on the edge, it's going to tip the scales and you're going to fall and other people are going to be going up in the air. Right. Just because that's the ideal place to be doesn't mean everybody has to be stacked in a tall human tower right at the middle. Right? You can have, you want as many as you can to fit towards that ideal. You want as much as you can, but you're still going to have people out drifting towards the wings and you're balancing it on either side. But that does not change that the ideal is there at the center. Even if you have to have somebody out here balancing over on this side and somebody out here over there. Some circumstances are going to demand a less than ideal family. Sometimes you're thrown into a situation where, where the ideal isn't going to happen for you. But if you move the ideal away from the center, then things start to change and it's less than ideal. You don't maintain that balance. And thinking about this with a car, you have ideal driving safety requirements for a vehicle, ideal amount of tread on your tires, ideal amount of maintenance that's required for that vehicle. Not everybody's going to be hitting this ideal, but it doesn't mean you don't chase that ideal. You're not looking for that ideal. And can you drive a vehicle if the tread is less than ideal? Sure. But what happens if you shift the ideal now to not nearly as stringent as a requirement, and everybody starts driving in a situation that's less than ideal, then all of a sudden you're going to have tires flipping off, blowing on the road more often than what you already do. You're going to have more tread flying in the road, more accidents. It leads to more chaos than what you already have. And as I read the family, a proclamation to the world, and I see the prophets talking about the importance of a family and describing this as an ideal situation, as I feel our society shifts the ideal, it unbalances society as a whole and it creates a dangerous situation that we are all driving in. And that's kind of where I want to hit. Maybe let's Go through some of these paragraphs in the family proclamation to the world. And, and can I jump in? Yeah, please do. [00:06:29] Speaker B: I think that, I think that what you're saying is incredibly important to consider. I think that, you know, you can look around and you can look at your parents or your grandparents, whoever. Somewhere along that line. Sorry, excuse me, you can probably find a quote unquote, less than ideal family situation. Right. Somewhere along the line, grandparents maybe might have had a father who drank, maybe, you know, you have, you know, someone close to you, parent or grandparent, that maybe their father wasn't there or their mother died when they were young or whatever. I guess I'm just saying it's like you can look at those less than ideal situations, but I think that walk back to the middle sometimes is learning from, learning from maybe the less than ideal situation that you may find yourself in with the resolve to make your. The next generation or the next situation, doing everything you can to make that the ideal situation. Right? Yes. And, and sometimes it can take generations to get there. But I think that as long as the, as long as the. And that's why I'm glad we're going to get into this specifically and some, some specifics because I feel like if as long as you're, as long as you are committed to making the situation you're in ideal or not even better, when it's your chance to create that situation, that's the, that's the, that's the way to still make the best of even the non ideal situation that you may find yourself in. Right? [00:08:12] Speaker A: Yes. [00:08:12] Speaker B: And. You spoke to the idea that as society and the world that we live in try to change what the ideal situation is, and we do everything that we can to try to like, outthink ourselves and to prove some sort of, I don't know, New Age intellectual. [00:08:42] Speaker A: I. [00:08:43] Speaker B: Don'T know, I don't even know the word for it. Right. But as we basically try to outsmart the room, well, you know, what we used to consider as the nuclear family is now no longer whatever because X, Y and Z. But then you look at all of the problems in society that have direct consequences to the lack of an ideal family situation. And almost every single, every single plague that we're seeing in our society and in our schools and in our homes and in our, you know, government and around us, so many, if not all of them can be easily stem back to the collapse of the family of the. Call it traditional, call it whatever you want to, but call it the ideal family situation. I'll call it the ideal family situation. And so many of those things so directly stem back to the erosion of that. [00:09:53] Speaker A: It absolutely does. And it's not just religion that's stating that. [00:09:59] Speaker B: Oh, I don't, I'm not even saying this from a religious standpoint. I'm saying this from like the scientific look at the numbers standpoint, from national. [00:10:07] Speaker A: Documents, from presidential speeches. There is a lot out there that talks about the importance of the family and the deterioration of the family and the impact that that's having on society. You look at the rates and the jails, the housing, criminals, what's going on and where it's happening and what's. There's a lot of evidence out there that supports what we're saying about the ideal family, what the prophets are saying, what God has been saying. And I find it perhaps, to me, this is a good way of balancing this, where God teaches us that this is a family, this is what a family unit looks like, and this is what is ideal. And then you go to the example in the scriptures, and even though it is the ideal, he is still telling us it is okay that you are not the ideal. I just want you to push for that ideal and not to change the ideal. Work for that. Because I want you to name one family in the scriptures that was an ideal family, one family that was a cohesive family, family that worked. I don't, I don't think you can. [00:11:23] Speaker B: No, I mean, they all had their, they all had their issues. [00:11:26] Speaker A: I mean, we want to start with Adam and Eve. [00:11:29] Speaker B: Sure. And, and we'll be there. [00:11:31] Speaker A: Right, right off, right off the bat, Cain and Abel. And you want to talk about Abraham sacrificing his son and the weird things that go on there and, and the. [00:11:41] Speaker B: The wife or his dad or Abraham's dad sacrificing him. [00:11:47] Speaker A: And Jacob, his 12 sons when they decide to sell one of his into slavery. [00:11:52] Speaker B: How about Jacob and his own brother Jacob and Esau having to trick his dad with the help of his mom. [00:11:59] Speaker A: Lehi and Sariah and talking about Nephi and the brothers wanting to kill him. I mean, the scriptures are full of examples of families that just aren't hitting the ideal. Not to say that, hey, I mean, here is the expectation, here is what you are striving for. But by the way, all of these heroes, these examples, they are not perfect, just like you. Just because you are not perfect doesn't mean you shouldn't be struggling for the ideal. It's in fact, because you're not perfect. You should be struggling for the ideal, for what it's worth. [00:12:36] Speaker B: Love it. [00:12:37] Speaker A: All right, let's get into the. Let's get in the first two paragraphs. I think that's about as far as I'm going to get right here at the start. We, the First Presidency and the Council of the twelve Apostles of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, solemnly proclaim that marriage between a man and a woman is ordained of God and that the family is central to the Creator's plan for the eternal destiny of his children. Already you have some powerful statements. The idea that marriage is between a man and woman is ordained of God, that family is central. All human beings, male and female, are created in the image of God. Each is a beloved spirit, son or daughter of heavenly parents. And as such, each has a divine nature and destiny. Gender is an essential characteristic of individual, premortal, mortal, and eternal identity and purpose. Now, I've heard a lot of people talk about how the proclamation to the world is very prophetic. And you hear them talking about these issues when you're talking about gender and marriage between a man and a woman and talking about family, and these issues have been called into question. And it almost feels like these issues. So we're talking about this family proclamation being released in 1995, and then you look at where society has gone and questioning marriage between a man and a woman and questioning gender. Is the family proclamation to the world prophetic? Have all of these issues been coming since the proclamation? Was the proclamation getting ahead of the curve or was it right in with the curve? And for me, these issues weren't that prevalent until the last, I don't know, 10, 15 years, man. [00:14:37] Speaker B: I don't even think it's been that long. [00:14:40] Speaker A: And that's what it feels like because it just didn't seem to be a very prominent role in my life. But these issues have been going on for actually a long time. And when we talk about prophets being prophets, I think this is interesting. Go back to Doctrine and Covenants, when the Lord talks about his vineyard and he talks about a watchtower being built and a person being able to stand on the watchtower so that they can see what is happening and then warn the rest. So in context of a watchtower and a prophet being that person on the watchtower, I would almost think that the watchtower, the prophet, is going to be seeing changes in the world that are going to be picking up momentum that they can prepare us for, not because he has no idea that this is coming. In fact, if I've learned anything in Doctrine and Covenants. This year, it's that Revelation. The Lord isn't just going to say, here, you're going to need this. And, oh, by the way, you're also going to need this. And here, let me pack this for you. It's instead, hey, you didn't ask, so I didn't tell you. You've got to be thinking about these things. You've got to be wondering about these things and taking them to the Lord. And then the Lord gives you revelation to guide you through. And he expects the prophet to be building this watchtower so that he can have his eyes on the situation, see what's happening, and react to it. So in that sense, I would think that some of these issues had to have been issues before 1995. So in that vein, I started to do a little bit of history. And let's go back. 1965, Hopkins Hospital became the first academic institution in the United States to perform sex reassignment surgeries. 1965, 1979 was the first march on D.C. for lesbian and gay rights. Back in 79. 1991 was the first Southern Comfort Conference, the major transgender conference that takes place annually in 1994, one year before this proclamation is released. And LGBT History Month was established in the United States this October. So these things were going on. So as we start looking at some of the revelations that the church has received, I like to look at this, and it helps me understand the role of a prophet. It's not just somebody who babbles about some nonsense that you don't understand. It's someone who's informed and looking out for us and looking at what's happening in the world and where the world's headed, and then takes that to the Lord, takes his concerns to the Lord, asks him what he needs to do. The Lord provides him counsel, and they prepare us for the storm that's to come. That's kind of how I see this as I look at history and how it interacts in the family of proclamation to the world. And sure enough, like a tsunami, it came, but it didn't come without a first few signs of it being on its way. So I thought that was interesting. Next paragraph. In the premortal realm. And Nate, feel free to anything I hit on here. You want to just jump in? Feel free. [00:18:03] Speaker B: Yeah, I will. [00:18:04] Speaker A: In the premortal realm, spirit sons and daughters knew and worshiped God as their eternal father and accepted his plan, by which his children could obtain a physical body and gain earthly experience to progress toward perfection and ultimately realize their Divine destiny as heirs of eternal life. The divine plan of happiness enables family relationships to be perpetuated beyond the grave. Sacred ordinances and covenants available in holy temples make it possible for individuals to return to the presence of God and for families to be united eternally. And the family is just so, so critical. The first commandment that God gave to Adam and Eve pertaining to their potential for parenthood. Excuse me, pertained to their potential for parenthood as husband and wife. We declare that God's commandment for his children to multiply and replenish the earth remains in force. We further declare that God has commanded that the sacred powers of procreation are to be employed only between man and woman lawfully wedded as husband, wife, maybe. Let's talk a little bit about that. The very first commandment, not love God, not love your neighbor, but the very first commandment is to fill the earth. And we're going to talk about, replenish and fill when we hit Genesis here in a few weeks. So I'm going to save that for that discussion then. But the idea that his commandment, the first commandment he gives is to have children, there's been a lot that almost demonizes the idea of intercourse and having children and that children are conceived in sin because it was a sinful act that brought them into this world. And it's interesting to me that something that's so sacred, so special and so powerful, it's almost because it's so sacred, so special and powerful, it gets attacked and twisted and turned. And I don't know of anything else in this life that is as distorted or perverted as the idea of filling the earth of having kids, sexual sin and promiscuity. I mean, obviously that's been something that's been raging since the beginning of time. But not just that, but the attack on families, the attack on having children, the idea of population control. Was it the 60s 70s? You had the professor that wrote the Population Bomb about how the whole world was doomed and going to come to an end within 30 years because of overcrowding and overpopulating and this bomb that they prophesied. So you want to talk about prophets who are looking at things that are happening in the world and say, hey, by the way, I see this coming. Families are critical and you need to have more children. And then you have these other people, this professor, for example, and he's not standing alone, who looked at the conditions of the world, and rather than taking it to God and saying, hey, this is concerning, what do we need to do. They are more wise than God and say, hey, the whole world is going to end. Prophesying that the world is going to come to an end within 30 years from overcrowding. So fast forward 30 years, 40 years, 50 years, and the population bomb is defused. [00:21:57] Speaker B: Not only. Not only is it diffused, but there's. It's almost in some places, I think, swung so hard the other way that they're encouraging people to start having more children. Like, I know, I think, was it China or something even like that? [00:22:14] Speaker A: It's the new crisis. For the very first time in our history, the world population shrunk over the last year. [00:22:22] Speaker B: That's crazy. [00:22:25] Speaker A: The world population has shrunk. It's a huge problem in Italy, it's a problem in China, it's a problem in the United States. [00:22:33] Speaker B: Yeah, I was going to say Elon Musk was out there telling us to save the culture. We all need to start having kids again. [00:22:40] Speaker A: So if we want to point fingers and say, who is a false prophet? We had one prophet that said, hey, we're looking at this situation, we're looking at things. And the solution is God's command to have kids hasn't gone anywhere. We need to keep having kids. And man stands up and says, I am a prophet. The whole world's going to end within 30 years if we don't stop having kids. That, to me, it's fascinating because he thought that they would all starve to death. And if you look at population, it grew faster than what he predicted. But you look at starvation, and it dropped exponentially. Advances in agriculture, advances in technology, and instead of having this population where everyone is starving to death and there's not enough food and everyone is withering away, you have a larger problem today with obesity than starvation, with excess, with diabetes, with all of these problems that come with too much. So I look at what the world is saying and what the world is predicting, standing in the place of a prophet, building their watchtowers, looking at what's happening in the world and warning us. Then I look at the prophet doing it, and what's the statement? The wisdom of God sometimes seems like foolishness to man, but the single greatest lesson we can learn is that when God speaks and a man listens, that man will always be right. So that, to me, is interesting. We declare the means by which mortal life is created to be divinely appointed. Note that they're not saying, we declare that childbirth is divinely appointed. We declare the means by which mortal life is created is divinely imported. I think that is an important distinction. [00:24:52] Speaker B: Very much so. [00:24:55] Speaker A: Intimacy is not something that should be frowned upon. It is divinely appointed. We affirm the sanctity of life and it's important in God's eternal plan. Husband and wife have a solemn responsibility to love and care for each other and for their children. Children are an heritage of the Lord. Parents have a sacred duty to rear their children in love and righteousness, to provide for their physical and spiritual needs and to teach them to love and serve one another. Observe the commandments of God and be law abiding citizens wherever they live. Husbands and wives, mothers and fathers will be held accountable before God for the discharge of these obligations. You want to know what the final judgment day looks like? Husbands and wives, mothers and fathers will be held accountable before God for the discharge of these obligations to rear their children in love and righteousness, to provide for their physical and spiritual needs, and to teach them to love and serve one another. Observe the commandments of God. You're not going to be judged on whether or not your kid was the fastest runner or the best player on the team or the smartest kid in class. You're going to be judged on how you carried out your duties in regards to teaching your children this. Not to say that the other is wrong. There's a place for everything. But understand, this is what you're going to be held accountable for. This is what you're scored against. The family is ordained of God. Marriage between man and woman is essential to his eternal plan. Children are entitled. This is an interesting statement when we're talking about entitlement today and we say, whoa, whoa, are you really entitled to this? Do you really have. I mean, is everyone entitled to. But here we're using this statement. Children are entitled to birth within the bonds of matrimony. What makes them entitled to that? Because you might think an entitlement today seems to mean something very different, right? Like everyone deserves to have everything. I deserve to have this phone or I deserve to have a participation trophy or whatever the case may be. Why is it that children who haven't done anything yet are entitled to this? Children are entitled to birth within the bonds of matrimony. I believe it's because a child cannot be created without the two parties being involved. If there is a restriction and how children are being brought into the world and that those conditions have to be met in order for a child to be born, then the child is entitled to be born with those conditions in place, because that is the only way a child can be born. Into the world is if those two conditions where a mother and a father are getting together or a male and a female are getting together to create a child, that is the only way a child can come into the world. And they are entitled to some level of commitment, some relationship between man and woman in order for them to be born. That's something that they should be entitled to. We talk about entitlement this day. There's a lot of things that people think that they are entitled to, but this one kind of falls out. Children are entitled. If that is the only way children can be created, then they should have that when they get here. All right, I'm going to get to the heart of this, where I really want to go. Let's see. They're entitled to the birth within the bonds of matrimony and to be reared by a father and a mother who honor marital vows with complete fidelity. Happiness in family life is most likely to be achieved when founded upon the teachings of the Lord Jesus Christ. Successful marriages and families are established and maintained on principles of faith, prayer, repentance, forgiveness, respect, love, compassion, work, and wholesome recreational activities. By divine design, fathers are to preside over their families in love and righteousness and are responsible to provide the necessities of life and protection for their families. Mothers are primarily responsible for the nurture of their children and these sacred responsibilities. Fathers and mothers are obliged to help one another as equal partners. And that term equal, when it goes back to God and Adam in the Garden of Eden. Is it good for man to be alone? It is not good. It has never been good for man to be alone. And you know what is even worse? For man to be not necessarily alone, but with a bunch of other men. That's a recipe for disaster. [00:30:15] Speaker B: Or a recipe for awesomeness. [00:30:19] Speaker A: If I think back on all the dumb things I did. [00:30:22] Speaker B: You mean awesome things. [00:30:24] Speaker A: It is not good for man to be with man. [00:30:28] Speaker B: Be with the bros. [00:30:31] Speaker A: It's fun times, but it's not. It's a recipe for disaster. But going back to that statement, and they're saying, okay, let's find a help meet. And the idea that help, sometimes people interpret that as, oh, he's looking for a servant, a helper, but it's not a help as a servant, as someone diminutive, it's a help meet. And meet means it's equal to the challenge, right? If it's meet, it's worthy of so a help or somebody to help him that is meet or equal to the challenge, equal to him. And I love the statement from the rabbis that say, when God created Eve, he didn't take from the head of man that she would rule over him. He did not take from the foot of man that he would rule over her, but he took from the side of man that the two would be equal together. This idea that it was a help that is equivalent to. And that is what the prophets are saying here when they say equal. And when they are saying equal, it is not saying that they have the same responsibilities. It can't be that everyone does the same thing or not everything gets done. Someone has to do some things, someone has to do other things. And together they complement each other. Being that the some things are not more or less important than the other things, but that they should be equal to each other in importance. And so they, they deal out these different responsibilities. Let's see, in sacred responsibilities, fathers and mothers are obliged to help one another as equal partners. Disability, death or other circumstances may necessarily necessitate individual adaptation. Extended families should lend support whenever needed. And we're going to circle back around to this. Extended family should lend support. But I want to. This is where I really want to go with this message. This is to me the one paragraph that stands out for what it's worth more than any other paragraph in this whole family proclamation. And this is going to circle us right back to the beginning where I think you want to go, Nate. We warn that individuals who violate covenants of chastity, who abuse spouse or offspring, or who fail to fulfill family responsibilities will one day stand accountable before God. Further, we warn. So here you have your watchman on the tower. We warn that the disintegration of the family will bring upon individuals, communities and nations the calamities foretold by ancient and modern prophets. That to me is the most powerful statement and wraps this up. The disintegration of the family will bring upon individuals, communities and nations the calamities foretold by ancient and modern prophets. And I think right now might be a good opportunity to look kind of at the beginning when we were talking about what happens when the ideal shifts. That board that's sitting on the fulcrum, if you will, if we're to look at single income households versus double income households, in a couple cases you're going to have double income households where whatever the situation is, that is ideal for. [00:34:16] Speaker B: Them, both mom and dad are bringing in money. [00:34:18] Speaker A: Yeah. And that's going to work and that's going to be okay. But in a situation where instead of just a few here, a few there, now Most of society is chasing after that. You're going to be moving that fulcrum. It's going to be coming the new ideal. Let me explain. From an economic standpoint, what I'm talking about was you have a lot of double income households where both parents are working in a case where you have a few single income households, they're competing to try to buy a house with people that can pay twice as much. And if you have a lot of people that can pay twice as much, they're going to be able to. It drives the cost up, economically speaking, the price of houses is going to go up. The price of cars, the price of commodities, everything. Because you're competing with households that now earn twice as much as what they could have made before. [00:35:15] Speaker B: Sure. And in some of those households it's just to survive. Right. Like in some of those households it's just to survive. But even then, not all of them are. And for better or for worse, you're just saying just from just strictly a, here's the numbers. Those things because of supply and demand are just driving the prices up. [00:35:35] Speaker A: Yeah. And as it drives the prices up, then that single income household has to find ways to try to make ends meet. And it's going to be pushing them to chase this ideal. How do I get that car? How do I get that house? Maybe we need to consider having the second income or maybe we need. And now all of a sudden it's changing the ideal and they're trying to push to the next level. They're chasing this new family model, if you will. And in saying this, I want to be careful because I know that there are some houses where you do have to have both people working. Maybe that is a situation, like I said, with this ideal shifting. There's a difference between a couple people that have to do it versus a large majority in society are living that way. And, and now everybody else is forced to try to almost have to do that just to try to keep up and make a living. [00:36:27] Speaker B: I'll always just say I don't ever think it's as easy as anybody can just do this because they want to. For instance, I was lucky enough that when my mom was working when we were little she was able to get a job like in the school district and she was actually able to be super involved in, you know, when, when me and my two sisters at the time, time were in school. But I also love the confidence that it gave her to have to, to be working and to be involved in, in the community. And she, you know, got on the city council, and she was. She was a huge part of the community, and that ended up being such an incredible example to us as kids. And the work that she's done for the governor of Utah and with helping with education across the state of Utah, I guess. I guess I will. You know, I know what you mean, and I think that you're saying the same thing, which is, again, in a perfect, ideal world, this is probably how it would be. You know, this is how things would be structured. And I'm glad you mentioned it, because I would just say at the same time, like, I think that me being able to see my mom really, like, blossom and serve and, you know, basically preach education while she was, you know, going and getting her master's degree and all these things, and. And then seeing the confidence that gave her and the happiness that she. She carried with her because of those things, that's. I didn't. I don't feel like I was any less nurtured. I don't feel like I was any less loved. And. And in fact, if anything, like, it was a. It was like the. The confidence and self worth that instilled in her very much, was an example to us and rubbed off on us and made her a better mom. [00:38:43] Speaker A: Yeah. And I want to be very careful with how I say this. I'm not trying to say that no woman should ever work in the workforce, and I'm certainly not trying to justify when a woman does go work in the workforce that she's discriminated against, that she's not paid a fair wage. And I feel like women have, to a degree, been oppressed by society for a long time in trying to enter into the workplace. And I don't want anyone to feel looked down upon because they have to go work or because they want to go work. And I want to be very careful with what my message is and saying. I'm not trying to say that that is inappropriate or that that is wrong, but I am trying to say that as society shifts their focus and pushes for more outside of the ideal, or maybe diminishes the role of a woman who's at home to say that you're just at home and that that's not important. [00:39:56] Speaker B: Sure. Which people get judged for all the time. Also, I mean, don't ever jump on Twitter because it's the ugliest place on earth. But, yeah, scrolling through Twitter myself, occasionally rolling around in the mud, you see very weird judgment being thrown towards women who, because of their desire and want to stay at home, not because of any sort of obligation socially or religiously. They're just like, this is what I've always felt my calling is. Like my wife, one of the first things she said when we were married, she's like, it's important to me that when we have kids, I don't want to have to work and I want to stay home. I mean, to be fair, I was like, cool, well, I want to do music for a living. So I guess we're both going to do what we want to do. Right? I guess the idea is like, yeah, I'll support you in what you want to do, and you can support me in what I want to do. And we've kind of had a, I guess a fair agreement going into that. Right. And the thing is that I never pressured her because, again, I have seen so many examples around me of women being an incredible example to me of really showing me how things are done right and instilling love and confidence and all these things in me by me getting to witness their examples in this exact conversation, either staying at home or not staying at home or whatever it is that they want to do. And so, again, I think that what I'm understanding from what you're saying is, and again, maybe just to try to put the fine point on it, is there are, though, just natural occurring consequences that happen as societal norms shift. [00:41:50] Speaker A: Absolutely. [00:41:51] Speaker B: And it's not. And it's not you placing judgment on that. If I feel like I'm understanding you correctly, it's not you saying that this is. That you're going to say morally or whatever it is, that it's right or wrong, because all of those decisions aren't for you and I to decide. Right. I think is kind of the point. We're not, Jason and I aren't here to at all tell you what's right or wrong for you in your personal situation in life. I think. I think that what we're trying to say is, and again, correct me if I'm wrong, Jason, is that. But as different societal norms change, which. That is it. Which is. That is a societal change from when our parents were kids, right, where the majority of. Of families were organized, where the husband was the breadwinner, mom held the house down, which is a harder job, in my opinion, because I've tried it before and it's tough. But that that was kind of societal norms and that there were a lot of, you know, really great cultural things that came along with that. But as societal norms have changed, and again, we'll let you Decide for better or for worse, that's, that's not up for us to decide. Very natural consequences or changes come along with that, like raising house prices and things like that. Where now if you want to, if you want to, you know, be a single income earning family, you're, you're, it's, it's just naturally going to be harder for you to compete in things say, like the housing market. Am I, am I putting a fine point on this correctly or am I missing this? Absolutely, because the thing is like, and I, and I think that the only reason I'm reiterating this is because I'm sensitive to this and definitely don't want to ever. Would never want, would never want anybody to feel like we think that we know the personal situation that's best for everybody. And again, even the ideal family, that's. That, that alone can be such a complicated thing. Right? And sometimes, I mean, we all know people that have stayed in terrible, toxic, abusive relationships because they have felt the pressure to meet some or meet the standard of like, well, but the ideal family is this. And so now I'm going to let myself be taken advantage of or abused or let my children be taken advantage of, approved, abused, because I'm trying to achieve the quote, unquote, ideal family. And so even then you go, oh, no, no, no, no, the ideal family for you is not this right now, right? And maybe the ideal family for you right now is get out of this terrible, abusive, toxic thing for the safety of yourself and for your kids and then teach, use this as a teaching experience for them to go, and now here's how to be better than us for your future generations. Right? And so I think that again, like, this is where sometimes these things get a little bit tricky and are kind of hard to talk about is because each situation is so dramatically different. And it's not as easy as if you do exactly this, you will be happy. Like, what? Like, no, that's not how that works either. You know, like, yes, even if, even if you are in, quote, unquote, the ideal family structure, that doesn't even necessarily mean it's the most ideal situation. And so, and so again, I just, I only say that because I just, I always, with subjects like this, just want to be very careful to go, of all the things, please know that we are very understanding that situations are dynamic and different. And so much of this is man, what works for you and God and your family or not family, or the situations that are heartbreaking where it's like, cool, maybe a Family in this life, as much as you might want, it isn't in the cards. You didn't do anything wrong, you know. [00:46:18] Speaker A: Which is why I thought the Fulcrum would be a good example. And looking at a board and the idea that if you just had everybody crowd into one spot, it's not going to work. As you're spreading out and trying to make this work, you're going to need some people on the end, you're going to need some people over here. And for that person, it's going to be an ideal spot. And society is not going to work without that person filling their role. But if the whole group shifts that direction and all of a sudden we redefine what we're trying to do and we lose balance, that becomes a problem. [00:46:57] Speaker B: And I think that's the point that you said that I think is the best point, which is trying to redefine to better fit what we've decided is the ideal, right? The new ideal. And again, where everybody at is such a different thing in life. But there are certain things that you can look statistically in this world and go, when X, Y and Z are in place, the future of the children in that family have a better chance of never being in poverty, have a chance of staying out of jail. You know what I mean? Like certain things, I mean things as simple as eating dinner together as a family. I mean, I know that it's a statistic that we've probably talked about or that at least floats around and again, I don't know the exact number, so I'll be careful. But it's some insane disparity between the. If you graduate high school and don't start having children until you're married, it's like it's, it's nearly. You are guaranteed to not stay in poverty for the rest of your life. Like those two things alone basically guarantee that no matter where you start from, you will not finish in poverty. Now you look at then, okay, now let's break those two things down. Graduating high school, okay? Look at all the statistics, look at all the statistics of children coming from stable homes with two parents, say in this situation, right? Or one parent who's incredibly involved and gives a crap. Look at the graduation rates. No matter what the actual, like financial situation is in those situations, right? Look at the numbers of those students that are graduating versus students that are coming from maybe a single parent home where the parent is totally not involved and is busy trying to do their own thing or whatever it is. And maybe in some of those Situations, you've replaced one of the parents with whatever that is, a government subsidy, maybe a, I don't know, a television to park the kids in front of whatever it is, right? It's like, okay, look at the situation of, okay, having. Having children after you're married. It's like, okay, well, cool. Well, where do you get that example from? Are there certain things in society and community that are telling and encouraging young people that that's not an important thing to do anymore? I mean, I'm asking the question. To me, that's the most obvious yes of anything we've talked about today, right? So you look at the two things that basically guarantee that no matter where you start, you won't finish in poverty. And those two things alone are once again directly tied back into creating a stable home, a stable family. The two most basic things, you would think even those things have been distorted, eroded, corroded, whatever, but would both be so much more easy to accomplish and solve if there was still some sort of idea of creating an ideal family and home? [00:50:54] Speaker A: Well, and where they talk about, we warn that the disintegration of the family, that not following this, will lead to the calamities prophesied upon communities, nations, individuals. And taking a community for an example, if you have a community where, say, you have one or two broken homes, and it talks about being able to have extended family available to support with children, if you have one or two broken homes and those kids have a support system to rely on in the community, somebody in the neighborhood who's watching out for them, who's taking the extra effort to go take them to a game or show them an example or extended family that's willing to step in and help absorb the impact of that broken home, it's not nearly as noticeable. You don't have a problem. But if you go to a community where the entire community is a broken home and you don't have enough resources there to absorb that impact, you don't have extended family or neighbors that are there to help the kids grow up in a way that's responsible, that's teaching them loving and nourishing and teaching them how to be successful and giving them the best shot at accomplishing their dreams, their hopes, or whatever the case may be. And you look at these communities where the family is destroyed throughout the entire community, and you see the devastation. You see high crime rates, you see gangs, you see murder, you see the destructions that have been prophesied. As a society, we can do things to help each other. We can do Things to reach out. We can do things to support each other. But if we destroy that structure, that foundation, that hope in enough places, we erode the whole thing. Then we lose our ability to take care of ourselves, and we descend into chaos. [00:53:15] Speaker B: Totally agree. [00:53:18] Speaker A: And living at the times that we live in and the things that we're seeing, if there is anything that we can do to repent, to turn to God, to find stability in society today, in my mind, it's strive for a family, Strive to instill that family value. And to Nate's point, I absolutely am not going to be critical of any individual's situation, what they're living through. An ideal for somebody might be very different than what's ideal for me, and especially in a situation where there's abuse. Ideal for you is to not be in an abusive relationship. You don't need to put up with that. You shouldn't be there. That family is already broken by somebody who's not doing what they're supposed to be doing. But as a whole, if we can strive for protecting the family, for valuing the family, for teaching our children that this is what is best, if you can reach it and keeping that fulcrum at the center of the board, then we see the balance in the world that we wish we had, the stability, the ability that kids have to exceed where we're at, to learn to go further, to do better, to give them the best kind of support system, to accomplish the best them, for what it's worth. [00:54:58] Speaker B: Agreed. [00:54:59] Speaker A: All right. Is there anything in that family proclamation of the world that you wanted to talk about, Nate? [00:55:03] Speaker B: No, I think that that's good. And we are. We're kind of. We're kind of at it with time, so let's. Yeah, let's wrap it up. [00:55:10] Speaker A: All right. [00:55:11] Speaker B: Well, what are we talking about next week, Chris? Christmas. [00:55:13] Speaker A: Merry Christmas. [00:55:15] Speaker B: Merry Christmas. Is next week. All right, until next week, then. See you. [00:55:18] Speaker A: See you.