Speaker 1 00:00:14 Welcome to the weekly dive podcast on the addon education network, the podcast where we take a look at the weekly, come follow me discussion and try that little insight and unique perspective. I am your host, Jason Lloyd here in the studio with my friend and this show's producer, Nate Piper. What's up. Hey Nate, how are you doing buddy? Oh, fantastic. How are you doing? I'm living the dream every day. Ah, that's a good dream to be living. Yeah, <affirmative> it really is man. And, and now I get to hang out with you and do this. Let's get into it even better. All right. What're talking about tonight. We got a great night tonight. Great week this week. Great. Whatever it is, I guess the episode that we're gonna be cutting into it is Exodus 24, comma 31 through 30, or, and, and here's the thing. If you're noticing that there are a lot of missing chapters in this section.
Speaker 1 00:01:07 Well, there are, it's missing Exodus 21, 22, 23, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29 30. Whoa. So there's a lot of, there's a lot of ground that's actually covers don't feel terribly bad because 25 through 29 is, is really going to be repetitive of what you're gonna see and what they're covering next week. Cuz you have the instructions of the temple and you have the fulfillment of those instructions. So four of those chapters, I, I get why they they're not there, but some of these other ones, I feel like there's a missed opera opportunity that we're not going to miss to talk about. What's in these cool chapters. That's exactly right baby. Yeah, can't wait. So let's dive right into Exodus 21. And if you don't mind, I'll just actually read a few of these verses. This is God's commandments regarding I, I mean it's the law and I should have brought with me tonight.
Speaker 1 00:02:04 Some of the law codes I had from other near Eastern society. So you could see how identical it is, but I didn't. So you just can have to kinda take my word for it or look it up yourself. If you look at some of these other ones Hamra or whatnot, you'll see very similar language, but let's get into it. So if you buy, if they'll buy an Hebrew, so six years he shall serve and in the seventh, he shall go out free for nothing. Uh, if he came in by himself, he shall go out by himself. If he were married, then his wife shall go out with him. If his master have given him a wife and she has born him, sons or daughters, the, and her children shall be her masters and he shall go out by himself. And if the servant shall plainly say, I love my master, my wife and my children, I will not go out free.
Speaker 1 00:02:58 Then his master shall bring him onto the judges. He shall also bring him to the door or unto the door post. And his master shall bore his ear through with an all. And he shall serve him forever. Yeah. That's that's fantastic. Right, Nate? That's weird. <laugh> it? It should seem a little bit weird. Um, but I, I, I, I actually like it. I find it kind of interesting. And when, when we're talking about servitude in the old Testament and, and it might be interesting to note here, it's not like they would take a whole group of people and force them into slavery. It's, it's very different from the slavery. The servitude that we're used to more recently in times passed in these cases, they did not have prisons. If you stole and you're brought to a judge and you're found guilty, then you become a servant and that's your sentencing.
Speaker 1 00:03:59 You're, it's like a prison. If you will, you're sentenced to serve, but not forever. As it says here, you're going to be serving for a period of six years. And on the seventh, you shall go out free for nothing meaning you don't have to pay for your slavery. You, you just let go. I mean, you don't have to pay for your release. And it, it, we, if we were were to take time to read all of this, you'll see that when they let a slave go, after the six years is complete and in the seventh year, they're letting them go. They have to let them go with as much as they can take of your flocks of your vineyard, of your crops, of everything that you have. You're supposed to give them as much as they can intake and set them on their way as best set up as you can so that they can have success after leaving.
Speaker 1 00:04:47 So they don't go back into slavery. So it is meant to be sort of a reformation for, for these people who have stolen or whatnot here. First, you have to make it right from who you stole from. You're going to be serving them without being paid. And they'll take care of you. They'll take care of your needs, keep you alive. But after the seven years, then they're gonna, they're going to pay you for your service. And it's still a lot cheaper than had they had a servant for the whole seven years, but because they saved money on you giving the restitution and hopefully the restitution is more than what they stole to begin with then was setting you back up so that you can go back into society and contribute. So it's, it's kind of an interesting system. Think of it more as prison than, than necessarily slavery.
Speaker 1 00:05:33 And there is this end goal in mind to try to get these people reformed back on the street. But why I think this is interesting is take this discussion in context of Jacob and Lavin. If you go, and, and you are married before you become a servant, then you can go out with your wife. But if the master shall give him a wife and she shall bear him, sons and daughters, the wife and the children shall be her masters. And he shall go out by himself. He can't go with his wife and his children. So this, this almost makes layman's argument seem a little bit less, um, what's, what's the right way of putting it, like, like a jerk or like he was out of line. Yeah. And, and so from Jacob's perspective, I don't know, this gets a little bit interesting from a legal perspective.
Speaker 1 00:06:28 I would love to see this court case, had it gone out and how it would've been argued because from Jacob's perspective, when he goes there, yes, he doesn't have have money for a dowry. So he could technically serve himself in as a serve as a slave. And what's the period of time that he's serving for just like it says here, it's a seven year period of time where he can go out free. So it's almost like he's selling himself as a slave, but you can see that from layman's per perspective, looking from Jacob's perspective, Lavin says your family, you can't serve me for free. Tell me your wage. So it's not that he's serving him as a slave. He is going to be giving him a wage as a hired person. Not, not as a slave, not as an indenture servant. So from Jacob's perspective, that's it.
Speaker 1 00:07:17 And then also Jacob, after the seven years are up, I want to take the bride. So, so it's not that he takes the bride and has kids during the seven years it's after, when he's liberated, where this gets tricky is the second bride he has to serve seven more years for. And Jacob gives him Rachel and, and he has kids to, through that relationship through the handmaids during the time that he's serving that second seven years. So now, if you look at this from layman's perspective, I gave him a wife and he had children. Now those wife and children belong to me and all of the increase, all of the flocks, you can almost see layman's perspective and how his wheels are turning because I tricked him into this relationship because I tricked him into this. Technically, these are my kids, my family, and all of his crops are my crops.
Speaker 1 00:08:10 So I don't know, I, I just think kind of going through the laws and seeing that shines some light on some of these discussions that we're having in the Bible. So I, I felt that was kind of worth, uh, yeah. Mentioning where I think it is super cool is if you love your, now, now let's, let's get this. I'm just gonna read this straight outta here. If the servant shall plainly say, I love one, my master two, my wife and three, my two children, I will not go out free. Then the master shall bring him onto the judge and he shall also bring him to the door or run the doorpost and his master shall bore his ear through with an all. And he shall serve him forever. Think of Christ who came here on earth and think of his bride as the church, think of his offspring as those who hear him, who born through baptism through that covenant, and then think of his master her as God. I love my master. I love my wife. I love my children. I am willing to submit myself as a servant forever to my master, to my bride and to my children. And he is taken to the post and he is born through with the, with nails to the post, as a symbol of his dedication to wanting to serve this family forever.
Speaker 2 00:09:46 That's amazing.
Speaker 1 00:09:47 So I, I love how that this sets that story and frames it, some of these laws. So I think there's some good things in the law that maybe just worth highlighting a little bit killer. Let's keep going next up. Um, let's see.
Speaker 1 00:10:04 Let's skip into Exodus 23. And, and I think this is as they're, you know, it's, it's kind of fun to see the fairness that they're trying to do all throughout here. If, if for example, your ox gets loose and it bores somebody or Gores someone with their horn and it causes 'em to die. If this is the first time that happened and you had no idea it was going to happen, it's not your fault. It's kind of this, this crazy animal's fault. And, and the animal has to bear the sin of what it did. But if this animal was known to be kind of a and going around and, and had a tendency to be charging people, and you have this pattern that establishes it, then the liability slides away from the animal and onto the owner. And if the ox Gores someone and they die, now, the owner is liable.
Speaker 1 00:10:52 So I like, I like how the law is described and careful detail out giving all of these different situations, trying to show what's going on. But in the end here in 23, I love what he says in verse seven, keep the far from a false matter and the innocent and righteous slay thou not for, I will not justify the wicked. So when the Lord's saying, keep the far from a false matter and the innocent and the, the righteous slay, not you look at it, there is a lot of laws where you say, okay, if, if they do this, then stone them, then put them to death. There's capital punishment all throughout this law. But if there is any question or doubt that that person is, is a righteous person, or is an innocent person, is being accused of something. They shouldn't, it says error on the side of letting them go because I, the Lord will not justify the wicked. You know, you might let the wicked go, but in the end, they'll still re they'll still meet justice. There's no reason to kill an innocent person trying to be overly. Um, what's, what's the right way to say this overly persistent of, of justice that you kill somebody who was righteous, trying to punish whoever did something. If, if you're gonna air on the side of caution, cuz in the end, God's gonna make it all right. Anyways, at least that's, I,
Speaker 4 00:12:21 I tell people all the time, I've watched too many of those shows or seen listen to too many of those podcasts where innocent people or spending insane amounts of time in and because of some shady or suspicious policing or legal stuff or whatever it is. And I'm, I'm glad that, uh, I feel like I'm being justified here with my belief, which is, I would much rather I would much rather a guilty person get off than an innocent and have to serve time for something they didn't do.
Speaker 1 00:12:57 Yeah. And that's, and that's the way I read this. You can also read it. And I think maybe, maybe it works in both cases, as you say, sometimes they're, they're being put in there because of what a wicked person did. Right. And when they say here, slay, not the innocent and the righteous <affirmative> for, I will not justify the wicked. If you could look at that as saying the wicked are the ones that are persecuting the righteous knowingly, falsely accusing 'em or going after 'em that way. So I, I, I think it works in both cases, mom,
Speaker 4 00:13:28 With you,
Speaker 1 00:13:29 All right, let's move to the next one. Shall we
Speaker 4 00:13:32 Please?
Speaker 1 00:13:33 Okay. Ex this, uh, 2322 says, and, and this is so God's prepping them for when they're about to go into the promised land. He says, but if thou shall and de obey, um, his voice and do all that, I will speak. So he is talking about the angel. That's gonna go before him. We is really gonna be God himself sitting in this pillar of fire or this cloud. That's gonna go before Israel and prepare the way for them. If you follow him and do his will, I will be an enemy on two nine enemies and an adversary Oni adversaries for my angels shall go before the, and shall bring the, into the land of the Amorites and the Hitite and the parasites and the Canan and the hiss and the Jes. And I will cut them off.
Speaker 4 00:14:21 Can you say all those again, please?
Speaker 1 00:14:23 I would rather
Speaker 4 00:14:23 Not. Okay. <laugh>
Speaker 1 00:14:28 And you shall serve skipping down to 25 to Lord your God. And he shall bless by bread and by water. And I will take sickness away from the midst of the, there shall nothing cast. Um, there shall nothing cast their young nor be barren in the land. And the number of the days will I fulfill, I will send my fear before the, and I will destroy all the people in whom thou shall come and I will make all line enemies, turn their backs onto the, and I will send Hornets before the yeah, which shall drive out the Hibis and the canines and the Hitite from before the, I will not drive them out from before the, in one year less, the land become and the beast of the field multiply against the, but little and by little and little will I drive them out from before the, until that'll be increased and inherit the land I love.
Speaker 1 00:15:22 Okay. I love that the Lord is gonna be captaining up Israel and going in front of them. And, and we think about this next stage in, in the biblical history, this conquest, and they're going in and, and we see the destruction and how bloody it is. And, and we look at how can the Lord be commanding these people to go and kill all of these people? And it it's pretty dark and it's pretty bloody. But at the same time in here, God is saying that he is going to fight their battles and it's, it's going to be their reputation, what he did by laying the foundation with Exodus. And the plagues is creating this fear like Hornets, that's gonna go before them that, you know, Hornets, they're not gonna kill you, but for whatever reason, I think we have an ear national fear of them, or, you know, we're, we're like a thousand times their size, but yet we run away from these little guys.
Speaker 1 00:16:20 I think that's kind of the fear that God has created this reputation of Israel. And as Israel's coming into the land, because of that reputation, that saves them a lot of the fighting, cuz the people are gonna be fleeing 'em before them. God is warning the people and trying to avoid. I think a lot of the conflict that we're going to be seeing anyone who's willing to listen to the Lord or listen to this fear and flee is going to be spared. The, the, the punishments that are coming. You see this too, when, when they go and get the prophet to try to curse Israel and he looks out at the host and he is like, yeah, no, you guys are toast. You, you probably just leave now. It's great, too bad. They didn't listen
Speaker 4 00:17:05 Too bad. They didn't listen.
Speaker 1 00:17:07 Okay. Let's uh, let's move on. Shall we
Speaker 4 00:17:09 Please
Speaker 1 00:17:10 Talking about the covenant that gets made you Israel accepts the word Lord and, and the Lord has kind of this little ritual that he goes, where he takes representatives of all of Israel, brings them before him and they sacrifice the animals and they don't just sacrifice them, but they collect their blood in these large basins. And then they take these basins of blood and they sprinkle it out on representatives to represent all Israel. So can you imagine, like here you are set up to, to the sacred ceremony and you just can have blood splattered all over you. It just seems kind of disgusting and it's gotta be the same blood that's being splattered on you as the same blood that's being poured over the altar. So you have this blood being poured on the altar and this blood being splattered all over you. It seems very cultish, very weird.
Speaker 1 00:18:00 And, and I think hard for, for us to accept we're so far removed from this butchery. We, we are not used to the idea that we have to go kill what we're going to eat for the next night or week or however long. And, and we don't get our hands dirty in that process. Very often, these guys, this is part of their existence. And there's something powerful about knowing that the only reason they're alive is because something innocent had to give it life and shed their blood for them to be able to live. And this lesson is being taught over and over. So think about that. What is the symbolism of having that same blood that's spilled on them being spilled over the altar? And, um, I don't, I don't wanna just throw you on the spot, but I'm gonna have you think about that. Nate, maybe I'll, I'll spit out some ideas. Maybe you can,
Speaker 4 00:18:52 Some, I have some ideas.
Speaker 1 00:18:53 You have some
Speaker 4 00:18:54 Yes,
Speaker 1 00:18:55 Shoot.
Speaker 4 00:18:56 Well, what does the, what does, uh, I'll throw this back to you to make sure that I'm not off on this? What does the, uh, sacrament table represent
Speaker 1 00:19:09 The
Speaker 4 00:19:09 Altar? Okay. And what is placed upon the altar?
Speaker 1 00:19:14 The body of Christ.
Speaker 4 00:19:15 Okay. So for me, I mean, it makes sense that the most direct, um, comparison is the thing that, the thing that covers your nakedness or the thing that the blood that covers you, that a tones for you is the same blood that was spillt upon that altar.
Speaker 1 00:19:34 Yes. I love it. And how far
Speaker 4 00:19:38 Off
Speaker 1 00:19:38 Am I? No, I absolutely. Yeah, that's it? I mean, well, that, that's part of it. I wanna keep going with this. Cause I think there's even more imagery than that. Let's keep going, but let's go down the road that you're taking this down, cuz I, I think this is perfect. I mean, you have this burial shroud covering the bra and the water, which represents the flesh and the blood of Christ. Okay. Laying on an altar as a sacrifice offering himself, then that same water that represents the blood is not just contained to him under that shroud, but passed out that everyone participates in it. Like you're saying, I, we participate cuz of the blood that was shed for us. And because we're partaking of that life that gave itself up that we can live, we can live as well. That, that covenant. So I, I love where you're going with that. I also wonder if the blood doesn't also represent the blood, our blood, the act that we are going to give our lives. We are going to sacrifice ourselves our old selves and try to become a new self and the same blood that we are leaving. We will also lay on the Al in, in that SIM, um, symbolism of here. Let me sacrifice myself to be what you want me to be. Let me give my life to you God and trust that you will raise me up and lengthen my days and give me new life.
Speaker 4 00:21:02 I love that.
Speaker 1 00:21:03 Well, and, and I love that it becomes complete through the duality, through the, both the idea that God became, man. So that man could become God that on one hand it can represent God, but on the other hand it can represent us. And that really they're one and the same.
Speaker 4 00:21:23 It's fantastic. Yeah. I love that. I love the imagery of that. It,
Speaker 1 00:21:28 I think it's pretty, I think it's pretty neat. And,
Speaker 4 00:21:30 And can I throw one more thing out there too, please do. There is something about that process that is also uncomfortable, right? Yes. The actual physical part of that process that it's not easy, that it's not, um, super convenient. Let's just, let's just use the word it messy at times, right? Like that there is something that is, I, I guess that I, I almost still just like the, the, it's not a convenient process either just from hearing it described, right. That there's a lot that goes into it and it, and there's that it takes quite a commitment to, you know what I mean? It's like, it's, it's very easy. And we've talked about this when we were talking about doctrine covenants and, and some of our other little kind of, uh, recordings in the past, how it can be kind of casual to take the sacrament each week, right?
Speaker 4 00:22:21 Yes. That's not a hard process. That's a very, it, it can be incredibly casual, right. Even though the weight of that covenant is heavy. Um, I guess I like the imagery of this other, you know, this actual covenant because I'm like, oh man, this isn't a, uh, this isn't something you casually show up and do to get blood poured on you that has to then get poured on and alter and all of these other things. I'm like, man, that's, I, I do at least appreciate the idea that there is a sanctity and a weight that is laying your blood on the line or laying your will on the line or sacrificing your will to God's will. And that it also is a good representation of the sacrifice that Christ also made. That that was very much not an easier convenient process, nothing about that was convenient.
Speaker 1 00:23:18 Yeah.
Speaker 4 00:23:19 And was messy and was bloody.
Speaker 1 00:23:22 It, it was. And, and I think of, you know, the saying, you've got blood on your hands and, and blood is associated with guilt. Like, you've you, the blood of my brothers crying out, like you were guilty that that animal had to die because of you, that, that blood ha was shed because of you and you have that blood on you, you share in that guilt, you participate in that, knowing that because of you, that's why he died. It makes it very real gritty. And, and it may be easier to internalize. And maybe it's more difficult today where it becomes such a clean and easy process. Maybe we don't internalize it, or maybe we take it for granted and maybe they did back then too, because they, you know, I don't know.
Speaker 4 00:24:04 I don't know, man, that seems like it would take some actual commitment, but it's just me.
Speaker 1 00:24:09 It does,
Speaker 4 00:24:10 I'm just saying is, is sacrament can be, yeah. Especially by the way with like small children, <laugh>, it's like when I'm burly just wrestling, one of them throughout the whole meeting and you know what I mean, trying to, you know, wrestle the sacrament tray out of his hands and then hurry and take it myself and then hurry and pass it and then try to keep his hands down. You know what I mean? Like, again, it's, it's easy to, to lose focus, although again, what it represents is something that is hard and gritty, like you said, and not clean and probably traumatic and, and horrifying. And, you know, I don't know.
Speaker 1 00:24:49 Well, and it engages a lot of senses and in sacrament, I don't know that our senses are engaged quite, quite to the same level. I mean, you're feeling the blood getting splattered on you. You're probably feeling the warmth of the blood and, and it smells, you know, and, and the visual of seeing the people around you splattered with blood. Yeah. It, it makes it very,
Speaker 4 00:25:13 Do you think they even saw the animal get killed and then have to have like the blood trained in these
Speaker 1 00:25:17 And drain things, feel the basins, and then they're taking the basins and, and the sprinkling is really just sloshing that bucket around. So it's spilling up over the edges and hitting you in the audience with it, and then they're taking it and pouring it over the altar. And they're sharing that. The
Speaker 4 00:25:32 That's a, that's a very visceral, you know, commitment, I guess. I don't know. I, I guess that's the only thing I want to add to though, I guess, is that I, I do like it at least the idea of, Hey, this is a reminder that, that what this does represent is not an easy thing and it's not a convenient thing.
Speaker 1 00:25:54 And, and I like, I, I like the, uh, I, I like the duality of this. I mean, one, obviously the, the symbolism of Christ dying for us. And I think it's fair to say Christ came here, his whole role and mission was to die. Right. But let me ask you this question is our mission any different,
Speaker 4 00:26:19 It's funny you said that. Cause I was just going to bring that up to one of my favorite lines in, in a cake song is as soon as you're bored, you start dying. Yeah. There's so you might as well have a good time, which is kind of funny, but, but I'm just saying like <laugh>, But I guess the idea is it is interesting and, and by the way, look at so many of the look at so many of the covenants that we make, what, what is a fairly common theme in, in most of the covenants we make death and rebirth, right?
Speaker 1 00:26:51 Yes.
Speaker 4 00:26:52 And so, you know, to answer your question, that that's our purpose too, right? Yes. Is to, is to die and be reborn in many different ways.
Speaker 1 00:27:03 He sent us all to die, but he gave us hope and, and having, having this hope that we can be redeemed, that we can, if we lose our life, we shall find it. I mean, that's the great, and, and I love, I love how the whole Testament keeps pointing us to this idea, to this imagery that yes, we can find it, that things will be complete and whole, and we'll see that even in this section spelled out again, when we get to the golden calf, which we're, we're headed to soon. Okay. Okay. Should
Speaker 4 00:27:37 I wait? Is that in this chapter?
Speaker 1 00:27:39 Uh, not in this chapter, but it's in this week. Okay. And, and, and so, uh, um, we're, we're in 24.
Speaker 4 00:27:46 Okay.
Speaker 1 00:27:46 Let's see if there's anything here. I wanted to hit real quick. I, I do like, um, versus nine and 10 then went up Moses and Aaron NAAB and ABI who and 70 of the elders of Israel. And they saw God, they saw the God of Israel and there was under his feet. It, um, as it were a paved work of the Sapphire stone and as it were the body of heaven in his clearness and upon the Nobles of the children of Israel, he laid not his hand and they saw God and did eat and drink. It's not just one person's testimony that you have to rely on. And I find that, you know, Joseph Smith was so relieved when he could share that burden and have the three witnesses. And then the 12 witnesses. Was it 12 witnesses? Am I losing my mind? Eight, eight witnesses. <laugh> Thank you. Thank you for correcting
Speaker 4 00:28:43 Me. I mean, you, you freaked me. Yeah, too. I was like, uh, I mean, even now I'm still, like, we should probably check that before we release this, but I thought it was eight.
Speaker 1 00:28:52 It, it
Speaker 4 00:28:52 Is okay.
Speaker 1 00:28:54 It is. But if you take eight plus three, it's 11 and then plus Joseph and then add Joseph, and then you're at 12. There
Speaker 4 00:29:00 We go. <laugh>
Speaker 1 00:29:02 I don't know. I don't know. I
Speaker 4 00:29:04 Don't know either
Speaker 1 00:29:06 How the, the, the, he writes about it in his journal, the relief he felt, knowing that he could share it. And the thing is that God is not going to put that kind of burden on one person that you just have to trust this. He says by the mouth of two or three witnesses, then the idea that he has testified to multiple people to help, to help his children to believe, to help build that faith. It's not just in one, but you establish this strong foundation upon which you can build. So I, I kind of liked that they threw that in there and, and talked about these other people receiving that witness too, as they're establishing this nation. Cool. Let's keep going. Let's do it. Um, let's move. Let's let's skip a little bit. So 25, um, through here's here's the deal, 25 through 29 30, you're gonna be talking about the, the temple and God commanding them to build the temple.
Speaker 1 00:30:00 And I kind of wish they would've included that in this week's discussion, but it's been pushed off to the next week because, so we'll skip this, but we'll get to the story of the, the golden calf, but why I say that? Hmm. Do I, do I preface it or conclude with it? No, let's go. Let's um, I, why I say that is you have this story where, where these four chapters are gonna outline every little detail about the tabernacle, how many tats you have, what material it should be made of, um, the length and the breadth thereof. And it's kind of a hard read to read once you're used to all of these fun stories and the Exodus and Genesis and all these crazy things that are happening. And then you get here and there's only so many length and breath there of, you can read before you're like falling asleep and you, and you don't even have wild, crazy names to like somewhat entertain you like the be getting lines, right.
Speaker 1 00:30:56 It's just qubits. But I think the, the, the value here is having these four chapters lining out a plan into such great specific detail. And then after the story of the golden calf, going back to the execution of the plan in great specific detail, I think it, it makes kind of this sandwich. You, you have the, the, of the plan, this weird story of the golden calf, and then the execution of the plan. Why would they interrupt the story of building the temple to tell this story about the golden calf? Hmm. And so that's why I think really all of these chapters should go together in one kind of unit. So I, I, I say that to kind of give us some context to the story of the calf, and then I'll finish up the story with why I think that's important, but we'll, we'll, we'll talk about these details next week's lesson.
Speaker 1 00:31:53 When we talk about the temple and the importance of this exactness and, and, and this measurement, okay. So going into the calf, um, they say, make us gods, but the word gods is EOH him. And so really they're saying, make us an image of God. And, and the reason they're saying this, Moses has been up in the mountain for 40 days and 40 nights. You remember Moses was 40 before he wanders into Jeff throws camp. And then he's 40, before he wanders back to get Israel out. This guy is somewhere after his eighties. And, and he's wandered into this mountain to talk to God. And no one's seen him for 40 days. They're starting to wonder if they're ever going to see him again, is he going to come back? And so they come to Aaron and they ask him to, to make them this golden image.
Speaker 1 00:32:45 And part of the key to this is it's not just any golden image, a calf was a symbol of God. And in fact, in some of the scriptures, when they talk about the God out of Jacob or the God of Abraham or the God of Isaac in the Hebrew, it's actually the bowl of Jacob, the bowl of Abraham, the bowl of Isaac. And so this bowl is being used as a symbol of God. So they're not making just any kind of image to, to any false gods. And they refer to this God as Elohim, they, to this God, as Jehovah, they say, make us an image so that we can worship Jehovah. And this is the, the animal, the totem symbol, the, the representation of him. And we see this, it's gonna play a place throughout Israel history later on, when they go and build temples in, in Israel, north of Jeru, they're gonna build calfs there as well.
Speaker 1 00:33:42 Uh, when we talk about the, the baptismal font being placed on the bowls, shoulders, there's something still resonant there about building this, this calf, but they build this calf. And when Moses comes back down, so, so Aaron commands at the, to take all of their jewelry, they take all the jewelry, he melts it down. He makes it, Moses comes back. He's pretty upset about what happens. And he takes the golden calf, melts it down, grinds it into a powder, then puts it in the water and makes them all eat it. <affirmative>. And, and then, so get this. After he sees that, uh, verse 25 in chapter 32, and when Moses saw that the people were naked for Aaron had made them naked unto the shame of their enemies. Then Moses stood in the gate of the camp and said, who is on the Lord's side, let him come unto me.
Speaker 1 00:34:40 And all the sons of Levi gathered themselves together, unto them, unto him. And, and, and so you've got this story. Let me try to, let me try to give you a thousand foot view of this. Okay, first, you have this plan that's laid out, and then you have these people here. And as soon as God departs, they go and have this calf or whatever. And when God comes back and, and when I say God departs, I'm, I'm, I'm talking about Moses, a sense of image or a symbol of God leaving into the mountain. When he returns, what happens? He's they having him eat this? I want you to think of this as Adam and Eve Perak of the fruit eating, uh, is a symbol of the sin that they had done, the, the, the choice that they had made that was poor and immediately after how do they find themselves? Moses finds them. The people were naked for Aaron had made them naked, and, and then afterwards, Moses tries to atone for them. So let's, let's see what Moses says.
Speaker 1 00:35:51 Verse 31. And Moses returned unto the Lord and said, oh, this people have sinned a great sin and have made them gods of gold yet. Now, if thou will forgive their sin, and if not blot me, I pray the out of the book, which thou has written. If you have a problem with them, take it out on me, forgive them. And the Lord said in the Moses, whosoever has sin against me. Him will, ilot out of the book. Therefore now go and lead this people to the place which I have spoken on the, so you have, you have a people that sin they're partaking, or they're eating of this sin, they're found naked. And then you have Moses trying to cover their nakedness and stepping in the role of a savior. And then following this story becomes the execution of the plan. So, first you have the laying out of the instructions on how to build a temple. Then you have this partaking of the fruit, this nakedness, this atonement theme motive, and then you have the execution of the plan perfectly done, uh, to the detail. This obedience that's learned afterwards and central to the whole story is the idea of a temple that's where restitution is going to happen. That's where we're going to be able to fulfill it and carry it out and make amends for the mistakes that we have made and return back to the presence of God.
Speaker 4 00:37:15 Can I throw another, uh, another connection in here please
Speaker 1 00:37:19 Do,
Speaker 4 00:37:20 Because I think that it's something that's, it's kind of important that you brought up is that the bowl represents God to them. Right. And we've kind of talked about this all year about the, the correct way or the easy way, right? Yes. And we've talked, we've talked a few times about the idea that even sometimes with the best of intentions, um, we make our own shortcuts, but that, those aren't the right shortcuts. But I think that, uh, in this, in this specific example, you could almost also relate this to Christ coming, and then the apostacy, and then him coming back again, right. Where you have Christ come correctly, set up his with the prophets and apostles. He leaves the, the people in an effort to still, um, worship God in their own way, build basically this golden calf. And, you know, basically the idea is they're still trying to do the right thing, but it's not the correct way. Right. It's not the right way. And that then when Christ comes back again, he basically destroys the, the golden calf and restores. And like you just said too specifically with the imagery of the temple, but that then the plan is restored. And what is the central part of the, of even God's church on the earth, the temple, the prophet,
Speaker 1 00:38:58 Or the well,
Speaker 4 00:38:59 Well, yeah, sure. I mean, I mean the structure of the church, but like you said, temple ordinances temple, right. And so I guess, I guess this is even like a beautiful kind of just imagery of even Christ coming, leaving things kind of going ammuck maybe with some good intentions, but then Christ coming back again to cover nakedness, to restore. And then the, the most important part of that restoration is the, the covenants. We can then start making again in the temple.
Speaker 1 00:39:31 That's the coolest thing. I've I love that the, the, you know, I, and, and I guess that's why I said prophet is, as you were saying, this, my mind's hanging up on, you know, Moses departing as, as Christ coming and establishing his church. And then as he leaves you, you would hope that some semblance of order stays there for a while, but eventually the people get let astray, or they go into that darkness that aposty, and, and, and set up this, this, this false form of worship. When you look at, you know, how, how the church has changed over time or praying to things that are not God, I mean, very literally they're creating this, the calf and praying to it and having that be in front of them instead of God, and God has to come back and say, no, you don't need something between you and me. And that, that restoration. And man, I love
Speaker 4 00:40:17 That. Well, and, and, and even maybe specifically too, and again, not to, you know, I, I, I know we try not to necessarily be super critical of other religions and things like that, but it is interesting when you go and look at old Catholicism, symbolisms and things, right. I mean, you, you have golden crosses with Christ hanging on them. Like you kind of have the golden calf. Right. And, and, and so much a part of, of various other religions worship is, is like physical objects, right. Or, or, you know what I mean, or, or kind of big elaborate, you know, things that dormed with gold and, and things like that. You know what I mean? It's like, you almost still have, yes, it is the correct symbol. Yes. That is Christ is who we worship. But like you just said, we're instructed very clearly you, at least in the 10 commandments, right. That it's like, we don't do that with grave and images. Right. We don't do that with, with golden, you know, calfs, whatever, whatever that is, you know, so it's funny cuz even the, even a lot of other religions quite literally have made symbolisms of God out of gold and various things and, and really do kind of bow with the feet or kiss the feet or, or worship these things. Right. And, and so I guess that even is maybe just another kind of, part of that connection.
Speaker 1 00:41:49 Yeah. And, and there's a verse here. Let's see if I, if I find it super quick, cause I don't, I don't wanna pause too much on this at verse eight in chapter 32. And they turned aside quickly out of the way, which I commanded them. And, and how quick is it that we start looking for those substitutes? I mean, you see how quick it was that they started substituting something else for that God and, and, you know, know going, taking this maybe full circle with what you were saying, this quest for the shortcut, if going to God is so difficult trying to find him or whatever, creating a shortcut and bringing him to you, creating a God that you now have. You don't have to go find him. You don't have to climb that mountain. You don't have to change your life and go through all of this because now you can just bring God to you. You have him, you're there. You're, you've created your own restoration. Isn't that much easier.
Speaker 4 00:42:46 Yeah, it is. It is. And, and again, tying back into this story, you know, when Moses is basically like, Hey God, God wants us all to be in his presence. Mm-hmm God, that's what God is wanting. Yeah. I mean, he's up on top of that mountain. Yeah. That's a hard thing to get up. Yeah. That's gonna take some effort. And that also is gonna take living a law and being, you know, cleansed in that whole thing. And everybody else's response again was, uh it's okay. Moses, you can do that
Speaker 1 00:43:23 And, and you
Speaker 4 00:43:24 Can take care of that for us. How about, how about, how about you go do that hard stuff for us
Speaker 1 00:43:27 And fear. They used that word fear, right? The fear of God, but they were trembling because the how intimidating it was. And sometimes I think we're afraid to come face to face with some of the things that we need to deal with in our life. And out of fear, we don't address those or out of fear. We don't want to change. Instead. We're gonna just create something that maybe is a little less scary that we can deal with. We can cope with than we can communicate with. That makes us feel a little bit more comfortable here. Have some of this fruit it'll give you, you'll be, you'll be just like God having to go through that process. Some process
Speaker 4 00:43:59 Process. That's exactly right. Awesome. Let's keep going.
Speaker 1 00:44:03 Um, and it just taking that back as how I was looking at that. I I'm so glad you took us down this route, but I was looking at it almost like a premortal life with, with the plan being laid out the temple saying, this is how we're going to do it. This is what it's going to look like. This is the plan and we have it all out in the details. And then we come here on earth to execute the plan. And inevitably we partake of the fruit and find ourselves naked and saying now what? Right. And then we get covered. And then we learn. And then when we die, cuz there's death that happens here. When, when the Levis choose Moses aside, they go through and start laying. Some of the people that had made the bad choices. I mean, death is part of this story.
Speaker 1 00:44:46 And then we get to the point where we can execute on that plan. And, and the whole thing, the whole, the whole purpose of the plan also includes that weakness in the middle, you don't have the temple story without having that partaking of the fruit and that nakedness, because it was part of the plan at the beginning, this idea that we still can be saved, don't give up don't don't F figure out, you know what I'm I'm imperfect. And this was a perfect plan. No, that imperfection was always part of the plan. Even in this story. And God still has a way programmed to redeem you and make you part of that strong finish.
Speaker 4 00:45:28 There's there's something incredibly hopeful about that in my opinion.
Speaker 1 00:45:32 I
Speaker 4 00:45:32 Agree. Um, I, I love that so much. And, and it's funny cuz when you talk about life and death, it's like, man, those are, those actually are two very heavy subjects, right? Those are two hard things, life and death. But the idea is, and we talked about this a lot last week and, and the Easter, um, I episode that the hope is that there is something after, right? And when you look at all of just throughout the scriptures throughout your day to day life, just the process of death and rebirth, you know, birth, death rebirth, there is something that is so beautiful, a about that reoccurring theme, about the potential to always put away some things that you might not even behaviors that you don't like of your, about yourself. You know what I mean? Things even of yourself that you're just like, man, I really wish I could change.
Speaker 4 00:46:33 Yes you can. That's the whole point of all of this, right? The whole point of all of this is, is that it's not a hopeless cause that every bit of this, and I'm glad that you, you brought it out to a thousand feet, I'm glad you brought this out to, you know, a hundred thousand feet. I'm glad you brought out the eternal part of this. Right. Which is a, which is messing up then killing that person, knowing that there will be a rebirth of that person. I mean, even just the idea of like the sun going down and the sun coming back up, right? Yes. Like there's just something it's like, it's no wonder celebrating a new, year's such a part of every culture, right? There's just that idea of death and rebirth with just another shot again. Right. And, and I just love that you can look at that as an hour to hour, day to day, month to month birthday to birthday, whatever that is. Right. All the way out to the eternal perspective, which is you can do it really, right. Just don't be afraid. Don't be afraid to kill those things that you don't like because that it's part of it, kill those things and then be reborn as something better, ready to learn from it and ready to continue to, you know, just to, to progress and, and, you know, eventually hopefully be perfected
Speaker 1 00:48:02 And symbolically. It kind of is a bloody process as you're killing part of those things in your life that you don't like, you know, it's
Speaker 4 00:48:08 Hard for me. Mm-hmm
Speaker 1 00:48:10 <affirmative> you, you are, you are bleeding a bit, you are sacrificing, you are giving, putting part of you on that altar to try to make yourself a better person. And, and I, and I love, we're gonna talk about this next week when we start talking about the temple and different levels of holiness that, that you're not supposed to be is perfect all the time. The, the behavior in the holy of holys is still going to be different from the holy place or the courtyard of the, the priest or the Gentiles or, you know, Israel there's, there is different, different gradients and that's okay. You're not supposed to be just like this all the time, all out there. There are levels it's okay. That, that, that we behave in. We we'll talk about that all next week. Sorry. I'm no, it's great. I'm I'm cause I
Speaker 4 00:48:56 Was gonna ask you what we were talking about next week anyways, but you beat me to it.
Speaker 1 00:49:00 Well, let me, let me, let me put one last point on this cuz um, please,
Speaker 4 00:49:03 Please
Speaker 1 00:49:04 Do. And, and I, and I was ready to wrap up and sorry. No,
Speaker 4 00:49:07 Let's put one final point on this. Great.
Speaker 1 00:49:10 I, when, when you were talking about the, the, the multitude of, of signs that we get about death and resurrection, that just took my mind back again. You know, at first you have Moses, who's talking with God, but that's not good enough. I don't want one person that everyone has to trust. Bring everyone here and let them watch Moses talking to God. And that's still not good enough. I need, I need Joshua here. I need Aaron here. I need 70 elders and they'll see me personally. So when we start talking about death and resurrection, that's not just one person, Jesus Christ that we have to take here, his word for it. And believe that he is going to be sharing these witnesses in these stories, through all of these different people. And, and you see it in the whole world around us when the sun goes down at night and it's symbolizing this death and this darkness, and yet inevitably the next day, it rises again when the season's change and watch the leaves die and the trees go dormant and this death take over the world and yet in the spring life comes back.
Speaker 1 00:50:19 That's so neat to me that we don't have to rely just on the word of one, man. We didn't know that well that we can see it in everything testifying, that this is the case and how much more comforting is that to us to, to know that it's a whole chorus of testimonies that are singing to us rather than one vague point that we're trying to focus on.
Speaker 4 00:50:44 Amen brother. Amen. And the more we see it happen, the more, the more we just become comfortable with the idea, right? The more we just accept it. And, and we don't even question it.
Speaker 1 00:50:55 And, and the more we look for it, the more we recognize it, you know, when we start to see what we're looking for and we focus on it, it starts to stick out, you know, you see it when you buy a car and then you start to see that car everywhere because now you're kind of focusing
Speaker 4 00:51:09 On. Yeah, totally. It was,
Speaker 1 00:51:10 Yeah. It makes it easier for us to see it and recognize it all over in the life, around us and in the stories and in the scriptures. And it just it's comforting.
Speaker 4 00:51:19 Fantastic. Anything else we need to get to this week? No,
Speaker 1 00:51:22 Sir. Let's talk about next week.
Speaker 4 00:51:24 Okay.
Speaker 1 00:51:24 Next week is the construction of the temple. We'll tell, talk about the details of the temple and, and kind of how I led in there. We're gonna talk about different degrees of holiness. Is it okay that we're not always our Sunday best throughout the week? We we'll have that discussion next week.
Speaker 4 00:51:39 Fantastic. Um, again, everybody, thank you so much for listening. Please send questions and comments to
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