Mosiah 11 - 17

May 13, 2024 01:12:48
Mosiah 11 - 17
Weekly Deep Dive: A Come Follow Me Podcast
Mosiah 11 - 17

May 13 2024 | 01:12:48

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Show Notes

Noah vs Benjamin. Abinadi. Both KingsThe father cast down. Abinadi as a type of Christ.
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Episode Transcript

[00:00:15] Speaker A: Welcome to the weekly Deep Dive podcast on the add on Education network. The podcast where we take a look at the weekly come follow me discussions and try to add a little insight and unique perspective. That was a hot intro, huh? [00:00:28] Speaker B: That's fine. I forgot to bring down the music. You just gotta talk over the music a little bit. [00:00:37] Speaker A: You just gotta talk a little louder. [00:00:39] Speaker B: No, dude, whatever. I'll fix it. I'll fix it. When we edit, people are being like, what are they freaking out? But I left the music running a little bit longer. [00:00:46] Speaker A: I am your host, Jason Lloyd, here in the studio. [00:00:49] Speaker B: This show's terrible producer, apparently make the grape piper. I'm just blowing it on the music side of this. Come on, man. This is my bad, dude. I might just let it ride throughout this whole thing, dude. The music might still be playing when. When people here listen back to this. What's up, buddy? [00:01:04] Speaker A: Dude, it's good to be back here a few days later. [00:01:07] Speaker B: A few days. I know. Hey, we got it up last week. We still posted it, so it's all. [00:01:13] Speaker A: Got it still there. We're glad that you guys are here listening. If you haven't had a chance to listen to our episode last week. It's kind of a shorter one, easier to kind of get through. Go ahead and give it a listen if you got a minute. Fun talking. As we were going through Mosiah. We're still in Mosiah. Today we get to talk about Noah and Abinadi. [00:01:40] Speaker B: So good. [00:01:41] Speaker A: Yes, this is. This is good. These are. It's chapters eleven through 17. So it's a thicker, heavier, longer reading than what we've been doing. So it changes up a little bit, but it's worth it. I appreciate Abinadi's ability to understand and apply Isaiah. And it's funny because I said that about Jacob, I said that about Nephi. Right? I don't know. You get a lot of that. The Book of Mormon prophets really have a firm grasp on Isaiah. And I think it's in part because Isaiah was right before their time. It's like saying that we had a firm understanding of what President Hinckley was saying. It's a great prophet that lived for a long time. Well, I guess not quite, because Isaiah was still a little bit before them. George Washington. It's like saying that we had an appreciation for George Washington, except for they live closer to George Washington than. I'm sorry, they live closer to Isaiah than we live to George Washington. [00:02:50] Speaker B: Do you think this is. It's worth mentioning how if Joseph Smith was making up the Book of Mormon as he was going, he would have had to have some pretty intense opinions and thoughts on what Isaiah was saying from multiple points of view, because these different prophets aren't just repeating the same things over and over through Isaiah. They're pulling different meanings and things from the various Isaiah teachings. Just saying, like, if you were making it up, Joseph Smith, good job on having very, really intense understandings of Isaiah from multiple points of views and perspectives. [00:03:43] Speaker A: Yeah, that's a really good point. And we're going to get to, we're actually going to hit on some of that a little bit harder, too, when we talk about Abinadi and what he's saying. How would Joseph Smith come up with what we're going to talk about tonight? [00:03:58] Speaker B: I want to reveal, even like, the allegories and stuff too, of those things. Just like, oh, man. Like, maybe he was just a super genius. [00:04:06] Speaker A: Let me ask you something before we get started, all right? I like this. We're gonna want it. [00:04:10] Speaker B: Okay. [00:04:11] Speaker A: Do you have, do you have Gen Z Broseph Smith? [00:04:14] Speaker B: You know I do. [00:04:16] Speaker A: Okay, we can, we can bring that up in a bit. But I am curious to how some of these verses read. [00:04:25] Speaker B: Well, I can tell you how. I can tell you already. Oh, but we're not to chapter 27 yet tonight, are we? No, because I can read you. I can read you. I can read you how it is when Alma the younger gets struck by an angel. Chapter 27, verse 17 in the bros of Smith Book of Mormon for Gen z unofficial chat GPT translation. That's it. Yo. Those were the last words the angel spoke and he bounced. Alma and his squad were shook like shooketh to the core. It sounds like a reading from Bill and Ted's excellent adventure. Chat GPT thinks that we speak like Bill and Ted's excellent adventure. [00:05:12] Speaker A: I'm I'm, I'm wondering. I'm wondering how chat GPT describes a Benidais death. It's Mosiah 17, and maybe I'm reading at the end before the beginning, but I'm on it. [00:05:26] Speaker B: I'm looking it up. What verse? [00:05:28] Speaker A: It's chapter 17, verses 1213 14. [00:05:35] Speaker B: Oh, no, this is good. [00:05:36] Speaker A: Okay, let's hear it. [00:05:38] Speaker B: Chat GPT. So then the holy dudes started to freak out on him and threw some major shade his way, talking about how he dissed the king. Oh, my gosh. And then the king got hella mad and gave up to, and then gave him up to get whacked. So they grabbed him, tied him up, whipped him until he died. When the fire started burning him. He cried out to them, look, because you did this to me, your children will make your people suffer. Just. Oh, see, now is when it gets real. Your people will suffer just like I did. Even the pain of death by fire, this will happen because they believed in lord the God. There you go. And then he just quotes him. Wow. Abinadi. Abinadi. Dude, these verses in chat GPT unofficial translation for Gen Z went hard, man. Now we're talking. That's incredible. [00:06:35] Speaker A: All right, thanks for looking that up for me. [00:06:37] Speaker B: On that note. [00:06:41] Speaker A: All right, let's go back to Noah. I do want to set the stage a little bit. They talk about Noah quite a bit, and I think something that we talked about in our last week's episode was Zenith, to me, comes across very. What's the way we put this, Nate? He's maybe a little bit self absorbed, or he kind of thinks highly of himself. It's the impression that I get. I could be wrong. I could be misreading this. Something that I pointed out when we were reading in Mosiah, chapter eight, is how often he takes credit for what he does. I armed the people. I taught them to do this. I recreated it. I had the women do this. I had the men do that. And then he even says that I even I, in my old age, lifted up the sword and, like, saved my people single handedly. I did. It all is kind of the impression I get when I'm reading this. And if I'm reading this wrong, feel free to. I'll feel you. Feel free to let me know. It just feels that way a little bit to me. And he sets himself off being very important. Eye Zenith having been taught in the language of my fathers, which is the pattern that we see with Enos, with Jacob, with Nephi. Right? He's kind of quoting the same thing and taking on that same line. He's creating his own dynasty, his own new Nephi, his own new beginning. But the thing that maybe casts a little bit of shadow on this is the fight that happens at the beginning before they get into the land of Nephi, when they're out scouting it out, and the other guy wants to slay the lamanites, and he sees all the value and how good the people are, and so he wants to save them. And he goes to fight with the rest of the companion, the group, over what their decision is going to be. He here's the deal. We don't get the other side story of what happened. We have to take Zenith for his word at what happened? And if you're saying that the whole reason I killed everybody in my party was so that we would spare the lives of these lamanites that are our enemies, you're like, wait a second. You were willing to kill everybody in your group to try to save these people that were your enemies? Something's not checking quite right for me on that. And so when we get to Noah, and here we have a guy that's extremely self absorbed. It's just one more thing. It's one more weight in the scales, one more weight in the balance. And I don't want to be too critical and too judgmental, but it feels like that's the pattern. That's where we're headed. It just kind of reads that way as I'm reading this. And now we get to Noah, but the record, if you've noticed, and zenith's taking this all firsthand. I am doing this. And it's kind of interesting. We shift into a third hand when it's like. And now let's talk about Noah. And it says that Noah had departed from the ways of his father. His father was righteous, but Noah wasn't. And in fact, Noah kind of cleans the sheet a little bit. The sheet, the slate, maybe, is what I'm looking for. He fires all of the priests that were his dad's priests and creates a whole new priesthood and all of his people. Right? [00:10:11] Speaker B: Yeah, I was going to wonder. This was one of the questions I was going to ask you is how legitimate was the priesthood of Noah's priests? [00:10:19] Speaker A: It's a good question. I mean, he's hand picking them. It is the king's responsibility to do that. So, in one sense, maybe it's right. And this line of priesthood that came with Zenith we get from Omni was actually Jacob's line. Right? The last guy to be writing says that his brother went up and so he didn't have family to give the plates to because his family went with Zenith to go reclaim that land. Whether or not he was on the side that got slaughtered because they wanted to go to war with the Lamanites or he was on Zenith's side, I don't know. But it could be likely that that priesthood line continued through there in Zenith's group. And then. [00:11:05] Speaker B: Yeah, the only reason I was gonna ask, and again like that, I don't wanna derail where you're going, but there is something so interesting to me as when I read this stuff as a kid, because they were wicked, I always just assumed, like, well, then, amen. To the priesthood of that man. You know, like, I just. Simply for the fact that it's like, well, if they're wicked, then these must have been, like, false priests. They probably didn't have any actual authority. But then when Alma leaves, he's out baptizing dudes, you know what I mean? So I'm just like, oh, oh. You know what I mean? I guess I'm just wondering where authority kind of could have been given or not. And is it the wickedness? Because as we believe, the power that we have in our church in the priesthood resides, like, hand in hand with the righteousness of the person performing their duties through the priesthood. But I guess it doesn't mean that they. I don't know. You see what I mean? Do you see where my question is? [00:12:15] Speaker A: And it's interesting to kind of feed into those same lines. It was the responsibility of the king to set apart the high priest to. [00:12:24] Speaker B: So did Noah have the priesthood? [00:12:26] Speaker A: And it's not that the king even necessarily had the priesthood. So, for example, let's look at some biblical examples of this. Moses does not descend from Aaron, yet he sets apart Aaron as the high priest. Moses isn't a high priest. Moses doesn't have the aaronic priesthood levitical. He has Melchizedek from Jethro is what we're assuming, right? Yes, but his job is to set apart the high priest. And he does it. But Moses is doing it as their king, their ruler. And he's setting apart the priest not as his priesthood responsibility, but his responsibility as the king. Fast forward to New Testament times. Who set apart the high priest that crucified Christ? Pontius Pilate. It was the responsibility of the governor, the ruler, to set apart the high priest. So the Roman Pontius Pilate is the one that put caiaphas in that position. It comes from the ruling authority to set apart priests, to put people in there. And that was kind of a rub. And that kind of put Pilate in an odd position because he was trying to gain favor with the Jews. And it's just an interesting dynamic. But the king's responsibility is to set. [00:13:46] Speaker B: Apart priests in the same way we set people apart. Like hands on head. [00:13:51] Speaker A: That's a good question. And at the same time, we see the opposite, because who set apart Saul to be a king? Was it not the priest? [00:14:00] Speaker B: Yes. [00:14:01] Speaker A: Who set apart David to be the king? Was it not the prophets, the religious leader? Yeah. Those two have a very interesting dynamic. And you see, when the priesthood line ends with Jacob's line, he takes the records and the responsibility and gives it to Benjamin or Mosiah, whoever's the king at the time. And then they have to go and set apart new priests. Noah's got this responsibility. He sets apart new priests, and then when they all get back together, they're going to set apart new priests even again. But it's interesting, kind of that dynamic. Who chooses who? It's almost a chicken and the egg question, because half the time in the Bible, it's the priest or the prophet that's anointing the king and giving him his power, because the king receives his power to rule or his right to rule from God. But the king represents God here on earth, and he's setting apart priests under his authority from God to. To be able to, to consecrate priests and set him apart to be able to do it. So it's. It's an interesting dynamic. Yeah. [00:15:01] Speaker B: With, with how detailed and obsessed I feel like in hebrew culture they are, with where your lineage comes from, where your priesthood comes from. And we have very much the same feelings, I feel like, in our church, where it's not unheard of when you get the priesthood, to have somebody in your family very kindly make you like, oh, hey, here's where you can track your priesthood lineage back to Joseph Smith. Right. All the way back up the chain. Because we believe that the way that the priesthood is passed on is by the laying on of hands by somebody who has the priesthood. [00:15:44] Speaker A: It's got to be this unbreakable chain. [00:15:46] Speaker B: So I think that this is where I get confused with this. And maybe we just have, we don't have enough information to know, you know, where the priesthood line of begatting, you know, starts and ends with some of these people. But this is why I think I'm still always a little bit kind of confused about some of this is because you're like, yeah, Noah's a gnarly dude, but if he had the priesthood at least enough to where he could be giving it to other people in the way that at least we do, which is laying on of hands by somebody who has the authority, then it would make sense how Alma could leave, repent and start performing priesthood ordinances. [00:16:33] Speaker A: Well, we look at it, who set apart Jacob in the book of Mormon, as far as the priesthood line? That Jacob was going to be this high priest officiating and he was going to be over the teaching and his line, who set all of that into motion. Right. And it's Nephi. Nephi, who's their first ruler or their first king. ZeniF but he would have had the. [00:16:52] Speaker B: Priesthood, I'm sure, through his dad. Right, right. I would think. I don't know. [00:16:58] Speaker A: It's almost like you get this new order, this new society. [00:17:01] Speaker B: I mean, is this is the laying on of hands thing. Do you feel like it's something that's ancient or do you feel like that this is just the way that we do it now? [00:17:10] Speaker A: No, I feel like it's ancient. [00:17:12] Speaker B: Therefore, this is where my questions come in. [00:17:15] Speaker A: But you get right at that beginning family with Lehi, you have this separation of roles and responsibilities. Nephi is going to be the protector, the ruler, and he's going to have Jacob be the priest. In fact, he's even telling Jacob what to talk about to the people. Go and tell him these words. Teach him about Isaiah. And you have this priest king relationship which is not far off from what they had in ancient Israel because you did have the kings, you have this king list, but you also had these prophets. [00:17:45] Speaker B: Yes. So I guess I'm just saying, do we still think, though, that if they were doing ordinances under priesthood authority, if they were administering ordinances under priesthood authority, they still would have had somebody have to put their hands on their head that had the priesthood or were from the line of Levi or whatever? [00:18:09] Speaker A: I would think so. I would think so. [00:18:11] Speaker B: I would think so too. And I think that this is kind of where I may have been just not putting all of the pieces together when I probably wasn't thinking through it super deep in younger years, which is just because Noah was a gnarly dude doesn't mean that he may have not had somebody give him the priesthood, you know what I mean? As part of something like that. It's like he could have very well had priesthood given to him by the laying on of hands by somebody in authority and just unfortunately chosen to be a gnarly dude. But even now, we have plenty of people on this earth that have been given the priesthood by the proper authority through the, and have gone to live a life and make heinous choices. It doesn't mean that they weren't given the priesthood in the correct way. It might mean that they have zero power to be officiating in the priesthood or to have power in that priesthood through righteousness and whatnot. You see where I'm going with this? But it doesn't mean, it doesn't mean that they weren't ordained correctly and therefore, had they ordained other people correctly that those things were negated, you know, so. [00:19:31] Speaker A: And I feel, I feel like they're hitting the reset clock, Zenith is, in his mind, becoming the new Nephi. You see it when he says, I Zenif, having been taught in all the language of, and he's taught, he's proud of his lineage. He comes from Nephi, right? And the idea that he's going back to the land, he doesn't just go back to the land that they had and try to reestablish it and reconnect with those roots. But he also builds a temple. And so here you have a new guy, new priest, new temple, like a new. He's trying really hard to create a new beginning to the Book of Mormon, if you will. It's like a, just like Noah is a repeat of Adam and Eve. You've got this kind of, this new Genesis, this new beginning. And in a sense, it almost becomes validated when they send out the 43 scouts, or however many they are, to try to find the land as Arahamla. And all they find is that everyone's dead. They're like, oh, we're the only ones that are still alive. This is the new Nephites. We are. In today's world, communication is global and it's interlinked. And we have one prophet and twelve apostles and one church that spans the globe, because we have the capability to communicate, to connect, to maintain one fold and one shepherd that they didn't have back in those days. When you look at it, Jethro has the priesthood, Melchizedek has the priesthood, Abraham has the priesthood, Moses has the priesthood. These different people, groups, families exist in these patriarchal orders where the church is almost a new beginning each time Lehi splits off, and it's a new dispensation for his family. It's not uncommon, given the world that they're coming from, because they don't have this extensive communication. [00:21:22] Speaker B: And to be fair, too, we believe Joseph Smith got the priesthood from angels. Right? So I'm just saying it wouldn't be. It's not the farthest, you know what I mean? [00:21:33] Speaker A: I mean, look at John the Baptist, who's all of a sudden preaching in the wilderness. [00:21:37] Speaker B: This is my point, where it's come. [00:21:38] Speaker A: From and all these prophets that are coming out of the woodworks and bringing in. And so I think even if it's not from a priesthood standpoint, it's definitely from a king standpoint. I am God's representative here on earth as king. And as king, it is my right to anoint priests and to give them that priesthood. [00:21:58] Speaker B: And we can assume that if we have prophets or priests or whoever breaking off and baptizing and doing things. We can assume that somewhere on the line, maybe even in the same way Joseph Smith got the priesthood, is that you maybe have heavenly messengers come down and anoint this person with what they need to be or set apart and give them whatever authority they need to, to be performing these things legitimately. [00:22:27] Speaker A: And it creates an interesting question on authority, you know? Cause we're gonna get into that. Where does Alma the younger get his authority to baptize? And it's interesting that he's baptizing himself at the same time that he's baptizing his first convert, right? And it's almost like he's getting this authority, right. It's almost sounding like a Joseph Smith new dispensation type deal. But it also makes me ask the question, where does Abinadi come from? And it's not unheard of in the Old Testament to have prophets that came out as being shepherd prophets, that all of a sudden the Lord spoke to them and they had to go in and do and preach. And so Abinadi could be something like this where he didn't have anything planned. He was out listening, and the lord called him and asked him to come do something where he doesn't necessarily have priesthood, but he's called from the Lord to do this work. Or because Noah cut off the entire line of priests that existed from his dad, perhaps Abinadi was one of those priests that came from Jacob's line that was cut off by Noah. And so when he is coming and challenging, Noah feels threatened, knowing that he has a claim to the priesthood, that he was a priest that he does have. Now all of a sudden, this is somebody that we can't take lightly, we can't just ignore. He's got a legitimate claim which could end up leading the people to following him. We've got to deal with this and execute him. So it makes me wonder a little bit about where Binedi comes from. [00:23:56] Speaker B: Yeah, and that's a fantastic point. And then I think my last thought would be, was there any other freeburg picture cooler than a Benidi? And like, the leopards in, and like the priest, like, falling over the little bench that they're sitting on? And Noah, gnarly and frumpy and gross, schlunked back in his chair on his throne. Was there any other cooler book of Mormon picture than a Benidai standing up there? [00:24:28] Speaker A: Probably not. I'm glad you brought that up. Because the boat one was cool. [00:24:32] Speaker B: Nephi on the boat one was cool. The stripling warriors. [00:24:34] Speaker A: Ammon. [00:24:36] Speaker B: Okay. [00:24:36] Speaker A: Ammon's great moroni with all the title of liberty. [00:24:39] Speaker B: Okay, that's what I'm saying. The title of liberty looked radio. [00:24:42] Speaker A: But this one had, like, leopards or cheetahs or something, man, it was awesome. [00:24:45] Speaker B: With the chains and the goblet, with the vine. [00:24:48] Speaker A: It was so good. [00:24:50] Speaker B: Like, like this is. I know we've brought it up so much about how art sometimes incorrectly influences, you know, the way that we view doctrine and. But all I know is that, like, during my childhood, during a boring sacrament meeting, when you're just kind of checking out those pictures, man, the Ebenadi one was so good. Details on it. Beautiful. Just incredible art. [00:25:15] Speaker A: I'm so glad you brought this up because I want to ask the question, how old was a binai? [00:25:18] Speaker B: Okay. And when you just. So what you just said is interesting because this is how sometimes art can really screw with the way that we picture things. Because. Because Freeberg, in theory, I think that's his name, right? I'm not blowing up. Freiburg had to make an artistic decision, and I don't think he was LDS. Like, I think that. I think that he, in his decision, probably saw this cool og dude. And it's funny when you're like, oh, well, maybe this was a priest that was cast out. Like, maybe this was an original priest that was replaced or whatever. It's very easy to think our mental image immediately goes to old dude, saggy skin, but, you know, still pretty jacked because he's been out, you know, trying to survive during this time period. So the answer is, I don't know. But according to the picture, he's very old. [00:26:16] Speaker A: Yes, very old. But I don't think there's any indication of his age in the scriptures, in the Book of Mormon. I mean, we're just. I think we think of a Benidi and we think of an old guy because. [00:26:28] Speaker B: Because of how rad that picture was. [00:26:30] Speaker A: Because of that picture. But I don't think there's any evidence to suggest that he was old. Maybe if he was one of the original priests, he could have been older, or if he was a descendant of one of the original priests, he could be younger. [00:26:42] Speaker B: Yeah, you're right. [00:26:44] Speaker A: And I don't know if we try to look at clues and it's hard to do this, it's hard to do this. But as Spitfire as he is and saying, hey, this is the. I mean, is, to me, there's almost some energy, some youthfulness in the way that he's not ashamed, that he's just going to lay that out, or. But there's also some wisdom with how he's doing this, because he understands Isaiah the way that maybe a young person. [00:27:13] Speaker B: Wouldn'T and the fact that he's so willing to be like, hey, I'm dying anyways, man. I'm going out in a freaking blaze of glory. [00:27:20] Speaker A: Sometimes a grumpy old man has no problem, no qualms. Just laying it out. [00:27:23] Speaker B: That's what I mean. It's like there's almost a. Not recklessness, but an almost a. I don't. I know what, in theory, this is going to lead to, and it's fine. I've lived my life. We're going out and we're going out guns a blazing, baby. [00:27:40] Speaker A: Remind me before we're done with this episode to talk about what a binai means, because I think he's got one of the coolest names. Great. But I almost want to switch into Noah for a second. [00:27:50] Speaker B: Okay, let's do it. [00:27:51] Speaker A: And then we'll dive back into a binary. [00:27:53] Speaker B: Noah's a confusing thing. Because when. Because you even just said Noah, too, referring to the man that built the ark, and you referred to as, like, oh, yeah. Noah was like a reset of Adam and Eve. And I was just like. It took me a second because I was like, oh, crap. We got to always remember that there's two very prominent noahs in our vernacular, and they're very different people. [00:28:15] Speaker A: Very different people. And I think it's fascinating that Noah is the second king. Zenith is the first one who leaves during Mosiah's time. So Noah would correspond with benjamin. And I find that contrast just super amazing because Benjamin is going out of his way talking about how I labored with my own hands, and I have never taken a dime for you for my own support. Noah is the opposite extreme. Not only have I not labored for myself, he's taxing them into the dirt. And we look at it one fifth, right? That's what, 20%? It's not a super high tax. [00:29:01] Speaker B: I think it's a super high tax. Don't tread on me, dog. Hashtag. [00:29:08] Speaker A: And I guess there's a difference between what our government does with their money today versus what in the world are you doing? What kind of infrastructure you're not providing? Roads and Internet. I don't know. We can get in all sorts of weird, different conversations. I'm not going to take this into modern, but in that time, a fifth of everything to not just make sure that he was living okay. He's living extravagant and not only is he saying that. [00:29:36] Speaker B: I saw those cheetahs. [00:29:37] Speaker A: Yeah. Not only is he saying that he's living extravagantly, but all of his priests are living extravagant. [00:29:44] Speaker B: He's keeping them. [00:29:46] Speaker A: And they go into detail on this to say that they make breastworks so that the priest could just lay on them while they're teaching the people. That's pretty lazy, right? Like, who delivers a sermon laying down on something to support your weight so you can just kind of lay and just kind of talk to people. [00:30:06] Speaker B: I'm going to try that next week when I teach my Sunday school class. [00:30:09] Speaker A: When you give your talk. [00:30:10] Speaker B: Oh, my gosh. [00:30:11] Speaker A: In sacrament, and you got the pulpit, there's just kind of lay on top of the pulpit. [00:30:16] Speaker B: Drape myself over the pulpit. [00:30:17] Speaker A: Just. Just ask if you can get one of those mics that you can hold instead of. I have one comes out of that. Right? [00:30:21] Speaker B: I don't even. [00:30:22] Speaker A: Dude, I'll just lay your head down on there and just, like, have the mic next to your mouth. [00:30:26] Speaker B: Can you, like, you know, it is funny. [00:30:28] Speaker A: You dribble those words out. [00:30:29] Speaker B: It's funny to say that. I do think about, like, you know, I think that they actually say it is probably a sign that you're crazy. But there are times where even, like, during fast and testimony meeting during open mic, I think to myself, like, I wonder what would happen if, like, I just went up there and, you know, said this, you know, and then. And then my body starts getting weird anxiety thinking about it. But then I'm like, man, that's crazy that me just thinking about something gives me, like, open mic's a rough day for me, usually in the first place. And so this is where my brain goes. But it is funny you say, like, hey, you should try this. Because immediately when you said that, I thought to myself that. And I immediately just felt the most gnarly anxiety in my stomach scene. Like, oh, man, how uncomfortable that would be for everybody. I mean, I wonder if that would finally be something where, like, the bishop would be like, all right, bro, you gotta. You're gonna have to go sit down. [00:31:22] Speaker A: Well, and the point that they're making on this is not only are they making these breastworks, that they can just lay and speak from the most comfortable position possible at the expense of everyone, by the way, who are paying to make that breastwork for them to be there, but that they make them out of pure gold, not that they're gold foiling it. Cause gold has an extremely malleable. You can spread it all thin and wrap it and whatever. But the fact that they're making it out of pure gold so that they can just lay there at their comfort, at the expense of the people they're teaching, this is as about far and extreme as you can get from Benjamin's message. And I just wanted to point that out. Noah and Benjamin are kings at the same time and they're both going to go through very similar circumstances. The Lamanites are going to come in and Noah is going to lose his kingdom. The Lamanites are then going to go into Benjamin's territory and Zarahemla is going to fall and the land of all of their inheritance. Both kings lose their territory, both kings lose it. But Noah, not endeared by his people, is going to be burned to death at the stake. Benjamin is going to rally the people, deliver them, and all of them are going to love him forever because of it. He is going to be this great king in glory. And so I find it interesting how we're taking these two different approaches. And I can't help but try to think of God's plan versus Satan's plan in the beginning. In Noah's sense, I am going to make everybody contribute. I am going to tax everyone and make sure that they're all good because their money is going to support the priests, the preaching, the gold works, that they can make sure that they hear this like I am going to almost in a sense, enslave everybody through this burden that he's putting on them to make sure that they're saved. Where King Benjamin, on the other hand, not exacting that he's letting people decide what they're going to do. He's giving them their agency and encouraging them to serve, encouraging them to do this. And yet both of them are going to have to deal with death and defeat. It doesn't matter in either case, both roads. It's not like King Benjamin was spared the Lamanites killing him and taking him out of Zarahemla where Noah didn't. Bad things happen to both of them. It's not the point. The point is how do they deal with it and being able to overcome that and whatnot. Death was the plan. In Satan's plan and Christ's plan, we have to learn how to deal with defeat. We have to learn how to deal with the fall. Even with Christ's plan, we are not spared death. We're able to overcome it, but we're not spared it. So I think that now let's get to a binadai's name. This one has some kind of ideas, thoughts, and avi av in Hebrew, it's very common. It's father, my father or the father. And when we get to Nadai, Nadi, Nada in Akkadian, so we can go back into some roots and look at this word, it does show up several times, and it means cast out, cast down or thrown. And so some people look at it and say, oh, well, it's cast out. And in a sense, to be thrown into the presence or in the presence of the father. I don't think so. I don't like that interpretation. When I look at a binadai's name, I think it's the father who is cast down or sent down. And I think it's talking about Abinadi refers to Christ as the father, and he says that the father will come to earth and die for our sins and save us. And so for Abinadi talking about the father coming to be able to offer us a new birth and be our father and the salvation, and we'll talk about that here in a minute. But looking at his name really hits a powerful chord for me in the father that was sent down, the father that was sent to earth for us. And why that hits so powerfully is because the root of that is thrown or cast. And it's almost like he's cast out. And I go back to, wait a second. In a sense, isn't Christ descending below all things? And he says, father, why hast thou forsaken me? And can you not look at it in a sense of him being cast out of heaven to come and do this awful thing, to be spit on by men, to be lower than the animals, in a sense, descending below everything? And isn't that the same words we can use to describe Satan, who was also cast out? And again, we get back to these differences between these two. And I find it interesting to your. [00:36:38] Speaker B: Point, but finished that thought, though, because like you just talked about with Noah and Benjamin, what's the end result with each, though? Because you bring up a great point. We use that same language then to refer to both Jesus and Satan. Right. If both are cast out, but then what's the eventual outcome? Right? Is that one still conquers to overcome. [00:37:05] Speaker A: All things in the end? [00:37:06] Speaker B: Yes. [00:37:07] Speaker A: And you see that with Benjamin overcoming, reestablishing the message. It's the deliverance and the salvation versus losing it all anyways. And the same thing, I think, would go back to the very first family here in the Book of Mormon, Lehi's family. You've got Nephi and Laman and Lemuel, both of them were cast out of Jerusalem. But for Nephi, it was to receive a land of promise, a new inheritance to be able to overcome, to save himself from the death that was waiting there. Where Laman and Lemuel, they were losing their first inheritance. They're going through the same steps, but for one, perspective wise, he's gaining everything out of it, where for the other, they're losing everything. But it's such similar parallel paths. So I like binance name, and I look at why a lot of the prophets have been killed. And I think it's easy to start with Christ. I think that one's an obvious one. He claimed to be God, which was true. He was God. But because he said he was God, he was killed for it. Because the idea that he's teaching that God would come from heaven and dwell on earth and take on flesh and be a normal person like anyone else is blasphemous. How could you disparage God like that? How could you talk about God, this divine being, in simple, crude, mortal terms? How could he be one of us, like us? And so they crucify him for that. That's the same reason why they sought to kill Lehi. Lehi says, and I did testify of their wickedness and abominations. And the Jews did mock him because of the things which they testified. They didn't care. They thought it was funny. They made fun of him for it. And when he testified of the coming of the messiah and the redemption of the world, then the Jews sought to take away his life. That's like when Christ says, before Abraham was, I am. Then they picked up the stones and said, wait, wait. [00:39:11] Speaker B: What did you just say? [00:39:13] Speaker A: That's the thing. When you start talking about God becoming a man, that has been the reason why prophets were slain in the Old Testament. That's why Nephi was not Nephi. I'm sorry. That's why, Lehi, they tried to kill him. And I think to some degree, that's why Abinadi gets burned at the stake, because he's going to teach those same ideas that God is going to. And I think his name is even suggesting it. God is coming down to the earth to be cast out, to be rejected, and. And yet he is going to overcome all things. And. And that's part of the contributing reasons to why he's going to be. That's why Noah isn't just going to execute him on the spot, because it could be a political execution. You're trying to get the people to insurrect against the king. You've got enough right there. But Noah takes him to the temple to have the priests try to, to make this a spiritual thing, a blasphemy thing. It's more than just him preaching an insurrection. This is about preaching about the coming of Christ, that God would come on earth and live. So why then, and I think some of the most confusing verses come out of Benidai's mouth, why is he saying that Christ is the father? Why is he saying that the father is going to come to earth? And I think we get the clearest picture of this when the priests start grilling him and asking him these questions. And they say, what does it mean in Isaiah? How beautiful upon the mountain are the feet of those who come to proclaim the gospel. And he's like, wait, you're preaching. You don't even understand these things. Here, let me lay it out for you. And what I love most about Abinadi is the way he takes aim at Isaiah 53. And Isaiah 53 is one of the most beautiful chapters in the entire Old Testament that I think focuses on that same idea, that God would become man. And that's where he's going to start reading this. Surely he hath borne our griefs and carried our sorrows. And how fitting is it that this lesson's fitting over our mother's day? Because you get this. You get this nature of God described in terms of a parent, and not even necessarily a father, but a mother. And when you say bear, he has borne our griefs. A synonym for to bear or to borne our griefs is to birth our griefs, right. And carried our sorrows. It's like he's carrying them around and buried them like childbearing and caring for these, carrying for these nine months, if you will. Right? It's putting them in these terms, and it's setting the stage. And it says, and like a sheep before her shearers is dumb. And if you don't have that outlined, circled, whatever, it's a small word, but it's an important detail. Her, why are you referring to Christ? And in this case, the God of this world as a female? Why are you not saying, oh, this male passover lamb, the firstborn before his shearer, is dumb? And it says her. And as we go down the line, right? And it says, who shall declare his generation? For he was cut off from the land of the living. There is no begadding with him because he dies. That's the end of his line. And it says, but it pleased the Lord to bruise him, to crush him. And then it starts talking about the travail of his soul and he'll be delivered. And so we're talking about travailing, laboring and delivery. Now it's not bearing and caring anymore, it's delivering. And the delivering is his seed. And Abinadi describes this so well, he's quoting it, but then he's going to say, well, wait a second, he's cut off from the land of living, didn't see any of his seed. Now he shall see his seed. When you make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed and be justified. He shall feel peace. And he says, who are his seed? He was cut off from the land of living. He didn't have any seed here on earth. Those. And Abinadius describes it, the prophets, those that listen to the prophets, those that follow God, make his soul an offering for sin and are atoned. Is that not the first covenant that God made with Adam as they left the garden of Eden? I will cover your nakedness there. I will sacrifice and clothe you if you follow me. The same covenant that he made with Abraham. I will come and pay the price of sins. I will go between these pieces of meat. I will be torn and bruised and broken to cover you and pay the cost of disobedience for your seed. It's the same covenant that he's been making all these times. But Abinadi captures that moment and says, when you make his soul an offering for your sin, that's the terms of the agreement, the covenant. You can now become his offspring and he is the father. He has birthed you. He has given this. He's almost, in a sense, the father and the mother as they've been describing these roles. But in that sense, Christ becomes the father. He gave his life to the church, and the church is able to offer baptism so that we can be born again. Why does the church have that right? Why does the church have that priesthood, that authority? Because God gave it to them. And it takes those two to be able to birth new parents. And so he is the father in that sense. He is the son and that he came being subject to the will of the father, doing what the father wanted, saying, not my will, but thy will, but he is the father. And being able to provide us with this new life, this new birth. And so for Binadi, it is our father, the creator of the world, who is also Jesus Christ, who came here to play that role and to save us all. And that's where Binedi is testifying. [00:45:21] Speaker B: Yeah, Ben and nails it. [00:45:23] Speaker A: He's so good. And, you know, I'm kind of fast forwarding through some of these Isaiah chapters. Maybe we should just take a slow pause and go back to where he first starts preaching. Just to kind of go back to something you were saying earlier about how could Joseph Smith have gotten this right? [00:45:42] Speaker B: Oh, I thought you were going to say about the leopards in the picture. Something I was saying earlier. I was like, come on, man, please explain the leopards. [00:45:53] Speaker A: Here's what I want to go to. This is chapter twelve, and this is verse one. And it came to pass that after the space of two years, that Abinadi came among them in disguise. So Abedi first came out and said, you guys need to repent. They ran him out. The king was going to kill him. And so he lays low. And something I don't know that I've ever really considered is that length of time that he laid low for like two whole years of laying low. That's a significant amount of time. And then the Lord says it's time to go back. And that's something I think that's always kind of struck us as funny. You show up in disguise and say, I Abinadi, this is like, wait, what? [00:46:35] Speaker B: You're like, it's a crappy disguise. [00:46:38] Speaker A: Abinidai, I don't know if it was the disguise just to get you to the point where you could say that. [00:46:43] Speaker B: That's amazing. It would have been better had he gone back and go, I shmenidbidai. [00:46:50] Speaker A: That would have been amazing. [00:46:53] Speaker B: That would have been rad if he would have tried to disguise his name too well. [00:46:59] Speaker A: Here's where I think Joseph Smith shows. Well, should I say Joseph Smith shows? I think it shows more wisdom than maybe what Joseph Smith would have had available to himself at the time if he were to be writing this book. It says that he shows up so still in verse one. Thus the Lord commanded me, saying, abinadi, go and prophesy unto this people, for they have hardened their hearts against me, and they have repented of the evil. Therefore, excuse me, they have repented not of their evil doings. Therefore, I will visit them in my anger, yea, and my fierce anger, I will visit them, their iniquities and abominations. Now here we go, verse two. Yea, and woe unto this generation. And the Lord said unto me, stretch forth thy hand and prophesy. Why not just go prophesy? What's the significance of stretch forth thy hand and prophesy. And where do we get that? Where the Lord says, stretch forth your hand. It's kind of an interesting action. And why does he want a binai to stretch forth his hand? And so when we look at what the message is, I just wanna highlight a few words of this. When he's stretching forth his hand, let's go. Verse two. And it shall be brought to them in bondage. And they shall be smitten on the cheek, and they shall be driven, and they shall be slain. Verse three. I'm just going to highlight some of these verbs. It shall come to pass that the life of the king Noah shall not be valued. Let's keep going. Verse four. And I will smite this people with the sore affliction, yea, and with famine and pestilence, I will cause that they shall howl all the day long. And verse five. And I will cause that they shall have burdens lashed upon their backs. And they shall be driven before like a dumb ass. Verse six. It shall come to pass that I will send forth hell among them, and it shall smite them. And they shall be smitten with the east wind. Verse seven. And they shall be smitten with great pestilence. And I will do all this because of their wickedness and abominations. And we keep going, how many times does the word smite and driven show up? And the verse that this reminds me is, for all of this, his anger is not turned away, but his hand is stretched forth still. And we think about that, oh, the Lord's holding out his hand to try to help us, right? But his anger is not turned away. The hand that stretched out is the hand of smiting. And so as he's stretching his hand out, he's talking about them being smitten. And the Lord's going to smite you and smite you and smite you. And that's the message. And so that little detail talking about how the Lord didn't want him just to deliver this prophecy, but to do it with an outstretched hand. For all of this, his anger is not turned away, but his hand is stretched out still. I don't think, I don't know that Joseph Smith even caught what he was writing or understood what he was saying. And the significance and the impact of putting that together with that speech. [00:50:03] Speaker B: I mean, if he was making it up, he would have had to have been massively lucky to have that correlate so perfectly with kind of an obscure, you know, ot detail there, you know? [00:50:15] Speaker A: And here's where it gets beautiful, right? Because doesn't the Lord use his hand to save us? And, I mean, it's so easy for us to look at that verse for all this, his hand is not turned away to think of, oh, if we could just grab his hand, he'll save us. We want to hold on to that. And it might not fit the context of what's being said, but fast forward to the end of Mosiah's speech, and I find Benadai's speech. Yeah, sorry, did I say Mosiah? [00:50:45] Speaker B: Yeah, it's okay. [00:50:46] Speaker A: I'm sorry. I'm in a Mosiah reading of Benidi. This is chapter 16, verse one. And now it came to pass that after Ben and I had spoken these words, he stretched forth his hand and said, so now he's stretching forth his hand again. But this time, he says, the time shall come when they shall see the salvation of the Lord and every nation, kindred tongue, and people shall see the eye to eye and confess to the Lord. And then he just goes on and on about the resurrection, the salvation, the power of God to save. Verse eight. But there shall be a resurrection. Therefore, the grave hath no victory, and the sting of death is swallowed up in Christ. He is the light and the life of the world. And so he's stretching forth his hand again, but this time it's the hand that saves. And I think there's some power symbolism, some powerful symbolism in that as well, that so often the hand that smites is the hand that saves. We come into this thinking that because we're following the Lord, we're going to be spared. But look at Benjamin. His people still were defeated by the Lamanites. And look at the two plans in Christ's plan. We still have to suffer death and disease and tribulation. It doesn't mean that God is going to spare us of everything. But the hand that smites is also the hand that will save us, that will lift us up, that will exalt us and bring us back to him. [00:52:22] Speaker B: It's awesome. I mean, do you need to know what the book of Mormon for Gen Z, an official chat GPT translation for Gen Z by Brosa Smith, has to say about chapter 16, verse one. Let's hear it, yo. Obviously, after a Benidi dropped those bars, he stretched out his hand and said that one day everyone's gonna see God's salvation. Every nation, tribe, language, and people will be on the same page and admit that God's decisions are legit. Right you are. Chat. [00:52:57] Speaker A: GPT see, even Chat GPT left out the detail of stretching out the hand, didn't they? [00:53:02] Speaker B: No, they said it. [00:53:03] Speaker A: What did they say? [00:53:04] Speaker B: They said he stretched out his hand. [00:53:05] Speaker A: He said, after Ben and I dropped. [00:53:07] Speaker B: Those bars, you know, like, rapping, he stretched out his hand. [00:53:11] Speaker A: He stretched out his hand. He said, one day everyone's gonna see. God. What? I wonder what kind of stretching out of the hand. [00:53:19] Speaker B: I know. I just love that they referred to a bandedye speech as him dropping bars. Cause, you know, that's like, that's like hip hop language, right? [00:53:26] Speaker A: Right. [00:53:27] Speaker B: So that's dude, chat GPT. I'm always just so scared of what chat GPT thinks about us, if this is what or not us, because you and I are not Gen Z. Thank goodness. But it is shocking how much you know. [00:53:47] Speaker A: But a lot of these references, I don't think are associated with Gen Z either. I mean, they start saying some things that I look at and I'm like, man, I don't think Gen Z would even know what they're talking about, dude. [00:53:56] Speaker B: In chapter 17, Chat GPT calls the king Noah's army dudes or his. Who does he have chasing out Alma? He just has his guards do it, right? Yeah, he calls them his goons, he said. Even sent his goons after Alma to kill him. That's amazing. [00:54:17] Speaker A: That's pretty good, dude. Chat GPT see, I don't think Gen Z refers to them as goons. I think that's. [00:54:21] Speaker B: No, totally not. But this is what I'm saying. The chat GPT thing. I mean, I know we say this because it's hilarious, because it is. But there is such a weird social, like, commentary on this. You've heard, you know, whatever. I always. There is something still fascinating to me that this is the information that a computer has put together of what it thinks or is spitting out what Gen Z talks like. And to give it scripture that is basically full of nuance, is full of depth and connection, symbolism and multiple meanings of words and things like this. It is fascinating to be like, here's how that regurgitates that out to basically what it feels like is the dumbest group of people. [00:55:22] Speaker A: Just say, there's something. [00:55:23] Speaker B: Just fascinating about that to me. [00:55:26] Speaker A: Where does it talk about? How beautiful in the pound, I hope. [00:55:29] Speaker B: Oh, yeah. I mean, I'm sure that's a mess. But what it is funny is there's definitely some times where chat GPT realizes its limitations and just goes. It almost just kind of quotes it almost like word for word. There is hopefully, hopefully. Hopefully we're not bumming you out with the chat. GPT translation of this stuff to those listening, we just, we laugh about it. It is, we do find it funny. Please, please don't, please don't get upset. I guess if enough people write us telling us to stop, we won't stop, but we'll at least know that people aren't very happy about it. Good stuff. Okay, so I did want to bring something up. While we were chatting, I did pull up some of the other Freiburg pictures, and I totally forgot one of my all time favorites. [00:56:14] Speaker A: Did you say, by the way, that Freiberg wasn't a member? [00:56:16] Speaker B: I don't think he was. [00:56:17] Speaker A: Really. [00:56:17] Speaker B: I don't think he was. [00:56:19] Speaker A: That's crazy to me. I didn't know that. [00:56:21] Speaker B: I mean, I can look it up and confirm it, but I think that I heard that information and it blew my mind as well. But I think he was commissioned by the church because, you know, one of my favorite Freiburg paintings, obviously, is Moroni at the end. No, Moroni at the end is good, but it's bleak. [00:56:38] Speaker A: But it's got a lot of details. Got the horn helmet. [00:56:40] Speaker B: Yeah, the horn helmet's a sweet. I'm glad you remember that detail because, yeah, it's very viking. Kind of like inspired one of my favorite friber paintings outside of church stuff, which, again, is funny is George Washington praying by, like, his horse or whatever, which again, is like, that's a free bird. Yes. But I think that they've said it's more or less factually totally incorrect. And it would be hard to confirm that anything like that ever would have happened. But I'm always just like, well, you can't confirm it didn't happen either. You know what I mean? Like, stop trying to, like, ruin everybody's fun, because that's an incredible painting. We had that hanging up at my house growing up, and I, that's, I think that, and this is a discussion for another day we actually need to have with our art podcast people. But, like, it is, I don't think that my parents ever once stopped to say, look at this painting, and here's what you need to be taking away from this painting. Instead, they put this beautiful painting up on a wall in our house. And it was still influencing me, at least, to see it constantly without having to necessarily be focusing or stopping what I'm doing to see it. But it's crazy how influential that painting is in a lot of my feelings of George Washington and of the founding fathers and kind of an understanding of that. It's like, that little detail was incredibly effective by just having some art hanging on your wall. And then that leads to the whole other conversation of, you know what I mean? Like, what do we have hanging on our physical walls? What do we have hanging on our mental walls? You know? I mean, it's like, it's a whole thing. Whatever. But anyways, not to get too far off topic there, but the other, the other, like, mormon art Freeberg painting that I had totally forgot about, but is. Is actually probably maybe my favorite one is Samuel the Lamanite dude up on the wall and the dude down there pulling his bow back and him just up there with the staff dude just arms outstretched, man, letting him have it, man. They can't hit him. And you see the little dudes marching up the stairs to go get him before he has to jump off. But it's funny because talk about a picture that isn't represented in the story whatsoever, because look how high that wall is that he's standing up on top of. Doesn't he have to jump off the wall to run back into the forest? I'm like, that dude's breaking both legs if he's jumping off the back of that wall, right? [00:59:20] Speaker A: That's his last dive. [00:59:21] Speaker B: It is totally like, he's not running off into the forest after jumping off the wall in Freiberg's painting, he's carried into the forest. No, no, he's just laying down, dude. He's like, I'm out anyways. It is funny. It is funny to see those. I do. I would. I would have it no other way, though, I think, you know, if it's. If it's a choice between. If it's a choice between be super, super factually accurate with exactly what this looked like versus make something so beautiful and epic that it just stands out in your mind to try to inspire. [01:00:01] Speaker A: The feelings that you're feeling when you read that. [01:00:03] Speaker B: And honestly, when I pulled up the, I should get a book that has all of those in there because there were some beautiful ones in there, like alma baptizing all the people, and it's just like the beautiful river and the dude kind of putting the coat on the woman that's coming out of the thing. I mean, there's just some, like. But dude also, though, the stripling warriors and Helaman up on the horse, man. Oh, that's so rad. But, like, we've talked about totally kind of negates the miracle of that whole story, right? Like, the artwork. The artwork as rad looking as it is. And inspiring as it is. You're like, nobody's killing 2000 of these dudes. Like, these he men. Superheroes. Yeah, these dudes. These dudes aren't getting killed. Go look at the deacons in your ward next week. Look at the dudes sitting by the door playing on their phones before church starts. It's like 2000 of these dudes. Nobody got killed. You're like that. God is good. God is good. The church is true. All right. [01:01:10] Speaker A: I think you're right, though, on that painting. I think that that was probably my favorite, the Abinadi one. And probably because of the cheetahs. [01:01:19] Speaker B: I know, me too, right? Or the leopards or whatever those things are. [01:01:22] Speaker A: I think leopards would be more geographically accurate. But I swear, like, cheetahs, my favorite animal, kid, just cause how fast they were. Right? And I swear those had, like, the little black lines coming down their noses just like cheetahs. [01:01:34] Speaker B: I just looked at it and I can't remember. But, yeah, but what I love about that picture is the guard is just like. He's all like. He's been hit by, like, a lightning bolt. So he's cowering off to the side up by the priest. There's a dude with, like, a spear. That's all like, you know. [01:01:51] Speaker A: You know, this brings up something we didn't even talk about that might be worth mentioning. Abinadi is filled with the power where they can. [01:01:59] Speaker B: He had a touch me not moment. Yeah. Kind of like Nephi did. [01:02:03] Speaker A: So I came across an interesting article in the 1930s, right? Yeah. Talking about the arc of the covenant. [01:02:11] Speaker B: Oh, yeah, let's talk about it. [01:02:13] Speaker A: And it just. It was interesting to me. They said, like, look, in early electronics classes for kids, one of the first things you learn is that if you take a highly conductive material like aluminum foil, and. And then you take an insulator like glass. And so you take that glass bowl, and you wrap it on the inside and the outside with the conductive material. You. You've created this capacitor, and you can take a stick in and put it inside the bowl, and it generates these little lightning bolts that shoot in all sorts of different directions. He's like, that's what you learn early on in class. Now go back to the Ark of the covenant, which was supposed to be a wooden box, which is a great insulator, and wrap it in gold on the outside and on the inside. And gold is not only a great conductor, but it is the best conductor, the most conductive material out there. And so what they've essentially done with this Ark of the Covenant is created this massive capacitor that has the ability to store an electronic charge. And he says, now going back, and they cover this with their fur, and they're walking out there and the in the wilderness as they're trekking, the amount of static electricity that's charging up and being built that this thing could store in it would be incredible. To where, when the guy reaches out to steady the ark, it shocks him dead. He says, maybe it wasn't God striking him dead. Maybe it's just that he touched a highly conductive material that was a capacitor storing in a massive electrical charge. And that's why the Israelites had to carry this thing on poles, these insulated materials, to protect them. And so you think, how often would you touch this thing and get a shock? And the reason why I bring this up is because it reminded me of Nephi when he's trying to build a boat, and he tells them, you will wither and die if you touch me. Don't lay a finger on me. And then after a while, the Lord tells them, stretch forth your finger and shock them. I wonder if they didn't have stories of the Ark of the covenant shocking people. You obviously have the story of this guy who was dropped dead and to where. This is the Lord's instrument, the Lord's power. What you associate with the Ark of the covenant resting on these people. This is Nephi reaching out to shock you. This is a binadi that's filled with this power that they dare not touch him. Similar to what you would experience with the Ark of the covenant. For what it's worth, it just seemed like it would maybe be interesting to bring that up. [01:04:50] Speaker B: I hope that in the next life, we get to watch some highlights of the Ark of the covenant, just like torpedoing the walls of Jericho or whatever, the electorate. You know what I mean? Like. Like, full on. Because, by the way, too, in a time where, you know, really the only electricity you're seeing in probably is lightning coming down from the heavens, right? So you're probably looking. It's like, oh, that is. That is. That's the only place in nature we're seeing this and can start fires and can do this whole thing. If you had these dudes marching around with a box that we, like, check this out. And they would build up some static electricity, and then just like, you know, like. Like force lightning coil this, like. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. Tesla coil. Like a group of people, they'd be like, yeah, I'm actually down with that God. You know, that's like, yeah, that's pretty, that's pretty sweet. [01:05:38] Speaker A: That is also my God. [01:05:39] Speaker B: But there is, it is, it is interesting that you bring that up because so many, there are a lot of times where it was just like, hey, like, let's put up the power of my God side by side to the power of your God. It's like if you were able to find ways of really harnessing very natural things, right? Like, if you had the, you know, I just don't think that it's without, I don't think it's outside the realm of possibility that a lot of God's power to us is teaching us science, is teaching us how to, you know, how to use forces of nature and natural law and, you know, all kinds of things and stuff like that. Like, I think that that's a, that's why on earth. Why on earth would that not still be God's power to go, let me teach you the science of the gods just as much as, hey, I'll shoot some, you know, I'll shoot some lightning bolts down, you know, when you need me to occasionally, you know. So anyways, there's something interesting there. [01:06:37] Speaker A: Here's maybe one last something to linger on, think about, okay. [01:06:42] Speaker B: I love these things. Keep going. [01:06:43] Speaker A: So a binadi, would he have been burnt to death, and would Noah have subsequently not been burnt to death had Abinadi not prophesied it? So this is almost like back to the future type stuff. Had the Lord not told him to tell him these things, would they have happened or did they happen because Abinadi said it? Did the Lord set that in motion? And, I mean, this almost kind of goes back with our discussion in the New Testament. When we talked about the Romans destroying Jerusalem, when we talk about Paul going back to go to Rome and then Rome catching on fire and burning and the Jews being blamed for that, does the Lord set things in events that, I mean, what comes first? Right? This is almost a chicken the egg question, but if he hadn't said, hey, by the way, his life is not going to be valued as a garment in the flame and he's going to be tied and burned, would they have done the same thing to Noah because it didn't seem common to be burning people for what they were doing? I don't know. [01:07:57] Speaker B: Those are some actually, like, big picture philosophical. I mean, I do actually think about this stuff all the time. I've tried to learn how to better say, oh, man, if only this would have happened. That would have been so much better, you know, because we, it's impossible for us to have the full perspective of how important some of our supposed failures or some supposedly bad things that happened to us along our journey, how those, we just sometimes don't know that those might have been the catalyst for the greatest blessings we've had down the road. So it's in the same vein of that discussion where the answer is, I don't know. But when we get to read it, you know, in hindsight or we get to read it, the big picture of it, it makes a lot of sense to us. And maybe in the moment, I don't know, maybe in the moment, one of those things was the catalyst for the other thing. And so I don't know. We can't know, I guess. [01:08:57] Speaker A: Well, and I think that becomes a big catalyst, speaking of, for people to join the church under Alma the younger, when he's going and teaching, and the words of a binadai are fulfilled, right. When they look at it and say, dang, he was right. Maybe that's going to help people kind of jump in there. Exactly. [01:09:18] Speaker B: So that's what I'm saying is like, maybe that's incredibly important for this whole thing to continue on is that small little detail. [01:09:25] Speaker A: And just the last thing to wrap this up on me, and I'm done. All right. We talked about this with Peter and Paul. For one, it was important that they leave the prison. For the other, it was important that he stays. And maybe it's their personality, or maybe it was what the Lord had in store for them. But sometimes the Lord commands people to open up their mouth and to speak. And Abinadi, he goes and he speaks and he's put to death. But then also for Christ, isn't it as a lamb before her shearers is dumb? He didn't speak. He didn't. You know, sometimes the Lord says speak. Sometimes the Lord says, keep quiet. Sometimes the Lord saves, and sometimes the Lord doesn't. And maybe there's something poetic and beautiful in the fact that Abinadi was sacrificed so that Alma the younger could be freed. [01:10:15] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I mean, that is kind of the, that is a really great way to kind of, to put a fine point at the end of that is that look at how important it was that this man died, that an entire generation could be saved. [01:10:35] Speaker A: And isn't that the type of Christ, I mean, his name itself, the father, was cast out or cast down. Was he not cast out, burned and destroyed so that an entire nation could be saved? And you look at Alma, the younger and the people that he saves, almost as the nation of those that believe the prophet are saved because the prophet gave his life for them. Isn't that the role of Christ? [01:10:56] Speaker B: Yeah, it's awesome. Good stuff. Please feel free to get a hold of us at the email address. High deep dive.com we always love reading through your questions, comments, feedback. We do what we can to try to respond to everything as much as possible, but we're also busy dudes. But we're doing our best. We're doing our best. [01:11:20] Speaker A: By the way, high is h I, not h I g h as as. [01:11:24] Speaker B: Much as as much as when we're reading chat. GPT it sounds like we're h I g h. No, it is less, as in hello. Hi. [01:11:38] Speaker A: Hi, guys. [01:11:40] Speaker B: [email protected]. Please continue to share this with your friends if you feel so inclined, especially if they're down for a little bit of book of mormon for Gen Z unofficial chat GPT translation for Gen Z by Broseph Smith we love you guys. We really love you hanging in there with us. Hopefully we can I mean, if nothing else, add a little bit of uplifting hour to your day or week or whenever. Hopefully, hopefully maybe inspire some some new ways to look at things and and inspire the, uh, the hopefully your own deeper personal research into this stuff and deeper, personal, um, you know, studying of these awesome scriptures and verses we've been reading through. So we love you guys, and we'll see you next week. P's we found out Freeberg was a member. Yeah, baby. He's in he's part of the tribe.

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