Jacob 1 - 4

[00:00:15] Speaker A: Welcome to the weekly Deep Dive podcast on the add on Education network. The podcast where we take a look at the weekly come follow me discussions and try to add a little insight and unique perspective. I am your host, Jason Lloyd. Here in the studio with our friend, and this show is producer Nate Pfeiffer. [00:00:31] Speaker B: What's up? [00:00:33] Speaker A: Going back to the Budweiser frogs. [00:00:35] Speaker B: Yeah, baby. No, dude, it was the dudes at the party, but it was the same era. [00:00:39] Speaker A: Same era. Yeah. What's up? [00:00:41] Speaker B: Was up mid nineties. [00:00:42] Speaker A: That's it. Flash of the past. [00:00:46] Speaker B: Things are different in the nineties. I miss a lot of the stuff from the nineties, for better and for worse. I didn't think I was gonna miss the nineties while I was in the nineties. And now we're in the whatever words. And I'm like, man, there were some great things in the nineties. Life was mellow in the nineties. We had to find reasons to be upset in the nineties, I feel like. [00:01:06] Speaker A: Yeah, things have changed. [00:01:07] Speaker B: There was an entire genre around finding things to be upset about. Music. Remember how rage against the machine was just, like, raging against everything, and then 30 years later, they became the machine? They're just the machine now. [00:01:22] Speaker A: It always does. [00:01:24] Speaker B: It always works out that way. What are we talking about tonight, buddy? [00:01:27] Speaker A: Tonight we're talking about Jacob one through four. And Jacob, he's got a responsibility to address the people, to talk to them. He's been anointed. And for him, a big part of this message is revelation. But at the same time, I mean, he's trying to balance, feeding the people, turning them to Christ, getting them plugged in to where they can receive inspiration, receive revelation, but also trying to correct their ways. He is seeing a people that are wandering, that are straying, and he's worried for the direction that they're headed in. And he's got to be a prophet and kind of come in and have a very uncomfortable conversation, or what is an uncomfortable conversation for him? And he's worried because a lot of the men are taking multiple wives, and he feels like there's a lot of wives and children that are just trying to do the right thing, that are coupled there with a husband that maybe is trying to take advantage of the situation and maybe exercise a little bit of unrighteous dominion. And he's worried that if he calls this out, the tender hearts of the wives and the children that are just trying to do the right thing or are going to be offended because of what he's calling sin, like, wait a second. Are we wrapped up into the sin? So you see, you see how carefully he tries to navigate these waters to correct, but to do it with a lot of love and to guide. And so we kind of get to get into a lot of his feelings, a lot of his speech, and focus a lot on prophecy and putting the Lord first, I think, is where we're going to end up. So let's start here in this message, or we're going to go right with chapter one. And the message that I want to lead off with is we use anxiety and anxious. And when we hear this word and we use this term so many times, it's associated as a negative feeling, as something that we're trying to overcome, as something that we're trying to cope with, as something we're trying to, I don't know, fix. And here Jacob uses anxiety as a positive. And he's not the only one to do this. In fact, we will see throughout the scriptures, anxious is used in a very positive way. And so I wanted to take what Jacob was saying and see how anxiety and being anxious can actually be a positive thing. So, and this is verse five. For because of faith and great anxiety, it truly had been made manifest unto us concerning our people, what things should happen unto them. So why did they know the future? Why did they know what was going to happen to their kids? Why was it so important for them to try to turn their children to Christ, knowing that they were going to eventually fall astray? And they're saying, we have to anchor them. Why? Because of this anxiety. Because of this faith, they were anxious. And because they were anxious, it turned them to the Lord. And they asked desperately, what can we do to help our kids? What's going to happen to our kids? What's the fate of our kids? How can we try to get ahead of this? And so for him, revelation came for two main causes. One is faith, believing that God would show them the answer. But two was because of anxiety. And I think this anxiety can be paired with a desire to know. And isn't that what anxiety is? Is something is unsettling? And we're anxious because we want to know what to do, or we want to know what the answer is, or we just want resolution. And it's that unsettling feeling, that anxiety that leads us to not be content with where we're at. And for Jacob, that lack of peace, that lack of being content, is what drives them to the Lord to find out, what can I do? What do I need to do? And so for him, he's using anxiety almost synonymous with a desire to know. Just as Mormon says, if you have a desire to know, if you don't believe, but yet you have just a desire to start with that desire and let that take you to belief. And so for him, anxiety is that seed, that root. It's I'm anxious to know that's what's going to turn me to the Lord, to help me seek answers. So it almost becomes a superpower for him. You see it in doctrine, covenants, where it says everyone should be anxiously engaged in a good work. And it's not just that we piddle around with something every now and again. It's not just that we. When you think about it or when you, when it happens to cross your mind or when you've got a free minute, can you help me out with this? It is, I am anxiously, I am worried what's going to happen if I don't do this. This is my number one priority to try to be engaged in this work. And so for him, anxiety is what connects us to God, which is kind of an interesting way to think of that. [00:06:44] Speaker B: So where do you think that there's a line to be drawn between crippling anxiety of the unknown and the positive anxiety in having that encourage us to do good things? [00:07:02] Speaker A: That's a great question. And I think Jacob balances anxiety with faith because he doesn't say it's just anxiety that's taking us to the Lord. He says, going back to verse five, right, because of faith and great anxiety. And so I think that faith is, I trust that God will give me an answer. I trust that he will let me know when I can let go or when things are okay. And I trust that when he gives me an answer, even if I'm not sure I can let go of that, that crippling aspect of it, because of the faith I have and the answer that he has given me. So anxiety by itself can be crippling. It can be crippling. It has to be balanced with the faith. Do you trust God? And that's a really good question because it's going to come into, when he talks about their pride. I think we get to revisit this a little bit and talk about what it means to trust God. So I'm going to circle back to this point, let me take it to the next, and then, because we're going to get there real soon after they have this verse six. And we also had many revelations and the spirit of much prophecy, wherefore we knew of Christ and his kingdom, which should come. And then next, step seven. Wherefore we labored diligently among our people that we might persuade them to come unto Christ and partake of the goodness of Christ, that they might enter into his rest. And so I see here a progression. Believe faith with anxiety. I believe that God can help me deal with this. I trust him enough that as I'm turning to him to find answers, I believe in what he's saying. Me to where I'm balancing this anxiety. That's a start. And because I'm doing this, he is giving me inspiration. I am receiving revelation. That's the next step in the process, is receiving inspiration. And then the final step. Wherefore, because of the revelation, because of the inspiration, I am acting accordingly. I am following that. I am teaching, and I am bringing others to do this same process. [00:09:12] Speaker B: I like the words, you just finished there, and I was going to bring it up, is the process. And it's because I feel that, in my experience, when the darkness gets me, I call. That's, you know, the anxiety when sometimes you're just laying in bed at night and you're like, my goodness, I don't know if I know how I'm paying the bills next month type of anxiety it can be. I mean, it for sure is making it so you're not sleeping, but there are times where the knots in your stomach, it feels crippling, like it truly does feel the end of the world. And if you haven't gone through the processes of seeing how, well, what I have to do is all I can do, which is get up tomorrow morning, even if it's just gnarly, and go to work and whatever, and it is gonna work itself out. If you haven't gone through a lot of those processes, what can you put your faith in? What are you supposed to be having faith in it? And I'm only kind of relating this. I'm only relating this to me because I have experience in this part of it, which is even having. So I quit my day job in 2012. We've talked about this before, right? Had a great job before, still love the people that I worked with before, but I needed to do what I was passionate about, and I needed to be able to make more money to provide for family, the whole thing. Quit my day job, had our first child and bought a house and had my wife quit her day job, literally all within a month. That's scary. And yeah, it's funny because it was scary, but it wasn't in the moment as scary as it should have been. Like, I think it was more scary. I think it was more scary for my parents and my wife's parents and probably heck of our friends. [00:11:10] Speaker A: I actually understand that very well. [00:11:13] Speaker B: But needless to say is, like, I should have been way more panicked than I was. And I actually consider it a great blessing that there was a calmness in my life that it was gonna work out. And it's terrifying to even look back and just be like, oh, my goodness. There was a lot of things, I feel like, kind of hanging on a thread at that time. But what I was able to learn in the early part of this was live, if I live right, the best that I can, things work out. And the processes that I began learning were. There was, there was maybe the first month, somewhere in that time, you know, the first time came up where I was like, I didn't know how I was paying the bills the next month because I didn't know what jobs I had coming up. And so I stayed awake at night and stared at the ceiling and probably groaned with, like, the pain that was, that was knotting up in my stomach. Like, probably audibly groaning, just like trying to sleep, not being able to sleep, not knowing what to do, praying, whatever. And then the next morning waking up and going back downstairs at the time in my house, at my studio, and just putting in the work and just trying to hustle up some work and kind of get things going and then something happening and kind of a little miracle happening and then, you know, and then going, oh, okay, cool, so I should remember this the next time. And then, you know, six months down the road, it's a similar situation. And as I'm like, ugh, in the middle of the night, not sleeping, the seed was at least planted to go, well, just remember what happened last time that this happened. Do you see where I'm going with this? To where twelve years later, dude, trust me, the darkness still creeps up on me some nights. You know, there are still times where even now where, luckily, I'm not usually panicked about a month to month situation, but, like, there was a couple nights ago where I was just like, I know what jobs I have at the end of the year, but I don't really know what jobs I have kind of over the middle sections of the year. And then I just like, oh, man, tonight's gonna be a night where I don't sleep. But the point is, is that what I've learned now through twelve years of this is I know what to put my faith in. Which is, well, it keeps working out, and it somehow continues to work out. And even if, I don't know, maybe instead of just staying awake all night being stressed about it, I should remember all of the times that it's worked out and that God has been able to just provide these little miracles for me to where now I know what to put my faith in. So I guess this is maybe where I just wanted to contribute a little bit to what you just said, which is these processes of faith with these other things. And just then, the more we can kind of just practice and see the results in the positive ways, we can at least be learning to go, hey, this is what our faith can get stronger once we see these processes continue to work over and over and over. [00:14:18] Speaker A: That is beautiful. And, I mean, I echo what you say. I've had moments in my life where I have clarity, and I know what I need to do, and I can talk to my wife, I can talk to my kids, and I can say, this is it. I know we're doing it, and we make a decision. And it might not even be a week later when all of a sudden I'm wondering, was this the decision? Was this the right decision? Am I doing the right thing? And it doesn't matter how clear it was in the moment. Sometimes you get to those points where you wonder, am I still doing the right thing? Is it? And you have to. You know, it's like you said, it's a process. And the Lord doesn't leave you hanging. You have faith, and you have anxiety. And sometimes the anxiety that you have is, was I feeling the spirit? Was I acting in faith? Was I doing the right thing? And as you trust in the Lord, it works out. Or you receive more confirmation, and you can. And you can write that down. And as you say, over time, it gets easier because you see that pattern and you look back on the times that he's answered those prayers, like, no, no, he's confirmed this to me again and again. [00:15:25] Speaker B: And sometimes to the. To add to the positive nature of this, there are absolutely times where kind of those. Those reckonings when the darkness creeps up on me in the middle of the night and the anxiety comes, it really does kind of also light a fire where I'm just like, oh, man, I. [00:15:42] Speaker A: Okay, cool. [00:15:43] Speaker B: I can't get too comfortable here. Maybe. Maybe this is a gift. Maybe. Maybe I should stop looking at this as such a negative thing of like, well, I'm not gonna be able to sleep tonight. Maybe this is a chance for the Lord to be like, hey, my man, you've got some work to do. Don't, don't get too comfortable with me always just bailing you out. Like, like, get out there and pound the pavement, dude. You still. There's still greatness that needs to be born within you. Get out there and do it. And those nights where I'm in a full panic mode still even sometimes, again, for me, what I've learned to do is literally just pull out my phone and write things down. Stress out about this tomorrow, stress out about this tomorrow. And usually if I can kind of clear my brain of all of the things, I can sleep again. And so it is what it is. But to your point, when we're being told to be anxiously engaged in good works, I think that we can. That sounds to me, that sounds way more like maybe it's the Lord going, hey, look, still have faith that I'm going to show you the path or clear a path, or at least I'm going to have your back as you forge a path through with a machete through the bush right at the end of the day. Maybe it's a. Maybe it's a fire being lit. Maybe. Maybe there's a maybe there. We need to stop looking at it. Always as such a negative. Now, trust me when I say this as well, though, too, I'm not here. We're not trying to dismiss people that suffer from anxiety. I am a kindred spirit, my friends. Don't misunderstand. All we're saying is instead of looking at this and saying, this is always a negative, and I'm trying to do everything to get rid of this in my life, we're just saying, hey, look at all things with an open mind to be like, hey, is this. Should I, could I be using this as a tool to be positive? Could I be using this as a tool to be doing good in the world as well? [00:17:37] Speaker A: Well, let me ask you this question. Would you be anxious to trying to do what the Lord wants you to do if you weren't ever thinking of the Lord? [00:17:46] Speaker B: Oh, that's a great point. That's a fantastic point. Fantastic point. [00:17:52] Speaker A: It's when I'm trying to do what he wants that I feel anxious. Cause if he's not in my mind, if I'm just doing whatever I want to do, I don't have any anxiety on that because I'm not thinking about that. It's not bothering me. It's not. Or maybe it is because I should be and I'm not doing it, but not in the same sense, right? [00:18:08] Speaker B: Yeah, it's good. I always love having these discussions where we get to take a look at something. I feel like that is always considered just, like, always negative and it's black and white. Right. It's funny because, again, I don't want. I'm not trying to go too far down this path, but I feel like it is relevant, which is there was about, man, five months, six months towards the end of, I guess towards the middle of last year, beginning of last year, middle of last year, where I was very legitimately depressed. Not. Not that I couldn't function, but that there was definitely a cloud, you know, and, you know, the way that people experience and, you know, manage depression can be obviously very different. And there's a wide spectrum of what that means. And for some, it very much. It requires medication. For some, it requires therapy and all those things. For some, we've kind of dealt with it for so long that we've learned a lot of tools to kind of, you know, get out in the sun and exercise and write lists and do a lot of things like that. But I, in that time, for the first time, really discovered something that really flipped the way that I feel. Like I even perceived or would talk about something like depression, which is we always look at it through a lens of, this is negative. We need to get rid of this. And during that time, where I was just, man, it just had me. I was never more prolific in my art. I was creating some of the most intensely deep, personal, but, like, really, really good. You know, I don't want to critique my own work, you know, through the lens of just me. But what I will say is, it's not just me saying this. I'm, like, truly the projects that I was working on and collaborating on, I could objectively look at that and be like, this is some of the best work I've ever done. And it made me then ask myself, the question is, like, is this, do I really want this to go away? Right? Like, I'm just saying, it's like, it just, it just at least made the question, yeah. And here's why I think that this is relevant, because, yes, ultimately, yes, I did. Right? Ultimately, it was, it's. It's what you're willing to sacrifice for something else. I I didn't. I didn't want to linger too long in that world because it was taking its toll kind of physically on me just as much as it was emotionally and mentally to where I'm going. Like, okay, it is nice that this. It is nice that it at least is actually bearing really beautiful fruit in another part of my life. It's the catalyst, it's the inspiration for things that actually, I think, are gonna pay some bills for me down the road. Like, it's a blessing in a weird sort of a way. Do you know what I mean? I guess I'm just saying it's like we can't these things that we always try to compartmentalize as good and bad when it comes to feeling an emotion, we sometimes don't allow ourselves to really think through what it can also be, maybe providing us an opportunity to do. And then the question just is, well, what behavior does it inspire or what changes or what does it lead us to do? And this is where this circles back around to, and this is why I asked you the question, and I think you answered it beautifully, which is you can't eliminate though faith and God from those things. Because again, in this situation, for me, I was able to look at it and go, no, I don't want to linger in this space for too much longer because it really is taking a permanent toll. But I can objectively look in this and say at the end of this and say, God, thank you for the understanding that I learned through this trip. Thank you for the opportunities that it may have kind of provided for me financially. Thank you for, like, who knows if five years down the road I'm gonna look back and be like, my goodness, those songs that were written during that time saved me from financial ruin that I couldn't even see coming down the road to the scriptures. If we are anxiously engaged in good, it's taking something that can be a very negative thing and can be very destructive and very crippling and sometimes totally out of our controls to even deal with, and really would need medication to hold on. I get it. It just maybe, just will give us a chance to look at some things differently, give ourselves a little bit more perspective. And at least for me, this is why I really like this discussion, and I've since had this discussion with a lot of friends, which is instead of just labeling emotions good and bad, we should try to look for the good. We should try to look for the positives. We should try to understand maybe why, if we can, and if we have faith that we can use even these negative things or our weaknesses, we can make our weaknesses become strengths. Maybe we can use some of our weaknesses to bless the lives of other. Maybe this, maybe that long stint that I was kind of dealing with is because I have a child that's coming up to an age that's going to need somebody that really, truly understands where they're at. And maybe that was a chance to save them too. I don't know exactly why it, but I have faith that God is still aware of me even in those times too. And I think that there is still beautiful, positive things that can be learned in anxiety and in depression. As crazy as it sounds, I think that there's, there's something potentially beautiful to be born in those as well. [00:24:20] Speaker A: I think that's very well said. And I think, you know, looking back at some of that, when you don't understand or when you're looking at it and you're looking so desperately trying to find God, and it seems like you're not finding it, you have faith that you will, but you're anxious because you want to find that peace. Sometimes it leads you to resources that you didn't even know were available. And you start having conversations with people and connecting and relationships and things that just blossom and bloom, that God is using that anxiety for your good, to bless your life, to give you things that you didn't even know you needed or you wanted. [00:24:59] Speaker B: Right? [00:24:59] Speaker A: And I think that's a big part of Jacob's message. I look at the restoration of the gospel and I ask this question. Would it have happened if Joseph Smith wasn't anxious about the welfare and the salvation of his soul? God doesn't step in and say, joseph, I am calling you to be a prophet. He is waiting until for that anxiety is overcoming him and he is going to every meeting he can. He's looking for an answer wherever he can, and he's not interrupting this process, he's not stopping this process from running its course. He's waiting till that boy is desperate, praying on his knees, and even at. [00:25:37] Speaker B: The point of depression and despair, even. [00:25:42] Speaker A: In the moment, that's it. In the moment, like you say, when the power of darkness is about to overcome him, literally, to match what he was going through, symbolically or symbolic is not even the right word. Literally, he's going through this, but physically and emotionally, to have God step in and use those processes, his anxiety, with faith, with faith, with faith. And when that's done and he sees that you have a couple years gap right before he sees Moroni, and when does God say, okay, I'm sending Moroni in to say, okay, Joseph, you've got an important work to do, and we can't wait on you forever. We're gonna interrupt. No, no, no, no. He waits until again, Joseph Smith is wondering what was I supposed to do? Was I supposed to do something like. And it's his anxiety and it's his desire to his faith, knowing that he would get an answer to his prayer and knowing that he needs to, that this whole process is coming about, that this is the process, this is the revelatory process. And I think we look at these verses in Jacob, and it's very easy to ask ourselves the question, where am I in the process? Have I received revelation and am I acting on it? Am I trying to bring others to Christ? Or is that something that's not even on my mind? Or is it in my mind? And I'm anxiously trying to figure out what the Lord wants me to do, and I'm still waiting for that revelation to guide me, or am I receiving it? And now am I in the part where I'm starting to act on this, right. So it's kind of a nice little check. When's the last time we felt revelation? When's the last time we felt inspiration? Are we acting on it, or are we just not anxious enough and need to engage ourselves to be able to start receiving that love it? Okay, I'm going to switch into chapter two, and I want to take this back into the conversation as well. And Jacob's talking about these people receiving lots of revelations as a really righteous people, but he's also balancing it with, look, you guys have been prosperous. You're going out there seeking riches, and you're finding it. And not only are you finding all of this riches, now, there's a common theme. There are two things that he's going to be talking about. One is finding wealth, physical wealth, and the other is going to be seeking after, would you call it, sexual wealth. It's still desire, but desires in having multiple wives. And in both cases, it's really just one. And it's an excess of personal desire, of personal wants and to have more than the next guy. One wife isn't enough. I need to have more than the next guy. This money is not enough. I need to have more than the next guy. So he's going to balance this with, yes, we're having lots of revelations, but because we've been so blessed, because we've been doing so well, there are some people that have lost focus. Now. They've had a taste of that revelation, they've had a taste of that success, and they're doing really well. And they're finding this desire and their desires being met to where their desire is now replacing God in their lives. And the first commandment, thou shalt have no other God before me. They are falling into a trap of breaking that by putting their own personal desires above God. This is what Jacob says about it. This is chapter two, verse 13. And the hand of Providence hath smiled upon you most pleasingly that you have obtained many riches, and because some of you have obtained more abundantly than that of your brethren, you're lifted up in the pride of your hearts and wear stiff necks and high heads because of the costliness of your apparel, and persecute your brethren, because ye suppose that you're better than they. And in here, there's one line that just kind of really stood out to me this week as I was reading it, and it's the stiff necks and the high head. And I was thinking about this in my mind. I'm thinking, because they talk about the costliness of apparel, I'm thinking of starched shirts with these stiff collars, and they're holding their heads up high, and they're looking down at their nose, at everybody. And I started to think about that, and I'm like, I can't imagine Jews in Jerusalem, 600 BC, as wearing these starch stiff collars, right? And I'm thinking stiff necked. It's not a phrase unique to the book of Mormon. I look in the bible, and it says it all the time. I'm like, what did stiff naked mean? So as I start to do some digging, this is where it comes from. And you're gonna like this, Nate, because it's your yoked oxen. [00:30:43] Speaker B: Oh, yeah, baby. [00:30:44] Speaker A: When you've got yoked oxen, and so you put the two oxen together, right? And you've got the yolk on them, and you can guide them if you're up on the side with them. You can use a lot of your body language to walk kind of cross in front of them, and it's gonna help turn them one way or to withdraw and pull back, and it's gonna help, but you have a goad as well, or a whip and a sharp stick or something that's gonna kind of snap. And. And it's not that you're stabbing them and trying to make them bleed, right? It's just to cause a little bit of discomfort to get them to kind of feel what you're wanting to communicate. And it becomes more important if you're actually behind the ox driving them, because now you're not up front where they can see you. And they can't just follow your cues and move with your body. You're having to poke them with the stick and from the behind to try to get them to move forward. And if you need them to steer and turn one way or the other, you're poking them in the neck. And so when they said that an ox has a stiff neck, it's because it's acting like it doesn't feel the prick on its neck. It's still going to go where it wants to go, regardless of how much you poke it. So I think about these people. They're yoked, right? Take my yoke upon you. They're doing the Lord's work. They're receiving these revelations. But then as the Lord tries to prod them to go a different course, what's happened? They've tasted a little bit of success. They've had some riches, and now, instead of God being their master, they're looking at these riches, and it looks good, and that becomes their new desire. And so God starts poking and like, yeah, I know. You want me to go that way? Just a second. I gotta go get this first. Right. It's not that the ox can't feel the prick. It's that what he wants is more important than the prick that's being communicated. I can deal with a little bit of pain now, and it's kind of interesting, right? I can sacrifice a little bit of comfort now for what I'm wanting. It is almost a counterfeit of what the Lord's asking us to do, is sacrifice everything for the greater good and trust in him. Right? So you talk about balancing that anxiety with. With faith, with trust. It takes faith and trust to know that the person with the stick is. Is directing you for the greater success. That I know that what I see up there is what I want. But yet, if I trust the guy with the stick who's directing me somewhere else, I will get what I was wanting to and achieve far greater success by being useful in his hands than what I would have if I just did what I wanted to do. [00:33:27] Speaker B: Great insight. It's awesome. It's great insight. I think we're always. I think the only image we've ever explored, or that at least we talk about mostly in church, is kind of the idea that, you know, if you're with a stiff neck, you're not bowing it. There's like a humility thing in there and whatnot. I know that that's kind of the general go to symbology with that, but I am really glad you brought in where that saying actually came from, because that's fantastic insight. [00:33:57] Speaker A: Well, this helps me understand what Christ was saying so much better. When I go back to the new testament, and you remember there's this weird, harsh story where Christ is saying, take my yoke upon me. Come follow me, right? And the guy says, let me bury my dad, right? And Christ says, whoever sets his hand to the plow and yet turns away is not fit for the kingdom or fit for the work, right? And that seems harsh. And so I'm thinking about this in terms of what I'm reading in Jacob, and Jacob's helping me understand this a lot better. And the thought hit me this week, wait a second. I've always assumed that the guy's dad had recently died. Now think about this differently. What if his dad wasn't dead? What if his dad was just a little bit older? And Christ is saying, come follow me. I need you to go on a mission which is going to require you walking a long ways. You're going to be there for a few months. It's going to take you maybe years before you get back to your house. And maybe by the time you get back, your parents aren't going to be there anymore. So when he says, let me bury my dad, it's not to say that his dad had already died. And I'm going to have a funeral today. It's saying, I don't know if my dad's going to die while I'm gone. Let me wait until my dad's dead for a more convenient time, and then I will serve you. And the problem with that way of thinking, right, if the Lord asked me to do something today, and I say, well, you know what? That's great, Lord, but let me wait until my kids grow up and graduate, and then when they're out of the house, it's going to be easier for me to follow you. Right? Well, what happens then if I wait till then and the kids are out of the house and grown up? Well, guess what? By the time the youngest has graduated, the oldest has already got kids, and now I've got grandkids, and I'm gonna come back to the Lord and say, well, wait until I'm done with this stage. [00:36:10] Speaker B: What you're describing right now is anxiety without faith. [00:36:15] Speaker A: Yes. [00:36:15] Speaker B: I'm just saying that's exactly your fear, the fear of the unknown. What you're describing exactly to a t is anxiety without faith. And this is where a lot of us get into trouble. When making decisions, when choosing our life's path, when choosing who to be in relationships with, when choosing careers, is when we are making decisions out of fear and not faith. And it's. As you're describing this, I feel like you really can even swap out the word anxiety with fear, and it really kind of. It describes a lot of things that, again, can just kill us, just get really in our ways and just destroy any positive momentum and potentially lead to worse. But what you described in that story, it's really close to home, man. And that is. Yeah, well, I'm scared that I'm gonna miss this if I do this, or what if this happens while I'm gone, or, you know, this conversation probably happens with every missionary that's wanting to go out and serve. But think of it, even with callings that we're doing and things like that, too. Well, if I do that, then whatever, dude, you're moving halfway across the world. There's a whole list of things that we can. We talked about my story earlier, but everybody listening, I'm sure, has the same story. Right. If you're making a decision based out of fear, it's probably the wrong decision. If you're making a decision based out of just anxiousness or anxiety and it's crippling you because there is a lack of process or a lack of faith that you can tie to it. Yeah, you're probably right. Then it maybe is. Maybe that's. Maybe you still need to go through the processes of figuring out what you should be doing, I guess, more in that. To me, I don't think that any time that we're worried about something, it means that we shouldn't do it. It all then just depends on, like, again, where faith, I guess, collides with that. Does that make any sense? [00:38:30] Speaker A: It does make sense. It does make sense, and I want to put out there, too. There is never a convenient time to drop everything you have and serve the Lord. I completely agree. If you're waiting for that moment where you're not busy anymore, where you think that sometime down the road, you actually have nothing to do, and you can now give God or to follow your. [00:38:53] Speaker B: Dreams or to start a family or. [00:38:55] Speaker A: To whatever it is, man. Let's go back to the first sacrifice with Cain and Abel. They both offered sacrifices, right? But Abel's offering the first of his flock. Cain's offering the fruit of the ground. And now you can look at that as the first of his crops that he's growing, but it doesn't say the first of his crops. This is the fruit of the ground. I'm almost looking at that as the. [00:39:20] Speaker B: End of the harvest. [00:39:21] Speaker A: The end of the harvest what fell on the ground that I didn't pick what's left over when. So I've got an option. Am I going to serve God first, or am I going to give him what's left over after I've done? What I want to do is conveniently, when it's convenient. And if I'm waiting to give to God whatever's left over at the end, then what did I do? I replaced. [00:39:46] Speaker B: He's going to reject it. [00:39:47] Speaker A: I've replaced God with a different God because for me, it's more important that I follow after my desires and what I think comes first than what God thinks comes first. [00:39:59] Speaker B: And convenience, convenience is a thing that we put above God quite frequently. And I'm saying this as personal, and I'm saying this as even that I observe at times, culturally. I mean, there's a lot of big topics of debate on the social media forums are about how we observe certain covenants that we made in the temple. And it's shocking how, look, I'm not going to tell anybody what they should or shouldn't do, but it is shocking how a lot of people are arguing this point from a point of convenience. And even members of the church using the word convenience in maintaining certain covenants that they made in the temple. I'm like, oh, no, not that word. Like, we can have this discussion for sure. Like, dude, you and I am like, cool, man. Like, we're always down to talk about the, why. Why do we believe this? Why do we say this? Look, we're all about that. But, man, if part of your argument is convenience, like, uh oh. Like, that's like, a lot has been missed along the way if you thought that any of this was ever supposed to be convenient, you know, my goodness, at least as far as I understand it. [00:41:15] Speaker A: And I go. I go back to that ox. It feels the prick on its neck. How can it not? [00:41:22] Speaker B: Of course it does. [00:41:23] Speaker A: It's just that it wants something else more. I'll turn. When I'm ready to turn, I promise I'll turn. I'm still putting God in my life first. I'm going to do what he wants to do just after I'm done doing what I want to do first. And it's easy because riches are attractive. [00:41:43] Speaker B: And they're good things, and they are. And by the way, one of the things that they provide in a lot of situations is convenience, by the way. Freedom and convenience that we all could use a little bit more of in our life in certain aspects. Trust me. Like, we're not even saying it's a bad thing. We're taught to seek riches if it's to build the kingdom of God, and. [00:42:01] Speaker A: Jacob follows that up right there with that. [00:42:04] Speaker B: Sorry, I didn't mean to cut you off. [00:42:05] Speaker A: No, no, no, you're good. I just cut you off. [00:42:07] Speaker B: No, what I'm saying is I appreciate this is, this is. You bring up a good point. [00:42:11] Speaker A: I want. I want all the money, man. [00:42:15] Speaker B: Like, I joke, I love money, too. Like, we're all good. Like, I. I would be thrilled. I would be. Because, by the way, I would be thrilled if I could then use that money to. To make it so that I didn't have to work as many hours so that I could actually spend some more time with my family. Now, here's the catch, though. It's shocking how we can say that. And then we can get some money and find ourselves still finding ways to put our priorities above where they're supposed to be. And now I'm speaking straight to myself. I'm holding up a mirror and having this conversation. I'm not, I'm not. I'm not judging anybody out there. I'm saying what I've seen in myself, because this is human nature. We always go, hey, I want more money so that I can have more time to go on, do all the awesome things and minister more to my ward and to spend more time with my family. Yeah, that all sounds great. And by the way, if that's what we did with our newfound freedom, that money could provide us, that would be great for me. It's shocking how I'll say that, you know, and then some, I'll catch, you know, I'll have some really good months and I'm like, wait, why am I not, why am I not hanging out with my family more? Do you want to know why? Usually it's because I'm anxious. I'm going, well, now what's going to happen, though, when all of this runs out? Well, now what's going to happen? You see what I mean? Like, like, I'm not, even if my heart isn't in the right place in the first place, if I haven't actually made the behavioral changes in my brain in the first place, I'm going to run into the same problems I'm running. [00:43:45] Speaker A: Into when I'm broke. That's it. There will always be something else to pull our attention. That's right. At some point, we have to disconnect and listen to the pricks in the neck. [00:43:57] Speaker B: That's exactly right. When you're broke, or when you're flush. Either way, like, the point that we're making here is it will never be convenient like that. We think it's going to be to do the right thing. I mean, I mean, maybe sometimes it'll be more convenient than others, but if we wait for things to align how we think that they will perfectly align, they won't because something else will always come up. [00:44:23] Speaker A: And that's where Christ says, where your, where your heart is, there will your treasure be also. [00:44:27] Speaker B: Boom. [00:44:28] Speaker A: And if my heart is on the riches of the world, and that's the funny thing that you said it so well, we can justify that. How many different ways. I want to have a family, so therefore I am going to seek riches so that I can support a large family. Let me first get this money and get stable. Then I will have kids. Let me first get money and then I can afford to go serve a mission. Let me first get this. And we put it, we might have all the right justifications in the world, but where your heart is, there will your treasure be also. And if for you, the very first priority is I am so super focused on this that I am missing the pricks in my neck, then I've missed the point, correct? I've got to at some point. And that's why Christ says, for a man who says, let me just wait until it's convenient, let me wait until first I can bury my parents and then do it. If you're waiting for a convenient time, it will never come because there will always be something else. If it's not your parents, it's going to be your kids. It's going to be something. There will always be something vying for your attention. Put God first. [00:45:40] Speaker B: I think this is temporal and spiritual, though. So take that for what it's worth. All right, let's keep going. [00:45:44] Speaker A: Okay. And then Jacob goes back to what you're saying, Nate, and really brings this in. Well, think of your brother. And this is verse 17. Like unto yourselves, be familiar with all and free with your substance. That you may be, that they may be rich like unto you. Right? Love your brother and share. You know, don't, don't, don't try to think you're better. That's a little bit off the topic. 18 is where we're going to rein this in. But before you seek riches, now think about this before. Now think about the language and the commandments. Thou shalt have no other God before me. It's not saying you can't have any gods, and it's not saying here, don't seek riches. What he's saying is before, in front of more important. So after you have obtained a hope, sorry. Verse 18. But before you seek riches, seek ye the kingdom of God. Put God first. And after you have attained a hope in Christ, then ye shall obtain riches. If ye seek them, and ye will seek them for the intent to do good, to clothe the naked, to feed the hungry, to liberate the captive, to administer relief to the sick and the afflicted. And we get so much more than, than what we otherwise would have. Think back on this man that, that didn't want to go because he was worried what might happen to my parents while I'm gone. Okay, you sacrificed for one more year, two more years to be with your parents. And maybe they don't even die in that time that you would have been gone, right? Maybe you come back and you didn't miss anything at all, but you exchanged following the Lord for one or two years. What are one or two years in the eternal scheme of things? When the Lord is promising you a resurrection, when the Lord is promising you to be with your family for eternity, I will give you an eternity more of years with your parents. And you want to trade that eternity for two years? For one year, he's going to give us way more in abundance. In exchange for what he's asking us to change our focus on. It's like we're skipping over dollars to pick up pennies. [00:48:02] Speaker B: I've always appreciated these scriptures. We learn about a lot of this even as children. I come, luckily, from parents who are very financially responsible and have always been, and that's been a really amazing example. And as kids when they didn't have a ton of money, I appreciate how hyper focused they were on and the faith that they put in this exact principle and this exact lesson, which is, hey, we're going to be financially responsible. We're going to be, you know, we're going to try to do this the right way. We're going to try to stay out of debt and all of those things, but more so than that, we are going to try to raise good kids. We're going to try to lift where we stand. We're going to try to really, and they did show us kids a great example of how to live right. And I can say that again, 35 years later, 30 years later, I have now the perspective where I can look back at that over time and be like, I absolutely have a belief in that this is true and that what Jacob's teaching here is absolutely righteous. And I would leave my testimony with his about that, because I've actually seen it. [00:49:18] Speaker A: So I think I've got one last thought on this particular part. When he says, after you seek God, if you seek riches, you will find him. And when he's talking about thinking that you're better than somebody else. This is something we've brought up on the show in the past, Nate, but I think it's really a two way street. Yes. You have people that have fine clothing, that are doing really well, that are successful, that are looking down on people that haven't found that success. And maybe they're judging them, saying, you know, they're not as blessed from the Lord and they're not as righteous. They don't try as hard, or they're not as anxious as I am, or. [00:49:59] Speaker B: Worse, they think that God's going to provide for them. I don't even believe in God. Look how much stuff I have. Like, that's. That's very real, too. [00:50:06] Speaker A: But on the flip side of that, look at the people that maybe are more humble circumstances, looking up at those with riches and judging them and saying, you are wicked because of your riches. You're wicked because you're seeking after them. [00:50:21] Speaker B: Or you don't deserve them. And I do. And, I mean, there's all kinds of judgment that goes that way, too, as well. [00:50:27] Speaker A: And God's saying, if you put the kingdom of God first, you will have reaches if you seek them. And he's not saying it's a bad thing to seek them. In fact, go back to what he was saying with revelation and inspiration. Right. To some people, it's to stay. To some people, it's to go, to some people to seek riches, to some people to be humble. To some people to whatever. Right. If you've sought the kingdom of God first and you've been anxious and asking him, what do you want me to do? What are my talents? What am I? Just go back to the parable of talents. It was never about your ability to play the piano. It was how much money the Lord was trusting you with and your responsibility to take that investment and double it. [00:51:11] Speaker B: That's exactly right. [00:51:12] Speaker A: And if the Lord's trusting us to seek riches after not first, but after we have a hope in Christ, after we have set our testimony to him and put him first in every aspect of our life, then. Then who's somebody to judge or criticize? Someone for seeking riches and saying, how wicked are they because they're looking after the gold or they're wealthy or we can't. We can't get caught pointing fingers, whether you're. You're on one end of the spectrum or the other end of the spectrum. It's a two way street. [00:51:44] Speaker B: Perfectly said. Let's keep going. [00:51:47] Speaker A: All right, next. You know, there's not a whole lot more I want to talk about, but I do want to talk in chapter three, the Lamanites, who they've been looking down upon and saying, you know, these guys, they don't accept the prophet. They don't believe in religion, whatever the case, right. They're looking at them very critically. And so I think very easily, Jacob is taking this conversation and talking about physical riches, and yet he's going to apply this same thing to spiritual riches and the ability to trust in a prophet to receive revelations, to know what you're going to do. And while these people have been blessed with revelations and a close relationship with God and a prophet, they're looking down and condemning the Lamanites, who were humble, who don't have many revelations. And he's saying they're not having them not because of their own wickedness, but because the wickedness of their dads. They've been disconnected from that path. But here's the thing, and I find this kind of fascinating. It says Lehi gave them commandments. And I don't think we typically think of Lehi as a lawgiver like Moses. And I don't remember reading anywhere in the Book of Mormon up to this point where Lehi gives them commandments. But Jacob lines it out. He says that this is in chapter three, verse four, the commandment of the Lord which was given unto our father, that they should have save it be save it were one wife and concubines. They should have none, and there should be no whoredoms committed among them. And so these Lamanites, you know, I think we get carried away in thinking these wild people doing whatever they want to do, that didn't live by any sort of law. They didn't agree with Nephi being a prophet. They didn't agree with Nephi being their ruler, but they didn't eject from their laws, either. They were grounded in the commandments that Lehi gave them. Maybe they didn't believe in the revelation, maybe they didn't believe in this prophecy, but they still remain grounded in the commandments and the law of the land that was given to them to keep. And I find that interesting. And I wonder if we also have similar conversations or mindsets around people that leave the church today. And we look at them. And they've cut themselves off from revelation, or they've cut themselves off from the prophet. But these people, maybe they're still obeying the laws, perhaps even better than people within the church that do believe in revelation, that do believe in prophecies are. [00:54:34] Speaker B: Yeah, we gotta be careful. Yeah, it's a great point. Great point. Anything else? [00:54:41] Speaker A: This is the last one. This is Jacob, chapter four. And it's gonna end right where we started. This is verse six, wherefore we search the prophets and we have many revelations. In the spirit of prophecy and having all these witnesses, we obtain a hope and our faith become unshaken insomuch that we truly can command in the name of Jesus that the very trees obey us and the mountains of the waves of the sea. Nevertheless, the Lord God showeth our weakness, that we may know that it is by his grace and his great condescension of the children of men that we have power to do these things. And I think, I mean, Jacob's kind of ending this with how he started it, right? This prophecy, this revelation, this enabling power that God gives us. And where are we at in that process? Nevertheless, notwithstanding the revelations, notwithstanding the firm hope in Christ, he shows us our weaknesses. What does weakness foster? Anxiety. Oh, shoot. What do I need to do now? How do I do this? And this is like you say, Nate, and the word that you love so much. This is a process. And that's why we have a sacrament that stands continually to remind us, to bring us back to review and, I don't know, maybe sometimes stoke the flames of anxiety in us that those weaknesses turn to a source of strength, that we can find more hope in Christ and drive us through this circle in this process. And maybe the most important thing I can leave us on is are we having revelation and are we following it? If not, maybe that stick is poking us in the neck and we've just been so focused on what we want that we've missed it. How do we get anxious about seeing those revelations, having those revelations, and inviting the Lord into our life and putting him first so that we can be steered by him? [00:56:41] Speaker B: Awesome. Let's see what the book of Mormon for Gen. Z. The unofficial chat GPT translation for Zhen G by Broseph Smith has to say about this section. Jacob 213. Some of you have already struck it rich and you're getting super prideful and looking down on your fellow nephites who haven't been as successful as you. But let me tell you, God is not cool with this attitude. He's going to come down hard on you if you don't shape up. I wish you could see how powerful God is and how easily he could take you down if he wanted to. Then the most important part yo comma, wouldn't it be great if God could just save you from being so messed up and doing all this bad stuff? Seriously, why can't you just listen to what he tells you to do? Don't let your ego ruin your life, man. [00:57:25] Speaker A: Don't let your ego ruin your life. [00:57:27] Speaker B: We appreciate you guys listening. We do deeply love and care about you guys and appreciate the support. We love getting the feedback, questions and comments. You can get a hold of us at the email address. High deep dive.com man, you guys always send in such great perspective. I think that we would. We always try to. We always try to work in a lot of the questions and perspectives that you guys give us without betraying, betraying anybody and making it so that you don't feel like you can't. We would never want you to feel like you couldn't offer your perspective without like getting blindsided and having us like shout you out or call you out on the show. But just so you know, we take a lot of that to heart and we use it to inspire us and to help us think through things as well too. So please keep sending it in. We love hearing from you. Please feel free to share with your friends. Please leave us reviews on various podcasting applications and sites, or leave us some stars if you feel so inclined to do so. But we do love you and appreciate you as well. We will see you next week. [00:58:38] Speaker A: See ya.