Episode Transcript
Speaker 1 00:00:15 Welcome to the weekly deep dive podcast on the add on education network, the podcast where we take a look at the weekly, come follow me discussion and try to add a little insight and unique perspective. I am your host, Jason Lloyd here in the studio with my friend and this show's producer, Nate
Speaker 2 00:00:32 Pifer. What's up,
Speaker 1 00:00:34 Nate. It is great to be back.
Speaker 2 00:00:36 It's great to be back again again again.
Speaker 1 00:00:39 Yes. Again, my apologies to everyone. I, my, my son had a soccer tournament this weekend down in Las Vegas and Nate and I got together earlier in the week to try to make sure we had this done and ready for you guys. And I just, something was missing. It just didn't quite feel right. So
Speaker 2 00:00:58 Can I, I just want to throw, this is a way that we can actually say thank you by the way, for listening. And that is, we recorded this once. It definitely, we were listening to it going, man, this doesn't have the same, like meat and potatoes that we try to provide with this podcast. And because we are so appreciative of you giving us an hour of your time each week, we're doing this again because we respect your time and we do appreciate you listening and it's worth it for us just to try to tighten it up and try to give you more of the mean potatoes because of how much we appreciate you guys listening. Um, our numbers have, have been like exponentially growing these past few weeks and continue to do so. Which means that you guys are sharing this with your friends and your family, and we cannot thank you enough. Thank you. And so for those, for those of you that are used to having, um, our C and our podcast up by this time on Sunday morning, sorry that we're late with it, but we respect your time and want to make sure to give you our best, our best effort
Speaker 1 00:02:10 A day late, but hopefully not a dollar
Speaker 2 00:02:12 Short. Yeah, there you go. Okay. Uh, first thing we need to do is we just needed to talk about a couple of the questions that we had from last week,
Speaker 1 00:02:20 Sir. And, and the one that kept popping up the most was why did we choose the translation of thigh instead of hand, one of the Joseph Smith translation says that Abraham took his servant by his hand, rather than placing his hand under his thigh. Great question. And I'll try to be pretty quick on how I answer this. Joseph Smith translation actually uses hand and thigh. So in Genesis a little bit later on when, when Jacob is making a covenant, it refers to his thigh and Joseph Smith translation sticks with the thigh. And if you use hand, it's not mutually exclusive to saying that he didn't take his hand and also place it under his thigh. So we're at yeah. Where it's, where it has both references in there. It might still be a fair assumption to assume that this is what's happening. Why is that? By
Speaker 2 00:03:17 The way, culturally
Speaker 1 00:03:18 And the significance is culturally speaking and the ancient near east later on in Greek history, Indo European history and even Latin history testimony and law and oath and witnesses were tied to, to this idea, this concept of your seed, your posterity, your ability to, to re
Speaker 2 00:03:49 Produce. Okay. So, so in practice, this is not an uncommon thing in practice for covenants to be made on the seed of the other person. Yeah.
Speaker 1 00:04:02 It might seem strange to us today, but it fits very well in context of the time back then. And when we're talking about the seed of Abraham and the covenant of God saying that through your seed, a nation is going to happen. This, everything comes down to his seed, his ability to, to have children that was that's a central part of the story. And it also helps us understand the character of Abraham in and putting his own line on the oath and not putting the line of his servant saying, I will, I will be the one that's impacted. I have everything to lose. You don't sleep.
Speaker 2 00:04:43 Yeah. So, so just to put a bow on top of it, the Joseph Smith translation and the king James version translations are not necessarily contradictory to each other. And actually it's quite the opposite. They are very much in line with each other, with ancient tradition and practice. And, and the reason that we stuck with the king James version is very specifically to talk about why that custom is important to the story. All right, what else we got?
Speaker 1 00:05:15 Perfect. And if I could, if I could put one little bow,
Speaker 2 00:05:21 You can put a second bow on top of the bow. Just do it
Speaker 1 00:05:24 Quick. Okay. Super quick. I, I want to take just from this, an idea that a witness is something powerful and in court someone's life is usually in the balance in how it's either going to be changed based on your testimony, your witness. And it's very important to bear a true witness. But I think having it tied to this idea of propagation or seed is this idea that your witness can potentially provide life to and that your witness should be something that is very sacred and special to you. That can be very life-giving to other people as we go. That's fantastic. It's fantastic. Let's keep going. All right. Let's uh, let's actually dive into this lesson. If you're good with that, let's do it. Okay. We're going to be talking about Esau and Jacob again. First off, Jacob is commanded by his mother and father to go back to the land of their parents, their forefathers, to get a wife and not too far up down the line, because it's going to be Rebecca's brother layman's daughter.
Speaker 1 00:06:33 So there's a little bit of difference here between when Abraham sent his servant to get a wife, because there is very ambiguous. Go choose a woman that you know is who is going to it's up to you. You figure it all out this time, very specific commandments. You're going to lay bins house. You're getting one of his daughters. Then we're not sending a servant. We're sending you with these very specific commandments. And part of it, it kind of gets glossed over right here, but you see it later on in the text, Jacob has also fleeing from Esau. He knows that his days are numbered because of the thing that happened with the blessing. And when Isaac dies, he might not have a place at home anymore. So he doesn't gather his, his possessions, his money. He kind of just flees in the night and goes under pressure to, to fulfill his parents' wishes.
Speaker 1 00:07:21 But Esau noticing how much it was important to his parents that he married appropriately. And I, and I believe I said this wrong last week. So my apologies when I said the Esau married and the Jefferson, it wasn't a gypsy. And he had to hit tight wives, but to cry, to cry, to try to correct that mistake Esau takes another wife and it's Ishmael's daughter going back to Abraham trusting. Yeah. So he's saying, look, I, I get it. You're not happy about that. Let me try to fix this situation and earn favor from you. And he, he marries Abraham's granddaughter through Ishmael though. Okay. Now we've been talking about taking shortcuts. Jacob's having to take this three day journey back to the land of their fathers, clear cross the desert, whatever where, where Aesop is just like, you know what? I've got closer blood over here, and I'm going to go and settle here and try to make things happy.
Speaker 1 00:08:20 But as much as that argument is, let's go back to Jacob Anisa. What happens when his dad is going to give Esau blessing, Esau is going out to hunt the animal and think about the effort that goes into hunting the animal and preparing the food, as opposed to having your mom take an animal that's already here that you've been raising and slaughter it and prepare it for you. Yes. So there, there is a little bit of back and forth. We can't just say the east side is always taking the shortcut while Jacob's doing it. The hard way, what we see here is that both of these boys are struggling for the praise of their parents and their learning there's this curve. And they're both going to go through this redemptive arc, hopefully at the end of the story to kind of see where they start and where they end. And I think it's a beautiful story. Let's go to Jacob's journey then. Yeah, let's do it. Okay. This is just as he's beginning he's he goes out camping and he lays down and he uses a rock for a pillow. I mean, not, not our idea of a pillow, but he,
Speaker 2 00:09:24 No, I like a firm firm mattress and a firm pillow, but not a rock.
Speaker 1 00:09:29 Yeah. So he's got his rock and he's sleeping there and he has this experience and, and it's commonly known as Jacob's ladder. And I think everyone's heard of Jacob's ladder before. Maybe we should ask what is Jacob's ladder. And so I want to read these scriptures. It just a few verses out of here, but I want to do it maybe with a slightly different translation. So going into this, this is Genesis chapter 28, verse 12, and he dreamed and be held. Now, the word that they use for ladder is Sue Lum and Sue Lum is a packs. ,
Speaker 2 00:10:06 It's my favorite thing in the scriptures actually
Speaker 1 00:10:09 Ax it seems like a crazy word. It's a Greek word. It just means that that, that word only shows up once in all of the scriptures. So it's not like we're seeing ladders all the time or this word that's translated as ladders all the time. This is a special occasion. And it doesn't mean it's not necessarily a common word for ladder. It comes from, from the verb to exalt. And so they're taking this exalting lifting up and, and changing it to a place. So using that, and then also towards the end of it, when it says the angels of God ascending and descending. So angels, the Hebrew is , which means to be sent. So my messenger, my lucky man, Malakai is also my angel. So you can say my messenger, my angel. So with that context, let's read this verse again. And he dreamed and beheld a place of exaltation set up on the earth and the top of it reached into heaven.
Speaker 1 00:11:14 So in other words, a place where people can be exalted up into heaven and behold messengers of God were ascending and descending. So you have messengers of God coming down to man and helping them work their way up to a place where they can be exalted or can rejoin back into the presence of God. That's what Jacob sees. And when he sees it, he describes this very interesting. He says, verse 17. And he was afraid and said, how dreadful is this place? Now, if you're seeing something that cool with God in angels and an exalting of people, you wouldn't think fear and dread would be the right adjectives in this, I'm going to circle back to that. But as he says, this is none other, but the house of God. Mm. And he finishes off, um, and he says that here, he's going to kick off a journey and say, well, let's, let's, let's go.
Speaker 1 00:12:20 Let's talk about this house of God and maybe fear and dread for a second. And then let's finish with, with this journey that he's going to go on and how that ties into this. Okay. Why is the house of God scary? And we might look at this, this idea of fear and say, well, fear is reverence or, or, ah, and he re we don't even have to necessarily go into the Hebrew because honestly it is the same disconnect, perceived disconnect that we have on our own language. English. Let me give you a few examples, the word awesome. What does that mean?
Speaker 1 00:12:59 Ah, some, I get the odd part of that. I don't know. There's some art in it. There's a lot of awe. Yeah. It's, it's full of awe. Right? It makes you, so if something's very awesome, it's like, wow, you're, you're inspired or you're or ah, like, wow, maybe we overuse it to where it loses some of that meaning. But then let me ask you, what does the word awful mean? It's full of awe. It exists exact same thing. Awesome. And awful, both mean that it's full of awe and, and you're like, well, okay. And then, and then how about terrible? Is, is it instills terrors? It's full of terror. What about terrific. This same, the same thing we use these words that I don't know, this, this, this idea of what is fear and what fear is, or should be, is a healthy respect for powers that are greater than yourself.
Speaker 1 00:14:12 I fear maybe a snake. If I know that snake has the power to take away my life and that fear, it turns into a sense of, of maybe a reverence for, because I respect that animal. I am going to keep my distance. Okay. So put all this together. All right. So talking about a temple and it being a dreadful place, it's not necessarily that it's dreadful or that it's, that he's afraid it's that it's inspiring, ah, in him that he's looking at it. And it's a place of reverence of, of, of a feeling may be the, you are quite a bit smaller than what you thought you
Speaker 2 00:14:59 Were
Speaker 1 00:15:00 Okay. Finding your place in the,
Speaker 2 00:15:02 You think this could also just have to do a little bit too with the w you know, we've, we've already kind of talked a little bit about it, but we'll get more into it. The, when the children of Israel were, were Moses came down and said, Hey, God wants you all to come up to the mountain and see him. And they're all like, eh, how about you do that for us? Moses, you can do the about, you do the talking for us Moses, and we'll just kind of kick down here. Like could part of it be the commitment that comes with it. I mean, there's, as you go through the temple, you make covenants that that are pretty serious. And, and you, you promise some pretty heavy things with some pretty heavy consequences. I like that. I'm just saying is like, could there be a little bit of, could there be a little bit of, you know, not fear, but there's definitely like a, this is not a casual thing.
Speaker 1 00:15:51 There's a healthy respect standing on the edge of a cliff. It's something that is daunting. It's something that requires a lot from you. And that something that requires careful thought about what you're going to do and deliberate movement and how you're going to proceed.
Speaker 2 00:16:07 Yep. I like that.
Speaker 1 00:16:09 Excellent. All right, let's go on to,
Speaker 2 00:16:12 So we're just, just a quick bow on top of that bow on top of that bow, let's see the bow Jacob's ladder is what he's really seeing is a temple. Absolutely. That's that's and I love that and I love the imagery of the messengers kind of coming and going from the place. And that's that I've always wondered what Jacob's ladder was. And I appreciate the insight and kind of the unique perspective on that.
Speaker 1 00:16:38 And that's a dude, dude, dude, ,
Speaker 2 00:16:42 , it's funny. You said that dude immediately. It's funny this time, and we talked about this before and I was thinking of like, whatever, but then I'm like, oh, there's a Muppet's thing in here somewhere. Look, I'm a non, okay, let's keep going.
Speaker 1 00:16:53 All right. And in verse 19, and he called the name of that place, Bethel, and you've heard of Bethlehem Beth being housed, subtle him being bred here. He's calling it Bethel, which literally means house of God. And this place is going to have a significant role throughout the Bible. It already had a part to play with Abraham and his interaction with God early on that we kind of glossed over. It's significant to Jacob here. And, and it is significant as we've been talking about Esau and Jacob being these two nations, even from the beginning that were struggling within the womb. And, and Jacob later on in this reading section is going to say, I have become two nations as he's divided his family up into groups before he comes back to Esau this, um, Israel itself. It's so most, it's almost predictive of when this unified nation is going to split and there's going to be a Northern kingdom headed by Ephraim and a Southern kingdom, headed by Judah.
Speaker 1 00:18:06 The Southern we all know about they have their temple at Jerusalem because they're the ones that lasted past the Assyrians, past the Babylonians. And they come back and restore. We don't hear as much from the Northern perspective, the perspective, but they also build a temple. We'll talk about this later on in the year, but guess where they build it right here in Bethel. And when the Assyrians come and destroy it, we know the story of how Jerusalem, and if we don't just hang tight and this year we'll talk about it, that Jerusalem is spared from the Assyrians. What we might not realize or recognize is that Bethel was also spared from the Assyrians so that it's not just, when you think of Israel, it's not just one holy place there, there's another in, and again, almost this, this play between the two nations almost seems similar to what we see with the play between Gentiles and Jews, as well as we see, we'll see throughout these here, all right, let's get to the journey in verse 20. And Jacob found a vow saying if God will be with me and will keep me in the way that I go and will give me bread to eat and Raymond to put on. So that I come again to my father's house in peace, then shall the Lord be my God and this stone, which I have set for a pillar shall be God's house and all that. Um, and of all that shit thou shalt, give me, I will surely give the 10th on to you.
Speaker 1 00:19:39 So he's, he's setting this up. He actually does a few interesting things, that pillow that he had, that rock, he takes it and he pours oil on it. And he sets it for a pillar that he's going to build to consecrate this place to God as this, as this holy place. And it's interesting that this is the pillow used for his head and he's, annointing it like you would anoint a head. So there's some interesting imagery there, but he's also setting this up saying I am going on a journey away from my father, and I'm going to learn and experience all sorts of things. And if the Lord helps me and guides me, I will be able to return back to my father's house and God will become my God. And this journey therefore becomes this type. If you will, of, of his mortal journey, this idea that he is leaving God, who's, who's up in the heavens down on earth with this idea and expectation that he'll be able to return back to his God at the end.
Speaker 1 00:20:43 So let's see this mortal journey played out in story of Jacob taking his wife's alright, journeys to the house, the land of Laban. He, he gets connected with Rachel and he has this, this moment where he yells and gives her a kiss and all excited the sear and stays with Laban for, for a month. And layman's like, look, your family. If you're going to be with me, let's figure out wages. I've got to pay you now. Something that's significant. Jacob is going to be acting like a shepherd of sorts and taking care of layman's flocks. That's, that's what the work he's going to be doing to, to earn his, his keep the role of shepherd. I believe we've talked about this before, is the role that falls on the youngest son. It's, it's always the, the non coveted work, if you will. So the fact that Rachel is the one doing the shepherding and bringing the flocks to the watering hole.
Speaker 1 00:21:47 When Jacob comes, tells us a few things about layman's family one, it tells us that Rachel's the youngest, which we kind of get that sense idea, but it also tells us that Laban does not have any boys old enough or any boys period, to be able to tend to flocks at this time. The other thing, when we look at Jacob and Esau, Jacob is the shepherd in that case back at home, and he has this experience. That's going to help him with this role. Esau was not, he was the hunter. So up unto the point, because up until the point where, where Jacob gets the birthright, and he's old enough to kind of trick him with that bowl of lended, whatever Jacob is playing the role of shepherd, he is playing the younger son's role in his own family dynamics. So Esau did preside his firstborn for a good amount of time, at least until this, this incident where they separate.
Speaker 1 00:22:52 All right? So Jacob going to be marrying into the family and he's going to be putting himself kind of in the position of the younger son is going to take the responsibilities of the younger son taking care of the flocks, but where he's not family, he's going to be doing it for a wage. Jacob says, name your wages. What do you want? He says, I'm going to be working seven years in exchange for re um, Rachel, because remember Jacob's fleeing his brother. He doesn't have money with them. He can't like Abraham servant just negotiate the wedding price and pay for it right then and there. So he thinks about seven years worth of work is a fair price for his bride. Jacob agrees. He works for seven years to pay off this, this debt. And now he's going to get his wife. And this is where things get a little interesting.
Speaker 1 00:23:46 Jacob is not taking his wife back to his father's house. He still trying to avoid ISA. So Laban is going to be taking the role of, of father-in-law and father. In this sense, Laban is the one that he has, the, the wedding chamber prepared for it, the father's house. And when Jacob goes into the wedding chamber to fulfill this time. So we talked about this marriage custom, maybe just real quickly I'll I'll, I'll hit it for anyone that doesn't remember. Hasn't listened to the previous episode, this idea that you go to the father's house, you negotiate the terms, the, the father of the bride negotiate the terms. You come back to your father's house, you prepare a special room. That's going to be used to consummate the marriage. Then when it's ready, you, you go to your father's house to prepare it. The father has to approve of it.
Speaker 1 00:24:39 And when the father says it is enough, you go back and pick up the bride. You have the guests along the way that kind of joined with the party and you come in and then you go to celebrate everyone. Who's there celebrates and has this big feast, except for the bride and the groom who go into the wedding chamber and consummate the marriage. And they stay the night together. And then they come out with, with proof showing that they are now married. And that is the ceremony. That's what it entails. When Jacob gets in the morning, gets up in the morning to, to show the proof and bring his bride and say, we are married. He finds out that he has sealed the deal with the wrong sister
Speaker 2 00:25:20 Karma baby.
Speaker 1 00:25:21 Right? And I find it interesting when they're describing Leah and Rachel, and they T they, they described Leah as weak eyed, tender, dyed, and, and this idea that Isaac who was weak of his eyesight, and I know it's kind of a play on words. It's not the same thing. Isaac was weakened. And that he couldn't see very well where her appearance maybe was a little bit weak on the eyes. So, but, but I think it's still a little bit of a play here. He's taking, he he's into this room in the dark where he can't see now, and this one of week of eyes is brought to him and, and he he's, he's tricked into this relationship,
Speaker 2 00:26:06 Karma, baby
Speaker 1 00:26:08 Karma. It's coming back to haunt him.
Speaker 2 00:26:11 It seems like it's a part of the atonement for this guy a little bit, though, right? For Jacob. It's part of his atonement process. Yeah. It makes sense that there's something to be said, in my opinion, for maybe him getting the chance to realize like, oh yeah, maybe doing this the deceptive way is not always or ever the right thing to do. And, and to me, it's just like where we get to see the character arc of Jacob. This only seems a fitting part of it is have him also put in a bunch of labor only to be tricked.
Speaker 1 00:26:47 And, and to add to what you're saying, Jacob is the younger one, right? By, by a minute, I'll give it, but he's still the younger one, but what was he always after the whole time he was there. It was to be the first born to have that. Well, now he's got his choice here. There's two daughters and he's not going after the older one. He's going after the younger one. And God says, Hey, you always wanted to be the first born. Right. Here's the first born.
Speaker 2 00:27:18 I love God's sense of humor. Here you go. You want the first born, right? Here's the first born. He's like, no, not that first born.
Speaker 1 00:27:27 Well, and maybe, and maybe this is a, maybe this is an eye-opener for him. And some of the experience that he has,
Speaker 2 00:27:33 That's what I'm saying is it's hard to imagine that after this experience of getting tricked, it's kind of like when we read in the new Testament, when, when, uh, Peter denies Christ, knowing Christ three times, and then Christ deliberately asks him three times, if he loves him almost, almost to let Peter make that connection right. On the third time you get the impression that that's probably when Peter was like, uh, that's excellent insight. I, uh, I love that. I got it. You know what I mean? It's like in a weird sort of way. It's like, I can almost picture after the morning when he wakes up with the wrong person, he's going, oh, okay. Uh, I, I get it.
Speaker 1 00:28:16 Maybe he had to cool down for a minute before he got to that point. And you know, I'm not trying to justify Laban and what he did. He had an agreement, he made an agreement,
Speaker 2 00:28:26 And this is totally a very uncool thing,
Speaker 1 00:28:29 Laban. And he's trying to culturally explain like, look, buddy, the oldest always, but that is this child.
Speaker 2 00:28:35 Yeah. He's trying to justify him pulling a total uncool.
Speaker 1 00:28:40 It was not cool, but it's not as bad maybe as it seems when I was growing up, I always thought that he had to work seven years before he got Leah. And then he had to work seven more years before.
Speaker 2 00:28:52 I totally thought that. I mean, that's what I think kind of taught. Yeah.
Speaker 1 00:28:56 And when I go back and I read that text, it doesn't say that at all. In fact, it says that they made the agreement. You will, I will give you Rachel now for the seven more years that you will serve me. So layman's conniving here, a second dowery for a bride that Jacob didn't even ask for. He's getting seven more years of labor out of him. And, and, and to be honest, to be fair in layman's perspective, this is labor that he was going to be getting for free, if you will, from his younger daughter anyways, that that Jacob was coming to take away from him. So he's kind of looking at it saying, you're trying to take my daughters away from me. And they were going to be doing this. You should be compensating me for that. And this is the labor that you should be doing, but he gives Rachel then and there to him and says, you can have her now for the seven more years that you'll do.
Speaker 1 00:29:46 And as soon as Jacob had fulfilled the week with Leah, because that was part of the celebration, you go in this bridal chamber and you stay there for a week and then the wedding is over. Then he has Rachel. All right. Let's uh, there's there's I think, but still does put in seven more years of hard labor, she still puts in seven more married right away, though. Yes. And, and towards the end of the second seven years, Laban, either his sons are old enough to start playing the role of shepherds, or he, he himself has sons and, and they start to, to come out because there's a little bit of a disagreement between Laban, sons, sons, and Jacob, as to what is their inheritance, because Laban muddies the water. Jacob paid the dowry 14 years labor for these wives. And this idea that for this reason, shallow woman cleave unto her husband, th th the separation Laban does not want to let it go.
Speaker 1 00:30:43 He wants to claim all of it as his, and even though he's giving Jacob these wages, their wages that he still claims are labeled himself. Like these are really mine, technically because I'm your dad. He's not. Yeah. So uncool, Laban, uncool. Let's, let's talk about some of the unique breeding practices that we see here. Okay. All right. Because this is, this is a little bit wild, Jacob. It seems like he's going to be pulling one over on Laban, because he says, what are the wages? Laban says, you tell me, because we get a little bit of a, a peak afterwards. Jacob says, you've changed the wages on me 10 times, right? This is ridiculous. You haven't been fair, but Laban says, tell me what you want. And we'll make this fair. And Jacob says, I'll take all the speckled and stripey ones. And you take all of the non speckled.
Speaker 1 00:31:43 They're all, they're all yours. Is this talking about sheep, sheep, goats, camels, lichen, calf, all right, anything, that's got a blemish. I'll take you take the ones that are unblemished. And then Jacob sets up the sticks. So he takes a stick, a Poplar, or a Willow branch or an . And he takes them and strips the bark off in this stripy pattern. And then he sticks the stick in the water. And then all of a sudden, all of these animals are producing speckled stripey flocks with blemishes that are, that, that are Jacobs. And then Laban sees how many of Jacob's flocks are increasing and says, whoa, that that's, that's not great. And starts to wanting to change things again. What is going on? What, what is with these magic sticks that make speckled animals? And, and it might seem from a, from a cursory reading of the text that Jacob is up to his old supplanter tricks.
Speaker 1 00:32:46 Remember his name? Jacob means to the supplanter. Yeah. He's not pulling one over on Laban. In fact, this story to me, shows that Jacob has learned his lesson and is doing things very differently to how he's done things to this point. This is what I mean this, when, when you go to take an animal and present it to the Lord as a sacrifice, and you look at the love, Moses, it requires an unblemished animal, a perfect animal. Jacob is offering to Laban the offering that he would be offering as if it was God, you take the best of the flocks. Anything that's perfect is yours. I will take the weaker, the, the, the blemish, the, the, whatever's not quite up to snuff. And not only that, but he's also favoring Laban and giving him a greater portion of the flux and taking the smaller portion for himself. In fact, this story reminds me of, of when they take the soldiers to go fight and Israel is grossly outnumbered, and God says, Nope, you still have too many people. He has.
Speaker 2 00:34:11 Right. I love this story, but yeah. Keep
Speaker 1 00:34:13 Going. Yeah. Anyone who doesn't want to be here, go home. Okay. And they lose a bunch. Okay. Still too many. Anyone that drinks water out of the river, just like a dog, go home, as opposed to pulling it up in your hand, until they get the small numbers. He said, okay, that seems about fair. This is what Jacob's doing. He's shorting himself.
Speaker 2 00:34:34 It's going to say, when you first told me the story, I'm like, Hey, he's picked up some things from his grandpa. Yes. I like it. He likes it. He's
Speaker 1 00:34:41 Demonstrates his inner Abraham. He's figuring it out. It is. It's a beautiful thing. And they say, well, some, some scholars have even explained this, that by putting the stripey sticks, the sticks with the bark stripped off in front of these animals while they're drinking, maybe they're just staring at it. And it says, oh, I want to breed with a stripey animal. And it's, it's influencing their decisions on what animal to breed with. That's nonsense. That's not what's going on here. That's
Speaker 2 00:35:11 Some weird biology that I don't know about, but
Speaker 1 00:35:14 Staring at sticks with Stripe bark is not going to make a sheep, go choose an imperfect sheep. Like, I mean, if you want to make a scare sheep and like, try to know
Speaker 2 00:35:24 What is so what's, what is that whole thing then?
Speaker 1 00:35:26 And the other thing is these sticks. He's not putting them up in posts that they can see there's putting them in their water and you don't see sheep sticking their eyeballs down in the water trough to look at the stick and see if it's
Speaker 2 00:35:36 Stripe or not. To be honest, I've never seen a sheep drink water ever. So I don't know they cooked for all. I know they could stick their eyeballs fully in water, but I'm going to take your word for it that they don't, they don't.
Speaker 1 00:35:48 All right. So then what's up with the stick. And, and the last point too is after they make this agreement, Jacob says, go through this and separate all of them out. So in Jacob's small speckled group, it's not like they have a choice. There are no unblemished for them to choose from versus blemished. All of the unblemished have been separated out. Okay. Good question. Wait, you're not going to tell us what's up with the stick, the branch. This is very important. Oh, good. Okay. Thank you. Well then
Speaker 2 00:36:25 Don't okay. Do you remember making it sound like you weren't ever going to answer
Speaker 1 00:36:28 This? Now, this is critical. The branch is actually a name of Christ in the old Testament. Okay. I know this and this idea of a branch with water is a theme that we will see over and over again, where, whether it's Moses's rod and water, whether it's here with Jacob and this idea of taking these branches and putting it in water, when you got Aaron's branch that sprouts and grows it, that has to do it with, with water to show that his is the right lineage of priesthood. You have. When, when an ax head flies into the lake and the prophet takes a branch and throws it into the lake and the ax head floats, and, and these branches, they throw it into water. That's poisoned to make it fresh. It's, it's going to happen over and over and over again. And my point with this in not just that, it's the name of the Lord in the old Testament, in a few instances, but in the new Testament, when Christ rides into Jerusalem, the people take branches in their hands and greet him because he is a branch from the house of David.
Speaker 1 00:37:47 And when you talk about Isaiah 53, as a tender route, as a branch grows out of the ground, he is described as this branch. And he is like a branch, the tree of life. And ultimately, when he gets on the cross, you have the cross symbolic of the tree of death. This decision that brought death to mankind, that's killing the man part, if you will, of God, but Christ being the tree of life is fixed to the tree of death. To overcome the consequences of death. He is hung from a tree and you have this garden of Eden topology. Again, this idea that it has come full circle, and he has come to restore that, which was lost and is very symbolic, very powerful. And you want to look at the art of this. It was a branch that was thrust into his side, in the form of a spear that causes water to come out.
Speaker 1 00:38:48 So there's a lot of symbolism in this story of procreation, whether it's through the animals, as we see with Jacob taking these branches that he's putting in the water, or even with his own wives, as, as Leah is older, she bears a couple of sons and she is no longer able to bear. And so her son goes out and finds the mandrakes again from a tree, a plant, and brings it back. And Rachel, who can't have kids at all bargains with her sister for those mandrakes. And even though Rachel's the one that ends up with the mandrakes Lee is blessed that her womb is open and she is able to have children again. And Rachel is blessed that she's able to have Joseph, which by the way, is a powerful story that she named him, Joseph, because Joseph is Hebrew for, he will add, she had faith like Abraham and Sarah, that there was one more coming that he will add one more to her down the road.
Speaker 1 00:39:55 She believed that Benjamin would show up, anyhow, this, this idea of branch being what redeems Jacob is that in order for Jacob to be able to return to Esau, he can't do it. If he doesn't have all of these flocks that he can send before him as a gift to appease Esau, he can't do it. If he doesn't have all of these women and children, that he can try to humble his brother and make peace with him, if it was not for God, blessing him in these ways, the atonement, if you will, of Jesus Christ, he cannot return to his father. And it's very symbolic. Then it's very interesting that way, but it's also very scientific in the last decade. So we're not talking very long. Maybe, maybe the last two decades. There have been several scientific papers written about the Poplar branches when feeding them to sheep in the areas of drought and low food, it increases the amount of babies. Those sheeps have, how often they get pregnant and the amount of kids they have or offspring, they produce throughout their lifetime as wild. So by stripping the bark, he's actually releasing the nutrients in the Poplar plant that helps his flock become more fertile. And how did he know to do this?
Speaker 2 00:41:34 Jesus, Jesus,
Speaker 1 00:41:36 Jesus. He saw in a vision, the speckled sheep, and the Lord said, I have seen how Jacob has treated you. I have seen what you've demonstrated
Speaker 2 00:41:48 You. I have, sorry, Laban. Thank
Speaker 1 00:41:49 You. I have seen how Laban has treated you. I have seen what you have gone through and I will deliver you. And he shows him what he needs to do. And so he, he sets this up and I love this combination because you have this, the scientific side of things, whether Jacob knows it or not, this idea of stripping the bark to have the nutrients, help the Lord prosper him, that the God's not just going to do everything, but he's going to say, here are the actions I want you to take, because I know you have the faith to follow these instructions. I know that you will do this. And when you do, I will bless you. So you have this science and faith working hand in hand to bless Jacob and giving him what he needs to be able to redeem himself and return to the presence of God.
Speaker 2 00:42:50 Unbelievable stuff, man. It's fantastic. See this wasn't even in our first recording thing where we recording this, because this is the dopest stuff. So far of the episode, the branch and
Speaker 1 00:43:00 Ranch is so
Speaker 2 00:43:01 Good for any
Speaker 1 00:43:03 Who are curious. If you look up in the constellations and you see the constellation Virgo, do you know what is in her right
Speaker 2 00:43:10 Hand? I'm going to guess a branch, the branch,
Speaker 1 00:43:14 The Virgin is coming with the branch.
Speaker 2 00:43:17 I mean the branch all over the place. What did the bird fly back with with Noah's Ark? The branch. That's a, yeah. I mean, there's, there's, there's, it's the branches all over the place.
Speaker 1 00:43:27 It's a very powerful image of God and where we see it. I feel like I can go here because it's, it's not really going into a different section of old Testament and the book of revelation. When, when he's taking John on the island of Patmos, in a vision, he's going to take a tour of the temple. And he hears a voice that says, I am God. And he turns to look and who does he see? It's not God. He sees the menorah,
Speaker 2 00:43:53 How interesting the tree, the
Speaker 1 00:43:54 Tree, the menorah is inside the holy place in the tabernacle. And it represents the tree of life. And then he sees, then he sees, God, see Christ as this image, he sees Christ holding this. And I'll take you to one more. And the book of Mormon, when Nifae wants to see what his father saw in a vision and his father saw the tree of life and an angel comes, he says, what desires thou? And he says, I desire to know the meaning of the tree. And instead of saying, oh, let me tell you what this tree or here, let me instead, the angel says, look, and he looks and he beholds Mary. And then he sees Mary kind of disappear. And he says, do you not understand the condensation of God? No, I don't. I understand the love God. And then he sees a child being born and realizes, this is the child of God.
Speaker 1 00:44:52 And after he sees this child being born, the angel says, now, do you know what that tree means? And he says, yes, it's the love of God. It is God Christ is the tree. And the fruit of the tree is the atonement. That is what he came to do. That is the product of his life here on earth is the ability to save mankind. He is the branch and there's all sorts of references. The vine that is this attached to Christ will prosper. If you're not attached to that, it'll wither a it's everywhere. But that's, I probably said too much at this point. Let's keep going. All right.
Speaker 1 00:45:34 When they're having, maybe it's worth just a small, quick mention when they're having this child war with the, with the wives and the handmaids. And we've seen this in the contracts that are, that are back in this time period, this idea that if you can't bear, then you were, you were actually legally obligated to provide a handmaid, to produce offspring to your husband. As part of this marriage contract, anyhow, as this, this race of kids is going back and forth. I find it fascinating that Leah, she has Levi by the way. And we give Rachel a lot of credit for Joseph, but th th there's some good things coming from Leah and all these wives. But when she has Levi, she's had a couple of sons now, and she says, now that the Lord has blessed me with the sons, this is going to join me to my husband.
Speaker 1 00:46:29 And so I am going to name him Levi. And to me, that's hilarious because Levi is the Hebrew word for divide, but it's the Lord is going to join me. So I'm, I'm going to name him divide. But that's the thing is it's this the division between Rachel and Jacob that is causing her to be joined to Jacob. So again, this idea of cleaving separating in order to join. And, and ultimately, if we look at God as the groom and the church is the bride, we join ourselves to God. As we separate ourselves from a lot of different actions or unclean thoughts or things that would make us profane. And that is part of that joining process that seals us to our husband. Love it. All right, moving on.
Speaker 1 00:47:26 Jacob is warned in a vision that he, oh, I didn't even say this. When we were talking about how Jacob is, is showing signs of Abraham here by, by saying, I'll take the blemished flock. It's not just that the blemished flock, but if any of layman's flocks were to produce speckled Laban was under no obligation to provide those to Jacob. He could keep them. However, if any of Jacob's flocks produced a pure flocks, he was required to supply those to Laban. So his smaller pile even diminished even more in, if they pre re reproduced any, any that looked like layman's, he would have to pull them out and thin his herd even further. But, but he was obviously blessed. He's warned in a vision that he's got to leave. He takes his wives who by the way, are pretty upset about this because Laban is supposed to provide his wives with, with their, with their dowry.
Speaker 1 00:48:29 And Laban keeps everything that is their wives as his own. And so Jacob takes off and, and Laban becomes upset, chases him down. And they're going to, they're going to establish a covenant between them and a peace treaty. But part of what Lavan is so upset about is that Rachel stole layman's gods. And so Lavan saying, I w what are you doing? These are mine. And they're not. He it's legally, contractually Laban is in the wrong, and God warns Laban in a dream saying, don't say anything but Laban, not, not, not great at following God's instructions and dreams. Apparently he, he goes in full head of steam anyways. And so he is searching every one of the tents to try to find these gods kind of a weird story here. But Rachel puts the gods inside of the pack bags on the camels and, and she's sitting on them.
Speaker 1 00:49:27 And she says, I can't get off of them because it's that time of month for me. And this idea that the gods could be made unclean ritually, unclean, by being underneath the woman who was unclean at that time of month. I think the writers are including that story in there, as weird as it sounds just as another, uh, another kind of like Abraham, who was saying that these gods aren't gods, if you made them, you're their God, this idea that humans can defy all the gods, how could they be gods over the humans then? So that, that's what that story's in there for, for what it's worth. That looks interesting. Some good, some good Hebrew law. Yeah. Now let's get to the reunification of Jacob and Esau. Yeah. Okay. I love this story. It's my favorite one. It's a good, it's a great story. At least of this section.
Speaker 1 00:50:19 So Jacob sins, messengers to Esau to tell him he's on his way. And when Esau finds out, he's on his way, he rounds up 400 men to go with him, to meet his brother. Okay. And this is where it gets kind of interesting because the story, if we were to skip the end of the chapter and start reading the next chapter, it would read smooth as if we didn't miss anything at all. Okay. Jacob gets word that his brother's coming. And he says, okay, here's what we're going to do. I'm going to arrange all of these gifts of flocks and whatever that the Lord has blessed me to be able to redeem myself as presence to him, to try to soften his heart. And then I'm going to be careful and divide my family up into two groups. And that's where we, we mentioned before this idea that two nations.
Speaker 1 00:51:09 Okay. And, and when it all comes down to it at the end, Jacob passes over all of his family puts himself right up at the front and, and Esau runs to him. And as you've pointed out last week, so beautifully, Nate embraces him and weeps and kisses him. And this is such a tender moment and the words that he uses, but bef let's let's, let's come back to what Jacob says and talk about this little story that interrupted the, that the time that the messages are going out and he raised himself to the time he goes and meets him in between, Jacob is setting all of this up and he pushes everyone on the other side of the river, but himself, he stands alone. It's nighttime sometime, and God appears to Jacob. And you're thinking, wow. I mean, Abraham walked with God. Noah walked with God.
Speaker 1 00:52:11 Enoch walked with God. Here comes Jacob's moment. He's not at the very beginning. Remember, he's up the top of the tower up in heaven. He's not down on earth with him. JC in that vision. Yeah. He's seeing that vision. But now God has descended to the earth with him. Here's this moment where he is like Adam and Eve walking in the garden, cool day, he's made it, he's reached it. Right. And you think about how glorious this moment, how loving and was God is not embracing him like ISA and weeping on his neck. He wrestles him and let's go. And, and, and by the way, this is another hap actually dominant the word they use for wrestle here. God fights with him. Why? Great question. And, and it lasts all the way until the sun comes up and, and God says, Hey, look, it's been a fun wrestling match in all, but, but I've got to go.
Speaker 1 00:53:13 And Jacobs says no and, and holds onto God's leg. And so Jacob is he's desperately holding on. And in fact, I love the words that uses. And chapter 12, verses four, to describe this, he says that Jacob is weeping and supplicating God. So, so this is taking a lot out of him and he is crying and, and praying to God because it's physically draining him spiritually, draining him. God touches him on the leg and dislocates his thigh, cheap move, pulsed, the God Carden brutal. Yeah. And still Jacob won't let go. And so God asks, what do you want? And Jacob says, I'm not letting go until you give me a blessing.
Speaker 1 00:54:09 And this one of the most powerful, amazing stories he here, he is asking from a blessing from God. And, and in life. I think I look at this story so many times we think of Satan as the adversary, Satan, as the devil is always trying to tempt us or ruin our life or do whatever. But Jacobs adversary was God. And oftentimes we find it that it's what God asks us to do. That causes us to strain or to want to buckle or to let go. Oftentimes it's what God is saying or doing that tests our faith and, and makes us feel like we need to let go. Or it feels like God, isn't treating us fair when he reaches down and dislocates the thigh at the end of a brutal wrestling match. But at the end of the day, he holds on and that's, to me, the most amazing imagery story powerful.
Speaker 1 00:55:14 And so God blesses him and changes his name from Jacob, which means supplanter. He's no longer the supplanter here. He is the one Yesod to prevail, to fight with, to go to war with it and to, to win with God L God prepared to prevail with God, because he has prevailed with man in his dealings with Jacob, or excuse me, his dealings with Laban and his dealings with Esau. And now he has prevailed with God in, in having to go on this journey and having proven himself and through the power of the atonement of Christ, have the branch been able to build himself up to where he can come back home and redeem himself and, and all put into this moment of a fight with God. He prevails. And we it's, it's the coolest thing that we call ourselves Israel today that we have that opportunity to earn that name. When we prevail, when it feels like God is asking too much from us, or when God is putting things that don't seem like they're fair, or they don't like it's quite right in these proving us and testing us in when we can hold on. We earned that title that we call ourselves
Speaker 2 00:56:33 Today. I love that. Can I add one tiny little thought, please do I know we've kind of talked about this before, but I think that, that another kind of awesome lesson in this story too, and again, we've talked a little bit about it, how, again, I used to work for really, really great people. And as I was leaving my job, the owner of the company said, you know, I know that you're going to succeed. As long as your living the best you possibly can. And he said, if you're doing everything you possibly can to, to not blow it, basically you have the right to call and insist that God blesses you and, and carries you through. When things get gnarly, he said, that's, that's your right to do. If you can, you know, look yourself in the mirror and go before God. And, and with, you know, sincerity to be like, Hey, I'm doing my best.
Speaker 2 00:57:31 And that's what you've asked me to do. And here's what I need in return. And that we should feel confidence in doing that and faith and power and doing that in the story is kind of an interesting thing too. Where when, when Jacob was born, he was basically not letting go of his brother, but it would, which again are early in his life. It's like, you look at what that kind of symbolizes almost, right? Like he's, he's trying to, he's basically trying to maybe a surf, his brother or whatever it is, but it's basically like he's holding onto east Sao early on and kind of throughout their early lives. It was very much about, Hey, I want to get gain, but I want to do it through tricking my dad, or I want to do it through kind of sneaking around and get my brother.
Speaker 2 00:58:21 I finding my brother vulnerable and to kind of get it from him in a place of vulnerability. Right. And to kind of do that. And it's interesting because later on, as his story kind of matures, and instead of, instead of being able to deceive his father into a blessing, he's now with God, basically saying I'm not letting go. Even if it means that I'm going to have to go through extreme pain, even if this means that it's going to be physically exhausting, emotionally exhausting, I don't care. I've been trying to do everything I can to live. Right. And to atone for the things that I've done that are wrong, no matter what, I'm not letting go until you bless me. And just, just his approach in those two different situations shows his maturity. I feel like through that process and, and look at what he was blessed because of that.
Speaker 2 00:59:22 Right. And, and look at the almost kind of the fulfillment or, or kind of the, the redemption of his story, kind of all culminates in this. And then when he goes and meets with Esau, right? And I think that this is just an, another chance to maybe take a look at this and apply it to our daily lives, to our relationship. And I, um, I firmly believe that even blowing it, if we can at least be doing everything we can to just try our best and to, to fix and progress, we truly can have confidence in, in, even if it is a wrestle with God. And sometimes we are not getting maybe the answers we want right away, or even necessarily the exact blessings we want right away. We can with confidence, hang on and say, I'm not letting go until you bless me too. You put such
Speaker 1 01:00:21 A great bow on that.
Speaker 2 01:00:23 Thanks buddy. Thank you though.
Speaker 1 01:00:25 That was great. And going, maybe a teeny Bo
Speaker 2 01:00:31 Now put a bow on top of this boat is I'm just, I'm just trying to lock you softballs, baby.
Speaker 1 01:00:37 I just going right back. I think to what the original purpose of the story of Adam and Eve was when, when, when they tried to do it with a fig leaf, right. And try to cover it, or try to find a quick, easy way to, to hide what they had done. When God says here, let me show you the right way. When, when, when he comes in there accountable and says, yes, idea, let's find out how we can make this, right. And now we're going to make coats of skin, which involves animal sacrifice, which involves the messy and a longer process that more fully covers them to where it is. Uh, it is, uh, a harder road at times. It might seem that it does require a little bit more grit or a little more dirt or, or, or hanging in there a little bit messier.
Speaker 1 01:01:21 But, but at the end of the day it's so much more fulfilling and it covers you so much better, the, this idea of atonement and what it can do for you. And, and the weird thing is, I guess maybe the magic of it all in how it actually becomes really the shortcut, the easy way. When God, when Christ says in the new Testament, my yoke is easy and my burden is light. Somehow when we try to do it ourselves and this clumsy way of hiding it, or, or trying to be a sub plan or a trick, or do whatever we end up having to go down a longer road of hard knocks before we figure it out, or we, I mean, you can't get to it down. That way
Speaker 2 01:02:02 Always ends up being more painful and longer. It does. I mean, it's a universal law. I swear it's the karma, right? And if you try to do it the shortcut way, if you try to hurry and run across your backyard with the lawnmower, as fast as you can, your dad's going to come out and look at and be like, this is terrible. Do it again. And then you're going to run across it again with the mower. And he's going to say, it looks worse, slow down and do it again. And now you don't get to go do the activities that you had planned. Had you just done it right? The first time you would have been done way sooner. It's a universal principle, right?
Speaker 1 01:02:39 It AB it absolutely is. If you want to be like me says, God, then truly, there's a transformation that has to happen in order for you to
Speaker 2 01:02:51 Process, you have to go through the process
Speaker 1 01:02:53 And you see him, you see Jacob become just like Isaac, just like Rebecca, just like Abraham. And it's a proud moment. And I love, I love the words that he says, this is Genesis chapter 33, verse 10. And Jacob, let me just skip down for therefore I have seen thy face, he's talking to Esau as though I had seen the face of God and thou was pleased with me. Wow. Could you imagine seeing the face of God and seeing that that face is pleased with you
Speaker 2 01:03:32 And when he's saying it to Esau too, I think that again, there's, there's such a beautiful moment of redemption there for both of them kind of like we've talked about, but, but in this case, if you see the face of God and, and he's pleased with you, what, what, what do you think that means, right? Specifically? What, what does that mean? Because I think it's important to the story, right? Cause he had just got done seeing God's face and I'm assuming by the end of it, when God realized, Hey, this dude is going to prevail, he is what I knew. He was, I can imagine he probably saw the face of God pleased. Yes. Because he saw the redemption, right? Like he, he, he had fulfilled, it passed his test. That's right. He passed the test. And again, when you, and then, so in this relative to Esau, w w you know, consider what, consider the anxiety and the emotion, and maybe the fear and whatever it was that he was probably expecting to see from his brother who brought an army with him.
Speaker 2 01:04:42 Right. And when he saw for whatever reason through, through, you know, Esau's redemption and atonement, whatever that looks like when he sees him and realizes, oh, he's not here to kill me. Right. Oh, he's not here to do. In fact, he's, he's calling me brother when I'm calling him master. And he's like, no, no, no, don't do that brother. We're brothers hold me. And they wept, I, it probably was a lot of the same emotions of like relief and fulfillment, you know, all of those things. And, and, uh, man, I, that's a pretty powerful image
Speaker 1 01:05:28 And compare how he's going to feel in this moment right now, when things are right with his brother, as opposed as if he had seen the face of God, that he was pleased with him, as opposed to when he had stolen the birthright earlier on, it still is not the right word, right. When he had done whatever he had done to win the birthright, if you will, how was that victory of winning it earlier on when he sees how distraught his brother is in his sadness, when he sees the anguish and he sees and hears him and he's fearing for his life and he can't celebrate in the moment, he can't own it, even though he's earned it. If,
Speaker 2 01:06:09 I mean, in a weird way, what you just said is in a weird sort of way, he overcame death again. Right? Like it, like in that relationship with God, it's like, that's that, it's the relief of overcoming death. I mean, he looked, he looked his brother in the face and realized, oh, this isn't the end. But I mean, if you look at that again with the relationship with God, right? Like how amazing is that, that God, that God over that God sacrificed and overcame death so that, so that we don't have to, to be forever buried in the dirt. Right. I mean, it's, it's, it's actually a pretty incredible symbol there too, is just, he's looking in, in, in the face of the person he thought was coming to kill him.
Speaker 1 01:06:57 And it didn't, and it was his salvation. Yeah,
Speaker 2 01:07:00 Exactly.
Speaker 1 01:07:02 And this idea of fearing God, I mean, we talked about what it means to fear God, but it's, I mean, it's a powerful story and, and it comes full circle for Jacob when he's able to go back to his father, when he he's able to go back to Esau and we'll see it here, we saw when he saw God face to face, but he's actually in the next, uh, in the next little bit going to return to Bethel where, where he saw God standing at the top of the ladder. And now this time God is going to be at the bottom of the ladder, walking with him in the cool of the day, if you will, just like Adam and Eve and the, I mean, it's amazing. It's restoration and, and real quick, you said this, I think it's very important. Um, it was a great point when he comes there, he is saying, I am your servant. And he's calling him, Lord,
Speaker 2 01:07:54 Jacob's saying this to Esau. Jacob's
Speaker 1 01:07:56 Saying this to Esau. He's saying, my Lord here is this. And I I'm, your servant is providing you with this.
Speaker 2 01:08:04 And he's begging for his mercy.
Speaker 1 01:08:06 He is. And Esau was like, no, you don't need to. And I've got a whole list of letters from, from people in the near east different kingdoms that are riding to the Egyptian pharaohs. Cause the pharaohs were the, the Egypt was much more powerful, a massive. And, and you've also got other ones when they wrote them to the Hittites. But the point is in these kingdoms, when they would write, they would use these familiar relationships to describe the relationship between the kingdoms. They would write to the pharaohs and say, father, I need you to send an army to come beat down my brother. And so any kingdom that was on par with them on size, on might, they would refer to as brother. And if it was a kingdom that was lower them, they would call them their child, their son, or their daughter. And if it's a kingdom that's greater than referred to them as their father.
Speaker 1 01:08:58 So as, as like you said, as Jacob was here, supplicating for his life and saying, I, I am your servant east Sao, he's reaches out to him and says, I have enough my brother. And it's not just because they're blood brothers, it's that his saying, you don't need to be my servant. We are equal. And so Aesop kind of comes through his own transformation on this other side of things, too. And, and when we did this last time, Nate, you asked, what do you think was that transformation for him? And, and, and I think that's a powerful moment. I don't know if he goes to that full transformation until he sees the humility of Jacob because he came with 400 men.
Speaker 2 01:09:47 Yeah. I mean, he, he came with maybe with some ill intentions. Yeah. Maybe I don't know the,
Speaker 1 01:09:53 And, and it's hard to say, but that, that humility and love from his brother to come and treat him in such a different way, softens his heart and helps him go through a transformation as well. And, and the story doesn't focus on Esau. Unfortunately, we don't have a much, uh, his, his view of this whole story is not as well developed, but I still think that arc is there. Love it. Okay. And if I were to say one last thing, okay. It's verse 11, chapter 33. And maybe he doesn't mean it this way, but I can't help, but see it this way. This is Jacob talking to ISA and he says, take, I pray thee my blessing. And I go back to that blessing that, that Jacob took when Esau was so sad and says, is there no blessing for me? And, and he comes back and says, take my blessing.
Speaker 2 01:10:56 There's something. So again, re redemptive about that in, in, in understanding maybe Jacob's part of the full repentance processes making, right. What he knew he had wronged his brother. And by the way, I think it's also important to note Isaac, wasn't wrong in his blessings for both of his sons too. And, and it's kind of, as we're talking about, he, he promised or in the blessing that he gave Esau, he said, your brother, isn't going to rule over you, which came to be true. And how did he say that he was going to basically be free of his brother's rule by the sword, by the sword. And it's interesting when you look at this story it's is if you look at that blessing at the time face value, I mean, even, even my kids came home from Sunday school a couple of weeks ago and said, oh yeah, the blessing was that Esau got permission to go kill his brother. You're like, I mean, that is kind of how the blessing release. That's how it sounds when you read the blessing, but it is interesting Esau DUS show up with an army and in that process does get his blessing back. Yeah. Isaac's, Isaac's prophecy was absolutely still fulfilled. Luckily in this really beautiful, glorious, redemptive way. And not necessarily in the bloodshed that the, we kind of assumed, or you could have maybe assumed from the blessing that he was given. Yeah.
Speaker 1 01:12:32 He, he wasn't bamboozled. Could I just use
Speaker 2 01:12:35 That word? That was a fantastic word. Ashley, that's a perfect word to use in this circumstance, as,
Speaker 1 01:12:40 As much as it makes Isaac seem like this feeble, weak guy that, that kinda has his wife or his kid play this trick on him. Like he was in tune with the spirit and, and in the end of the day, God is always right. And he was a man that was sensitive to that spirit.
Speaker 2 01:12:55 Love it.
Speaker 1 01:12:57 And I love how these three patriarchs work together in such a powerful example to all of us, to me. I mean, Abraham has God Isaac, as, as this Christ image, but Jacob is us, this Israel, this, this journey through mortality, this, you know, figuring it out and, and finding out that sometimes like Christ says to be the biggest or the best or whatever, really, it means to be the servant.
Speaker 2 01:13:27 It's, it's cool. It's cool where both Jacob and Esau started and where they end up and it's inspiring. And, and it's a beautiful story. And, and again, as always, Jason, you did a fantastic job and thank you as always for being so well-prepared with this stuff. And, and I love doing this podcast because I love learning, learning a lot of the stuff from you too. So thank you. Um, you know, for putting in the work again this week. Oh, thanks for
Speaker 1 01:13:53 Producing it, Nate. Glad to be here. Okay.
Speaker 2 01:13:55 So, um, anything else we need to talk about this week?
Speaker 1 01:13:58 I don't think so. I think
Speaker 2 01:14:00 We covered it. I think we did to my man. Um, do you want to talk about what we're talking about next week or
Speaker 1 01:14:04 The next next week we get into some real sketchy material? Yes.
Speaker 2 01:14:08 Finally,
Speaker 1 01:14:09 Jake, Jacob had 12 sons, but he also had one daughter. Oh. And, uh, okay. And, uh, and, and she runs into a little bit of problems in her.
Speaker 2 01:14:21 Oh, yes, baby. Now. Ah, now I know what we're talking about. Okay. We'll, we'll leave that as the tease for next week and until next week, see ya.
