Episode Transcript
Speaker 1 00:00:15 Well, do the weekly deep dive podcast on the add on education network, the podcast where we take a look at the weekly, come follow me discussion and try to add a little insight and unique perspective. I am your host, Jason Lloyd here in the studio with my friend and this show's producer, Nate Pifer. Sup, Hey, it's been a while since I've heard that introduction music,
Speaker 2 00:00:39 Honestly like Ed's I wanted to do more Genesis, but I'm, um, I'm really busy in life dog.
Speaker 1 00:00:46 Yeah, I get that. In fact, for you guys out there at home that we're expecting this podcast to hit maybe a day earlier. Thanks for your patience. We, we, we, we kinda got slammed there at the end of the week and just didn't quite have enough energy to get it in on time. We had a
Speaker 2 00:01:00 Bonus episode for you. We tried to
Speaker 1 00:01:02 Make up for it. We did get the bonus episode in there
Speaker 2 00:01:05 Last night. I'm sorry, Jason, you can tell them the truth. It was my bad. I was just, I was beat after a week of long hours at work and it was just like, we're going to have to do this late, but we'll still get it in.
Speaker 1 00:01:18 I was just as happy to call it a night. Okay. It's good. It's uh, it's good that we, uh, what's good that we have time to get in here though, and get this out to you guys now. So last week at the, uh, towards the end of the week, I did find an app on, on the Android. I w I think it's on either Android or iPhone though. Come follow me app. And I opened it up and it had all sorts of cool resources for the come follow me and where you can look and get some more information. And they had a section there of resources for adults. And I saw listed a bunch of podcasts, which I thought were really good, but what I found missing was our podcasts. I know we haven't put a whole lot of resources and to getting the word out there, we're just kind of having some fun, but we do feel like, I don't know, I'm really enjoying old Testament. So I shot them an email and asked if they would consider including our podcast. So I thought maybe I'd hit you guys up our listening audience. If you appreciate the show, maybe it maybe hit them up as well. And see if you
Speaker 2 00:02:17 Don't mind taking literally three minutes out of your day,
Speaker 1 00:02:21 Their email, his contact at come follow me, foundation.org. Just see if, uh, if they would consider adding the weekly deep dive as part of their,
Speaker 2 00:02:32 I dunno, come follow me. Maybe you can give them just a brief testimonial of like, look. One of the dudes is super, super, super smart. The other is super, super good looking. And so between the two, between the two, they have this total, and I'm not even going to tell you which one is which, but between the two of them, they have this really great come follow me podcast. Maybe if you could say something like that, what do you think? Jason
Speaker 1 00:02:59 Sounds fantastic.
Speaker 2 00:03:03 They do great. Genesis covers. Occasionally we'll throw in a really bad melodica version of a Jurassic park theme.
Speaker 1 00:03:13 That was a good
Speaker 2 00:03:13 Episode. I was, that's still probably my favorite episode sharks in heaven. I went just took itself over how one, just that one, that one, that one derailed itself. All right. What are we talking about this week, Jason, this week?
Speaker 1 00:03:26 Can we get to get into Abraham? In fact, this week in the next couple of weeks, I believe we had to talk about Abraham and it's kind of cool in between Noah and Abraham on the come follow me resources. They almost have a little bonus episode, if you will, where it talks about covenants.
Speaker 2 00:03:43 I read that today was awesome.
Speaker 1 00:03:45 Yeah. And covenant is such a big part of Abraham as we're talking about the Abrahamic covenant, but it's also a big part of Noah and something we didn't even mention at all. When we were talking about Noah, the last two episodes that we did, the covenant that God makes with him after the flood is over. So covenant is going to be a large part of what we're talking about today. And I don't know if we want to start right off with covenant. Let's do it. Hey, yeah, let's, let's do it in order to make a covenant. The verb that you use in Hebrew with making a covenant is cut. You always cut a covenant. And in fact burrito, the Hebrew word for covenant comes from a word in a sense that means cutting. So you're almost cutting, uh, cutting. When you establish a covenant and God establishes a covenant with Noah, he's going to establish a covenant with Abraham and these covenants.
Speaker 1 00:04:43 Interestingly enough, there's also another word used to describe the covenant relationship. So not, not the actual act of making a covenant, but a covenant relationship. The Hebrew word is Jada and Jada means to know, and this should be interesting to you because this same verb to know is the same verb they use. When they say Adam knew his wife and they bear Cain or Abel or Seth or whatever the case may be. And I'm sure you're all familiar with, with this verb. In that sense, when you say to know somebody in the biblical sense means to have intimacy with that person. Well, it's a little bit more than that to know someone yet. Isn't exactly. Just to know someone carnally really it's to have a covenant relationship with that person, which is probably why it's used in a sensual sense, because they're in a wedding ceremony, that the act that we talked a little bit about this with the 10 virgins, but the act itself, the ceremony is the act of consummation that marriage having that affair, that, that intimate contact is what seals that relationship.
Speaker 1 00:06:04 What makes that covenant active. And so God's covenant relationship is as a knowledge of his people. He knows his people. They have a covenant with him. They they're, they're tied to each other. And perhaps that explains a little bit more when we talk about getting sealed in the church, when you're sealed, you're not just sealed to your spouse. You're sealed to God in this covenant binding relationship that as we talked about the, the, the blood atonement or the blood covenant, excuse me, when a man goes to his wife back in the ancient Israel practice, and they would bring out the bloodshed bread bedsheets to show the blood is a sign that they have sealed the deal, this idea that, that blood goes into stealing this relationship, similar to the blood of Christ, being that that, which was shed in order to seal us to God, to make that work.
Speaker 1 00:07:01 And hopefully this gives you an idea when God starts talking about the relationship he has with Israel and his people. And he refers to Israel as his wife, as, as a Virgin, who's faithful to him. And if Israel ever wanders away from that covenant relationship, he describes it again, in terms of, of cheating, like a prostitute or a whore, someone who has had an affair with a different husband, because they've established a different covenant by worshiping a different God. So, so many times throughout the Bible, this covenant relationship with God is, is very comparable to fidelity within marriage. If that makes any sense. And maybe that gives you a little context to when God and you come to him at the end. And if he says, I know you not that word to know in a sense is what he's saying. I have no contractual obligation to you.
Speaker 1 00:08:05 Hmm. The covenant has been broken or, or not been established. If you don't have that contract, that, that contractual relationship, you don't have that covenant. Then, then there is no binding. There is no, he is not obligated or, or Kentucky contractually bound to, to save you. So these covenants are important. And going back to the idea of these cutting of covenants, uh, oftentimes a covenant is recorded in a clay tablet or something that can be used to refer to the tablet is stored in the temple and society so that people could go to there. And they could look at the terms of the agreement and oftentimes the agreement stipulates, how often the agreement needs to be read in order for people to keep it fresh in their minds. And so I've got, I've got here a Hittite treaty, and it's SIM it's. It's interesting because in the story where we're talking about Abraham and the covenant that he's going to be making with God, you have this little interruption, if you will, of Abraham going to war with a bunch of different Kings and, and the, the, the, the fascinating thing about it is the treaties that Kings make is, is very similar to the covenant that God makes treaties and covenants go, go hand in hand.
Speaker 1 00:09:34 So this is a Hittite treaty. And in first it has an introduction phase where it introduces the speaker says, here, here, my, this is here. And then after that, it goes into a historical prologue. So it gives a little bit of historical background to what's making the, the conditions of the treaty. Then it has the stipulations you are required to our friends or your friends. Our enemies are your enemies. When we go to war, you go to war. If you, um, if it's a vassal relationship, I, we require that you pay so much tribute this often, and these are the conditions. And then with that, it has the document says, uh, from, from this Hittite treaty, moreover, let someone read these, read the, this tablet, which I have made for the three times every year. So as we look at the old Testament as a covenant, and we look at the new Testament as a covenant, we look at the book of Mormon as covenants that God has made, or another word for covenant testaments.
Speaker 1 00:10:35 These testaments that God have made part of the stipulation is that they are renewed. They are refreshed that they are kept fresh, that you read them regularly. And then it has the name of the gods that are enforcing it. And then it has the curses and the blessings that are associated with said covenant. So it kind of outlines all of this in this legal document, and it's very similar to what, what God's going to be doing. But part of this treaty is the idea that to consummate it, where it's not a marriage contract, you're not talking about knowing in a sense to, to, to make this type of covenant, a treaty, or these covenants with God, it required sacrifice. And you would take these animals and you would cut them in half, which is part of why covenants have to be cut. You cut the animals in half, you slide the two halves apart.
Speaker 1 00:11:28 And then the weaker party of the two is required to pass through the pieces of the two animals. So if a larger country has, has accepted a vassal kingdom, they've come, they've conquered. And they say, look, we will offer you protection. We will offer you our soldiers. And we will, we will help offer law and enforcement and order in exchange. You will, you will send us your, when we need to fight, you will send us this much grain, this much tribute. And if you don't then just like these two pieces that have been cut and separated that you are walking through, may you be cut and separated and cut off from the land destroyed? So this is how covenants were made in the ancient world. And we'll see Abraham making this covenant. It's a very beautiful passage of scripture because as he prepares the various animals and cuts them in half, he sits and tends them to keep the birds away, the flies away, because he's waiting for God to show up and establish this covenant with him.
Speaker 1 00:12:35 So it's, it's a very neat passage. But aside from just the Abrahamic covenant, I want to show you where this covenant has direct impact in Israel and even in our lives today and where we see it in some other scriptures, Israel, when they come into the land of promise, they pass through two mountains and they have six tribes go on the peak of one mountain. And these six tribes read out the cursings and then they have six other tribes come over on the other mountain and they read forth the blessings. And then Israel passes between the two mountains and just like the animal being cut in half. In this sense, it's the land that's cut in half. And it says, these are the conditions of the covenant that God is establishing with Israel. They will be my people and exchange. They will worship me. I will protect them.
Speaker 1 00:13:30 I will take care of them, but they will worship me. They will say they will not have any other gods and so on. So forth the love Moses. And if they break the conditions of this covenant, this cutting, then just as the land is separated and pulled apart, may they be torn out of the land in which they live? May they be separated? And you see that with the Assyrians coming in and pulling Israel up into the lands of the north. And you see the Babylonians coming in and pulling Judah out of the land into, into Babylon because they failed to live up to their terms of their, their covenant.
Speaker 1 00:14:11 When the saints came to Utah, you have this very similar Israel like setting where you have this dead sea of salt. You have this river Jordan, and you have the fresh lake sea, uh, the Utah lake. And they have to come through immigration canyon, where again, they're passing through two different mountains and they're reestablishing Israel and the Israel at covenant with God, as they're coming into this, this promised land is kind of neat that way. We see it in the book of Mormon with the title of Liberty when Merona takes his coat. And he writes on it, the terms of this in memory of our God, of our, of our children, of our freedom, we're covenanting to protect these values. And if we fail to do so, may we be destroyed? And it's interesting cause he takes his coat after writing it and he Rens it. He rips the coat and then he throws the rent coat. It gets trampled under feet of the people, right? This is a covenant, a cutting they're taking it, they're ripping it. And if they live up to it made their lives, their freedom, their wives be protected. And if not, may, it all be destroyed.
Speaker 1 00:15:26 And perhaps the most personal sign of this covenant making that we miss in, in our everyday lives is on Sunday. When we sit in church and the priest takes the bread, a symbol of the body of Christ and tears, it cuts it. And, and the covenant there is that if we take upon us the name of Christ, and if we follow him and keep his commandments, that, that we will be saved like him, that he will present us to the father, that we will be a toned. But if not, as it says in doctrine and covenants 19, may we have to suffer. Even as he did, may our bodies be broken, may we have to go through what he went through? So we see this same old Testament, covenant pattern that's established in, in societies, outside of the Bible. That's established with Noah, which established with Abraham. It plays throughout history and, and it comes down even to our own modern times. We still see it. And in fact, when you hear the term cut a deal, that's where it comes from this idea that a covenant requires a cutting an order to establish this pact. I don't know, the night that accident
Speaker 2 00:16:51 Playing that. All right. I think that's fantastic. And I'm, I mean, again, not to get like too, like hyper graphic or anything like that, but like even you said like the way that marriage was consummated, right? Like there was blood involved in that because there was still a cutting or a separating, even in that process as well to that God, I mean, when, when Jesus died was the temple, the veil was rent. Right. Um, you have so many examples of this. I feel like it's, it's, it's a pretty, you know, it's some pretty incredible imagery that, like you said, I think maybe the only question would be is like, why
Speaker 1 00:17:36 It's a good question. And I
Speaker 2 00:17:38 Think, I mean, you it's like something it's, it's like in a weird sort way. It's like, why does there need to be like this violent thing that has to accompany? You know what I mean, other than is it, is it for the illustration of, if one side of this does not hold up their end, this violence comes back to you.
Speaker 1 00:17:58 I think there's a couple parts to this one that an animal is sacrificed or a life has to be given in order for that covenant to be established, particularly in the sense of treaties, a treaty did not come simply because one country came to the other one and said, I'm bigger than you let's let's make this deal. It's because one country came and fought with the other one and subjected them and lives were lost and let's remember the lives were lost and let's, let's, let's try to make those lives sacred and, and, and mean something that there's going to becoming a higher order out of this and, and an understanding so that more lives aren't going to be lost. And in a greater sense that through the blood of Christ, can these covenants be made because if it wasn't for a God that was sacrificed, we have no, no hope of obtaining these blessings. It was because of the blood that was shed that this covenant can stand. It was because of the atonement that we can hope for this great blessing. Was it not for the sacrifice of a life, the life of a God, there would be no reason or claim legal claim, right. For us to have any of this.
Speaker 2 00:19:15 Awesome. I think, I think that's very thorough and very well-explained. And,
Speaker 1 00:19:21 And in some cases where it didn't involve animal sacrifice, you would have like a stick and you take that stick and you would write the terms on both sides or the terms of them. And then you would break the stick and the two parties would keep it. So you're still cutting it. But then it as proof that that's the treaty, you can take the two and they matched together. So the two different paths, if you kind of see that in maybe a more hokey sense today with like the lockets that, that you have, or like a broken heart over the two heart halves fit together. Right. But I also think I, and you kind of brought this back to the marriage for what it's worth in the very beginning, God made Eve by cutting him, excuse me, cutting her from Adam. This idea that this cutting the separation, that Eve came from flesh.
Speaker 1 00:20:15 This is bone of my bone and flesh of my flesh, that there was the separation and that together, they become one again, this restoration that this cutting this marriage, covenant, that these two halves can reunite and joined themselves in intimacy becoming one. And that when they come together, this covenant relationship, they're reminded of that covenant relationship. It's in very much establishing a new covenant that by me coming and giving part of my life to you, or by coming and receiving part of your life, as you put it in me, that we covenant to be together to bring life into this world. And there's a whole lot that goes with that act, this idea that this is a sacrament, a very sacred, special relationship, a renewing of something that from the very beginning, these two halves were meant to be together, to be joined together that they were cut apart, but they are meant to be restored renewed.
Speaker 2 00:21:15 Well, and even the language that we've talked about before, where we're where a man is commanded to cleave unto his wife, like even that word again, Cleve hints back at that, that cutting that cutting. And, and like you said, that that to cleave unto each other, to be able to be separated or cut off, um, you know, from the other less important things too, like you said, also come back together to really sit in and participate in, in godliness, right? Like, like the act of creation. And, and even as you're just saying that just the last couple things, it just makes you think of the creation, the separation of light and dark, the separation of land and sea, just so much of the, so much of the creative and the creation process is a cutting or a separation. I think that that may be even as that final bit of insight, to the idea of, of why a covenant is involved or a cutting is involved or a separation is involved in a covenant.
Speaker 1 00:22:18 Excellent insight.
Speaker 2 00:22:20 Sweet. Sorry. Anything else you want to add to this? Or should we move on?
Speaker 1 00:22:24 Maybe the only thing there's also, there's also some tie-ins to these words with, with eating, not just cutting, but because you're cutting with your teeth, they, they have a sense of eating. Okay. And oftentimes with sacrificed or with the covenant making, there's a feast involved or, or, uh, uh, a sacramental, if you will, uh, uh, partaking of food and the idea that you're joining with another party and sharing food with them to establish this covenant. And oftentimes the priest in the temple, the, someone would bring their offering and the priest would, would take a piece of that meat and eat it representative of God after was burned, right? Yeah. After, yeah, after it's burned, he take this into the burnt offering, your altered offered on the author, you burn it, but you then share this meal with God, God takes part of it. And whether it's the burnt part, that's going up as smoke as a sweet savor unto the Lord. As we'll see, as we get into this with temple talk later on through the year, or whether it's the priest who's partaking of that meal on part of the people while the smoke goes to God, or the priest is taking on the role of God eating part of this food while the people take their part, and they share in this together that there's something about sharing a meal together that solidifies this covenant relationship.
Speaker 2 00:23:43 I mean, how much of that is still just so much part of our culture even now, though. Yes. Which I love by the way, which is part of the reason that
Speaker 1 00:23:50 You have your wedding feasts, you, we eat when, when it comes to Christmas, when it comes to Thanksgiving, when it comes to any kind of,
Speaker 2 00:23:57 So many of our holidays are accompanied with a meal. And that's really great insight as to why
Speaker 1 00:24:02 That is too. And, and it's a good segue into the next part. I want to talk about going to Abraham. We're going to talk about him. But part of understanding him is understanding his youth and where he comes from. And the book of Abraham gives us some insight when it talks about his dad, sending him to a priest to be sacrificed. And, and you don't see that anywhere in the book of Genesis, but you do find it and all sorts of extra biblical sources to validate it and come back and say, you know, Joseph Smith got this right to say what you want about him. When he talks about Abraham being offered as a sacrifice when he was younger, there's, there's some validity to that statement. So I want to go to the story of Abraham as a youth, because we don't see that here in, in Genesis.
Speaker 1 00:24:49 We're not going to see that in the book of Abraham, but it does fit well with the story. And it gives us a window, a peek into who he was. So his father would build idols. He would build gods. And, and at this time it's not too far after the flood. It's not too far after the tower of Babel. In fact, some stories put the tower of Babel at the same time of when Abraham was fairly young. So he would have been alive at the tower of bevel, according to some, some datings. But as, as they, as Nimrod was very influential and as the power started to spread, they started to believe in creating all of these idols and all of these gods. And Abraham's father had built all sorts of gods and had kind of his own little sanctuary, if you will, where he had the head, God, the father God's sitting at the top and all of these other gods subservient to them in this idea, it's cool in the ancient world, for what it's worth, you would have a father of the gods, and you would have the children of the gods, the Benet Elohim, and the children of the gods, where the council of God.
Speaker 1 00:25:49 So you had this father and this, this council assembly that w always associated with, with this polytheism back then, anyhow, Abraham being curious, and it's, it's tells us in the book of Abraham, he wanted to know who God was, where he came from. He had greater questions, and he wanted to know more about the priesthood and where this came from and where it's going. And he goes to his dad and asks him and his dad tells him about these, these gods and introduces them to all these idols. So Abraham concocts this plan. He goes to his mom and his mom kind of plays favorites. She likes Abraham and Annie, and she prepares him some savory meat. It says, and he takes this savory meat. And he puts it down in front of all of the gods. And as he sits there and he studies them, it says, these, these gods are, are dumb.
Speaker 1 00:26:42 They're they're just made out of wood. They're not, they're not going to do anything. So Abraham then takes an ax and he goes through and just destroys all of them, except for the father. God, he hatches them, all destroys them. And then he puts the acts in the hands of the head, God. And then his dad comes by and Abraham still sitting in the room with the gods. And he says, Abraham, what have you done? And Abraham says, what do you, what do you mean me? I'll tell you exactly what I did. I grabbed the savory meat. I put it in front of all of the gods and all of these little gods stretched out their hands to eat the meat before the big God. And the big God was jealous that they wouldn't wait for him. So he slaughtered them all with the ax and his dad says, what, what are you talking about?
Speaker 1 00:27:31 I made these with my own hands they're wood. They're dumb. They can't do anything. And then Abraham says, that's my point? Why are you worshiping them? Yeah, boom. He, he kind of drops the truth bomb on his dad. And he falls out of favor a little bit there. And, and, and his dad, part of this thing is Abraham resent represents a push for worshiping the one, true God. And he gets subjected to he's taken to the priest to be destroyed because he is trying, he represents a challenge to the, this new authority, this different gods. And he's challenging these gods. And, and that puts him on the outs where he's going to be offered as a sacrifice. Okay. So Abraham has to flee his, his childhood. His father comes with them for part of the journey. He makes it to Heran. And it's interesting. His father doesn't leave past Heran.
Speaker 1 00:28:30 Abraham keeps going with his nephew lot down into land of Canaan. And some scholars look at that and say, this represents that, that his dad at some times had the right heart, but just couldn't commit all the way. Couldn't make the full journey all the way down to the promised land, where Abraham was willing to take the whole journey. One cool thing in the book of Abraham, it does say that God calls Abraham to go down and to teach the people and to minister to them. And when you go into the book of Genesis, even in the book of Abraham, it doesn't talk about that too much. Or his role as a minister. Instead, you kind of get this, this brooding character that's sitting alone in his tent somewhere. That's not doing a whole lot to try to save people. If you will. He's not like the Noah that's going out and trying to preach the gospel to everyone.
Speaker 1 00:29:21 However, in some of these accounts is talks about Noah in, in Huron because of his morals, because of how he lives and the way he deals with people, dealing justly, he stands out and his religious beliefs stands out and he's constantly referred to as a stranger in a foreign land. And he doesn't just assimilate himself into the people. And I think we'll talk about this a little bit more as we get into the lot and the decisions that he makes. But because Abraham stands out in Huron, the text says that a lot of people came to Abraham and asked him about what he believed in, asked him about his, his understanding, his background and who he was and why he was the way he was. And Abraham ministered to a lot of people to where he gathered a large following of people that came with him.
Speaker 1 00:30:12 So when we get to the story of Abraham going to rescue lot from the Kings that went to battle against the Kings of Sodom and the Kings of Gomorrah, Abraham has with him, an army of people to go and serve. And you have to wonder, where did this army of people come? Abraham doesn't force anyone to go with him. He calls for volunteers and he gets over 300 men willing to volunteer with them. And if you're talking about men, women, and children, only 300 plus, they're just volunteers. Most likely Abraham's group consists of well over 600 people. So he's he's, and, and we're talking about a time that's transitioning from the patriarch period where, where you have no real rules. Everyone just lives a good life by themself. Well, after the flood, now, all of a sudden people are worried about the chaos. Would they know if we descend into chaos and the world becomes chaos, that God's going to let chaos reign and the world's going to get destroyed in order to protect the world from death and destruction.
Speaker 1 00:31:18 Again, we need to impose order on it. And you start to see the rise of kingdoms. Now, instead of just this patriarchal line, you'll have the kingdom of the Canaanites, the kingdom of the Babylonians, the Assyrians, the Egyptians, all of these nations start popping up and the Kings are claiming their right to rule from God to impose order, to keep an ensure that people don't descend back into chaos. It's their duty to represent God and impose order Abraham, not wanting to necessarily be part of some other kingdom. He's trying to find the kingdom of God, almost like the kingdom of Enoch, right? This, this once was lost. That was his line, going back through sham, to Noah, to everybody, where is this? And how do I find it? And that's where all of these promises from God are going to come and sing through your seed.
Speaker 1 00:32:10 I will create this new kingdom. And that's what that's, what's going to be so important in these scriptures. We're talking about it over and over again, through your seed, through your seed. And it's important to note that his wife, Sarah is barren. So, so he does have this large following. He is building his own nation, but he doesn't have his own dynasty yet. He doesn't have his own kingdom. And this is going to be kind of the adventure of how he gets there. And maybe we should, uh, maybe we should talk about survi Sarah for a minute. Cause it says here in Genesis, and when it goes through the different lines and it mentions Abraham, it says, and his wife, Sarah, Sarah was barren. And that's an important distinction. Then a lot is said about Sariah and a lot of sadness about this barrenness versus having this children.
Speaker 1 00:33:05 And a lot has also said by the way, about how beautiful she is. So Nate, do you want me to throw this at you? Like what, what is the significance of being barren or why be barren or what do you take out of being barren? Or do you want me to run with this saw you baby boy, to me, let's go to Abraham of, is the Hebrew for father rom is the Hebrew for exalted. So is his name means exalted father. And if we try to think of who is the exalted father, well, God, God is the one who's got his exaltation. He is the father of all. Abraham is symbolic of God. And if Abraham is symbolic of God, who is to groom, the husband, then Sariah in this case is going to be symbolic of Israel or the church, right? She's the churches, the bride.
Speaker 1 00:34:07 And it's really cool. You see this, you see the symbolism in Isaiah when, when it talks about Christ on the cross, and it says, who shall declare his generation for? He was cut off from the land of the living. Who's going to declare the begetting of Christ who began after Christ. There is no beginning. He was cut off from the land of the living. But when you shall make his soul an offering for sin, then he shall see his seed. Even though he was cut off, he has seed posterity that are born to him, God, through the atonement because you make his soul, an offering for sin. He gave his life to his bride, the pride being the church and the church is able to bear offspring through the life of Christ, through the blood of Christ and the atonement through these covenants, the yadda, the getting to know that, that the covenant relationship with the church and Christ powers the bride to be able to have children so that as you go into Isaiah 54 more are the children of the Baron than the married wife.
Speaker 1 00:35:19 This, this Baron that couldn't have children. Now that Christ has given his life is going to empower the church. That by herself cannot have children, but with God now is able to have children and not just children, but a never ending supply of children. As the stars of the universe are the sands of the sea. You shall not be able to number them because there is no end to their increase, its internal increase. So I think that's the significance of, of Sarah. And you look at their names because their names are going to get changed. Abra, meaning exalted father. But when he is going to now have a child who God keeps promising that this is going to be the seed he's his name has changed to have Roham OV still means father, but Roham instead of rom means multitude. So he becomes father of a multitude and Sariah means my princess, but her name is changed to Sarah, which is just princess.
Speaker 1 00:36:27 So now it's not just Abraham's princess, she's the princess for all of the offspring that's going to come. So the name shift is not just accelerated father and my princess, this relationship with the two of them. But now it's a relationship with their seed, a father of a multitude and a princess over a multitude that now they're going to have an increase that never ends. So it's kind of a, kind of an interesting deal. And you look at Abraham's life and his relationship with Sarah and you will see the entire history of Israel play out. Here's what I mean when Abraham first, he's going to go into the land of Egypt, just like, and, and why is he going into the land of Egypt? Because there's a famine in the land and the Lord commands him to go down there. And he goes into the land of Egypt and his wife is taken from him by Pharaoh who tries to marry her, but can't take her to bed.
Speaker 1 00:37:31 He has some problems there. The Lord sends plagues. And because of the plagues, he reaches out to Abraham and says, what do I do? And he finds out it's Abraham's wife. It says here, take her and take all of our gold. Here's a bunch of money and leave. And Abraham becomes rich. What does that have to do with Israel? Israel against Sarah, the wife. She's going to go down into Egypt at the time of Joseph because of a famine in the land. And the edge Egyptians are going to try to, to, to be the husband, to get them, to worship their gods, to worship their Pharaoh so that when Moses comes and says, let my people come worship their own, God let the bride return to the husband. Pharaoh says, no, this is my bride, right? And it's going to take plagues and it's going to take disasters and then he's going to let him go.
Speaker 1 00:38:28 But when he lets him go, he's going to give them a lot of riches from, from Egypt as well. We'll see that when we get to Exodus and they'll out of the land, back into the land of Canaan, and then you're going to have this repeat, except for the second time, Abraham goes into the land of Babylon and then what happens? The same thing. Babylon tries to take his wife and, and Abraham is able to get his wife back and come back out of, out of Babylon. So looking at this, the history of Israel, the history of Lord's people, his church, his bride here on earth, after they go back to Canaan established their land. And by the way, going back, there's going to be some fighting. There's going to be some violence. It's going to be something to create their, their land. Then there's going to be this Babylonian period where they're going to be pulled out.
Speaker 1 00:39:16 And again, they're going to be tempted. What happened with, with Daniel Meeshack, Shadrach, and Abednego. And they're told that they have to worship the Babylonian gods and they have to. So they're trying to take the bride and make her the husband of the Babylonian gods. And then by a strong hand, God is going to send into Persians and going to liberate them. And they're going to return back to Israel. So if you want to know the whole history of God's bride Israel here on earth, look at Abraham and Sariah. They're prophetic. Their life is going to forecast the whole rest of the Bible and what's going to happen. It's amazing. Okay.
Speaker 1 00:39:58 Sarah is described as extremely beautiful and I think that's important as well. And not only is she described as extremely beautiful. I have here a description from the dead sea scrolls. I'm not going to read the whole thing. I'll just read the description of the guards because this, this plays prominently in a couple different texts. Uh, one of the, the, one of the Egyptian guard says how excellent and beautiful is the expression on her face? How pleasing and how delicate is the hair on her head? How beautiful are her eyes? How pleasing is her nose and all the bloom of her face? How lovely is her breast and how beautiful is all her fairness, her arms, how beautiful her hands, how perfect any glimpse of her hands is to be desired? How lovely are her palms and how long her thighs? No maiden, oh, excuse me.
Speaker 1 00:40:52 I skipped a line. How long and slender are all the fingers of her hands, her feet, how beautiful and how perfect are her thighs? No maidens or brides who entered to the bridal chamber are more beautiful than she is. The beautifulness of her. Beauty is superior to that of all other women. And her beauty is high above all of them. And with all this beauty, she possesses much wisdom. And the work of her hand is beautiful. So this is what the guards are saying in front of Pharaoh. And Pharaoh is like, whoa, I need her. And, and Abraham's kind of warned that this is going to happen and warn that if he says that he's her husband, that there, that Pharaoh will have him killed so that she can, he can have her as a wife. That's how beautiful she is. Just to give you an idea. And so the Bible says she's beautiful, but these other texts not only say how beautiful she is, but many different texts. Talk about how they just, they just go crazy for how beautiful she is. And, and Abraham, by the way, is not lying by saying that she's his sister, oddly enough, because she is Tara's daughter from a different mother. So Abraham's married to a step sister. So, so Abraham's not lying. It's almost like on a resume for work. If you, if you,
Speaker 2 00:42:17 Oh, no. I'm interested in to seeing where this is going, please, please tell us about how you can lie on a location for work. Keep going.
Speaker 1 00:42:26 It's not that you lie, it's that you choose to emphasize different experience, right? If you, if you've got some experience working with this versus some other experience working with that, and depending on what kind of job you're looking for, maybe you highlight this experience that you have, because you're, you're only limited to one page here. Let's, let's highlight the experience relevant to this and tell that side of the story and maybe cut some of this part out. I don't know.
Speaker 2 00:42:55 So basically on all my job interviews, I just tell them I'm an Eagle scout and that means I'm supposed to get the job. Right. So they tell you,
Speaker 1 00:43:06 I don't think so, Tim. All right.
Speaker 2 00:43:07 So right. Um, it is interesting. That is interesting that, that I love how they, uh, I love, I love your analogy of you just, you just leave out a couple of the other really important details just so that you, uh, don't get killed, but yes. All right. So she's a babe, she's a babe good work. Abraham.
Speaker 1 00:43:29 Why, why do they make such a big deal out of her being beautiful?
Speaker 2 00:43:34 I mean, apparently she's beautiful enough to celebrate. So, I mean, I don't know.
Speaker 1 00:43:40 I am going back again to this idea that Israel or the church is beautiful. I think there should be beauty in the church and it should be celebrated. There is something beautiful about a church that allows for us to be born again, to make these covenants with God that has this priesthood that's restored, that allows us to, to participate in that salvation, to preach the gospel, to stand up and give talks as imperfect as we are, as much as we stumble to be able to share how we feel and teach each other and work. I think there's real beauty in that.
Speaker 2 00:44:20 Okay.
Speaker 1 00:44:24 I don't think I've got you convinced on that one.
Speaker 2 00:44:26 I don't think you've got me convinced on that one either, but let's just keep going.
Speaker 1 00:44:30 Well, and Lord talks about arise, put on your beautiful garments and, and when he talks about Israel, in the sense that she's been on, on, on unfaithful to him, he says he discovers her nakedness. Not, not in the sense of discovering her nakedness of having a fare, but actually stripping all of these beautiful ornaments offer. Cause he says, I have cut off your profit from the land and your teachers and your wise people. And he talks about all of these people and in comparison to your sounding brass and your tinkling and your whatever else, ornaments that you're wearing. Right? Sure. And as he strips all of them off and discovers her nakedness and you almost kind of coming back to this, this sin that, that you, the church involves herself in like Adam and Eve, she now finds herself naked in the garden. Maybe discovering her own naked, this and saying, I have, I have been wrong.
Speaker 1 00:45:25 And the Lord is going to take his beautiful bride and say, you know, you are put on your beautiful ornaments, put on your beautiful coverings, put on your, in the sense of calling a prophet in a restored dispensation where he has someone that's speaking the word of the Lord, who, who has guidance, who has people that are filled with the spirit. And, and that's where the beauty comes is when the spirit illuminates you in the spirit guides you, that this bride, when, when guided by the spirit, I don't know that there's anything more beautiful than, than that. Okay.
Speaker 2 00:46:01 I'm with you on that.
Speaker 1 00:46:02 I think that's the significance of Sarah's beauty.
Speaker 2 00:46:05 Everybody's just freaking stoked on Sarah. And it's just like, this is a beauty we're celebrating through the history of time. And in that case, I'm like, all right, I'm down, celebrate it.
Speaker 1 00:46:17 Let's keep going. Let's keep rolling with this. The next one is Abraham has to go fight for it. Well, Abraham's taking his nephew lot. And when they get down into the land of Canaan, again, they're not there. They're not necessarily being governed by a king by kingdom. And they start to have their own disputes. Lot's herdsmen are fighting with Abraham's herdsmen because they're growing. Abraham's got a huge number of people with them and it's causing problems. Abraham doesn't want to fight. And so he takes lot and says, look, we're family. We love each other. There's no reason for us to fight over this. There's plenty of land. Tell me where you want to go. You take the land that you want and I will separate and take the other land. What, what would you like? And lot looks at all of the land. And he takes the choices.
Speaker 1 00:47:13 The one that looks the greenest, the one that's going to be the most beautiful that's that's next to Sodom. And he goes, and he takes this land and he even pitches his tent towards Sodom. And so Abraham separates himself and to kind of this desert area, that's not quite as lush, not quite as, quite as promising. And he establishes himself here. And at this time he builds an altar to the Lord and praise the Lord and the Lord promises him that he will inherit the land. He will prosper land. And he can, you have these blessings of Abraham going to have seed, even though up to this point, he doesn't have children. Now I think, I think this is something you wanted to jump in on Nate.
Speaker 2 00:47:54 Yeah, I kinda did, but I don't know if I want to, oh my goodness. I do appreciate Abraham in this circumstance. And again, I, I, I do your wife made a great comment today in church about how Abraham had the faith of knowing that he was living right. And that God was going to prosper him wherever he was. Right. And there, I think there is a fantastic lesson to be learned from that. I, I know I, I have talked a lot, probably even on this podcast about when I was quitting my day-to-day job. Um, I kind of had a sit down meeting with my, with the owner of the company and my boss, and he was really encouraging. And, and he basically said, you know, you, I believe that as long as you're doing everything you can to live the way that you're supposed to, you have the right to call an on God to prosper you and sustain you in whatever it is that you're doing.
Speaker 2 00:48:53 And I've, I've tried to take that very seriously. And, and I actually have a pretty deep testimony of that. Right. And so there is, there is something that I actually love about that part of this too, but unfortunately it also kind of just gives you a little bit of insight into lot. That's maybe not the most flattering. Is that fair? Yeah, I think so. And, um, and as we're going to learn a little bit later, too, and again, I don't want to jump the gun too much. There is something to be said for, for Abraham, always being willing to be a peculiar people, right. And to be a stranger in a strange land and where as these stories kind of continue where lot almost kind of assimilates himself into a more wicked city and a wicked culture and is totally, I guess, fine with his kids, marrying people outside of the covenant, but not just outside of the covenant, but like wicked people outside of the covenant and, um, establishes himself, you know, in a city, as a judge or, or somebody that's, uh, sits at the gate.
Speaker 2 00:50:02 I don't remember the exact phrase that, that I was reading about, but where Abraham is recognized throughout the rest of his life as a God-fearing, you know, chosen son of God, even by people that are maybe not religious, or definitely don't believe the same thing that Abraham does, he's respected because he is willing to be, um, righteous and, and separate and live what he believes and have people have no doubt about that. Where lot kind of is more of the, I don't know, he's not as committed. He's definitely not as, um, he's not as focused on, on trying to be a peculiar person and almost kind of assimilates himself. And I think that there's, there's some pretty amazing lessons to be learned in that too, of how you look at the respect that Abraham has versus the respect that law has. And, uh, this, this might be, this might be down the road, but maybe it's just something to keep in mind kind of, as we're reading, uh, you know, going through the next few weeks worth of this,
Speaker 1 00:51:09 I love the insight and I Abraham saved lot.
Speaker 2 00:51:15 Oh yeah. Like literally salmon. Yeah.
Speaker 1 00:51:17 He brought him down and he saved him physically from dying, but spiritually in, in restoring the truth and restoring this, this true God worship. And eventually as you're alluding to, he's going to save him from Sodom and Gomorrah. And the destruction that comes from, from wickedness is consequences. And he would have every right to say a lot, being his nephew, look, I'm older. I, I, I deserve this. I've brought you with me. I am going to take the land that looks best for me. And I want you to go and take this land by Abraham. It shows a lot of his character to put others first. And we'll see that when he goes to save law and, and lot having the opportunity to choose if you have the first choice and you really are grateful to your uncle that did everything, wouldn't you be?
Speaker 2 00:52:15 You'd be more cool than that. Cause he was not cool about
Speaker 1 00:52:18 This. Yeah. Like here, uncle, you've done a lot for me. I want to show my appreciation. Why don't you take the more Greenland
Speaker 2 00:52:25 Take this great spot. Honestly. I appreciate everything you've done. Just throw me, throw me the scraps and I'll be stoked.
Speaker 1 00:52:32 Um, and because I know if I need help, I can come back because you've helped me. How many times before? Yes. But he kind of takes full advantage of it puts himself first where Abraham's willing to put everyone else first. And we see that and it works out to Abraham's advantage because lot joining himself to Sodom now, because he owns land there there's legal obligations to Saddam and he's associated with this. Then Saddam has an agreement with a larger empire with kettle Lamar who has been ruling them for 15 years. As we talked about these treaties at the very beginning, these Hittite treaties and their treaty is that they have to pay so much tribute to this larger kingdom. Well, after 15 years they decide, you know what? We don't want to pay this anymore. We don't think that that this is a good relationship anymore.
Speaker 1 00:53:31 We're bigger, we're stronger. We don't have to pay them. So they rebel and the king comes down, kettle Lamar and wipes them out and he takes it. Okay. I was going to take a portion, but now I'm taking all of you. And you're all coming with me to my kingdom. So he raised Sodom and Gomorrah. He raids all of these cities. He takes the people captive and he takes all of their treasure and their gold and their possessions and whatever else. And their army is on their merit March back up to their land and Abraham gets wind of this. And so he goes to the people that are following him. And he says, I need volunteers whose, who wants to come. And this is the first recorded, ever special ops mission. Yeah, baby in the Bible. And he takes these trained men of war, about 300.
Speaker 1 00:54:24 And they go at nightfall and, and these people, they just won the war. They've been celebrating. They have a feast debauchery and they're passed out drunk. And in the night while they're passed out Abraham and his man slay them, defeat the Kings and restore Sodom and Gomorrah and a bunch of other Kings, their kingdoms. And that is coming back from victory here. You're also going to see the characteristics of two other people, similar to Abraham and lot. And that's Mel Castic king of Salem versus the king of Sodom. Mel Kazic comes and brings bread and wine and blesses Abraham you're. You're great. You're powerful. Thank you. This is yours. , doesn't ask for anything in exchange and still Abraham pays his tithes to him because he's a righteous king. And then in contrast you have the king of Sodom who tries to make this sound like it's a good deal. He says, look, you can keep all of the gold, all of the silver, all of the possessions, whatever, but let me keep the people. The people are mine. And any think about this from a business standpoint, what's the better model paying, paying money up front, even if it's more money or to have the residual income through taxation and whatever else for the next 20 years and labor and all,
Speaker 2 00:55:57 All of those other things, like the means of creation and not just
Speaker 1 00:56:01 One time payment. Yes. The resources, the abilities, the growth, the families, all of the above. Okay. And Abraham says, you can, you can keep the people and you can keep the loot. And by the way, Abraham, the king has no righteous claim to any of the booty, right? He didn't, he lost, it's not his he's an out. So it might sound like fairness on his part. Like, oh, you can have the gold and I'll keep no he's out. He's entitled to zero. This is all Abrahams. And Abraham not only says I don't want the people, but he says, I don't want the booty filthy Luker. He says, I don't want anyone saying that. It's because of them that I was made rich. It's only God that's going to like it. I love it. I don't want you taking credit for God. Blessing me. Okay. This is great.
Speaker 1 00:56:56 And it's also, like I said, Abraham's life is a prophecy, right? When Israel comes out of Egypt, they go in there and they are commanded by Moses. And Joshua do not take one piece of booty from the lands that you conquer. God is going to make you rich, not these people. And I don't want you profiting off of them. And remember, there's one guy that kind of steals something and hides it in his tent and they find out and we'll, we'll get to that story. Kind of a cool story, but that's lay the old Testament. Okay. But it's a foreshadow and, and Abraham again, in his goodness, overly generous. He has a claim on the people and the gold. And he says, no, I'm not going to lean on men to make me rich. I'm going to lean on God to, to establish it because he promised me seed.
Speaker 1 00:57:44 He's still waiting for that child that has yet to come. Okay. And it, it, it deserves some mention here, even if I haven't quite pieced this all together and maybe I'll leave this to a lot of you, the listeners to help me piece this together. This theme is one of the most common themes and not just the scriptures, but literature in medieval times and in English themes, that, that is the theme of the feast where you drink and you pass out and you die. In fact, there was a guy that wrote a paper on this and he entitled it dying for a drink. And he says, it's so common. He's in, he's not writing about hearing the Genesis account. He's writing about the old English in particular bale Wolf. And you know, the story of bale Wolf, Nate, I do. And it's such a common, it happens five different times and the story of bale Wolf, where they are in the grand hall and they have a feast and the enemy comes on them or, or Granville, the monster comes on them and kills them.
Speaker 1 00:58:48 And they die during their night while they're sleeping, it's, it's drink, sleep and die. And, and it doesn't just happen over five times in Beowulf, it happens in, in the Odyssey with Agamemnon, with the suitors at the end, over six times in there. It's just a very common theme. You see it, Noah getting drunk after the flood passing out. And then the bad thing that happens with him, uh, you're going to see it throughout the scriptures. Uh Neefa if you want to take a reference to the book of Mormon, when Laban gets drunk, passed out, and then he gets his head cut off, that's almost drinking combined with sleeping equals death. It's it's scary. It's scary. Why is it such a common theme? What, what, why is it going to be repeated and throughout the scriptures throughout literature throughout all times, is it, is it a lesson on overindulgence? Is it lesson on temperance and control and making sure that it's measured and I don't know, you just going to say anything.
Speaker 2 00:59:49 I was just going to say, you'd kind of mentioned earlier. It's just the eat drink and be Merry for tomorrow. We could die.
Speaker 1 00:59:55 Yeah. It gives you a whole new appreciation for that line.
Speaker 2 00:59:58 Yeah, too, because tomorrow there's a very real chance. We all get killed tonight. Afterward drunk party.
Speaker 1 01:00:03 It is eat, drink and be Merry for tomorrow. We die. In fact, binge drinking along without somebody coming and killing you sometimes ends up in death.
Speaker 2 01:00:14 That term is used as a, uh, as a temptation from Satan. Right. And that's like, Hey, live life to the fullest. Because, because, uh, you never know when it's gonna end or it's probably gonna end tomorrow anyways, but it does actually make you rethink that, that rethink that statement even a little bit too. Um, but yeah, I don't know. That's interesting.
Speaker 1 01:00:35 I was talking to mark, a friend of mine about this and he was saying that, yeah, you see this all over in the medieval. I mean, go back to the Vikings, Valhalla the idea, the Mead, and you drink and you go and you celebrate and dying in battle as a glorious death, where, what happens? You go right back to the same hall and you drink and whatever.
Speaker 2 01:00:52 That's like paradise for these guys. Yeah.
Speaker 1 01:00:54 That's, that's what it is. And if I get killed here in paradise, while I'm celebrating, well, it's just more celebrating in the hall. Like that's, that's life. That's all there is to it. But as I talk with him, he said, you know, you think about these battles. And, and we are so detached from death today. We don't even have to kill our own food. We go to the store and it's all packaged for us. Right? Yeah. And, and when we fight our wars today, you fight them from a distance. You look down a scope. When you pull a trigger, you're pressing a
Speaker 2 01:01:20 Button, you send a drone in, you send
Speaker 1 01:01:22 In a drone or drop a bomb or hit a button here, a trigger there and,
Speaker 2 01:01:26 Or just like cyber warfare. Yeah. You know? Exactly. Yeah.
Speaker 1 01:01:31 But back in this time, you're going with these people and you're looking them in the eyes when you kill them and to get people excited for that, or, or riled up to be able to commit these atrocities or do these hard things that you normally wouldn't do to get the drums beating in your bud, your blood boiling. And to get you stirred up in a fervor that you can go in to battle and fight these wars, hand to hand you're so junked up or, or
Speaker 2 01:02:02 You almost have to get rid of a little bit of the, you have to get rid of the governor a little bit.
Speaker 1 01:02:06 Yeah. And, and it almost takes drinking to kind of calm that back down. Interesting. Bring you back down to earth. And at that point, you're in, you're in a stupor you're, you're so worn out and just the range of emotions and what you're feeling and what you're doing
Speaker 2 01:02:22 Is you just want to disconnect.
Speaker 1 01:02:24 Yeah. And it doesn't matter if you're going to die that night. I mean, that's that interesting kind of a bleak vehicle life, but the last, the last thing I'll say about this and I'll move on as, as evil as that pattern seems, I would like to remind you that Christ the night before he dies, holds a feast in which he drinks with his apostles and says, this is the last time I will drink of the vine until I come again. Right. And here he is eating and drinking and being married with his apostles at the same night that he's sentenced to die at the same night that he's brought before the court and the same night that he's going to get 70 and having his life crushed out of him. And maybe as we've been talking about this, this dual nature of things and the imitation versus the real thing, maybe there's something more to it, even than that. And maybe there is something sacred about it that, that looks flimsy as you see the imitation. I don't know for what it's worth
Speaker 2 01:03:32 Something good for everybody to ponder. If you have any insights, please feel free to send it along to us in comments or emails. So, okay. Let's keep moving on. Yeah.
Speaker 1 01:03:41 And trying to be cognizant of time. I don't know. We've got like another two lessons we can do of Abraham. So if we're running tight, we can wrap some up into there.
Speaker 2 01:03:52 We're definitely running a little tight, but are there any other big highlights that, uh, that we need to hit on this week? We're not into, we're not into a, the binding of Isaac here, right? Not yet. Okay.
Speaker 1 01:04:03 I just want them to knock. We're not into the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah and we're not into the binding of Isaac.
Speaker 2 01:04:08 Okay. So what, is there anything else that we want to just touch on real quick before we wrap it up?
Speaker 1 01:04:13 Yeah. Last thing, uh, we'll put a bow on this and if, if we've missed anything from Abraham, we need to come back in the next week or so we can absolutely hit it. There is, there are documents, uh, from the practice of law and the ancient world. And, and it provides us with a lot of understanding or at least a context to what happens with Abraham. What do you look at Abraham and his wife being buried and not able to have children. And then she provides a handmaid Hagar to Abraham, for her to have a, for him to have a child with. And then Sarah is upset with the handmade and wants to get rid of her. Because now she seems like she's the, the, the, the real wife of the relationship and Sarah starts to feel like the handmade. And so she sends her out.
Speaker 1 01:04:58 It's kind of a weird story, I think, for us to wrap our minds around. But the cool thing is in a Syria, we have documents from the practice of law. And I have right here, a copy of a marriage contract dating to either the 12th or 13th century. So this is right the same time the Abraham was alive at the same place in the world where he was alive and, and looking at this contract, I think this will help us understand that story a lot better. It says lucky, poom. I don't know exactly how you're pronounced that. So we're just going with Lockie. Poom has married. Patala daughter of in the country. Lucky poom may not marry another woman, but in the city. So, so he can't marry another woman from outside of the city. Okay. He may marry a high real duel and a high real dual here in this case is, is like a concubine.
Speaker 1 01:05:59 He can have a wife, but she doesn't get first wife status. As long as she's from the city, she gets like a second wife status. If within two years, her Tala does not provide him with offspring. She herself will purchase a slave woman. And later on, after she will have produced a child by him, he may then dispose of her by cell where soever, he pleases. Now there's a footnote on he, when it says he may then dispose of her. And as she go to the footnote, it says the rendering is based on the fact that the pronoun and the verb are masculine. But considering that the masculine is also used throughout in the following two clauses, even when her Tala, the bride is clearly the subject of the first and the second, it might be presumed that she is the subject here also, which would configure better with the fact that it is she, who has to provide for the slave woman to begin with.
Speaker 1 01:06:58 So, going back, we're going to, we're going to read this as she, she may then dispose of her by cell where soever, he pleased she pleases should Lackey, Coombe, choose to divorce her. He must pay her five minus of silver and should her Tala choose to divorce him? She must pay five minus. She must pay him five minuses of silver witnesses, Masa, Asher, Rishi, um, Asher Riste call Taliah and Shoupy anicca. So it's cool that they have these witnesses as Cooley have this contract, but the terms of the contract dictate that if within two years she can't produce offspring for him. Then she is under financial obligation to hire a handmaid, to produce offspring. And when that handmade produces offspring, because she is the one financially obligated to provide the F the handmaid. She also has the say in what happens to the handmade. So go back to the story of Abraham.
Speaker 1 01:08:00 And you're like, well, that's weird that she would provide him with Hagar. That's nice of her to try to do that, knowing that she can't, it's not just a nicety. This was probably terms in the contract that she had signed based on that part of the world at that time that she had to pay for a handmaid to come in and provide a child. If she couldn't. And then you look at it and say, well, why wouldn't Abraham step in and keep Hagar? Well, Abraham is bound by the contract because she is the one that purchased the handmaid. She also has the say of what happens to the handmade once the offspring is produced. So that's why Abraham goes to her and says, what would you, what would you have done with her then it's up to Sariah or Sarah to choose the fate of the handmade. So I think looking at this legal text provides with a little more context to this world and understanding what's happening and realizing that this was the social terms of that time period, given their norms, given what they understood, that's how marriage worked in the ancient world.
Speaker 2 01:09:05 Well, it explains a lot explains, uh, also why, I mean, there was kind of a weird disconnect to that. It's been hard. I've, I've seen various explanations on like why Sarah would bring, um, this, uh, uh, do you pronounce it Hagar, Hagar? You know, I've heard it doesn't matter. So anyways, she brings in Hagai and is like, okay, cool. Um, did have a child with my husband. And then as soon as she does, like is immediately just like, actually now I'm I get out of here. And you're like, oh, man, that, that flipped really quick, but this would at least add a lot of context to that and maybe help explain that probably quite a bit better.
Speaker 1 01:09:44 Yeah. And I, we are so far removed from that world. It's we look at it in terms of, of how we understand things today. And I don't know that they did everything right, but that, that was the social structure, the social fabric. That was the laws of the land. It's kind of interesting. And we'll see, some of those laws provide some context for some of the negotiations that Abraham does with his neighbors later when he's looking to buy property. Cool.
Speaker 2 01:10:12 All right. Um, we'll be continuing on, I'm assuming with Abraham next week, right?
Speaker 1 01:10:17 Yeah. We're good to Abraham. He entertains three holy man. And gets the promise with Isaac. It's a little bit into this week's lesson, but because Isaac and the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah, I, I feel like we just need to wrap it into next week. We've got too much, too much
Speaker 2 01:10:33 This week. Okay. Thank you for listening. Um, and until next week,
