D&C 94 - 97 (2020 repost)

[00:00:00] Speaker A: Foreign. Welcome to the weekly Deep Dive podcast on the Add On Education Network. The podcast where we explore the weekly Come follow me discussion and try to add a little insight and unique perspective. I am your host, Jason Lloyd, here in the studio with my friend and this show's producer, Nate Pifer. [00:00:31] Speaker B: What is up? [00:00:32] Speaker A: Hey, Nate. [00:00:33] Speaker B: How are you doing, buddy? [00:00:34] Speaker A: Oh, fantastic. [00:00:36] Speaker B: Thanks for your help this morning, chopping down that tree. [00:00:38] Speaker A: Oh, yeah. Anytime I can jump on a fence and chop at a tree, it's a good day. [00:00:42] Speaker B: You were worrying me a little bit. [00:00:44] Speaker A: But I was worrying me a little bit. [00:00:47] Speaker B: Appreciate it, though. [00:00:48] Speaker A: Job done. [00:00:50] Speaker B: Job done. [00:00:52] Speaker A: I'm not going to make any promises as to the length of this podcast, but that's okay. Last week I said it was going to be short, and I think we finished at what, an hour, 10 minutes? [00:01:01] Speaker B: Yeah, pretty much the same time we always finish. [00:01:03] Speaker A: So we'll just dive in. [00:01:05] Speaker B: What are you thinking about this one? Are you thinking a long or short one? [00:01:07] Speaker A: This time I'm thinking short. [00:01:12] Speaker B: Well, here's the wild card. Yeah, me. [00:01:16] Speaker A: I'm glad. Well, the deck is stacked. [00:01:19] Speaker B: You never know. You never know. [00:01:21] Speaker A: You never know. Well, this. This. We're going to dive into something that we've already dove into at least somewhat, but I think it's worth doing it. And Dr. Dove, in a word, we've already divin. Sounds even worse. [00:01:38] Speaker B: Divin. [00:01:41] Speaker A: We've. [00:01:42] Speaker B: We've dived. [00:01:44] Speaker A: We have already. [00:01:45] Speaker B: That sounds terrible, too. Man, what a. What a conundrum. [00:01:51] Speaker A: I know somebody out there knows what the right word is. [00:01:54] Speaker B: All right, well, I'm glad that somebody out there is judging us right now. [00:01:57] Speaker A: Let us know what it is. [00:01:58] Speaker B: Is it just dove? [00:02:00] Speaker A: We've already dove into maybe. [00:02:06] Speaker B: I'm sorry, I'm derailing already. [00:02:08] Speaker A: We've ventured into these fields once before. [00:02:11] Speaker B: There you go. [00:02:12] Speaker A: We're just gonna change our approach. [00:02:14] Speaker B: All right, let's do it. [00:02:15] Speaker A: So earlier on in Doctrine and Covenants, we were talking about measure. And the Lord metes out measure for how he measures the blessings, and without measure the cursings or whatever the case may be. It was one of our earlier episodes, though, and it's been a long time since we've talked about it, but it's something that's very pertinent to today. Not to today, but to this week's lesson as we dive right in off the bat. 94, its instructions for building the temple. This is kind of language that maybe you didn't expect to see in Doctrine and Covenants in verse four. Verily, I say unto you that it shall be built 55 by 65ft in the width thereof and in the length thereof. So here we have measurements again. The length thereof shall be this and the width thereof shall be that. And it's cool because in this we are talking about the construction of a temple. And in the context of the Old Testament, when we were looking at this, it was the dimensions for the tabernacle. And it is odd how specific the Lord gets in this case. And I find it kind of refreshing. And it's nice to be talking about it right now, especially coming off the last couple episodes where it seems like things have been a little bit more vague and general. And there are a few things in the church the Lord gives us that he's very specific about. And the temple being one of them. The baptismal prayer, what you should say, the sacrament prayer, even if it's one word off or how they say it, then it needs to be repeated. I don't know where I was going. That's definitely not a word. [00:04:02] Speaker B: Whatever reperted sounds, rad sounds, never mind. [00:04:11] Speaker A: Anyways, it's interesting that there are those few instances that the Lord gives very specific instructions and expects very specific follow through. And why is it the case? Why is it that he's respecting our agency and saying, yeah, do what you need to do. And on the other hand, he's saying, actually, no, I need this to the measure. I need this 65ft by 65ft or 50ft or how many tatchets or how this should look. And the window and everything revealed by revelation. This is exactly what I want. And this is what you should say word for word. I don't know, do you have any. Sorry, Nate, just throw this on you last minute without preparing you to anything. [00:04:55] Speaker B: But I've actually. This is what I was thinking about while you were talking about this. [00:04:58] Speaker A: Yeah. What thoughts do you have or what wisdom can you share with us on this? [00:05:02] Speaker B: Oh man, now you've actually put me on the spot because I don't feel like I have any wise thoughts on it whatsoever. I do. I actually have wondered about that sometimes why some. Some prayers or some blessings, you need to use exact language. Some blessings is totally by the Spirit and some are like half and half. [00:05:29] Speaker C: Right. [00:05:29] Speaker B: Like a baptismal blessing is like you. You say it exactly right when you're. [00:05:36] Speaker A: Confirming them after the baptism. [00:05:38] Speaker B: But that's what I'm saying is when you're confirming them after the baptism, there are things you have to say. Exactly. But then, but then it's led by the Spirit after that Right. [00:05:47] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:05:47] Speaker B: So the baptismal part of that is with exactness. And then the part after that is led by the spirit, which it's funny because initially I was thinking like, oh, I wonder if this kind of hints back at the idea of a preparatory law and then the higher law. [00:06:09] Speaker C: Right. [00:06:10] Speaker B: And so part of me was thinking like, oh, I wonder if, like, the idea is baptism is the. You know what I mean, is like the, hey, I'm going to tell you exactly what you need to do. And then the higher law is okay, after that, led by a spirit. But the thing is that then what wouldn't make sense with that? Is that why in the temple, you have very exact language. [00:06:33] Speaker C: Right. [00:06:34] Speaker B: So I don't know. I don't know. It kind of. It's kind of. It's. It's making me think. It's making me think. And I'm not. No. I don't know if I'm coming up with anything, like, really profound. [00:06:42] Speaker A: No, I love. I think what you said is actually really profound. When you look at the baptism being word for word with no. With no flexibility in how you do it, yet in the confirmation, you tack on this blessing that has that. As you were saying that, it was reminding me of the Old Testament, where you have the exact price you pay if you lose somebody's axe or if an ox pushes a fence over or what. The deal is where Christ comes in the New Testament and it seems very much less structured in this idea that, hey, just love your neighbor and go the extra mile or do what it takes without necessarily, you know, 70 times seven, not this very structured. But you see this contrast where the Gospel kind of embraces both worlds and there's a time and a place for one and the other. But you have this foundational core. Once you have that foundation and the principles, then here's something a little extra maybe to build to it, to add some, I don't know, maybe a level of trust. [00:07:44] Speaker B: Okay. [00:07:45] Speaker A: Because even with last week's lesson when we said, I will call you servants no more, you are my friends, right? And this idea that a servant, you line out very specific instructions, this is what needs to be done. Your employees, this is the task that you are assigned to do. This is what's expected of you, as opposed to friends, cohorts, where you are sharing with them and brainstorming with them at a different level of commitment, where they're helping you discover the plan or where you are going to go with that. [00:08:16] Speaker B: So how does it then go to the temple, which is very much you know what I mean? Like, exact language again, but even in. [00:08:27] Speaker A: The temple, I mean, the exact language. You look at the covenants that we are making to sacrifice, right. Sacrifice what we don't have in there, three turtledoves and a bull this or that, Right? [00:08:45] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:08:46] Speaker A: And the law of chastity. Well, what do you mean by the law of chastity? Is it still okay that I look at things if I don't engage with those things? Or what does that mean? Well, it's not going to be well defined. There's more flexibility in there, as opposed to. This is exactly how I want you to behave or exactly what I want you to be doing in this situation. [00:09:08] Speaker B: And it's interesting because even in the temple too, like, as. As you kind of progress through the various parts of the temple or. You know what I mean? Like, it starts out very much like, you know, you're receiving instruction visually, you know, audibly, and then. And then kind of as it progresses, it moves to just audibly. And then the idea is by the end, it's neither. It's totally dependent upon the spirit. [00:09:42] Speaker C: Right. [00:09:43] Speaker B: Or like, you know what I mean? As you progress. I guess I'm trying to think of how to say this without getting too detailed, but you know what I mean? I like that even through the temple ceremony, it kind of goes from a see and here to just hear, to just feel. I love that by the end, you know, and so even though we're using exact language for certain covenants and things like that, by the end, it's all the idea of, like, being in the presence of God and just trying to communicate only through feeling and only through the spirit. [00:10:23] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:10:24] Speaker A: As you described that, it reminded me of somebody teaching someone else how to ride a bike, where first you have to hold on to them and you're very careful guiding them through it, holding them by their hand or whatever the. [00:10:38] Speaker B: Case may be, explaining it to them. [00:10:40] Speaker A: Yes. And then it gets to the point where maybe you're just holding the back of the seat, but they're doing most of the work to the point where you let go. So at first. Yeah, how you explain that you have the audio and the visual, and then soon it's just the audio. And then soon it's. But now you go up and you are the one that is saying it, and you are the one that is doing it. You are now learning to fly or ride your bike, in that case. I love that idea of progression. Also, correct me if I am wrong, but is not the first law obedience before we get to the point where we can do these things before we are trusted. At a level like I go back to Nephi in the Book of Mormon, where he was given the sealing power because God knew he would not ask for anything that was inappropriate. But before he got to that level, he had to go through obedience. He had to go through this structure. The Old Testament comes before the New Testament kind of example, as we have been kind of teasing this out. But even though we are, I mean, it is not to say that one is better than the other or one that replaces the other. I think you still have. You can't live at a higher level without still being obedient to the T in some of these cases. And one of the points, we've almost taken it the other way. Like, you can almost look at it like a deacon blessing the sacrament. And if he says a word wrong, you'd almost say, well, God knows what he's trying to say, right? And God loves him. So isn't that good enough? Why don't we just call it good? Yet somehow it's still important that it's said right? And I want to take that and apply it maybe to some of our lives. When we were talking about measure earlier in the year, this idea that when you're building a house or constructing something, you're only measuring what you're going to use as building materials. You take the wood, you measure it out to so many inches or how far it's going to be, you cut it off, and then you build it into the house. And what's not measured is your scrap or your throwaway, your waste. And as we look at ourselves as building materials, as God says in the Book of Revelation and a couple other places, you shall be a pillar in my house, never more to go out, he is almost saying, like, he is building his house out of us. His celestial kingdom is being built by the souls that follow Him. And our value or our worth is measured in us keeping the commandments fulfilling that measurement. We are meeting the standards that he has laid out, and that gives us utilization because now we fit the measurement he needs. And there's value in that. When we are talking about this idea of measurement and exactness and being obedient, it's easy in today's world where we say, well, God loves me, God knows me. He's going to be okay if I just do this, or because God loves me, I'm sure he's not going to condemn me because I'm trying this, or, I don't know, does that make sense what I'm trying to say, this idea that more and more today we're preaching acceptance rather than exactness. We're teaching it's okay to cut a few corners rather than this formal structure, this rigid obedience, this keeping the commandments type. [00:14:23] Speaker B: Yeah. When you, you brought up the house and I think, I think I. I think what you're saying is, I mean, it's making sense to me. When you brought up the house, there are certain things that are. That need to be done. Exactly. Measured out. And then there are certain things that don't. [00:14:40] Speaker C: Right. [00:14:41] Speaker B: There are certain foundational things when you build a house that have to be done. You know what I mean? Like the cement work or whatever it is. But the thing is, when you look at the things that have to be done. Exactly. [00:14:57] Speaker C: Right. [00:14:57] Speaker B: It makes sense, right? The. The foundation has to be right. When you're doing the cement work for that stuff. [00:15:04] Speaker C: Right. [00:15:04] Speaker B: You have to. You. That needs to be, that needs to be measured out exactly the, you know, the, the truss system in, in the roof. You know what I mean? [00:15:14] Speaker A: Like framing the stranger. [00:15:15] Speaker B: The structure. But it's funny because even in the framing though, it like. Yeah, you need to put two by fours every. Whatever it is. You know what I mean? Like three feet or whatever it is. [00:15:24] Speaker C: Right. [00:15:25] Speaker B: But again, like, there's times where you can if like, oh, it's kind of right on the outside, maybe I do an extra one here. You know what I mean? Things like that. And again, when I used to do like wiring in houses, it's like, yeah, you drill the holes kind of here, but you know, you're supposed to hang the boxes here. It's like some of the things are like, yeah, this is where it's supposed to be. But you have room in which you can kind of make judgment calls. [00:15:46] Speaker C: Right. [00:15:47] Speaker A: And then where you're putting outlets. [00:15:49] Speaker B: Yes. [00:15:50] Speaker A: There are some requirements, windows, the size of the window that you want to go with there. [00:15:56] Speaker B: But when you look at the things that are being asked. Exactly. Those are things that will, will actually, you know what I mean, destabilize a house or, or potentially like throw off so many other things. [00:16:15] Speaker C: Right. [00:16:16] Speaker B: And then there are things that are judgment calls within it that have, have. You have standards, but there's room to make wise decisions with. [00:16:26] Speaker C: Right. [00:16:27] Speaker A: And you're coloring your hue or. [00:16:29] Speaker B: Yes. Oh, yeah. All that stuff. [00:16:30] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:16:31] Speaker B: I mean, even. Dude. Yeah. If you want a light here or not a light there, whatever it is. [00:16:35] Speaker C: Right. [00:16:35] Speaker B: So I guess I'm saying is, like, if you compare that to certain Things that were asked to be done. Exactly. Maybe we look at that the same way. [00:16:44] Speaker C: Right. [00:16:45] Speaker B: That there are certain things that we're being asked to do with exactness, because those are foundational things that we shouldn't be making judgment calls on. Like, this is. You know what I mean? And again, like, I don't want to go into any specific details because I don't know if I know exactly all of those things either. But I agree with what you said. And again, like, I think that there are. I think that we would like, because of how we want to behave or what we want to believe politically or socially or whatever it is, it's easier to start going like, oh, we should move this into the. From the exact obedience to the. To the judgment call obedience, you know, oh, we should move this thing because. Because it works for me. We should move it from this is the commandment to. Well, there's some room to make a judgment call on. [00:17:46] Speaker C: Right. [00:17:48] Speaker B: And it's funny because, like, that always directly correlates with what we think. [00:17:54] Speaker A: Yes. [00:17:54] Speaker B: Or what we believe or what we want to believe, or what's convenient or sometimes not convenient, but. But, you know, more convenient than, than maybe taking a hard look and saying, well, maybe I'm. Maybe the way that I see that is wrong. And maybe instead of me demanding that it cater to how I feel and believe, maybe I take a look at myself and ask myself, like, okay, well, maybe I just have to be honest with myself and say I'm. I'm not willing to obey that with exactness and try to be better or, or whatever you decide to do after that. [00:18:34] Speaker C: Right. [00:18:34] Speaker B: But not, but not, I guess, expect everybody to then comply with your personal take or personal outlook. Does that make sense? [00:18:45] Speaker A: That makes sense to me. And, and I think, I think it's easy, particularly in today's world, to say, you know what, if God loves me, he'll accept me for who I am or challenge maybe some of the things that God says and says kind of how you're saying where some of these things that should be done in exactness. We make a judgment call and say, well, this is something that I think God should have more flexibility with. And we start down kind of a dangerous road of telling God how it's supposed to be rather than God telling us how it's supposed to be. And what scares me about that road is this approach or this idea that if God loves me, he accepts me for this, or if God really does. And the thing is, God's love is not what is being tested God's already exalted. He's gone through this. We don't need to test his love and prove whether or not he's a loving God. God, it's not about him getting his exaltation. It's about us. Our development is what's being tested. And if we're saying, you know what, God wants me to do X, but I think if God really loved me, he's going to let me do Y. And we push this onto a test of God's love by chasing our why, then what's happening is it's not that God's love is changing or different or I don't know if that makes sense, but what's happening is we are cheating ourselves of core development that we need to get where we need to be. There is a reason why God is laying down exact plans in certain areas or exact dimensions in, say, the foundation of a house that it is important for us to find conformity with. It is important for us to understand those dimensions. And we take for granted how merciful he is, how kind he is, how loving he is. And instead of using that to help us develop conformity, to help us to figure out how we get to measure in within those measurements, knowing that we are not going to be perfect on the first runaround, but instead of relying on that, we start pushing those limits and trying to say, because he loves me, he is okay with me completely changing the dimensions and the plans to now my new plan is this. And if God loves me, me, really, this is going to be okay with God. And we are trying to test God rather than test ourselves. We are trying to test his love. And it is costing us important development in what we are trying to become and what we are trying to develop. I don't know if that makes sense or if I am. [00:21:39] Speaker B: No, it totally makes sense and I totally agree. [00:21:42] Speaker A: Hope. I am saying that. Right. I know that can be interpreted in lots of different ways. I'm trying not to. I mean, don't read too much into this just. [00:21:50] Speaker B: Or read into it. The fact that, like, we all have issues and we all kind of have like, our things, you know, I mean, like, I don't think, I don't think that, you know, I mean, just the, the climate of, of the world right now, especially, you know what I mean, surrounding the church. It's like, yeah, like there are a lot of. There are a lot of hard things that we're still all trying to figure out and understand. [00:22:16] Speaker C: Right. [00:22:17] Speaker B: But that doesn't mean that every single one of Us doesn't have our own things that we're trying to figure out and understand ourselves. [00:22:26] Speaker C: Right? [00:22:27] Speaker B: Like, it's funny because what you just said should hopefully apply to everything. [00:22:32] Speaker C: Right? [00:22:33] Speaker B: It should apply to our day to day, you know, decisions. It should apply to who we're trying to become. It should, you know what I mean, apply to, you know, I mean, the things that we've been commanded to do, the things that we've been taught are right or wrong, you know, it's like it, it applies, I feel like, to everybody. And so I'm with you. I just, you know, you have these conversations and there's usually like two or three things culturally that kind of pop up. And again, like, for me, I'm like, cool. I'm not going to pass judgment on how any individual feels or doesn't feel about it. All we can do is say this is what we've been taught about certain things. Being obedient with exactness or believing with exactness or practicing with exactness. Take that for what it is, you know, take that for what it's worth, you know, apply that how you see fit or don't apply it how you see fit. I don't care. You know, like, I, I hope that we're all, I hope that we're all, you know, trying to figure this out and at least arrive at the same place. But, you know, I'm just saying, like, it's not, I don't know, like I, I've tried to become even more so just open to the idea that it's like, cool. Like, I read this and it makes sense to me. We talk about this and it makes sense to me on certain levels that I'm like, could talk to somebody tomorrow and they could go, here's totally what that means to me. And I could go, wow, that is also a very profound take on this. [00:24:12] Speaker A: And that's the cool thing about the way God does it through his teachings is that he does do it to the one, right? He speaks to the One. And how you read that and how you speak is, I think God gives us these requirements for exactness, for an individual relationship with him to help us a roadmap, to help build our own house. And I'm grateful that this is kind of an analogy of talking about building a temple. And the idea is we've talked in this podcast several times that our body is a temple. It houses for one, an eternal intelligence or spirit that's co eternal with God, that we are gods in our own right and living within this body. That makes this body very sacred temple. But also, as you've mentioned in the past, the idea that the Holy Ghost is a God and can reside with us, that we are a temple. And just as there is exactness in building this house or building a structure, building a temple. How we choose to be exact or how the Lord is giving us instructions is meant not as something to pick people apart from the outside, but as an individual. We look at it, we try to understand that. And I think maybe the best parable for explaining that maybe, or at least from my perspective, when the woman gets caught in adultery, right? And they're saying, hey, we caught her in the very act. And the way Jesus handles that situation, to me is actually kind of hilarious. [00:25:45] Speaker B: It's super gangster. [00:25:48] Speaker A: Well, because here's the thing in my mind, and maybe I'm reading too much into this, though. If they say we caught her in the act, then which one of them was the one in the act with her? So when Christ says, okay, the one of you that didn't do it, you cast the first stone. He's like calling them out and say, okay, she didn't do it alone. She can't sin like that alone. Which one of you was in the act with her? And if you don't want to out yourselves, because then you're going to have to stone one of your own. I mean, it was pretty. He kind of calls him on the floor on it. But at the same. [00:26:29] Speaker B: I thought he didn't even talk to him. I thought he just wrote. I thought he just. [00:26:32] Speaker A: He was drawing in the ground, which is even cooler. Man. [00:26:34] Speaker B: He's just like. He can't be bothered to even, like, say anything to these knuckleheads. He's like, check this out, and just writes it in the dirt. [00:26:41] Speaker A: Well, I think when they press him, he stops, looks up and says, hey, you. That is without sin. [00:26:47] Speaker B: Oh, man. [00:26:48] Speaker A: So which one of you. Which one of you was not with her doing this? You be the one to throw the first stone. But then you're gonna have to throw your stone at all your other friends there that were doing the act with her. I mean, which one of you wasn't involved? Yeah, I don't know. But now I digress. And I'm going into. [00:27:06] Speaker B: That's great. [00:27:08] Speaker A: Yeah. I guess what I'm saying is don't use this. This idea of exactness as an excuse to throw stones at somebody else. [00:27:16] Speaker B: Be judgmental. [00:27:17] Speaker A: Yeah. The Lord expects us to match up. And that process and what it looks like for each one is very Individual and different. And there's roads. We go to get there and we're trying to match up, we're trying to be exact. Don't beat yourself up, don't beat other people up. Know that God loves us, but don't use that love as an excuse to change the measurements on the plan either. That's all I'm saying. [00:27:42] Speaker B: Love it. [00:27:43] Speaker A: Okay, as we are talking about these temples, I just wanted to throw in the idea of holiness by separation, which I think is such a cool idea. Profane. I think there is always this idea of sacred space versus profane space. And profane comes from profanim, which literally means everything outside of the temple. So you have holy, but what makes holy holy is that it is separate from what's profane. And what makes profane profane is that it is separate from that which is holy. And so Leviticus, the book of Leviticus, which is one of those hard reads as you're getting into sacrifices and all the animals that you cut up and how many for what offering you're going to do, it means this idea of Levi is to divide. And you're dividing or cutting these sacrifices, you're cutting it up, you're separating, and you're creating holiness through separation, through cutting away parts of you that are making you profane and separating out the outside, the unholy from the holy. Is what process you go through to make a temple holy or to make you holy. And to kind of illustrate this, in the kilims 1, 6, 9, they describe the 10 degrees of holiness associated with Israel. It says there are 10 degrees of holiness. The land of Israel is holier than all the other lands. The cities that are surrounded with walls are holier than it. Within the walls of Jerusalem is holier than they. The Temple Mount is holier than it. The rampart is holier than it. The court of the women is holier than it. The court of Israel is holier than it. And when I say it, it is referring to the last object right in the list. So the court of Israel is holier than the last court. And then the court of the priest is holier than the court of Israel. And between the porch and the altar is holier than the court of the priest. And then the sanctuary is holier than between the porch and the altar. And the holy of holies is holier than them all. And it's cool that you have this gradation of holiness by separation. You've got these physical delineators that you are crossing over into something that is A little bit more sacred. And why is it sacred? Because you are getting a little bit more exclusive. You are not allowing something else to be in that space. You are keeping it out. And this idea that these commandments, by keeping things out or things in, it's creating sacred space within ourselves. And you go through this ascension. And Dr. Perry, he wrote, I believe it was his dissertation when he was going to school on sacred space in the Jewish temple and this whole delineation. And he would go into the window. Like, what side of the window is holier than what side? Like, it was pretty interesting, the hinges on the door, which are holier. And how does it. It's interesting how precise and weird they kind of got about this temple. But this idea that the temple was supposed to be symbolic of a mountain. And as you go further into the temple, you're going further into sacred space, but you're also going higher up into this hill. You're ascending closer to God to where the Hol of Holies is where God himself sits. And as we go into the temple and we're traveling in there, as you've pointed out, the audio visual going to where now it's just audio to now where you're kind of doing it on your own, where you're now the one that's speaking, but also as you're going from lighting, from it's dimmer to where it comes brighter until you're. Yeah. And you're going upstairs and ascending higher in there. Well, it is supposed to be symbolic of the effort that we are going through. It is very much like climbing a mountain. As we overcome some of those things in our life, as we start to find what can we sacrifice or like fasting, what can we do without or give up that will help give us a little bit more holiness or a little bit more like God as we approach him. So I love how the temple embodies that idea. All right. As we're talking about dimensions for temples, I think we almost have to point out here the revelation is given for them to build a temple at Independence. And obviously that temple has not been built. [00:32:36] Speaker C: Right. [00:32:37] Speaker A: It didn't come to pass. And I find it fascinating because why do we not build the temple on the temple lot today? Another church owns it. [00:32:50] Speaker C: Right. [00:32:50] Speaker A: We can't just go in and build a temple lot on a lot that we don't own. But I could not help but think of the connection there with the temple at Jerusalem. Why aren't Jews rebuilding their temple? Because it is owned by another religion. So I thought Some of the similarities between what we call Israel today and ancient Israel, I mean, with the Temple Mount being owned by a different religion is obviously one that is interesting to me. But then also think about the persecution that the saints went through in the early days versus the persecution of the Israelites when they were coming out of Egypt and what they went through. And by all means, I'm not trying to say that the saints and what they went through is equal to the Holocaust or what the Jews have gone through. Yeah, of course not. Right. But to some degree there's been a level of persecution to where you had this Exodus event. [00:33:47] Speaker C: Right. [00:33:47] Speaker A: Where they had to cross the sea. Well, and the saints had to cross the Mississippi and come back to the West. Joseph Smith not being able to come into the Holy Land to the Zion in Utah, he dies before that happens. And Moses is being taken up in the hand of the Lord where Joshua leads them in over to the area, then they pass through the mountains on either side. You got immigration canyon coming into the Salt Lake Valley versus the mountains that they passed through and had the covenant that they had to establish when they went to Israel with a fresh lake sea and a salt sea and a river Jordan that connected both of them. I don't know. For whatever reason, I find it fascinating to look at the connections between modern day Israel and the idea of the saints believing that, that we are Israel through our patriarchal blessings, through our lineage versus ancient Israel and what we read in the scriptures and population wise Latter Day Saints, there's about, what is it, 17 million? [00:34:44] Speaker B: There's a little less than 15 million Jews worldwide. [00:34:48] Speaker A: Exactly. [00:34:49] Speaker B: I read that on Twitter a few days ago. [00:34:51] Speaker A: Yeah, I mean, population almost the exact same size of nation. To me it's just kind of cool. Not that it any. I don't know, to me it's just. [00:35:01] Speaker B: Not like it proves anything scientifically. It's just an interesting nod towards like. [00:35:06] Speaker A: Oh, okay, exactly. I look at that. And that was just one more thing I wanted to add to the list of kind of cool connections, for what it's worth. Uncanny. Okay, next. Doctrine Covenants 95. The Lord says who he loves, he chastens. And just to provide a little bit of context to that, the Lord gave them the revelation to build the temple in, I believe, January here. And four months later, they hadn't done anything and they decided to call a council together to raise funds and kind of get the ball rolling on it. Okay. So they get this committee, the Temple committee, and then one month later, the temple committee still hasn't acted and done anything towards building a temple. No one has acted on building a temple. And so the Lord says, wait a second, I gave you a commandment to build a temple. And here we are five months later, you formed a committee who's done nothing. What gives? And then he kind of lays it down heavy on him and he says, because I love you, I'm going to chasten you. I'm going to kind of go after this. And this reminds me, maybe not quite to this extent, like in my family trying to get kids, there's two times that it's almost impossible to round kids up, right? Maybe even three, because you've got dinner time when dinner's ready. And I'm guilty of this too, because I don't always get in there. My poor wife's the one that's always left out there trying to round everyone up. Scriptures, trying to round them up for scriptures. And then bedtime, trying to get them like, chased into their beds. And you say, okay, I told you to go to bed. And like 30 minutes later you are still out there. It is frustrating. But this is five months. It is not like 20 minutes. This is five months. And so the Lord's kind of waking him up and saying, do this. And why is it the saints let five months go by where they didn't act on God's commandments? And the thing is, context wise, in, in Jackson county, they just got kicked out. Their. Their press was destroyed and they signed the thing saying, you have to leave Jackson county by. By certain date. So Missouri, they're going through some pretty significant hardships. And then over in Ohio and Kirtland, they're trying to figure out how to support these Jackson County Saints. How do we take care of them? What do we need to do to support them? And so it's like they're thinking, we've kind of got higher priorities right now. Maybe you could wait until we are done taking care of these emergencies and fires and then we will get to building a temple. But God said, no, I asked you to build a temple. I am aware of what is going on. Go do it. And going back to that idea of exactness and trying to play on the Lord's love and mercy, why is it then, if the Lord loves us so much that he insists on putting hard things on us or asking us almost to do the impossible when we're already drowning? I mean, what if you would have asked Abraham to sacrifice his son that he had already chased out and kicked out, as opposed to Isaac, who was supposed to have the blessings come through. That's a terrible example. What if you are to have him sacrifice somebody else servant's kid as opposed to his own kid? [00:38:35] Speaker C: Why? [00:38:35] Speaker A: Why does the Lord ask us to give up something that's hard? Or why does he. When it feels like we're drowning and we need a little bit of help and we're reaching out to the Lord and praying, asking for him to throw us a line, throw us a life preserver, and it feels like he throws us a brick. It's kind of what it seems like, right? And I think there is value in having high expectations. And I think there is value in stretching and putting us through a little bit of tribulation, putting us through a little bit of fire. And so, yes, he is love, yes, he is mercy. He is all of those things, but he is also, because of that love, he gives us opportunities to where we feel overwhelmed, to where we feel stressed out. I mean, look at Job and what he went through. If the Lord loved Job, why didn't he say, you know what? It's good enough. I know he'll. But he gives us those opportunities to help us develop and help us go through what we need to go through. And maybe that's why I'm going back to that idea of exactness. It might not feel easy, it might not feel right. And maybe we feel like the Lord is just going to give us a pass on this, but you'd be surprised. Sometimes it's when we're struggling the most. The Lord expects us to be able to get the most growth out of this. [00:40:02] Speaker B: It also gives us an opportunity to prove ourselves, too, though. When I was teaching at high school, like at a charter school, one of the first bits of advice that I was given from the kind of like the director of our program was like, challenge those students to do hard things harder than they think they can do and expect that they're going to do them. He's like, you will always be blown away by how people that engages people's desire to rise to the occasion to prove to you, to prove to themselves that they can do hard things right? And as much as it sucks for us at times, like, I do think that we. And again, this is back to the exactness is that we're sometimes asked to believe things that might go against our better social judgment. We're asked to believe or do things that might go against. You know what I mean? Like our own, even personal experiences and things, right? And sometimes we don't know why, and sometimes we don't have the answer. And I think that the idea is that we're given opportunities to choose how we're going to accept these challenges and accept these responsibilities and rise to the occasion or choose not to. But it's crazy. Back to this high school thing. It's crazy. The amount of self worth, the amount of pride in accomplishing hard things that these young kids could have because they were given an opportunity to do something uncomfortable and hard. And when they accomplished it, their own self worth skyrocketed. Instead of me as the teacher being like, well, I don't want anybody to feel bad if they can't, like, make it. So I'm going to. I'm just going to, like, make all of my expectations, like, super low so that everybody can kind of do it. I mean, that. That just. That cheapens the experience and it's unfair to the students. Would have been unfair for the students for me not to give them an opportunity to really succeed or fail and learn from it, hopefully. [00:42:37] Speaker C: Right. Right. [00:42:38] Speaker B: And so again, this. This idea of the refiner's fire, this idea of God giving us these things to. To like, test us, like, I. I see that in some circumstances, but I think that it helps me more to see it as God's giving us not. Not a. Not a trial to test us as much, but a chance to really dig deep and learn of our own greatness and discover our own greatness in looking at a challenge and going, like, okay, okay, I accept that. You know, like, okay, you don't think I can do that? I can do that. And it's much less of a test and more of a challenge. And when I look at it like that, at least for me personally, I go, hey, this is an awesome opportunity for me to discover even more greatness in myself. [00:43:35] Speaker A: Yes. And it might not feel like it at the moment, but it's almost like a compliment. Like the Lord is saying, I know that you're going through a lot, but I also know that because of how amazing you are, you can also handle this. And I want you to realize that, too. I want you to see who you are through my eyes and giving us that opportunity to shine. And something about rising to the occasion, something about being able to meet those high expectations and having someone who loves you and cares you and who is willing to coach you, but also who has super high expectations, that allows you to rise to that. It's a very fulfilling relationship. [00:44:23] Speaker B: Totally agree. So it's awesome. [00:44:28] Speaker A: Yeah. It doesn't. Doesn't make it any easier. [00:44:32] Speaker B: But the thing is, it's interesting, though, because all of those things, when you look at, in hindsight and you look at all of the things that you learn from that or the growth that you learn from that, and sometimes it's literally as simple as having faith and believing, even when that's hard, because heaven knows, even that's hard sometimes, right? It's like sometimes the challenge is as simple as. Not as simple. It is as basic as, yeah, here's a lot of stuff that you probably don't understand. Here's a lot of stuff that you might have real disconnects with. Are you going to push through that? Are you going to have faith through that until you can understand, or are you going to continue to keep, you know, keep with it even if you don't understand, even if it feels wrong or whatever it is, when you get to look back on those things, when it does, click, it's like, oh, my goodness. That was, that was an opportunity for me to really strengthen my faith. It was totally a make or break point. And I'm glad that I made it through that because now I feel even more anchored. [00:45:52] Speaker C: Right? [00:45:52] Speaker A: Yes. [00:45:53] Speaker B: The hindsight of that, I feel like is. Is some of the, for me, at least some of my most profound, like, anchor moments where, I mean, I have questions all the time. I have, I have a lot of conflict, you know what I mean, at times, you know, socially or whatever it is with some things. But it's like, luckily I was given opportunities to really, really anchor what I believe in along the way so that I can always look back on those things. It's like, thank goodness I was given those things. Thank goodness I was given the opportunity that was, that was a solid make or break opportunity because those make or break opportunities only get gnarlier as you go along. So thank goodness I had them early on enough that I was able to be strengthened and have something to, you know, fall back on when, when they, when those, when those moments continue to come up. [00:46:57] Speaker A: And. And I think that is exactly what it means to be called Israel. As we have been talking about the comparison between ancient Israel and modern Israel, because Jacob himself, who was the very first, the OG Israel, right, He was the one whose name was changed to Israel. The reason why it was changed is because he wrestled with God and wouldn't let go. So who was the one afflicting him? It was God. The one that is supposed to be helping him, the one that was supposed to be supporting him, the one that he should be able to turn to for refuge. He's wrestling with Them. I wrestled in high school. I didn't. Trying to wrestle for 10 minutes straight or five minutes straight, with all the energy that you have, it wears you out. It exhausts you. It beats you down, right? It's a long time. [00:47:55] Speaker B: Oh, yeah. I wrestled, too, and I was terrible. And then I had to quit after my freshman year because of how terrible it was. So, yes, I do actually know what you're saying. [00:48:04] Speaker A: It's brutal. [00:48:05] Speaker B: So brutal. [00:48:06] Speaker A: I can't. Having gone through wrestling in high school, I cannot imagine Jacob wrestling not even with an equal, but wrestling with a God. And all through the night, until the sun comes up the next day, that's the longest round in all of wrestling history with a God. And he refuses to let go. He refuses to give up, despite everything. So as you are talking about that, Nate, that faith that sometimes we have those challenging moments that might shock our faith and say, do you still believe? And yet he wouldn't let go. And finally God says, what is it? What do you want? And he says, I want a blessing. And so God blesses him and changes his name to Israel. The first changing of Israel is this idea that you persevere, that you were able to hold on despite every challenge that got thrown your way. Despite as much as it seemed like God was being unfair or whatever the case may be, you were still able to hold on. And I think that's what it means to be Israel today is knowing that we have these commandments or knowing that we have these pressures and finding a way to hold on to God and still look for that comfort and that blessing and that helping hand, even through everything that we've been through, that we pierce through that to the other side and earn that title, earn that name. Because how good would it feel to be in a place with all of these amazing people from scriptures, who are amazing because of what. Because of the trials they went through. Nephi was nothing if it wasn't for his brothers and the difficulties. And Abraham would be, what, without the story of him going to war and rescuing the kings and having to sacrifice his son, and yet still getting him? It is these adversial moments that make these people great. And if they are all sitting there and you know what they went through, how can you be comfortable in their presence without that story of your own, of, you know, this was really challenging for me to believe. This is what our day and age was going through. And yet this is how I persevered. This is how I earned my name, Israel. And this is how I held on to hope. When everything else disappeared. [00:50:35] Speaker B: Well said. [00:50:38] Speaker A: I guess the last thing I wanted to mention here from these sections was in the next section when he says that there is a very grievous sin. And he mentions this a few times. And he says, walking in darkness at noon of day. And we say, okay, walking in darkness at noon of day. There should be no reason you are walking in the dark if it is the middle of the day. And the specific example is kind of going back to this idea too, where the Lord had given them a commandment. The Lord told them what needs to happen, and they are still not listening. And that is what is grievous to the Lord, is when he says, this is what needs to happen. And we kind of look at it and say, eh, I get it. But I am going to do it on my own terms or in my own time, or I am going to wait. It is like turning off the lights when you have all the light in the world telling you exactly what needs to happen. And the Lord says that that's what's grievous to him. I don't know that I need to go too much more into that. I think. I think that about wraps it up for this section. [00:51:48] Speaker B: I love it. Hey, we did end a little early today. [00:51:51] Speaker A: Nice. [00:51:52] Speaker B: Even with me just trying to always just derail things, you know. [00:51:57] Speaker A: That's good. We owe it to our listeners to keep it brief. At least give them a break. [00:52:03] Speaker B: Well, brief is also. I'm not sure I would use necessarily that word, you know, eight minutes shorter than a normal podcast. I mean, I'm still sure that they're very appreciative, but let's. Let's not oversell what it is we actually are doing. All right, what are we talking about next week? [00:52:19] Speaker A: Next week we're diving into Doctrine Covenants 98 through 101. And the subtitle says, for the Salvation. [00:52:25] Speaker B: Of Zion from the Salvation of Zion. I love it. All right, well, thanks for listening until next week. [00:52:32] Speaker A: See ya.