Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: Foreign.
[00:00:15] Speaker B: Welcome to the weekly Deep Dive podcast on the Add On Education Network.
The podcast where we take the weekly Come follow me discussion and try to add a little insight and unique perspective. I am your host, Jason Lloyd, here with me in the studio. My friend and this show's producer, Nate Pifer.
[00:00:31] Speaker A: What's up?
[00:00:32] Speaker B: Hey, Nate.
[00:00:34] Speaker A: Hey, buddy.
[00:00:35] Speaker B: Been kind of a busy day. Yeah, for both of us.
[00:00:37] Speaker A: Oh, my goodness. Oh, my goodness. Yes. But none of our listeners care about our busy lives. Yeah, well, maybe they do. I don't know.
We care about your busy lives listeners, just so you know.
[00:00:49] Speaker B: Hey, and by the way, thank you for taking time to listen to our podcast. We appreciate it.
[00:00:54] Speaker A: Thank you. For sure. It's why we keep doing it. One, we have a good time doing it. We love doing it. And Jason and I are buds and we love chatting about kind of down to earth, you know, perspectives on some of these things that, you know, have been talked about and rehashed a gazillion times. So it's hopefully, hopefully if you're listening, it's because you get the chance to hear just two regular people talking about, talking about regular stuff and hopefully putting a little bit of, you know, unique perspective like, like you always say, Jason.
[00:01:30] Speaker B: Yeah, we try to find something a little bit different, a little new.
Speaking of rehashing things, doctrine and Covenants 93, it's an amazing section. I love what it teaches, but a lot of the things that it teaches coming into the presence of God, the significance of light and intelligence, the importance of fathers.
It's things that we have hashed in a lot of other sections.
This episode, especially where we've given kind of a bonus content might be a little bit shorter than what we're used to. We'll see kind of how it goes and where we go with this. We do want to keep it unique and fresh without going over the same stuff too much.
But with that kind of introduction, I do want to read verse one. It gets us right into the content. And one of my favorite verses of all scripture, verily, thus saith the Lord, it shall come to pass that every soul who forsaketh his sins. And. And note this is giving us a recipe. I think this recipe is pretty important. Forsaketh the sins, cometh unto me and calleth on my name, and obeyeth my voice, and keepeth my commandments shall see my face and know that I am.
And it seems like we have been hitting this a lot lately. I mean, we had the oath and covenant of the priesthood, which was all about Moses preparing his people to enter the presence of God, and they rejected that.
But then we talked about the Melchizedek priesthood holding the keys to the presence of God and the ordinances of the Melchizedek priesthood is how the presence of God or the glory of God is manifest unto people. So you see this in 84. We talked about it again in 88. It just keeps showing up in these recent sections.
And that is because context to these sections is preparation for the very first temple being built.
[00:03:29] Speaker A: Can I ask you a question?
[00:03:30] Speaker B: Please do.
[00:03:32] Speaker A: Do you.
Oh, man, I don't. Maybe I don't want to get that. That personal with the question. Uh, oh, maybe I do.
[00:03:42] Speaker B: Oh, dear.
[00:03:44] Speaker A: Do you pray to see God?
I have.
I'm. I'm fascinated by this. I was. I was having this discussion with my dad, and we were kind of talking about some of the stuff that we talked about on the podcast, and he'd kind of said, you know, like, you know, as. As, you know, as we pray to seek God. And I'm like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.
I don't. And he's like, oh, really? And I'm like. I'm like, yeah. I'm like, we just got done talking about how the children of Israel, you know, Moses came down and said, hey, I want you all. I want all you guys to come up and see God. And they're like, you go see him for us. And how. I feel like I kind of was, like, super judgmental and harsh on that. And then it only took me about seven seconds of actually thinking through this to go, man, that's actually. That's a heavy thing.
That's a heavy.
Like, there's no going back at that point. Right?
[00:04:37] Speaker B: It's something I've wanted since I was a kid. And not just have I prayed to see God, but I'll tell you, I've sat in church and I've looked for him.
And when I go to the temple, and I've gone to the temple fairly regularly throughout my life with that in mind.
In psalms, it talks about, this is the circle of those who seek the face of God. Talking about those going to the temple, almost a temple interview, psalm.
When I go to the temple, I always hope for it. I always want to. Not just do I pray, but I have looked for God, physically looked to see if I could ever see.
[00:05:20] Speaker A: See him. Are we commanded to do that?
[00:05:23] Speaker B: I don't know if we're commanded to do that.
[00:05:24] Speaker A: Well, he does say, that's what I think. I think we might be.
[00:05:28] Speaker B: I Think he says, seek me. Yes, seek me, and you shall find me.
[00:05:34] Speaker A: Trust me. This has been like. I'm asking you this in, like, all seriousness, because it's been a pretty, like, oh, man. I don't know, like a pretty eye opening, I feel like, puts it lightly, but it's kind of not. It's not. It's not harrowing, but it's definitely like a.
Kind of a shaking a little bit. I feel like for me, like, when we were kind of talking about that, I was like, oh, man, am I, like, the only guy not praying to see?
[00:06:02] Speaker B: Like, I don't think you're the only one.
[00:06:04] Speaker A: I'm like. Mostly because I'm like, oh, man, that's. That's loaded, man. There's a lot that comes with that, if that were to ever happen.
And it is funny because as we have been going through these things more and more, I am like, oh, man, are we supposed to be seeking this? And it is like I am getting an answer that I don't know if I necessarily love.
[00:06:27] Speaker B: Well, and it is interesting. You look at missionaries, their whole. What is the purpose of a missionary? To bring people to Christ.
[00:06:35] Speaker A: I know, but can't we do that without having to see him right now?
[00:06:38] Speaker B: Well, what.
[00:06:39] Speaker A: How.
[00:06:40] Speaker B: How close do you mean? I mean, we're going to bring him close enough to where we can see him from a distance, but it's still fuzzy enough that we don't actually see him, or.
[00:06:47] Speaker A: I mean, just close enough that I don't have to, like, deal with the weight of all the commitment of having to be a way better person than I am right now. How about that?
It's interesting, as we read through these and as we've been talking about it more and more, I've wanted to ask you about that.
[00:07:05] Speaker B: Yeah, it's been something that I've looked forward to for a long time.
[00:07:11] Speaker A: How does this have. So, I mean, this is what we're reading about, though, right?
[00:07:15] Speaker B: It is what we are reading about, and it is taking a prominent role here in Doctrine and Covenants because the temple is coming.
And just like Moses, he didn't just say, okay, God's coming, let's go.
It says, prepare them, wash them, make them clean, so that when they are there, it is a different experience.
Prepare the people so that they enjoy this experience.
And that is what this section is going to be about because he prefaces it here in verse one with this is what needs to happen.
Forsake your sins, Cometh unto me, calleth on my name, obeyeth my voice.
Maybe I should ask you another question.
It says, obeyeth my voice and keepeth my commandments. Are those two separate things?
[00:08:14] Speaker A: I could probably argue both ways, but I feel like that. That probably separated into two separate things on purpose.
[00:08:23] Speaker B: I think you're right.
[00:08:25] Speaker A: If you were to ask me the difference between those two, I would say that you do have a lot of things written down in commandment form, right? Like a set of rules or kind of rule book and the way that the Lord speaks to us through the Holy Ghost. I mean, an example that pops up at least right in my mind is Nephi having to go and kill Laban.
I mean, the commandment was thou shalt not kill.
And the higher law of listening to the voice of the Lord telling you to go do something maybe trumps that. The idea that, like, yes, this is the commandment, and I'm telling you that in this circumstance, you're not necessarily disobeying this commandment. You're doing what I'm explaining to you, needs to be done. I don't know. Does that make any sense?
[00:09:22] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:09:23] Speaker A: So I would say that those two things probably are being separated on purpose.
[00:09:28] Speaker B: I agree with you. And as you were saying that, and I was thinking about this myself, the Good Samaritan story comes to my mind because what commandment did the Levite break?
I do not think he broke any commandment, right? Or the priest. What commandment did he break? By not taking care of the person, Obviously they did something wrong.
Obviously they should have loved their fellow man, right? But did they break any commandments by not helping him? Were they technically, in fact, the reason?
[00:09:57] Speaker A: By the law? No.
[00:09:58] Speaker B: Right, right by the law. The reason why they didn't help him is because if you have, if you're bleeding, right, it can make you ritually unclean and maybe even physically unclean. I mean, if you've got issues of the disease of the blood or whatnot, right? If they stop and take care of this guy and he bleeds all over, and they are on their way to the temple to perform ordinances, they are ruled out. They can't perform those ordinances. So they have to balance in their mind what is more important, the ordinances that I am going to be doing at the temple or this man's life. And if they say my temple work is more important than this man, then they pass him by if he were to die while in their care. If you are in the same room with a dead body, unclean, you can't go do your job at the temple.
So by Prioritizing their work at the temple and making sure that they could keep those commandments, if you will, the law they neglected caring for somebody who needed their help. Were they breaking the commandments? Technically, probably not.
But if the Lord was speaking to them and asking them to care for somebody who needed their help, and they were not listening to his spirit or hearing his voice, I think, like you say, there is a difference there. Obeyeth my voice and keepeth my commandments. And how do you balance those two and do both of them at the same time?
In the example you brought up, was it possible for Nephi to keep the commandments and obey his voice? If the commandment is thou shalt not kill, but the voice is killing.
[00:11:41] Speaker A: And like you've kind of explained in the past, too, that those two things didn't fight against each other, especially because of Hebrew law at that time too, which you've explained, and I think you've explained on the podcast, and tell me if this is wrong, but that you're responsible for whatever the punishment would have been for your false accusation. Right?
[00:12:03] Speaker B: Right. If you seek a punishment for someone else and you're accusing them falsely, like in this case, Laban, accusing them of being armed thieves and seeking the capital punishment, death penalty for them, that false accusation means that he was now guilty of accusing someone falsely of crime and his punishment is the punishment he sought for them. Therefore he was worthy of the death punishment.
[00:12:27] Speaker A: So on face value to Nephi, he was having a hard time with this because he's one. I've never killed anybody before, obviously, like, I keep the commandments. Right. And at the face value, it's hard to see past thou shalt not kill in a circumstance like this.
And that it's the voice of the Lord and we don't know all of the things that even the voice of the Lord explained to him at that time. Or maybe just like, no, it's important for the rest of your generations that this has to happen and he's been delivered into your hands for this purpose. Like, that's what this is. Right. Hope, hopefully at some point along the way, the voice of the Lord was able to maybe clear up some of the other surrounding details, because that would have been a hard thing to live with, I would imagine.
[00:13:18] Speaker B: Yes. And in Nephi's case, it's almost. It's almost a little bit easy to understand. You look at it, the rationalization, it's better that one man perish than a whole nation dwindle in unbelief, I think, is the.
Is what the Spirit is telling him. Right. And then you have the legal case that can be made there.
Where it gets tricky is look at Abraham sacrificing Isaac for what good instead of a whole nation being preserved. You are talking about a whole nation perishing ending.
[00:13:49] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:13:51] Speaker B: And you can't look at Isaac and say, he had it coming.
That kid did something worthy of being killed.
Now you are being. The voice of God is asking you to do something.
But is it different if it is sacrificing? And I think the only thing that redeems Abraham in this case is simply the fact that God promised him that through Isaac, he would have posterity.
And so he trusted God. His faith in God was that somehow, even if I sacrifice Isaac, I still get to keep Isaac.
God is somehow going to be a man of his word. And by killing him, I shall retain him.
As absurd as that sounds. Believing in the absurd and being able to put all of that trust in God and knowing that he wouldn't actually lose Isaac even as he was prepared to go through everything.
It's just one of the most incredible stories of all scripture.
Maybe we can give that more time when we get to it in the Old Testament next year, because sure will, it deserves a deeper look. But I guess backing back up to the point we were talking about, I think the voice and following the voice is different from keeping my commandments. The commandments, in some sense is easier. We know the commandments. We've been taught the commandments, and we understand those expectations.
But the voice requires us to at least hear the voice.
How do we follow his voice if we haven't heard his voice?
[00:15:36] Speaker A: It is kind of the idea of like a higher law and things. Right?
It's easy. It's easy to love God and hate your enemies.
It's hard to love God and love your enemies and pray for them and the whole thing. Right?
It's. It's easy to.
It's easy. It's easy to know, okay, tithing is 10%.
And then the higher love, like. But also be willing to give everything that you have. You know what I mean? Like. Like that. It is interesting because I love the idea of it's easier to administer than it is to minister because one just takes so much more of an actual effort and connection and a thinking outside of the rules or standard or format that we can unfortunately kind of get stuck into home teaching versus ministering or whatever that is. Right.
[00:16:29] Speaker B: And to take it to a fresh example where we just came off talking about the word of wisdom.
[00:16:34] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:16:35] Speaker B: How Much easier would it be if they would just define simply eat this or don't eat that, or website.
[00:16:40] Speaker A: This has all of the kosher foods versus all of the non kosher. You know what I mean?
[00:16:45] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:16:46] Speaker A: Not to throw anybody under the bus, but it would be nice. It would be easier, right, if it was just like, here's a grocery list.
[00:16:53] Speaker B: Here's.
[00:16:53] Speaker A: Click here to download the grocery list of everything you can have. And if it's not on this list, you can't have it.
[00:17:00] Speaker B: And you have there. In a sense, the word of wisdom is like the commandments of God. And that it is lining out some pretty good ideas.
But the word of God maybe speaking to us is telling us, hey, by the way, maybe we should get a little bit more exercise. Or by the way, maybe we should drink a little bit less soda. Or maybe we should. Maybe there's something there that we feel like the Spirit is telling us.
And as we think about those things and we feel that Spirit guiding us and we follow that, I think that's different from just keeping the commandments of God.
But step one, you've got to hear the Spirit. You can't follow the Spirit if you don't hear the Spirit. So there's something more to just.
Do you go to church on Sunday? Do you pay your tithing? Do you go to the temple? It's what did the Spirit tell you to do today? And did you follow that prompting? What about when you felt like you needed to help somebody, like the Good Samaritan?
Were you willing to go the extra effort for this little deal when you felt like that's what required of you?
There's something more to it than just keeping the commandments.
[00:18:08] Speaker A: I like it.
[00:18:09] Speaker B: Okay.
And keepeth my commandments, shall see my face and know that I am and that I am the true light that lighteth every man that cometh into the world.
I can't remember. Was there anything we were talking about as far as entering the presence of God?
I think we are talking about Moses preparing his people.
And the idea of, prepare yourselves, make yourselves clean. And so as we are going through this list, this idea of forsake your sins, listen to the Spirit. These are the preparatory steps that need to happen before you can see my face.
And the cool thing is you look at doctrine and covenants 88, and we got to the end there when it says, go and learn all of these things. And they organized the School of the Prophets, almost like, aside from just spiritual preparation, let's prepare ourselves mentally. Let's learn as Much as we can about things in the future, things in the past, things in the world, above the world, below the world, all things.
So you're going to see that reflected here in 93. He's going to talk about this again, about the concept of truth, what truth entails, and the importance of learning truth in connection with seeing God.
Educate yourselves. Not just clean yourselves physically, but also prepare your minds in a sense that you are learning, engaging, and seeking knowledge. I think seeking knowledge is a sign of conversion.
When we are converted and we love the light, we desire more light. Cleaveth to light. Wisdom. Cleaveth to wisdom. And I think that is a sign that we are converted when we are eagerly listening to try to get whatever we can drip out of the sponge or whatever last drip of knowledge we can pull in and take, if that makes sense.
[00:19:58] Speaker A: Yep.
[00:19:59] Speaker B: And then at the end of this section, and we'll take some time to talk about this here in a minute, it says the responsibility of fathers to teach their children and be better fathers. And the Lord actually calls them out and says, you're not doing a good job.
Be a better dad.
In preparation for this temple experience, in preparation to entering the presence of God, being a better parent.
Again, Moses idea of preparing the people, washing them. This is what Joseph Smith is doing, preparing people for temple ordinances.
Okay, let's go.
This idea of the Father and the Son, this is one of the most confusing concepts, I think, of all religion.
Who is the Father, who is the Son? Why do they say that they are one? Are they one being, two beings, three beings? What's the deal here?
And it gets a little convoluted, but I think it actually adds some clarity to it. It says in verse three, and that I am in the Father and the Father in Me. And the Father and I are one.
The Father because He gave me of his fullness.
So just breaking this statement down. The Father, because He gave me of his fullness.
He's not saying the Father is a separate being. He's saying the Father is a title of Christ because he has the fullness of God. He is like God the Father.
[00:21:29] Speaker A: Right?
[00:21:30] Speaker B: He is a Father in the sense that he has the fullness of God and He is the Son. Because I was in the world and made flesh my tabernacle and dwelt among the sons of men. I was in the world and received of my Father, and the works of him were plainly manifested. And John saw and bore record of the fullness of my glory and the fullness of John's record is hereafter to be revealed. Which is exciting that we will see a record from John at some point in time that has more to it.
But going on. And he bore record saying, I saw his glory, that he was in the beginning, before the world was. And I just want to.
This idea that you have a father separate from you have the Son and God the Father, and Jesus Christ the Son. We understand that a lot.
But the idea that Christ is also the Father and the Son in one individual person, I think maybe we don't understand as well.
And the imagery.
When someone is created or born into the world, it is because the Father gave part of his life to a mother and part of his life force, or his essence of who he is to her. And then she gave birth to a child, right? And we have talked about baptism as this rebirth.
Moses, Adam explains it very well in the book of Moses. And the pearl of great price, when he says that you must be born again, born of water, born of the blood, born of the Spirit, just like you were born in the world the first time. And the Spirit is the Holy Ghost, the water being the waters of baptism, and the blood being the blood of Christ that was shed for them in the atonement.
This rebirth comes through baptism, which is part of the church. And the church is the bride of Christ, the wife, if you will, the mom.
The bride is prepared for the groom, and the groom gave his life for the bride. So his atonement is almost like this act of conception. And we saw this in Isaiah 53. When you look at the idea of when he was giving his life, that was when he saw the travail of his soul. This idea that now more is the children of the desolate wife than the marriage. Because now all of a sudden, the church can have children. They can save people because they can be born in there through the waters of baptism. Because Christ gave his life, this act of conceiving or conception. But Christ becomes the Father who is willing to give to the Church so that the church might save through the ordinance of baptism and have this newborn. So Christ is the Father in a sense.
And he is the Father not just because he gave well, he is the Father because He gave his life. But he is also the Father because He was the Creator. He created the world. He created us. He was the God of the Old Testament. When we talk about Elohim or God, it was referring to Christ as the God of the Old Testament.
So he is the Father in that sense, but he was also the Son in the Sense that when he came to earth, he did not receive a fullness at first. That is what it is going to say here. The scripture is going to go through that a little bit. But he received a little bit here, a little bit there. And it almost had to become like this child that had to grow up into this role.
And he subjected himself to the will of the Father by becoming the Son. Obedient, humble. And so he really takes both roles in the same Persona.
Not to say that there is only just one person.
There was God who introduced him and said, this is my beloved Son. There are two beings. But I think where it gets confusing is Christ also within himself, takes on both roles. The role of the Father and the role of the Son, both the one that directed and guided and was the God that saved everyone, that was their Father, but also the Son that came down here and was obedient.
So I think they explain it maybe a little bit better through here. And it is kind of beautiful when they talk through it. John was the one that we are quoting a lot at the very beginning of the Book of John.
So I don't know if that makes sense or if that helps anybody.
[00:25:49] Speaker A: That's a really good, articulate way of talking through that, I think, for sure.
[00:25:54] Speaker B: Yeah. And maybe we can be a little less critical of other religions that view them as one person with three.
[00:25:59] Speaker A: I mean, yeah, I mean, it's been so confusing.
[00:26:03] Speaker B: It is. And he does take on those roles, even to the point of the light of Christ is in you. How is that different from the Holy Ghost? Yes, and Christ really does embody these roles as an individual, but there are also separate individuals.
And see, the worlds were made by Him. Men were made by him, all things were made by him. That's verse 10. So it's another, you know, tip to why he's the Father, but then also to why he's the son. In verse 13. And he received not of the fullness first, but continued from grace to grace until he received a fullness. And thus he was called the Son of God because he received not the fullness at first.
[00:26:49] Speaker A: Cool.
[00:26:51] Speaker B: And, yeah, how intimidating would that be if you're Christ and if you did not have a fullness, if you are going to that cross and you have to have faith in yourself.
Do you know, did Christ know that he was going to be able to resurrect after he died?
[00:27:14] Speaker A: It is interesting. I think it was in Jesus the Christ that I was reading this, that there was talk by Talmadge that he posed the idea that maybe even Christ himself was learning what he could do along the way. Right. Because he didn't just come out of the gates resurrecting people from the dead.
Like, he came out of the gates changing water into wine, you know, like some fairly, you know, smaller things before.
[00:27:49] Speaker B: He got to the point where.
[00:27:50] Speaker A: And his miracles progressively got greater and greater and greater until the ultimate miracle. Right. Of. Of resurrecting yourself.
[00:28:00] Speaker B: Yeah. Going somewhere? You don't know what it looks like. Or maybe he did. I.
[00:28:04] Speaker A: Well, that's the thing is, I think that. That's the interesting thought is that we don't know.
And.
And again, Talmadge even poses that Christ himself may have been.
That. That was. That those were his. Those were his tests of faith. Right.
Was.
I'm gonna do this because I'm the Son of God and that's what I do. Right. And that even after some of these things, he may have even himself been like, I don't know. I don't know. But I think it's. I think it's an. It's an interesting. It's an interesting thing to think about.
[00:28:46] Speaker B: Yeah, it would be interesting to see what his thoughts were, what he struggled with. I mean, he was tempted, but he had to trust in. Well, he trusted in God the Father, but really he trusted in himself as well and the role that he had to play.
But I find it, even as Christ embodies these roles, these different roles and takes on these different responsibilities, there is this sense of progression and this idea of progression even from this Holy Ghost to the Spirit of God. When he gets baptized, you have the dove appearing as a sign in the form of a dove. So this idea of the Spirit, and then he moves into the role of the Son, who takes on and begins his ministry and sacrifices himself and ultimately becoming the Father because he has gone through the atonement, he has ascended to his throne and become the Father once more. But this idea of progression is wrapped up into not just him, but us. And I want to just read this quote from Joseph Smith, who said, after a person has faith in Christ, repents of his sins, and is baptized for the remission of his sins, and receives the Holy Ghost by laying on hands, which is the first comforter, then let him continue to humble himself before God, hungering and thirsting after righteousness and living by every word of God. And the Lord will soon say unto him, son, thou shalt be exalted. When the Lord has thoroughly proved him and finds that this man is determined to serve him at all hazards. Then the man will find his calling and election made sure. Then it will be his privilege to receive the other comforter which the Lord has promised the saints, as is recorded in the testimony of St. John in the 14th chapter, from the 12th to the 27th verses.
Now, what is this comforter, this other comforter? It is no more nor less than the Lord Jesus Christ himself.
When any man obtains this last comforter, he will have the personage of Jesus Christ to attend him or appear unto him from time to time. And even he will manifest the Father unto him. And they will take up their abode with him. And the visions of the heavens will be opened unto him. And the Lord will teach him face to face. And he may have a perfect knowledge of the mysteries of the kingdom of God.
And this is the state and place the ancient saints arrived at when they had such glorious visions. Isaiah, Ezekiel, John upon the island of Patmos, St. Paul in the three heavens, and all the saints who had communion with the general assembly of the Church of the Firstborn.
And it's beautiful to see that progression play out.
First you receive the Holy Ghost. Then if you follow the Holy Ghost, it gets to the point where you receive the Son.
And then by and by, the Son will introduce you to the Father and God becoming man, so that man might become God and Christ, embodying these three roles. Yet us going through that same type of progression in our own lives, it is really cool.
And there is something neat in these verses where Christ calls them friends.
[00:32:10] Speaker A: And.
[00:32:11] Speaker B: He says, I called you servants for the benefit of the world, but I'm calling you friends.
And it's not the first time he's done this. And why it's significant is in John as we're talking. I mean, this is very closely connected with John, this section.
But when in the New Testament, In John, chapter 15, the Lord explains, I'm calling you friends from henceforth.
Because the servant does not know the Father's business or the Master's business, but friends do.
And so this idea of when you get to the point of friends, there's not this question, oh, well, God knows. No, now God is showing you. And you know, too.
You're not just this underling, you're in on the know, if you will. You've received that greater light, that greater knowledge, and he's taking you in and explaining and showing you what he's doing and why he's doing and how it works. And you're no longer this servant relationship as much as now, from henceforth, you are his friend.
[00:33:19] Speaker A: Love it.
[00:33:19] Speaker B: It's a cool blessing.
Okay.
There's a lot of cool things about this. Like I said, we've covered a lot of this. I think maybe to.
Maybe to keep this simple, we do talk about intelligence a little bit. I'm just going to skip through some of this kind of quick, and then maybe we end on.
The role of parents.
Says, no man receiveth the fullness unless he keepeth his commandments.
He that keepeth his commandments receives truth and light until he is glorified in truth and knowledge of all things. This idea again, if you want to see, receive more light. If you want to receive more truth. So how do you see God?
Well, you've got to keep his commandments. You've got to listen, you've got to obey the Spirit, you got to do these things. And you don't receive a fullness at first. A little bit here, a little bit there. The Spirit will keep giving you more. You receive more word to the point where it's no longer the Spirit giving you the word. Christ comes and starts giving you his word. You just build on that.
But it does talk.
Man was also in the beginning with God. That is an important statement to me. Man was also in the beginning with God.
We think of God having existed before us and God as our creator. God was there as a generation, maybe above us, and then man was there. But here you can look at this two different ways. You can say, well before the world was created, man was there with God, but God was there before man. But Joseph Smith also taught that man was eternal, just as God is eternal, that we have no beginning, and so that we've existed just as long as God has existed. Which is an interesting thought. But it says man was also in the beginning with God. Intelligence, or the light of truth, was not created or made. Neither indeed can be so. Part of us was never created, cannot be made.
We are eternal with God. We have been around as long as he has. That's an interesting thought.
All truth is independent in that sphere in which God has placed it to act for itself as all intelligence also. Otherwise there is no existence. Behold, here is the agency of man, and here is the condemnation of man.
Because that which was from the beginning is plainly manifest unto them. And they receive not the light. So why are they condemned? They receive not the light. Every man whose spirit receiveth not light is under condemnation. For man is spirit. The elements are eternal. And that's an interesting statement. Elements are eternal elements being our physical bodies.
Science says the same thing. Law of conservation of mass.
Matter cannot be law, of conservation of matter, excuse me, Matter cannot be created nor can it be destroyed.
So the elements are eternal. The spirit and element, inseparably connected, receive a fullness of joy. When separated, they cannot receive that. The elements are the tabernacle of God. Yea, man is the tabernacle of God. Even temples, and whatsoever temple is defiled, God shall destroy that temple. And the glory of God is intelligence. Or in other words, light and truth.
So let me just sum this up and we'll finish with maybe just a brief discussion on what we can do as parents.
Going back to this idea. This is all in preparation for the temple. This idea, if you're going to see God, it's temple, it's temple, it's temple, it's temple. And here we're saying that the body is the temple.
It's the home, the house for the spirit that dwells there. Our spirit is God.
We are gods. And we house a God within us, making our bodies temples.
And also the Holy Spirit as a God. As you've talked about this, Nate, this idea that the spirit can dwell with us, our bodies are a temple. And how do we. And maybe this is the perfect launching point to talk about this. How do we make our temples holy? And I'm not talking about let's get a chalkboard and write down a list of all the things we have to or can or can't do. But the idea that this embodies, according to here, light and truth or intelligence. Getting an education or learning things. And you can learn things. Getting an education does not just mean going to school.
Going to school has its place. Getting an education is important. But there are so many more ways to get an education. Through learning, through experience, through reading. And now in today's world, watching videos. But what kind of videos? Wholesome videos that are going to educate us, teach us about things that were past. Teach us about things that are. Teach us about things that are going to come learn. That's part of having a body that's a temple, physical, taking care of our bodies. We just talked about that with the word of wisdom. This is big important for preparing for the temple is making it clean, physically clean, spiritually, emotionally. What do we do to get along with the people and not have so much discord or fighting? How do we make it so that we have clean space?
How do we make our temple clean in some of those regards?
Having said that, I will take it to the end here at the very end of the section. God says it is important for you to be parents.
And he says, not only is it important, but he calls them out for failing as being parents. And he calls them out specifically Frederick G. Williams.
He almost says, like, you're a terrible father.
Kind of a harsh thing to say.
He says, you've got some things to work on at home. Yeah, it's great that you're engaged in the gospel and you're first counselor and you're doing all of these things. But. But how does it say, no amount of success can compensate for failure in the home, and you are failing at home.
And when he is done calling out Frederick G. Williams, he even calls out Joseph Smith. Joseph Smith, you are failing.
It is hard for us as dads to make sure that we are doing what we need to provide for our family financially, to get education, to provide for our work, but to provide for our callings, but to not forget or to make sure that we're balancing and spending enough time with our kids. But as we've been talking, Nate, I think it goes more than that.
I think this next generation, as we're standing at the precipice here, looking at the generations behind us and the generations to come, there is a gap and kind of.
I guess maybe a gap is the best way to say it as we look at and appreciate the generations before us, the discipline, the structure, the willing to give things up and sacrifice in order to reverence or gain an appreciation for something.
World War II, they call it the best generation ever. And they were willing to lay it all on the line.
And then you talk about jfk, right? Don't ask what the country can do for you, but what you can do for the country. Be engaged.
And we look at that generation in some ways very critical as we talk about disciplining, spanking. Things were very black and white. And maybe they didn't understand all of the whys. And maybe it wasn't important for them to understand the whys. They just needed to know this was it, because it is.
And now we are looking forward into this generation of information, of being able to see all sorts of things and ask questions, needing to understand the whys or the hows and trying to say, what's in it for me?
I get it. I see it. And how does this benefit me? Because if it doesn't benefit me, I'm just going to walk away. And maybe they're not putting so much on the line. There's not as much skin in the game. It's not so much how can I help? Or what do I need? To do? And what am I sacrificing or giving up to do this?
But how is the church going to benefit me? Because you have to benefit me as the consumer, or else I am not going to stick here. I am going to go choose something else. So is my soul important enough for you to save?
And there is not as much investment in that. So as we stand and look at both generations forward and backward, I mean, what are some of your thoughts, Nate? Or what are our responsibilities or how do we succeed in this space?
[00:42:21] Speaker A: It's tough because the thing is, we're also just fighting against a lot of culture, current culture, which is I can get anything I want, whenever I want, as quick as I want, right?
[00:42:33] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:42:34] Speaker A: And so much of what we see, even in art, is so much more just disposable than what it used to be because it's just continually keep stimulating me.
Like, don't. Don't make me need to invest in anything. Right?
Like, you remember, it wasn't that long ago when we're. It's like to listen to our favorite songs, we'd have to put the tape in the cassette tape and listen to the whole album, right? And even before our. Even before us, like the generation before, that's like, man, if you like the song, you got to put on the vinyl record. You know what I mean? And, like, you've got to commit, Right.
[00:43:13] Speaker B: You had to look in the TV Guide to find out when the movie was gonna be on.
[00:43:16] Speaker A: Exactly, right. And by the way, you only got. You only got one. Well, that's the thing is you only got one movie occasionally on network tv.
And that one. Yeah. You had to hurry and pop in the VHS and record it to your VHS so that you could actually, like, watch it back again. Right? And even then think about after that, where you would have to, like, go down to the. To the blockbuster to rent the movie that you wanted to see, Right?
[00:43:43] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:43:43] Speaker A: I guess I'm just saying is, like, culturally.
And I'm not going to say this as a positive or negative, because in a lot of ways, for me, it's super convenient. It's super positive. But we're conditioning ourselves and our next generation to be Veruca Salt Man.
I want it now, just with everything.
Give it to me now, as convenient as possible, right?
I don't think that that's how religion works. I don't think that that's how faith works.
And yeah, like, why on earth wouldn't the next generation go, oh, you're not going to give me, like, some sign from an angel right now. Oh, you're not going to give me some, like, huge overwhelming, like, miracle to see? Oh, you're not. You know what I mean? He's like, well, oh, wait, you're saying that I actually have to invest a lot of time and effort and exercise faith over long periods of time and maybe never even realize the fullness of that in this life. It's like, cool. That's not convenient for me.
Oh, wait, you mean that I'm going to have to question my own maybe social or political or, you know what I mean, like ideas that I'm so committed to because of all my friends or whatever I learned from watching this YouTube video or whatever that is? What, you're going to say that, like, I'm going to have to maybe realize that those don't align with God's will. Well, this is more convenient for me just to think this way then, or to behave this way then. Right.
And again, strangely, don't put a lot of blame on the kids themselves in a lot of this because that's the world that we are giving them currently.
[00:45:42] Speaker B: Well, it's the culture. It's how it's set up.
[00:45:44] Speaker A: That's right.
[00:45:45] Speaker B: I love that we're talking about this right now.
Just having talked about this idea that seeing God is not something that happens overnight.
Christ wasn't something that happened overnight. He didn't receive a fullness at first. There is a process that takes time and sacrifice and energy.
And with today's world, it is almost like they are set up to fail.
Because it is like, okay, am I going to see God? If not, cool, I am going to go find him somewhere else.
[00:46:14] Speaker A: That is exactly right.
[00:46:18] Speaker B: Okay, is it going to happen or not? Because if not, I don't have time to wait for that.
I think going back to maybe we talked about this, Adam and Eve.
What was the sin in the garden?
[00:46:33] Speaker A: Impatience.
[00:46:34] Speaker B: I think so.
I think so. God says don't eat.
And yet you get this idea that maybe he was doing this in other worlds. Maybe people were giving something to eat. But rather than wait for God to give them, when they were ready, what they needed, they took it on the cheap. Where can I get this right now? Satan says I need to do this now and I'm not willing to wait for the other.
[00:46:59] Speaker A: Yeah, and it's again, it's. It's there. I think that, you know, maybe previous generations, maybe, maybe the pendulum had swung so hard with like, here is the very, very, very rigid way in which we practice this. Right here's a very, very, very rigid way in every single little stinking detail that is not important or was never meant to be.
So rigid and almost dogmatic. Right.
Culturally, especially. Right?
And in an effort to kind of pull away from that, it is hard not to sometimes look at that and go, man, have we just swung so hard the other way to where now? With. You know. And this is me being actually a little like, get off my lawn.
But, like, just. You hear these stories of missionaries, man, like, calling home every week or FaceTiming home every week and going to movies at the movie theaters and stuff like that. And I'm kind of just going like, man, I got in trouble for having a guitar, like an acoustic guitar on my mission. You know what I mean? Just that I would noodle around on at night, right? I'm just going like, oh, man.
[00:48:14] Speaker B: What.
[00:48:14] Speaker A: Are we actually asking these dudes to do now? You know, dudes, by the way, not gender specific, but just in general.
What are we asking these young people to actually do? Right? Like, go out there. It's like. It's just hard for me because I'm like, oh, man, what kind of commitment are we asking from you? If it's just like, no, you're basically. You can still have, like, your Facebook page and you can still just call home all the time, and whenever you're just checking in and go watch some movies and, you know, just kind of casually do this. And I'm just like, man, part of my whole thing was it's just like, no, this is a commitment to unplug from the rest of the world and not call home every week and not have all of the same things that you could just have when you were at home. And then in that case, it's like, okay, well, then, I don't know, I'm just wondering if, like, are we doing this to try to appease the young people that are going out? And it's funny because, you know, people say, well, a lot of this changed because a lot of young people were having, like, anxiety and these types of things. And I'm like, yeah, of course. Because we have them glued to screens all the time.
And so, like, oh, wait, yes, of course they're having these anxiety attacks when we unplug them for any period of time.
Yeah, that's totally. That doesn't mean that we shouldn't unplug them.
I don't know. Maybe it does. I guess. I'm just saying. I'm saying this only as a personal opinion. I go having. Having taught young people at A high school for years.
Yeah. Maybe they do have anxiety not being on their phones all the time. Sweet, man. Take the phone.
Maybe we shouldn't have them addicted to a screen.
[00:49:57] Speaker B: And addictions. Addiction's a good word.
[00:50:00] Speaker A: I.
[00:50:00] Speaker B: Maybe, maybe.
Maybe we have people going through withdrawals when they get to that point. Yes. And to handle the withdrawals, maybe we. And I don't know. I don't know why we do what we do. I do know that the world is changing. It's. It's very different today than what it has.
[00:50:16] Speaker A: I know. This is totally get off my lawn stuff. Right? Let's. Look, I'm. I'm disclaiming that with. This is totally get off my lawn guy. So before anybody's just thinking like, oh, man, this dude's just like. No, you're right, I am. I'm just. I'm just. I'm kind of side eyeing this whole thing a little bit, going like, man, I got in trouble for having a guitar. Really? Like, I was just. I was just playing. I was playing. I was playing like church hymns too. Playing other stuff too, but mostly just church hymns. Okay, okay. And a couple other things occasionally. But even then, man, I'm not gonna.
[00:50:52] Speaker B: Lie, I played a little Metallica.
[00:50:53] Speaker A: See, this is what I'm trying to say, man.
And look, I do totally agree though, by the way, that for a period of time, the. The rules for Mission had swung the opposite direction of like, whoa, we've missed kind of the whole spirit of this thing. So I'm just saying, like, we've swung so hard, it feels a little like we've swung just as hard. And hopefully it's.
Hopefully, I guess it's making things better for the better. But. But hopefully at the same time, like, hopefully we're not. Hopefully we're not just catering to the idea that it's like, well, we gotta keep people here, so we just gotta, like, cater to what, like, they want this religion to be for them. Right, Right. And I'm just like, no, I mean, like, look, I am absolutely on, like, cool, dude. Let people figure out where they are on their path, right?
But like, without any sort of like, structure, it's like, I'm just hoping that we're not swinging so far now the other. The opposite direction from super rigid to now just like, cool. This is just whatever you need it to be to kind of cater to whatever you want it to be so that you'll stay in. You know what I mean? Like, I don't know. I don't know if that, like, if that's gonna lock in commitment long term either, I don't know.
[00:52:19] Speaker B: Right. And I think, I think kind of listening to it, talking this out with you, I look at this, the world is changing and I think we're adapting. And I think some of this adapting and changing has been wonderful as far as dealing with worldwide pandemic Covid being able to reach out.
[00:52:38] Speaker A: Absolutely.
[00:52:39] Speaker B: And do things in a different way, change things and make things better. But as the world changes, there are some things that will never change. And going back to the core idea of our role is to invite people to come unto Christ. Our role is to bring ourselves unto Christ. And that route to approaching him requires sacrifice, requires dedication, requires a lot of what generations before us really valued that are becoming more of a scarcity in today's world.
In the lectures on faith, it is commented that no religion will ever produce faith necessary to save its people without requiring the sacrifice of all things.
So as we look at our homes and our children and what they need and how do we be more engaged, how as parents are we more plugged in to maybe provide them with the opportunities to and the hard experiences or the working for something, the dedication, not always having that instant gratification.
I think our role needs to adapt and step up and change to counterbalance some of that evolving role that our children are filling into.
[00:54:07] Speaker A: And we shouldn't be afraid to take away their screens.
[00:54:11] Speaker B: No, you are right.
[00:54:12] Speaker A: Just like we need to be better about taking away our own screens. I am just, look, I am not getting myself out of this.
[00:54:21] Speaker B: And in a world of acceptance where we need to love and we need to be more accepting, at the same time we should have standards that we don't just accept them falling short of the standard.
We have got to have expectations. We have got to require them to.
[00:54:37] Speaker A: Rise up completely agree. Which by the way, they do, they.
[00:54:42] Speaker B: Do and they desire that. They need that we do best and we create more value for ourselves when the expectations are set high and we reach and we stretch and we accomplish that.
So let's not be afraid to challenge our kids. Let's not be afraid to, to sit them down to talk about this is the significance of baptism or this is what the priesthood means to have those real conversations. And if they're not engaged or invested or get it, maybe it's not going to benefit them so much. Maybe we need to stop, put on the brakes a little bit, tap those brakes and say, okay, what can we do to get that buy in, to have them look at it and see it not because this is what dad wants them to do or what mom wants them to do, but because this is something I'm willing to invest in or I need to put some time in developing an understanding, having them gain their testimonies.
[00:55:41] Speaker A: Totally agree. I totally agree. And instead of just letting them skate by going through the motions, instead of just the testimony always being. I like to remember my testimony. I know this church is true, and I know that my family loves me. And I just. It's like, okay, okay, cool.
I know that they've heard somebody else say that, and so they're just used to saying that over and over and over. But, like, can we sit down with them and at least challenge that?
What? Why on earth would you say that? Explain that to me. What does that mean to you?
It's like it can feel a little going through the motions, right? And it's like there are times where you're just like, oh, man. Like, man, would I want to bring an investigator to this thing and be like, cool, man. Yeah. You had 15 kids. I'll go up there and say the same kind of brainwashy thing. Yeah, that's. I don't know about that. And I'd be like, cool, for whatever it's worth. I don't know about that either. You know? Like. Like, yeah, that's a little weird to me, too.
But. But like you said, not be afraid to say, cool, maybe you're not ready.
Cool, maybe. Maybe you're not ready to go on a mission.
Maybe you're not ready. Maybe you're not ready right now to, you know, get the priesthood.
Can we. Can we talk about why, though? Can we set a goal to be ready? Can we set a goal to prepare? Can we set a goal to sit with your parents or sit with your leaders or whatever? And not. And not sometimes just, I don't know, rubber stamp the things or just kind of go through the motions or. Or check the weird boxes. Like, it's. It's kind of the notorious example, right? But it's like, man, when my grandpa was like a Boy Scout when he was younger, it was like a lifestyle.
Like, I mean, it was something he took pride in, right? Like, this is like, you go do this.
Because this is my commitment as a Boy Scout, right? And it was such a real tangible thing to him, right?
And by the time it got to me, for the most part, it was like your mom signing off some stuff so that you could kind of get enough merit badges and figure out some random project to do so that you could get a thing because they told you that it's going to help get you a job over somebody else someday. Which, by the way, has never happened.
Right?
Not anymore.
And what I'm just saying is, like, it became so casual that. Look at what happened to it. Eventually, yes, it doesn't even mean anything anymore.
[00:58:18] Speaker B: And that's why I think it's so critical as we're talking about this in the context of this section, I think, and I don't want to come off sounding too sexist here, but I think in general, mothers are very nurturing, they're very loving, and that's a role that they play. And they love their kids and they accept them. I think the fathers tend to be. And I'm not going to say every case, and I'm not going to say just absolutely. I am just going to say the role that fathers play tend to be a little bit more structural, providing support.
[00:58:52] Speaker A: Or.
[00:58:54] Speaker B: Helping them appreciate that.
I think it changes going back to this section where the Lord is calling out specific fathers for not doing enough in the home.
I think the role fits on a lot of dads today to be more engaged and work with their spouses and help them where their natural instinct is to love and accept just whatever comes out and say, okay, that's great.
Maybe ask the tough questions. What were you hoping for? What are you trying to do? What do you want to do? How do we get you to where you want to be and maybe deliver some of the tough answers?
Right now, that's just not good enough. What are you going to do to take it to the next level? Or how do we.
I don't know. Maybe we've gone off.
I don't know. Maybe I've said too much already.
[00:59:50] Speaker A: I don't think so. I don't think so. I think kind of to finish, like an earlier thought, too, it's that you have a lot of. It feels like sometimes going through the motions up to, you know, through childhood and through the teenage years, even, sometimes young adults, even, you know, even getting. Even adults sometimes getting married in the temple, A lot of it still just feels like, oh, this is what I've always said and believed. And so that's what I always said, believe.
And then they turn 40 years old or they turn 35, and for the first time in their life go, wait a minute, what are those two or three or four actual anchors of my faith?
Oh, I don't know if I've ever even had any, because I've always just kind of gone with it, right oh, I've always just kind of, man, now I'm seeing this for the first time in my life going, man, maybe I was always just saying that stuff because I heard everybody else saying it. Oh, maybe I just said this stuff because, I don't know, like, I thought it would make parents happy or, oh, maybe I even did believe it, but had never really needed to have those anchor moments. Right.
And then they become adults and at, like, the first real, like, actual faith crisis check out because it was always just casual and the motions. Right.
And I'm trying to, with young kids now, definitely learn how to like, navigate the idea of, like, I do want you to trust me now because, yes, like, you haven't had enough life experience to really fully understand what it is that we're kind of doing here and committing to. Right. So, like, yes, I do want you to now at least rely on the fact that, like, I'm doing the best I can with what I've got. And I'm trying to bring you along with me for now because that's my responsibility. And I want to give you a chance to, not, at 9 years old, have to feel like you need to figure all of this out on your own. Right. I'm trying to balance that with, but yet I'm trying to at least now start having those conversations going.
You will come to a time where you don't get to rely on what I believe in.
Right. And it's gonna be coming sooner than later. And whenever I would teach young adult classes, I would try to finish every lesson with. And just so you know, you're going to have to learn how to figure this out sooner than later.
Not just this, but, like, how to receive truth, how to receive answers, how to decipher right from wrong. Because you can't rely on your parents forever. You can't rely on me forever.
The sooner you learn how to just on your own decipher truth, then when you do get to that inevitable pivotal moment where you have to really decide, like, have I always just kind of gone through the motions or do I actually believe this? Right. Hopefully you've been making anchor moments in your faith. Right.
So that when you do get to that thing, you can fall back and rely on those one or two or three just profound experiences to help kind of anchor you through some of that stuff that I just don't think you can get by going up every week and saying, I'd like to bear my testimony. I know this church is true and I know my family loves me. It's like, that sounds nice, but I don't know, is that going to keep you in at 35 when you. When you actually do have your first real trip through church history.
[01:03:39] Speaker B: Or at.
[01:03:40] Speaker A: 25 when you're like, cool, like, I have the Internet. Oh, let me read about the early days of this church and some of the people.
[01:03:46] Speaker B: Whoa.
[01:03:49] Speaker A: Without any context, you know, like.
[01:03:51] Speaker B: Yeah. Whoa.
[01:03:53] Speaker A: Like, even with context, some of that stuff can be pretty abrasive.
[01:03:58] Speaker B: Yep.
[01:04:00] Speaker A: Do you have those. Do you have those pivotal moments? You know, as a parent, What I'm trying to do is my best to go, hey, child of mine, I deeply, deeply believe this. There are a few things that I would say that, as far as a person can know, that I would know. I'm going to be very careful, though, not to use that word when I mean it. The rest of this stuff, a lot of my beliefs are based off of those few things that I would say that I know.
And you're going to have to learn how to decipher truth on your own.
And I'm going to have to put the trust in you that you might not even end up at the same place where I am at on some of these things.
I trust you, child.
I'm going to do my best to teach and instill in you the ways that I've learned how to decipher truth, knowing that that might mean that you might not end up believing the same things I do.
That's the risk that you take with that. Right.
But what you said, I think is so profound. And that is. But by giving them those expectations and those lofty responsibilities, they'll rise to it.
They will, man.
[01:05:19] Speaker B: Yes.
We've got to give them that opportunity. And learning.
I've often thought of learning, kind of like a spacewalk, where you're going out there and there's so much in any direction, it's very easy to get lost. No astronaut in their right mind would ever walk out on a spacewalk without being anchored.
You just can't. And what anchors you, as you said, these points. Right. What is it that's going to anchor them as they go in there and they see all this content? And everybody has a voice, everybody has an opinion, and there's all sorts of information out there.
What can hold them, what is solid enough to anchor them?
And an anchor is not going to come flimsy from nothing. It's any anchor worth its weight, requires the sacrifice, requires the work, requires the dedication that I feel. Our responsibility is to help develop that in a world where everything else comes Cheap.
And if I were to say maybe one last comment on it.
In our responsibility to help this generation come closer to Christ.
If you've ever gone, you said it really well. When you say sometimes the idea of coming into the presence of God is intimidating.
If you're with the next generation and they're intimidated by being in the presence of God and you're intimidated and you're trying to push them to God, saying you go first, they're going to push back and say, no, you go first. Like I'm not, you know, Right.
[01:06:58] Speaker A: No, you're making a great point and I'm feeling bad and I'm feeling guilty already.
I know you're not, but I am. It's not. You keep going.
[01:07:06] Speaker B: The idea that the best way to be a shepherd, the best way to help these next generation to come to Christ is by approaching him first, ourselves, and feeling that comfortableness, feeling that warmth, feeling that spirit and bringing them with us to the presence of God rather than pushing them into unfamiliar territory. And I'm not saying that to target anyone. I'm just saying that just general, I don't know.
As the Lord is counseling these fathers at the end of this section and preparing them to seeing the face of God, be engaged with your kids and find a way that is going to work to help them getting back to God. Ever since Adam and Eve is the single most important thing about this whole earth, we lost his presence. And ever since then, for thousands of years, we have been trying to get back.
And that's to me, that's what it's all about.
[01:08:05] Speaker A: Awesome.
What are we talking about next week?
[01:08:09] Speaker B: Next week?
To be honest, I haven't even looked 90 something or another.
[01:08:14] Speaker A: Well, it's 90 something or other.
Okay, well then on that, I guess we'll see you all next week.
[01:08:23] Speaker B: See ya.
[01:08:26] Speaker A: Sa.
