Proverbs & Ecclesiates

Speaker 1 00:00:14 Welcome to the weekly deep dive podcast on the add on education network, the podcast where we take a look at the weekly, come follow me discussion and try to add a little insight and unique perspective. I am your host, Jason Lloyd here in the studio with my friend of the show's producer. Nate Piper. What's up. Hey Nate, Speaker 2 00:00:33 Dude, dude. Speaker 1 00:00:35 Yes. Speaker 2 00:00:37 Remember that comment one time where somebody said that you and I should just be friends and that I shouldn't really be on the podcast. Cause all I do is derail it and make it bad and then suggested that you and I should just go camping together instead as friends, Speaker 1 00:00:54 I do Speaker 2 00:00:55 Guess what, dude, we gotta go camping. Speaker 1 00:00:56 We got to go camping. This is the first, uh, camping trip, hopefully of many. Uh, thanks Nate for allowing me to participate in the art of Manliness chopping down the tree. Speaker 2 00:01:05 Yeah. Chopping down that tree. That was, that tree was hairy. It was not leaning the right way that we wanted it to fall, Speaker 1 00:01:11 But we made it fall the Speaker 2 00:01:12 Right direction. Did we learn any lessons from that? Speaker 1 00:01:15 Um, like, Speaker 2 00:01:19 Like Speaker 1 00:01:19 A little correction goes a long ways. Yeah. Speaker 2 00:01:21 Little correction goes a long way. I like it. I've been trying to think like, can I use, can I use any part of that experience in an analogy someday? And it hasn't quite come to me yet, but it will someday. Speaker 1 00:01:31 And, and when you're prepared and you're, and you're careful and within counsel, I mean, this is, this is all stuff that you're gonna see in Proverbs today. As we're talking about Speaker 2 00:01:39 This, wait, are we gonna be able to apply our, the lessons learned to the lesson today? Speaker 1 00:01:44 Oh, absolutely. Speaker 2 00:01:45 Yeah, baby. Speaker 1 00:01:45 Let's do it. In fact, if I, if I may please, I, I will just read one verse without counsel purposes are disappointed, but in the multitude of counselors, sh they are established and then that's what it took is we had to stop and talk with your dad and your brother. Very nice to meet both of them. And, and Dave, was it Dave? It was Dave, right? Yeah. Speaker 2 00:02:09 Baby Speaker 1 00:02:10 And Speaker 2 00:02:10 Climbing the tree, Speaker 1 00:02:11 Climbing the tree and putting the straps on things. And we had to look at it and say, where, where do you think we should cut? How do you think we should do it? Where should we put our supports? And maybe, maybe just one of us doing this on our own. It, it would be like the guy that the, the tree swings backward and flings 'em up in the air, but <laugh> has Speaker 2 00:02:27 Video was great, Speaker 1 00:02:29 But, but having a multitude of councils there as we're discussing this and bouncing ideas past each other, you know, it ended up falling the way it needed to fall. So good job, Nate. Speaker 2 00:02:38 Good job, everybody. Good job. So Solomon Speaker 1 00:02:41 Solomon is super wise. I'm excited to be talking about him today. Uh, we are doing Proverbs and Ecclesiastes, both books written by him. And, and if we have some time that that's the debate, do we, do we slide song of Solomon into this? Or do we pull it out in a bonus episode? Maybe, maybe we just try to slide it all into one episode. Speaker 2 00:03:02 Let's get it in. Speaker 1 00:03:04 So the, these are the writings of Solomon and Solomon. If there's one thing Solomon's famous for, it is wisdom. Speaker 2 00:03:12 What wisdom, wisdom or women Speaker 1 00:03:15 That's if there's, what did you say? Speaker 2 00:03:18 <laugh> Speaker 1 00:03:19 If there's one thing it's wisdom. Oh, oh, wisdom chopping, chopping the baby in half and him and like, oh, who's the mother. And, and like this guy, but Sheba not be Sheba. Now. Now I'm throwing all David references in here, queen of Sheba coming in to go see the wisest guy of all right. Yeah. So if it's one thing it's, it's wisdom. If it's two, you hit the, you hit the, the nail on the head there. Speaker 2 00:03:43 Wisdom Speaker 1 00:03:43 Man, women, women. And so David is using his knowledge of women to describe wisdom, Speaker 2 00:03:51 Solomon Speaker 1 00:03:52 David. Oh, did I just now David, get outta my mind. Solomon Shlomo Speaker 2 00:03:58 Shao. Really? Speaker 1 00:03:59 Yeah. That's his name? Schlomo. Yeah. And they translate it as Solomon Speaker 2 00:04:05 Schlomo Uhhuh. Speaker 1 00:04:07 That's the, that's the Hebrew for Solomon Speaker 2 00:04:11 Sounds cooler to me, Speaker 1 00:04:12 Shlomo Speaker 2 00:04:14 Shalom, Shabbat Speaker 1 00:04:15 Shalom that comes from Shalom. Speaker 2 00:04:17 Ha ha. Speaker 1 00:04:18 And, and you have to wonder, you know, um, here here's, here's, here's a theory I'm gonna float out here real quick and, and this will be my last reference of David, maybe Speaker 2 00:04:30 <laugh> Speaker 1 00:04:32 Okay. David David creates a breach with EIAH correct. Now in Israel. If, if a a brother dies, then it is the responsibility of his brother or the next of kin to raise seed up to him. Now David creates this breach, Uriah dies, and the baby that he created, this breach with dies early on as well. And he's very distraught. And, and I wonder if David in having a second son with Baba is not raising seed up to Uriah and trying to heal that breach in a sense. And he names his son, Solomon Shlomo from Shalom peace. And, and maybe that was his piece in trying to heal this breach in trying to establish this line through Uriah. Now think about this when, when Saul had fallen aside and, and kept trying to kill David, and then the Lord takes it away from Saul and places. The line on David. Speaker 1 00:05:43 Well, now this new line, David had lots of sons, firstborn sons, all sorts of sons that should have taken the throne. Solomon is on the very young side of things. He, he's not, he's a very young when David dies, he shouldn't be the king, but I wonder in naming him peace, if that's where he's trying to find his peace and making this right to EIAH by raising seed up to EIAH and giving the throne to EIAH, it's now going to be through Uriah's line, that, that the kingdom is going to rest. This is Uriah's child that David gave to Bashiva to raise up in his stead because of the breach that he caused there. It just makes me wonder not okay. I like, I like that. That's interesting. Yeah. Something to something to ponder. Okay. So yeah. Um, Solomon very, very famous for wisdom and very famous for women and, uh, both play a very dominant role throughout these three books. Speaker 1 00:06:48 And Proverbs is one of those books that really spoke to me as a child. And I would encourage any young man, any young woman, any young person to read it because it's written as Solomon counseling, his children, like I want you to learn wisdom in your youth. Uh, these are some things I hope that you take away that try to be wise. So it resonated with me and, and trying to figure out life and, and how I was supposed to behave and what I should be doing. Let's uh, let's, let's dive into this. Okay. I think most of us are very familiar with Proverbs three, uh, five through what was it? Five through seven. This, this is the verse that my grandma had stitched on a pillow that she had S was her favorite verse. My, my mom taught us all this when we were little kids. Speaker 1 00:07:37 Yeah. Trust in the Lord with all th heart and lean. Not until they don't understanding. Now that's powerful coming from Solomon who was extremely wise and how tempting would it be for him to lean on his own understanding because he understood a lot, but he says, trust in the Lord and not your own understanding. And this is a whole book about wisdom, and that's the beginning of wisdom. And he's gonna say that a few times here that the beginning of wisdom is the fear of God. And we've talked about fear in this podcast before, and maybe it deserves just a quick reference. There's this idea of fear is not that you are terrified of God. Well, fear is coming from awe and awe is the same root for awesome and awful. And it's also the same with terror. Terrible. Terrific. And, and this idea that this same word is used both in a sense of, of respect and admiration, but also terror and fear and how it can be both at the same time. Speaker 1 00:08:51 And I think that's, that's powerful. We were talking a little bit about this before we even got in here, Nate, we fear a lot of us fear snakes, rattlesnakes or spiders, because we feel like they, they can bite us and, and we won't notice it and it'll be too late and then it could potentially harm us or kill us. And, and that fear causes a healthy reaction in the sense that we try to avoid them because we respect that it can have power over us. And you take that to God, part of awe and inspiration in how terrific and awesome he is and awesome being full of awe and awful meaning full of our is that he is a power greater than ours, that, that inspires this admiration, but also a healthy level of respect in that I know God has the power to create, to destroy that he can exalt me. Speaker 1 00:09:52 He can destroy me. It, it would behoove me a healthy reaction to respect what he has to say and learn from him. And for Solomon. That's where the beginning of knowledge starts is, is fear of God admiring him and having a healthy reaction to his power, to respect what he says and put that first, even as smart as you think you are, as smart as Solomon was historically speaking, he says, lean not upon your own understanding, trust God. So as hopefully, that gives you even a little bit more perspective coming from who it's coming from and what he's saying, but that's the beginning of knowledge for him. And in all, they wise acknowledge him and he shall direct thigh paths. And that's where we usually stop. But I really like these, these verses following here, be not wise in line own eyes. So here's, here's Solomon the wise saying don't be wise, fear the Lord and depart from evil. It shall be health in th Naval and marrow to th bones honor the Lord with th substance and with the first fruits of all line increase, going back to this idea of fear. And, and you see this in Malachi, where are the tides? The storehouses bring me your ties and prove me here with honor me with the first fruits of your substance. If you fear God, keep his commandments, give him his due, give him his respect. We can't fear God and withhold. What's his, that's part of that healthy relationship of inspiration and awe. Speaker 2 00:11:39 What I love is the flip side of that too. If you love me, keep my commandments. Speaker 1 00:11:44 Yes. But to try to take this, uh, even one step further, uh, going back to who the Lord loves and, and here and reread it in Proverbs who the Lord loves he Chasins oh yeah, baby. And the, the idea that correction is, is important. And really you talk about the fear of the Lord. And then you talk about correction and chastisement. And so much of Proverbs is going to be, the wise person loves correction, loves to hear where he's wrong, loves to hear where things aren't right, because that gives them the opportunity to improve, to realize where they need to change and to, to make better. And it gives them wisdom. And by giving them wisdom, it empowers them. And so this, again, almost going back to this, the beginning of wisdom is the fear of God. Well also the fear of God is correction. Speaker 1 00:12:41 And being able to see where you've made a mistake or being able to see where things aren't going well and take that where the foolish person refuses to listen to counsel refuses, to hear correction in their mind. They're right. And they don't want to hear anything more about it. They just put their fingers in their ears and LA LA, LA, LA LA, and you never see that course correction. And, and then they remain foolish ever more. And I love how God talks about wisdom and, and maybe we should, uh, take this and, and kind of branch off of this a little bit. When we talk about wisdom, he talks about creating the world. And when God talks about creating the world, he's, he's almost making it sound like he didn't even, like there was wisdom was something that was, uh, a greater power or something that was, was what was creating the world for God. Speaker 1 00:13:33 This is a Proverbs, uh, a same chapter that we were in actually chapter three, the Lord by wisdom have founded the earth by understanding ha established the heavens by his knowledge, the depths are broken up and the clouds drop down the, do my son let, not them depart from nine eyes, keep sound, wisdom and discretion. So if we look at Solomon and what he's saying here, what makes God, God is his wisdom by his wisdom. He can do this by his wisdom. He can do that. And, and this is something that Joseph Smith, uh, taught a lot with the restoration of the gospel. And he said that God is God over all things and has subjected all things below his feet, because he has knowledge by, by his knowledge, as he subjected everything below him. And that we cannot gain salvation without gaining knowledge. And as fast as we gain knowledge, we gain salvation. Speaker 1 00:14:33 And the only way to be like God is to learn what God knows and to become wise. And so this, this kind of correlates with what Solomon is teaching us about wisdom and the value and the importance of wisdom. And he describes wisdom characteristically as being a woman. And it's key to know that he's personifying these attributes because it helps us understand when, when he starts talking about a foolish woman. So let me, let me just pause and read Proverbs. This is chapter nine, verse 13, a foolish woman is clamor, uh, is clamorous. She is simple and no with nothing for, she sits in the door of her house on the seat of a high place of a city to call passengers who go right on their ways. And, and it seems pretty harsh to be talking about women. That way, particularly in this case is saying a foolish woman is like this. Speaker 1 00:15:29 And in my mind, as I read these verses it, it almost, it almost seems very unfair. Like I, I, I can't help, but thinking of, uh, reading this from a feminist perspective and saying, look it, the Bible is all full of these masculine pronouns. Bless is the man that does this. Bless is man, to do that. We, we want this to be gender neutral. We want to hear a little bit about women in the Bible too. And then all of a sudden you get Solomon dropping this in here. A foolish woman is clamorous. She is simple and no, if nothing and, and I can't help, but think, oh, whoa, whoa, whoa, you can have your pronouns back. Put that back to a masculine version. I don't want to hear it just seems harsh that this is the reference that you get dropping in, in referring to a one harsh. Speaker 1 00:16:10 And, and as I was reading this, I've, I've realized this has nothing to do with women. Just as wisdom is personified as a woman, this isn't saying a foolish woman is like this. This is personifying foolishness as a woman in contrast to wisdom. Does that make sense? Yes. And so now when you start reading some of these verses in Proverbs, that so many times are unfairly read, like, oh, if a foolish woman is it's better to dwell in a tent than with an angry and contentious woman. It's, it's not, it's not saying that women are terrible. It's saying foolishness being personified in a woman and contrast to wisdom, being personified as a woman. And when we start personifying, for example, wisdom as a woman, I wanna read a few verses and you tell me what wisdom really personifies. This is Proverbs going back again to chapter three. Speaker 1 00:17:10 And when we're talking about God, creating the world verse 19, the Lord by wisdom have founded the earth. Now I'm gonna pause. Think of John in the beginning was the word. And the word was with God and the word by God, by the power of the word created the world. So who created the world? It was, it was God by Christ by using Jesus, right? And here, it's saying God by wisdom. So you're almost getting this, this, this similarity saying that wisdom is like Christ, go back to verse 18. She, again, referring to wisdom is a tree of life to them that lay hold on her. So when we're talking about wisdom, even though it's personified as a woman symbolically, you're talking about the power of the word, the word being Christ, the power through which the, the world was created. And you're talking about the tree of life, even though these are feminine characteristics, you're describing Christ. Speaker 1 00:18:24 And, and it's almost interesting if you're talking about wisdom as, as a, as a woman being compared to Christ, you can almost look at foolishness and, and draw comparisons with the devil. And so when we start talking about the contrast between a wise woman and a foolish woman, to me, this, this gets very interesting because it says the wise woman or a wisdom prepares a meal, she takes the animals and she prepares the animal and she prepares a feast. And then she calls to all to the whys, to the foolishness, to, or to everybody in the city saying, come and feast with me a again, where do you read about a feast where everybody's invited to, this is another parallel talking about Christ and the bride groom come and the feast at the end of the world, right? And the feast is calling to everyone, not just the whys, but also the foolish that everybody who will listen and really the whys are anyone that is willing to listen. Speaker 1 00:19:28 This Solomon's gonna go over here over and over and over again. And here, come, come in and take this meal and eat it for free. Now, when he talks about a foolish woman, he's also gonna talk about a feast and, and talking about feasting. But the, the feast of the foolish woman is very different because now the foolish is saying, go and steal bread, go and take from somebody else, the feast. And, and I think these differences are very critical because in both cases, whether you're a spousing wisdom or whether you're a spousing foolishness, you're talking about a free meal. And, and what is food typically, a symbol of in the Bible man does not live by the, by, by bread alone. But by the word of God, when you're talking about famine, you're talking about an apostasy, a lack of the word of God. Speaker 1 00:20:25 We're talking about mana. God is feeding the people with his words, with his wisdom, with, with the word of God and the word being again, Christ this imagery again, I mean, look at the sacrament. And you're partaking of this food, the word of God, the revelation, I, it's a very powerful imagery throughout all of the scriptures, but in both cases, the, the, the meal is being offered for free, right? Whether it's wisdom, who's prepared the meal and you go, and she's giving it to you for free, or whether it's foolishness the saying, go and steal it a again, it's a free meal, right? So what are the differences? What's the difference between getting a free meal from wisdom or a free male from sonified foolishness? What do you got Nate? What do you think? Nah, Speaker 2 00:21:12 I think you're on a roll. Keep going. Speaker 1 00:21:14 The, the critical difference is wisdom is offering the free meal where foolishness is telling you to take the free meal. And, and think about how many times the scriptures say blessed are those who wait on the Lord. And when we're talking about knowledge, where else do we read in the scriptures about knowledge being offered to man, where you can wait on the Lord for further light and information, you can wait on the Lord for his wisdom or for his knowledge, or you can go and take it yourself and steal it. Speaker 2 00:21:56 And I do know that one. Speaker 1 00:21:58 What do you got Nate? Speaker 2 00:21:59 But that's because you already told me this in the car. Speaker 1 00:22:02 <laugh> no, you, you would, you, you Speaker 2 00:22:04 Would've. I would have got this anyways, though. You are right. Thank you. I appreciate you acknowledging that. I also would've got this cuz you kind of just threw a, a softball over here, but yes, the garden of Eden Speaker 1 00:22:16 Very much. So this idea of go and steal something that you didn't earn and, and isn't that how God got his knowledge is just go take it and, and take that knowledge or wait for God to give you the knowledge. It's, it's an interesting contrast. And you see the contrast even more when you're not talking about food anymore. Let's go to where, where Solomon's talking about wisdom. He, he refers to wisdom as your sister and, and that's kind of a weird way to refer to it. Okay? Proverbs chapter four for sake, her not. And she shall preserve the love her and she shall keep the wisdom is the principle thing. And he's, you're encouraged to love wisdom, and we're gonna go into Proverbs chapter seven. Speaker 1 00:23:06 My son keep my words and lay up my commandments with the, keep my commandments and live. And my law as the apple of th eye, bind them up upon my fingers, write them upon the table of line, heart, say unto unto wisdom, thou art, my sister, and call understanding th kins woman. And, and that seems strange to me that here, the relationship between us and the Lord has always been defined as a marital relationship and the bride and the groom married them. And, and here we started off take wisdom, love her. You're like, oh, this sounds like a spousal relationship. And we've been talking about wisdom as a symbol of the Lord and this idea of a covenant relationship. But then why is he saying, say to wisdom, thwart my sister and call understanding th kin's woman. And, and we see it makes it even it, it makes it even more interesting when we contrast that as we keep reading in chapter seven, that they may keep the, from the strange woman from the stranger, which flattereth with her words for, at the window of my house, I look through my casement and behold among the simple ones I discerned among the youths, a young man void of understanding, passing through the street, near her corner. Speaker 1 00:24:33 And he went the way to her house. So say to wisdom, you're my sister. So that it'll keep you from having an affair with the other woman. And so one woman is wisdom. The other woman here being personified as foolishness. He's saying, say that she's my sister, so that you don't end up sleeping with foolishness. And you're like, wait, why does that help? If I were to say wisdom, you are my bride. You're my wife. I can see that keeping me from sleeping with another woman. Who's sleeping with foolishness. But if I am saying to wisdom, you're my sister. That seems like it's giving me a little bit more flexibility. Like, Hey, I, I I'm family with you, but not necessarily committed to you in that way. I can go now and be with foolishness. So as strange as this seems, we've gotta understand why Solomon is referring to wisdom as a sister. And, and what I see here in this sense is that Solomon is quoting Abraham when Abraham goes into Egypt. And when Abraham goes into, in, in, into the, the, this, where is he going into? Speaker 2 00:25:46 Isn't he going? Um, into not Somalia into Canan. Right? Speaker 1 00:25:53 Yeah. And, and he says both times to the king, she is my sister. Yes. Right, right. Speaker 2 00:26:00 Yes. Speaker 1 00:26:01 And, and so we can, we can do award study of this word sister and see what it means. And, and nine times outta 10, it always means sister. But what's nice is when you look exactly how Solomon uses this word, because Solomon wrote Proverbs Ecclesiastes and song of Solomon. If we look just at the way Solomon uses it and disregard how all other biblical authors use it, it gives us a different tone. So if we go to song of Solomon Solomon song, chapter four, uh, your, your favorite book, Nate Speaker 2 00:26:42 SOS Speaker 1 00:26:43 <laugh> first nine thou has ravished my heart, my sister, my spouse, right? And then he says this in three or four other cases where he says my sister, my spouse, um, we, we see it again in verse eight, come with me from Lebanon, my spouse, from me with Lebanon, look to the top. And, and this idea that he's referring to his spouse as his sister is, is going back to Abraham. It's going back to Jacob saying not, not just is it your spouse, but you should protect that relationship. You should, you should almost keep it secret. You should. It it's, it's kind of a, a sensitive way of describing this relationship. So it's interesting the way that Solomon uses this word, sister, and he's applying that to wisdom, and he's gonna contrast it to foolishness, which is not a spouse. In fact foolishness. If, if we keep reading in, in, uh, Proverbs chapter seven and then I'll, and then I'll make our, our correlation, then maybe we'll read a couple other cool Proverbs here. Speaker 1 00:27:59 When he, this, this, this foolish man, the simple use discerned the use of young man void of understanding, passing through the street, near her corner. And he went into her house and the Twilight in the evening in the black and the dark of night, uh, verse 10 and behold there met him, a woman with an attire of a Harlet and subtle of heart. She is loud and stubborn. Her feet abide, not in her house. Now is she without now in the street and life and weight at every corner. So she caught him and kissed him. And with an I prudent face said unto him, I have peace offering with me this day. Have I prayed my vows? Therefore come I fourth came I fourth to meet the dignity leap, to seek the face. And I have found the, I have decked my bed with the covering of tapestry with carved works and with fine TW linen of Egypt. Speaker 1 00:28:52 I have perfumed my bed with Mer alos and cinnamon. Come let us take our fill of love until the morning. Let us solace ourselves with loves for the good man is not at home. He is gone a long journey. He has taken a bag of money with him and he will come home at the day, appointed with her much fair speech. She caused him to yield and she flattered, uh, flattering of her lips. She forced him. So going back to this contrast between the woman of wisdom, the woman of foolishness and what's happening here is foolishness. Again is encouraging you to steal or take that, which doesn't belong to you. Here is a bride with a husband. She's living in her husband's house with her husband's bed with her. Husband's fine. Egyptian linen with her husband's money that he's bought perfumes. It's his work. It's his labors. Speaker 1 00:29:56 It's his everything. And she is encouraging the young man to take. What's not his to take her husband's stuff to take her in something that's not going to last something that can't last versus wisdom. That again is encouraging you to love to say, this is my sister. This is not something that's just, I, I can have it all of a sudden one night, and then it's gonna be gone. This is a relationship that's going to be taking some courting. It's gonna be done appropriately. There's gonna be the proper meals that are associated. It's gonna be the proper rights, the proper ceremonies. And, and even though both look the same where both are going to end in a, in a form of intimacy, one is gonna be just a quick stealing it in the night, taking that, which doesn't belong to you where the other is going to be a more maturing process. That's gonna be taking development. That's gonna be taking a lot more effort. Is, is this making sense? Am I going down a yes. Speaker 1 00:31:05 And, and I wanna take that right back to the same beginning of the tree of life. And so many times has the fruit of the tree of life been compared to sexual sin. This idea, and, and Nate you've, you've said this, and I think it's such a great analogy. The idea that intimacy intercourse sex is something that's very appropriate. Something that's very desirable, but it's also something that is worth waiting for done in the right way. At the right time with the right person, it brings fulfillment. It brings divinity, and it's the power of God to create life and to share in, in a moment, that's is very godlike. But if you don't wait, if you want to do it quick, if you want to take something, instead of waiting for something to be given to you, you are stealing it and it cheapens it. Now all of a sudden you're, you're, you're stealing that fruit and it's the same act, but it can't bring the same fulfillment. Sure. That might be how God did it, but it's certainly not how God did it. Amen. Can you maybe make all of that more intelligent than I did? Speaker 2 00:32:28 No, I I'm telling you this is great. You're you are a you're in the flow. Let's keep going. Speaker 1 00:32:34 One more note talking about taking that fruit or, or where we went with this. Nobody can replace a relationship that you're establishing with God, right? When we're trying to, to learn of God and be like, God, and we are, we're doing our scripture study and we're not just reading his words, but we're trying to listen back for him to speak to us. When we're saying our prayers, when we're on our knees, all of this is taking a lot of work to try to do it the right way. And nothing is going to replace the, the time that you spent on your knees, the, the impressions that you get, the feelings that you have and that relationship that you develop over time. That's not something that you can just steal on the cheap, like the foolish woman. Who's offering you to go take somebody else's food. Speaker 1 00:33:26 You can't rely on your parents' testimony. You can't just rely on what you hear in, in podcasts or in books or in things that you're learning. At some point in time that the, the tires have to meet the pavement. You have to do the work, and you have to feel that conviction and you have to learn and establish that relationship for yourself. I love what Solomon's saying here about wisdom and knowledge and understanding. And I think it's so applicable and it was applicable then, but even so much more now, so many times we want an answer right now and we can't wait to get it, or, or we want the success that our parents had. We want that big home. We want that job that pays the big salary. We want the cars, we want, whatever it has right away without waiting for it. And this isn't something new. Speaker 1 00:34:22 This even going back to, to Brigham young in the Plains. He said, when the saints came over, they didn't understand the hardship that the saints that lived in Utah and, and had their crops perishing every year and had to eat leather to try to survive and, and rock super, whatever they had to do to try to just survive. And then they finally get to a place where they're comfortable. And then the new saints come in and they see their comfort and they want it right away without realizing the price they had to pay to get where they were at. And I think today, so many of us growing up, we demand to be like, God, we demand to know, to understand without necessarily paying the dues, going through the process and not waiting for the Lord to bestow it upon us, but wanting to take it right away. Speaker 1 00:35:10 It's a great, great correlation. And the, a living in the information age, I think is only accelerated that because we look down on our phones and right away, it gives us an answer. We can find just about anything at our fingertips. So whenever the answer is wait, we really have a hard time accepting that. And, and I don't think we have the same mental toughness or grit that, that we necessarily need to have to sustain us while we wait for that and, and fill in the blanks and fill in the pieces, then be able to get the entire, the entire picture. Speaker 2 00:35:43 Love it. Let's keep going. Speaker 1 00:35:44 All right. Maybe what we should do is, is just hone in on a few of these verses. Speaker 2 00:35:49 Okay. Speaker 1 00:35:51 And, and just kind of glean some of this wisdom from Solomon, cuz he is not just talking about wisdom, but he also talks about the importance of, of work. I'm just gonna, I'm just gonna read out a few verses that I kinda like this is Proverbs chapter 12, verse 23, a prudent man, conceal with knowledge, but the heart of fools proclaim with foolishness. How quick are we to do you see people spreading the false news or, or, or maybe not the whole story or taking something and trying to make a big deal out of it or, or looking at click bait or even news that will put a headline. That's not entirely accurate just to try to grab your attention. And if you go and you read the whole article, you're saying, okay, I see what that says, but how many of us actually take time to read the whole article? Instead of understanding it, we take that headline and now we spread it out to 10 more people. And then it just goes like wild. And are we being like a foolish person who, who spreads noise abroad or a prudent man who can see lift knowledge Speaker 1 00:37:00 Going solid? Speaker 2 00:37:01 All right, what else? Speaker 1 00:37:03 This is chapter 13, the soul of the sled, the CTH and half nothing. But the soul of the diligent shall be made fat. I, I think going back to that same deal, wanting everything right away, the soul of the Slugger desireth and you spend all day daydreaming about what it could be like and how life could be, or, or how comfortable or how, how, how much you want that right now. But if you never take time to stop and make that a reality, and that's gonna be the difference, the Slugger is going to sit there and dream, but the diligent he's going to get it because he's not sitting around waiting for anybody to make it Speaker 2 00:37:45 Like it. I like it. Let's keep going. Speaker 1 00:37:47 Verse 20. He, that wath with wise, men shall be wise love, but a companion of fools shall be destroyed. Speaker 2 00:37:54 You become who you surround yourself with. Let's keep going. This. Speaker 1 00:37:57 This was probably one of the most important lessons I've ever learned, uh, in my life. If I could tell you one quick story. Speaker 2 00:38:04 Yeah, please. Speaker 1 00:38:05 I, I was at BYU, Idaho after high school, but before my mission and, and the girl invited me to island park, a cabin and a party they were having, and they were gonna spend the night there. And at the time at BYU, Idaho, it was against the school rules. It is probably still against the school rules rules. Speaker 2 00:38:23 I would imagine it still Speaker 1 00:38:24 Is. You can't be spending the night with girls. That's just, even if it wasn't against the school rules, that morally, that's just not a good thing to do. And, and so I, I told her, I'm not gonna spend the night. And she said, well, there's one other guy that's coming home. You can catch a ride home with him. So I, I, I reluctantly agreed. We went out to the party and, and there was, there's a group of girls. There's a group of guys. And when it came time to go, it was just me. And one of the guy that came home and as we were riding home, this guy was a return missionary. He was older than me. And, and he gave me some of the wisest counsel I've ever heard along these same lines. He said, look, following the gospel is easy doing what's right versus doing what's wrong. Speaker 1 00:39:04 It's no, it's no big deal. He said, the critical thing is, is who you choose to hang out with. And when you go to get married, find a wife, that's going to inspire the best in you. That's gonna inspire you to be the best person that you can be. And if you can do that, then you're gonna be with somebody who's always driving you to a better place. Then that resonated so hard with me. Cuz I, I thought back in my youth and all of the stupid things I did, I did because of the people I was hanging out with and, and all the things I meant. I, I wish I could take back or we do. It was just when you get carried away with friends, hanging out with the wrong crowds, sometimes you get involved doing the wrong decisions and, and compromising where you shouldn't have compromised. But if you chose solid people to hang out with and particular in marriage where you're gonna be spending the rest of your life with this person, find someone who inspires the best out of you. And don't hang out with someone who's gonna enable more foolishness and drag you down. Speaker 2 00:40:05 Amen. Let's keep going. Speaker 1 00:40:06 All right. Moving on the simple believeth, every word, the prudent man. Looketh well to his going see for Speaker 2 00:40:15 Everybody that thinks I don't like him just cuz I carry my, I have a, a very like skeptic look on my face at all times. It's not that I don't like you. Cause I do probably like you. For some reason, I'm just suspicious. Speaker 1 00:40:30 It's good to be suspicious. Don't believe everything. You hear. Take a minute to try to vet what you're hearing and understand it. Don't just spread it abroad. Make sure you're understanding the context of what's happening. Speaker 2 00:40:41 Some good stuff. Speaker 1 00:40:43 Let's go a couple more. Uh, correction is grievous unto him that for sake it the way and he, that hats proof shall die. This is, this is very typical of a lot. That's happening here in Proverbs. If you take rep proof, if you take correction, you're going to find life you're going to live. If you hate rep proof, if you hate correction, it's not gonna go well. The heart of him that hath understanding seeketh knowledge, the mouth of fools FEA on foolishness and the, the way of the slothful man is a hedge of horns, a hedge of thorns. But the way of the righteous has made plain. And then here, what we were talking about earlier without counsel purposes are disappointed, but in the multitude of counselors, they are established. The heart of the righteous study is to answer, but the mouth of the wicked poor without evil things, uh, take time to think about what you're gonna say, how you're gonna respond. Don't just Joe, just give a gut reaction and say a bunch of nonsense that you're gonna regret later on. Speaker 2 00:41:48 Like it, Speaker 1 00:41:49 The Lord is far from the wicked, but here at the prayer of the righteous, uh, he, that refused the instruction despite this, his own soul. But he that under, um, beareth reprove. Gith understanding, uh, here's a really good one about patience. He, that is slow to anger is better than the mighty. He, that ruleth his spirit than he, that take at the city. Speaker 2 00:42:14 Love it. Speaker 1 00:42:16 Okay. Speaker 2 00:42:16 Can we get into Ecclesiastes? Speaker 1 00:42:19 Yeah. Speaker 2 00:42:19 All right. We gotta keep this thing moving. Let's do this. All Speaker 1 00:42:22 Right. Let me, let me Speaker 2 00:42:22 Proverbs are great. Speaker 1 00:42:24 Let me, let me, let me do one last little proverb and, and one cool little thing about Proverbs and then Ecclesiastes on. Okay. Speaker 2 00:42:32 All right. All right. Wanna make sure we get to some SOS tonight. Speaker 1 00:42:36 Okay. The Slugger will not plow by reason of the cold. Therefore he shall beg in the harvest and have nothing. Don't find excuses to not do your work. Find an excuse to get it done. Okay. Okay. And then this is cool because it's poetry at its finest and Hebrew. This is the seven deadly sins. I don't think we can go through Proverbs without reading the seven deadly sins. Speaker 2 00:42:55 Oh yeah. Of course. Speaker 1 00:42:56 Is proverb six verse six. What's in Speaker 2 00:42:58 The box. All right. What? <laugh> Speaker 1 00:42:59 Verse 16. These six things that the Lord hate and you like me? Wait a second. I thought there were seven deadly sins. Why does it say these six things that the Lord hate? Yay. Seven. Aren't an abomination unto him. So this is the cool thing about Hebrew poetry. You don't have explanation points, but what you do have is a way to build on, right? These six things, six is going to be parallel with the number seven now, but instead of just parallel and equal to it's parallel, but at an elevated form. And you're gonna see that with the other, um, what is it? Verb these six things that the Lord hate. Now look at what's parallel to hate are an abomination to him. So an abomination is parallel to hate, but it's an ABO it's, it's a parallel taking it one step higher. So what's he saying? It's not just that he doesn't like these it's that he really doesn't like these. Speaker 2 00:43:56 Okay. I think I know 'em but keep going. Speaker 1 00:43:59 Oh, I don't know if we necessarily have to go through all of them. Speaker 2 00:44:01 We got, we got a slothfulness Speaker 1 00:44:04 Uh, yeah, proud the, the proud look of a lying tongue, the hands that shed, innocent blood, a heart Theise of wicked imaginations. Yeah. Feet that we swift and running a mischief, a false witness. Yeah. Um, that, uh, that speaketh lies. And he, that Soth discord among that brethren, my son keep their father's commandment and forsake, not the law of their mother. Speaker 2 00:44:26 And what's what's with like gluttony and lawfulness and adultery and all that stuff. I thought those were the seven deadly sins. I know. Right. Wait, did, did the, uh, Catholic church like kind of reprise their own seven deadly sins. Cause I promise that that like, uh, there there's a whole other set of seven deadly sins. Maybe it's the Catholics that maybe, maybe it's Catholicism that gave us a different batch because there was like gluttony lawfulness, for sure. Um, yeah. Like adultery. Speaker 1 00:45:05 Yeah. I know what you you're talking about. Yeah. Cuz it, I mean, movies have been made. Speaker 2 00:45:09 Oh yeah. Speaker 1 00:45:10 Uh, the, the, the Glu knee and, and pride and yeah. Speaker 2 00:45:14 Pride Speaker 1 00:45:15 Adultery. Yep. Or the lust I think is Lu what they're Speaker 2 00:45:17 Saying. That's what is lust. Speaker 1 00:45:19 Yeah. But as I read these, a proud look of a lying tongue, the hands that shed innocent blood, a heart that Devis the wicked imaginations. Speaker 2 00:45:27 I mean, these ones sound cooler than the other ones. Feet Speaker 1 00:45:29 That be swift and running to mischief. Speaker 2 00:45:31 Yeah. That's a great one. Speaker 1 00:45:33 A false witness that speak with lies. Speaker 2 00:45:35 Mischiefs. Just a cool like way to, to scratch. Just mischief general mischief. All right. So, so those, these are different seven deadly sins than what's in the box. So alright. Let's keep going. Speaker 1 00:45:49 Yeah. As I, as we look at it, those are all, those are seven, right? I'm gonna look this Speaker 2 00:45:53 Up. I'm gonna look this up later. Speaker 1 00:45:56 Okay. But I, I, I do love how they, they escalate to it. Six things. Yay. Seven hate yay. And abomination. So it's, it's kind of neat how they do that. All right. Ecclesiastes, we kind of talked about Ecclesiastes. I think the value of an Ecclesiastes is looking at Solomon, reflecting on his life and realizing that it was all vanity under the sun. He, he kept looking for happiness in any way, but the Lord, and he said, I, I will find it in wisdom. And as much as he praises wisdom and Ecclesiastes, he finds out that his whole quest for wisdom, without God was foolishness, because he's never wise enough to learn how to resurrect himself. He's never wise enough to know how to live forever and prevent death wisdom without God is empty. It's hollow. And it's a vanity under the sun and he's gonna go through wealth as a vanity. Speaker 1 00:46:57 It doesn't do anything you're gonna die. And then what, how, how is that money going to save you? How are you gonna ever be able to pay for your soul with the money that you've accrued? Cuz it's all gone. It was all vanity under the sun. Then he went to trying to find happiness through power, through wealth, uh, through lust. And he talks about all the women that he would go. And he even talks about engaging in every Carnel desire and not withholding anything and all the foods and all the pleasurable things and the palaces and the wealth and all the, that he would throw in there. And he found that it was hollow that it, that it didn't give him any joy. It didn't give him any satisfaction. And as he writes about going through this quest and going through everything that he goes through, he realizes that all of it was foolishness. There is nothing in this life that can ever offer a lasting satisfaction that won't fail you in the end. You cannot find happiness outside of God. And, and that's really about all I wanna say about Ecclesiastes Speaker 2 00:48:05 And it was also my brother's game or tag name. So just imagine getting freaking domed in halo and then just seeing that it was ecclesia assses that killed. You could all the shout out to Ecclesiastes, yuck Norris and ecclesia. Assses doing work. All right. <laugh> now it's time. I man, I should have done some sort of a production production buildup for this what's what's Morris code for SOS. Is it like Speaker 1 00:48:37 Three dashes, three dots, three dot Speaker 2 00:48:38 Three dashes dashes. That's what I'm saying is like I needed to get like a songs of Solomon Speaker 1 00:48:46 Songs of Solomon Speaker 2 00:48:48 SOS. Apropo Speaker 1 00:48:50 Well, Hey, Hey. Uh, I guess right before we dip into song of Solomon, one, one last correlation I did wanna make between wisdom as a woman and foolishness as a woman, gay wisdom was supposed to be a relationship established with the covenant, a lasting relationship where foolishness was gonna be this one night, stand in the dark when the husband was away. Right. Speaker 2 00:49:16 Okay. Speaker 1 00:49:17 You can't sneak in to heaven. It requires that you walk the covenant path, you have to establish covenants. And there's a lot of people that do a lot of great things and there are a lot of good, but to me, this is the importance of the priesthood being restored and the ability to establish those covenants, to create that lasting relationship. It's not good that you just try to, to sneak in and do really good and do these good things. You have to go through the ritual. You have to go through the ordinances. You have to perform that, that covenant, it's it Solomon's teaching us that wisdom. The path to God, the path to righteousness is a covenant path. That's that's I guess all I wanted to say on that. Okay. Speaker 2 00:50:03 Now beep beep Speaker 1 00:50:04 Beep beep Speaker 4 00:50:05 Beep beep beep Speaker 1 00:50:09 I, I think you got your dots and your dashes crossed. I think it's three dash is three dots, is it? Or did Speaker 2 00:50:14 I have it backwards? Nah, man, you got that backwards. <laugh> dude, come on, da isn't that SOS? Speaker 1 00:50:22 I don't know. They're all repeating and, and, and right after each other, so Speaker 2 00:50:27 Or Boros. Okay, here we go. Speaker 1 00:50:30 Song of Solomon. I will say this on song of Solomon for this podcast episode, song of Solomon is great for two reasons. Number one, that's taking the relationship between God and Israel and, and representing it between the relationship between a man and his wife and beloved and, and showing that intimacy and that care in a sense that God loves his people. And number two, the value of song of Solomon is because it also shows the tenderness and affection between a man and his wife and the love that should exist that way. And, and that's kind of where we get the value is some of that should be valued for what it is and understanding that God loves us as a man, loves his wife. We can get into that with a little bit more detail, but for this episode, I think that's all that needs to be said for, for song of Solomon Speaker 2 00:51:25 And, and for whatever it's worth. We've talked about this too, about the bride groom and the bride, you know, we've, we've definitely talked a little bit about why there is very intimate, um, symbolism between God and his covenant people. So the, the idea of this, I don't feel like is new or foreign or something that we haven't talked about to this point song of Solomon is, you know, maybe a little bit more explicit in, in detailing that than, you know what I mean, than some of the, some of the other references made like in the new Testament and such, but Speaker 1 00:51:58 Yeah, exactly. And, and it, and it makes, it brings a little bit of life to the new Testament. When you're talking about the, the people that are waiting for the bride room to come, why are they waiting for a bride groom to come? Why is there a feast at the end that we're waiting for? What is this feast about and what is this relationship between God and his people that, and it's always kind of there looming in the background, this idea that Israel is a woman and, and where is your bill of divorcement and when have I put you off and you are my bride, but it's, it's, it's a little bit more explicitly stated Speaker 2 00:52:29 Here. So what we're gonna do is, um, yeah, we want to at least just kind of leave that J just so, just so there's a very, you know, very broad, um, you know, understanding a little bit of still the importance of why the book is important. Um, just so you know, though, we will be releasing probably at the same time as this a separate, you know, five, 10 minute, um, kind of really actual discussion on song Solomon because there really is very important and beautiful imagery that is a little bit more mature and, you know, is it, it's, it's talking about intimate things, but the direct correlation with those and, and covenant making and a lot of the symbolism, even of, you know, the temple and various things like that. So, but so we will be releasing that as a separate thing. We just wanted to separate the two in case you wanted to you as the listener just wanted to be, um, whether you even wanna listen to it or not. But if so, just to make sure that you're like, okay, cool. I'm, I'm listening to this in an environment that, you know, I can be, you know, we can be talking about more mature things yeah. Or who you're listening with, you know what I mean? Speaker 1 00:53:41 And, and just a heads up. Yeah. So when you do choose to listen that if you choose to listen to it, understand that this does go into a little bit more detail and, and maybe you want to make sure that you are where you want to be when you wanna listen to it and make sure you listen to it. So, you know, if, if it's appropriate for, for someone else to listen to Speaker 2 00:53:58 Awesome, what are we talking about next week? Speaker 1 00:54:01 Next week we get to dive into Isaiah. Speaker 2 00:54:03 Oh my goodness. I've been, Isaiah's gonna next.