D&C 81 - 83 (2020 repost)

[00:00:00] Speaker A: Foreign. Welcome to the weekly Deep Dive podcast on the Add On Education Network. The podcast where we explore the weekly Come follow me discussion and try to add a little insight and unique perspective. I am your host, Jason Lloyd, here in the studio with my friend and this show's producer, Nate. Watch out for sharks, Piper. [00:00:33] Speaker B: It's unique. [00:00:34] Speaker A: It's great. It's unique. [00:00:36] Speaker B: If nothing else, it's unique. [00:00:38] Speaker A: No, I think there's a. I know my mom was. Was deathly afraid of sharks for a long time as well. Wouldn't go in swimming pools. And I think Jaws did that to a lot of people. [00:00:47] Speaker B: Do you know what I did last night? [00:00:48] Speaker A: What's that? [00:00:49] Speaker B: I stayed up to, like, two in the morning looking up pictures of prehistoric sea monsters. [00:00:56] Speaker A: Megalodon, of course. [00:00:58] Speaker B: Megalodon. Did you know, though, that the blue whale is bigger than anything that has ever lived on this planet? [00:01:04] Speaker A: I did not. [00:01:05] Speaker B: I learned that last night. [00:01:07] Speaker A: Well, thank you. [00:01:08] Speaker B: And like most. I learned that most land animals, including humans, are all smaller than the tongue of a blue whale. Like elephants and everything included. [00:01:23] Speaker A: Wow. [00:01:24] Speaker B: Is that not bonkers? [00:01:25] Speaker A: They're massive. [00:01:27] Speaker B: They're so huge, it's terrifying. Like, whales don't even care about us. [00:01:34] Speaker A: There was a guy earlier this year that got swallowed by a whale, too. On accident. [00:01:38] Speaker B: Don't lie. [00:01:40] Speaker A: I don't think he got swallowed. He got put in the mouth. He was sitting, swimming, and all of a sudden a whale came up underneath him, trying to eat the krill or whatnot. And then it just went dark. And then he realized he was in the whale's mouth. He's like, oh, shoot. What did he do? The whale spit him out. I don't remember how long he was there for. Look it up. It was in the news. It was. [00:02:01] Speaker B: All right, I'll look it up. [00:02:02] Speaker A: About a month ago, crazy story, you know? Reminded me of Jonah. [00:02:06] Speaker B: I know, but it's funny because I actually love that. I love the story of Jonah and the whale, even If I'm not 100% convinced that I should take it literally. I'm not. I'm just. I'm not saying it is or isn't. Just saying I'm not convinced that I have to 100% take it literally. But what you just told me adds at least a little bit more information to the story. [00:02:27] Speaker A: Yeah, taking it literal is going to be kind of hard with all the stomach acid and whatnot living down there. I don't know. But it's. There's a lot of symbolism there, whether it's literal or not. So I cannot wait for Old Testament next year. [00:02:40] Speaker B: Oh, yeah, Old Testament's going to be great. [00:02:42] Speaker A: Well, before we get into Old Testament, we're diving into Doctrine and Covenants, sections 81, 83. In this episode, and I know last, last episode, I told you I was done with Doctrine and covenants. Section 76, rearview mirror. We are going to leave it behind. But I could not help but go there one more time. When we went through the verse about they shall be gods, the sons of God, and I quoted from the Testament of Adam, and I had the version from the Book of the Cave of Treasures, I knew I had a better version somewhere. So that was kind of bothering me. After that episode, I went home and I was searching and trying to find where that was, and I remembered it's in my Old Testament Pseudepigrapha, Volume one book, which I unfortunately lent out to a friend of mine a few years back, and he moved to Canada. And when I asked for the book back, he lost it. So from the time of the last episode, I jumped on Amazon. The book was out of print, but I was able to find it, order it, and now I have the version of the Testament of Adam here. I just wanted to give you a little context to it and just hit that. Read it from here before moving into this discussion. [00:04:01] Speaker B: Let's hear it. [00:04:02] Speaker A: Okay, so the oldest manuscript, they believe that the original came from Palestine or Syria, somewhere in that area. The oldest manuscript is 930, somewhere in that area AD and you might think that's kind of late, but think about this. The oldest complete manuscript of the Bible until they discovered the Dead Sea Scrolls was the Aleppo and the Leningrad Codex, dating 930 A.D. and 1008 A.D. so even the Bible is not particularly that old, with the exception of the Dead Sea Scrolls. And when scholars try to date this document, they give it a date where it says it has to have had happened after 100 AD because of the things that it references about Christ's life that are unique to the New Testament. So they say it could not have been written earlier than 100 A.D. although some of the traditions and some of it looks like it could have been from a Hebrew tradition dating back even further. But they also found some documents that quote this book in 300 AD so they know it is between 100 AD and 300 AD AD that this document was circulating. So early Christianity, before the Council of Nicaea, you have this document that was going around in Christianity, and in it. I'm just going to read this is again, Adam speaking to his Son Seth. We talked about how he's gathering his posterity before he dies. And I'll just read it straight out of the document here it says, he spoke to me about this in paradise after I picked some of the fruit in which death was hiding. Adam. Adam, do not fear. You wanted to be a God. I will make you a God. Not right now, but after a space of many years. I am consigning you to death, and the maggot and the worm will eat your body. And I answered and said to him, why, my Lord? And he said to me, because you listen to the word of the serpent, you and your posterity will be food for the serpent. But after a short time, there will be mercy on you, because you were created in my image. And I will not leave you to waste away in the spirit world. In Sheol, for your sake, I will be born of the Virgin Mary. For your sake, I will taste of death and enter the house of the dead. For your sake, I will make a new heaven, and I will be established over your posterity. And so he tells Adam, you and your posterity are destined to be gods. [00:06:40] Speaker B: It's crazy. [00:06:42] Speaker A: Yeah, it's kind of cool to see something like that survive from early Christianity. And it makes it seem not so crazy that Joseph Smith is restoring these truths in Doctrine Covenants today. [00:06:55] Speaker B: It's awesome. [00:06:56] Speaker A: All right, let's dive into today. First off, let's talk about doctrine covenants, section 81. This is interesting because the original revelation was not about Frederick G. Williams. He didn't exist at all in this document. Instead, it was about a guy named Jesse. Let's see. Goss. And nobody knew anything really about Jesse Goss. And I've got from my grandparents, they. When my grandma passed away, I inherited a bunch of books from their library. And in there, my grandpa had a book, Doctrine and Covenants Commentary by Shodal. Sorry if that's not how you say his name. Shodal, I believe. And in the commentary, see Doctrine and Covenants, Section 81, it says that Frederick Williams is being called to be in the First Presidency. So this is the first time the First Presidency exists in LDS history, in modern LDS history. And there is a second revelation a year later when Williams is actually called to the. To the First Presidency. So Shodal wasn't exactly sure how to handle this revelation, mentioning his calling to the First Presidency when he's actually called to the First Presidency a year later. So in here, he states, this is probably the Lord preparing him for his future calling, but in all actuality, so this was published in 1978 or 1979. It wasn't until the 1980s the church discovered that this was actually about Jesse Goss. Jesse Goss was the original person that was called to be probably the first counselor in the first presidency of the church. Joseph Smith was looking at building a Zion community. Jesse Goss was a member of the Shakers and the Quakers. He had a lot of experience with these communities, these utopias, if you will. And so Joseph was leaning on his expertise to help him put together this Zion. And he sent Jesse on a mission. And he was a new convert. He hadn't been a member of the church for very long. He went on a mission, and I'm getting the Shakers and the Quakers confused. I'm not sure which one it was. I want to say it was the Shaker at this time and the mission. Kind of like who we discovered you talked about earlier this year in another episode. When he went there, he kind of decided to part ways with his companion, and that was the end of it. He left his church and no one really heard anything else of him anymore. And so the Revelation, they took it and they changed his name from Jesse Goss to now refer to Frederick Williams. And the revelation applied to Frederick Williams, who was called to the First Presidency a year later after Gost disappeared. It's kind of a weird thing, and you see parallels to it in ancient history when a pharaoh would take over in Egypt and they didn't like somebody or another pharaoh that was before them, they would scratch out their names in all of the monuments, the graffiti, and try to destroy them from the records, to erase them from history. And that's essentially what's happening to Jesse here, is his name is getting erased from the record and pulled out, and he is disappearing from LDS history. And it was extremely successful as nobody knew who he was or even that this revelation was about him until the 1980s, when we kind of rediscover that, and he finds his place back in early LDS history. So kind of weird, kind of interesting. [00:10:49] Speaker B: And also a great band name. Jesse and the Shakers and the Quakers. The Shakers and the Quakers. Dude, I can't get off that. I haven't heard a thing you've said for the last three and a half minutes because I can't get past that. The Shakers and the Quakers. Dude, it's going to be my next album. All dance music. Boots and Cats. [00:11:15] Speaker A: I can't wait to hear it. [00:11:17] Speaker B: Oh, it's gonna be dope. [00:11:18] Speaker A: Boots and Cats, Shakers and the Quakers. [00:11:20] Speaker B: Our first song is gonna be called Williams. What's the dude's name? [00:11:24] Speaker A: Jesse Goss. But if. [00:11:25] Speaker B: No, no, no. Frederick G, dude. Frederick G. Frederick G. And the Shakers. [00:11:31] Speaker A: But Frederick G. Wasn't the Shaker, Jesse. [00:11:34] Speaker B: Whatever. I'm just trying to think of what rolls off the tongue better. [00:11:37] Speaker A: Oh, boy. [00:11:37] Speaker B: All right, let's keep going. [00:11:39] Speaker A: Okay. And, you know, maybe we're flogging a dead horse at this point, but I can't help but think that this is an example of a talent being taken away and given to someone else. [00:11:49] Speaker B: Totally sounds like it to me. [00:11:50] Speaker A: Because here you have this revelation and this blessing from the Lord that if you're faithful, this is. And then all of a sudden, that calling, that responsibility is taken from Jesse and literally assigned to someone else. Frederick. [00:12:04] Speaker B: I'm into it. Let's keep going. I like it. That doesn't bother. That. That totally works. [00:12:10] Speaker A: Okay. [00:12:11] Speaker B: The Shakers and the Quakers. [00:12:12] Speaker A: Shakers and the Quakers. [00:12:13] Speaker B: Keep your eye out. [00:12:14] Speaker A: That's about. That's about all I had for 81. And. And I'll keep my eye out for. [00:12:21] Speaker B: Man. I'm going to start working on that right now. Like, literally right now. Keep going with the podcast. I'm going to start working up some beats. [00:12:27] Speaker A: Oh, dear. All right. 84. 84. 82, verse one. Verily, verily, I say unto you, my servants, that in as much as you have forgiven one another your trespasses, even so, I, the Lord, forgive you. I think that's a critical key to understanding how forgiveness works. When you're willing to forgive someone else, it makes it easy for the Lord to look down and forgive you. If you're going to hold something against somebody and have a hard time forgiving them, then how can you expect the Lord to give you forgiveness in return? [00:13:02] Speaker B: It's like that parable, dude. [00:13:04] Speaker A: It's exactly like the parable. [00:13:06] Speaker B: See, I know some things from the New Testament. [00:13:09] Speaker A: You know a lot of things from the New Testament. [00:13:11] Speaker B: I know some things. [00:13:12] Speaker A: We started this a year late. We should have done New Testament last year. [00:13:15] Speaker B: I love the New Testament. It's like, for as much as you love the Old Testament, I just eat up everything in the New Testament. [00:13:24] Speaker A: It's short, concise, but powerful. [00:13:26] Speaker B: I think I try to read Jesus the Christ at least once every couple years just to refresh how intensely incredible the New Testament is, especially the Gospels. But that's the parable, though. I know it. I know it's a parable definitely. [00:13:42] Speaker A: Right? The servant that had a huge debt and everything was forgiven, but in turn, he wouldn't forgive a very minor debt. And so his debt was recalled. [00:13:50] Speaker B: And correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't the master or the king, that let the servant off easy, even though he owed him a ton of money? That happened before. That happened before. He then went to not forgive somebody else. Like, he had an example of mercy and kindness and charity and grace and all those things. And even after that was like, no, you're going to pay me the little bit that you owe me, right? [00:14:18] Speaker A: Yes, you're right. And I think it's significant that he had forgiven him first. [00:14:24] Speaker B: Exactly. [00:14:26] Speaker A: And when he goes back to him having not forgiven the other, even though he was forgiven previously, the debt is recalled. And the Lord makes that point here a little bit later when he says, I forgive you. Go your way and sin no more. But then he says, if you do sin, then the previous things are going to come back and I will hold those against you, even though I had once forgiven them. This idea that, yeah, you are forgiven, but if you go back, somehow it's not completely gone, it'll show up again. [00:15:01] Speaker B: Well, I think that. That I tried to have this explained to me one time because I remember reading about this and correct me again if I'm wrong. [00:15:09] Speaker A: Probably not. [00:15:10] Speaker B: But I think the idea is if you repent of something, truly you don't do it again. Right. If you truly have your heart changed to where you're no longer committing that sin, that's the final step of showing that, like, oh, yeah, I've repented of this. I've changed my ways. I am no longer burdened by this sin. But if we go and ask forgiveness for something and then we just keep doing it over and over and over, we never really repented in the first place. Does that make sense? [00:15:44] Speaker A: Yes. [00:15:45] Speaker B: Or is that wrong? [00:15:46] Speaker A: I think you're. I think you're right. And maybe it's hard to apply it in a blanket statement because I think some people truly do repent and turn away and they don't have a desire to do that. And it's all forgiven, Right. For all intents and purposes, it is done, wiped clean, whatever. And as time goes on, if they turn back to it. [00:16:15] Speaker B: Because the thing is, I think that I'm not. I'm not even trying to. I'm not actually trying to make even that big of a blanket of a statement as it might sound like I am. I guess what I'm saying is I. I try to ask forgiveness for just being a knucklehead with 100% like, the understanding, though, that, like, Jesus, you know, I'm going to continue to be a knucklehead. God, you know, I'm going to continue to be a knucklehead. Give me the strength to keep trying to overcome the demons, you know, and hoping that at the end of my life, if nothing else, I can at least show a track record of slight improvement over time. Right. [00:16:55] Speaker A: And never giving up. [00:16:57] Speaker B: That's what I'm saying. [00:16:57] Speaker A: Like the race. Right. The boy that keeps falling in the race and each time he gets up and keeps running. [00:17:04] Speaker B: Yeah. And I think that. What I'm saying is that I think there's a difference between that, which hopefully we're all trying to do. Right. Knowing, like, acknowledging, like, oh, yeah, we're gonna totally keep blowing it all the time. And there's a difference between that. And I went and punched a stranger in the face and then prayed and was like, okay, I feel really bad about that. You know, I'm sorry. I've gone and I've talked to him and I've tried to make amends and the whole thing. And then being like, man, I feel that's cool. I feel forgiven for this. And then punching somebody in the face again, it was just like, oh, clearly. Clearly you hadn't quite fixed that the first time. Let's try again. But, yeah, that hasn't been taken care of yet. I don't know. Does that make any sense? [00:17:48] Speaker A: It does make sense. [00:17:51] Speaker B: But I don't even know if there's a difference between those. I'm just thinking out loud here. [00:17:55] Speaker A: Yeah. And I'm trying to think through this as well as we're talking about this. I think there's a possibility where you have someone that hits and quickly apologizes and says sorry and whatever to make it right, but isn't willing to address that. This is a problem that they can continually do it and say sorry and whatever and not willing to change that behavior or even work on that behavior in that sense. I don't think it's truly repenting. But then you might have someone with anger issues who. Their anger gets the better of them and they hate how they react or they hate how they feel in that situation and they feel really terrible and they're trying to avoid getting angry, avoid getting upset or maybe working on, okay, I'm going to count to 10 or I'm going to try to do this, and they're. They really do make it right as best they can. Then in that sense, I feel like the repentance process is complete. They've made it right. Because they're honestly trying to put this behind them. And then when they hit somebody in the face, even though the repentance process was complete, it's almost like it got erased and say, oh, well, there's still something here. Let's keep working on this to get this all the way resolved. So, yes, I think it almost oscillates between, yes, it is repentance, or yeah, it's not quite fixed. Let's keep going. I don't know. [00:19:15] Speaker B: I think that you said it, though. You said it's the process of it. Right. So my thought in this, at least how I kind of visually see this and how I. How I see it, at least to the point where I don't just feel hopeless and give up. You know what I mean, on a daily basis, is that even the word process is used with repentance process. Right. And I know that we've always kind of thrown, like, all of the steps along the way, but one of isn't. I mean, there are steps in there that are like, yeah, you need to learn how to not do it again. Right. Or I don't know. I don't. I don't remember if that's part of it. But I guess my thought is like, to your anger issue example, because heaven knows I have kind of a short fuse, especially when behind the wheel and various other things. That the idea is, is that as I am going along asking for forgiveness from the people that I have offended, I'm not looking at that as the end of the process of repenting for that. Right. I'm looking at that as a point along the way. And maybe that's just me trying to be as honest with myself as possible, which is just like, I'm hoping that before I die I can truly say, well, cool, I'm so happy that I finally, with the help of whatever it takes, overcome that heaven and whatever on this earth, you know, I can do to kind of make myself better about that. Right. So I think that that's. I think that that's at least how I try to, because I've read through this stuff before and learned about it a lot. And it actually can be very discouraging to be. To be reading this and to say, cool, I've forgiven you for your sins, but then if you do it again, like, all of the previous stuff is piled back in your backpack again. Right? [00:21:09] Speaker A: Yes. [00:21:09] Speaker B: I'm just saying that can be so incredibly, like, disheartening and devastating to somebody that is trying to overcome a bad Habit, a bad behavior, some. Some harder than others. Right. And for me, I guess I try to look at it from the point of view or from the. From the position or idea that we all know what our demons are. And the process of that might take a little bit longer, but now I'm not as. Like, now I don't feel as burdened to go, well, yeah, now all of your past sins are still with you. I'm just like, I know. Yeah, for sure. And that's because I'm just trying to become better and better and better at it. Hoping that at some point, at the end of that actual process, it's a really easy thing to go. Yeah. Heavenly Father, please forgive me for the years of being a knucklehead. Thanks for all the help overcoming that. I don't have the desire anymore to do that. Like, it's not reactionary anymore. It's not part of who I am anymore. [00:22:17] Speaker A: I see. Thank you for saying that. And I see where you're talking in verse seven, I think is where the Lord says, He says, I will not lay any sin to your charge. Go your way and sin no more. And we are familiar with that line from the Lord over and over again in the New Testament, as we were talking about New Testament just a minute ago, the woman that they caught in the act of adultery. And the Lord says, neither do I condemn you. Go your way and sin no more. We hear that phrase so often. And he follows it up this time with the soul that sinneth shall the former sins return. And this idea of this overwhelming stack that you thought you got rid of just coming and weighing you down, absolutely can be. [00:23:02] Speaker B: Sometimes it can be like actual soul crushing, disheartening. Right? Yes. I mean, if you take that quite literally, that can just be like, oh, then I don't stand a chance. You know, I mean, because I don't like if that's. I'm saying it's like if it's. But. But again, if you look at it on a. A like commandment by commandment basis, it's a way easier thing to swallow. Right? [00:23:25] Speaker A: Yes. [00:23:26] Speaker B: I've had friends that have told me some very personal things about absolutely making a mistake and absolutely having specifically adultery issues with, you know what I mean, with their spouse and, and whatever, and have had their spouse forgive them and, and accept that as a mistake. And then the person that committed the sin, truly walking away from that and being so devastated by that entire process that he is a completely changed person from that. Right. And that he can walk away from that sin and sin no more. But if he were to go, well, that was kind of an easy way out. I'm going to go do it again. It's hard for me not to then go, oh, yeah, well, then clearly you didn't learn from it the first time. You know, it's like that's how at least. I'm just trying to see how both of those things can work without just destroying you. [00:24:26] Speaker A: And it's kind of a loop, right? Because. Yeah, the soul that sinneth, the former sins return. And I like the way you say it. Maybe not so much the former sins return as much as you still have a problem. You haven't worked through all the way. [00:24:40] Speaker B: You are part of the. You are still in the process. [00:24:42] Speaker A: Yeah, you are still in the process. But as soon as you repent, you go right back to the beginning. I will not lay any sins to your charge. Go your way and sin no more. Oh, you did? Okay, well, you still have this issue. Work on it. Keep working on it. Chipping away. And every time you do, I will not lay any sins on your charge anymore. [00:25:01] Speaker B: That's exactly right. [00:25:02] Speaker A: I love how you state that. And I feel like there are two conditions, right? One is that you are willing to repent and change as long as you are willing to repent and change. The Lord is showing a willingness to work with us and put that behind and pretend like it never even happened. But also, and this is the point that he's driving is you cannot be holding things against other people. If you expect me to not be holding things against you, forgive me. Know that everyone else is in the same process that you are. And I love how he says it in the New Testament so many times. The measurement with or the judgment that you judge others is the same kind of judgment that you should expect to receive. And if you want God to sit there and hold everything against you, then go right ahead, look at everybody else and start doing that, and it's not going to be a pleasant day for you. [00:25:58] Speaker B: I was watching this TV show and one of the characters is in, you know, AA or whatever. And it's funny because he said. He said something to the effect of, you know, when it's your first time there, it's a pretty harrowing experience because you go in thinking, I can't possibly. I can't possibly be as bad as everybody else here, right? And then he's like. And then they. And then. But it's. If it's your first time, you have to. You have to do the spiel. Right. You have to like, let it go. And then they basically said by, by the time you're done, by the time you're done being honest and open about that stuff, you're like, I'm worse than everybody. It's like. It is, it is, it is an interesting, it is an interesting thing whenever you go into, you know what I mean, casting the beam when you've got the moat, you know? I don't know. [00:26:55] Speaker A: Yeah. When you have that moat in your eye or the beam in your own eye and you're looking at all the, the. Exactly. [00:27:01] Speaker B: Anyways, I thought that was funny and kind of apropos to the idea that it's like, yeah, you should probably be. But here's the, here's the interesting thing about it, is that it honestly gives you a pretty awesome way out of getting judged too harshly in the next life. Right. Hey, be cool to everybody. Hey, maybe, maybe be that person that's actually really compassionate and understanding and forgiving and all those things. It looks like that's pretty much the blueprint, you know what I mean, on how to, on how to have it not so hard in the next life when it's your turn to kind of get the, you know, the sins looked at. [00:27:38] Speaker A: Right. And if you want a shortcut to compassion, just take a hard look at yourself. Yeah. And start wondering, do I want people to know this about me? [00:27:47] Speaker B: That's exactly right. [00:27:48] Speaker A: Do I want people to see me like this? Do I want people to think of me like this? Do I want all of these things held out? And you're like, ugh, it makes it a little bit easier for you to look at somebody else with eyes of compassion. If it was me, I wouldn't want anyone to know that I'm going to put that away or use a little discretion around that. [00:28:10] Speaker B: Well, even when people, when you're trying to explain, like, hey, I know that I was wrong in this situation, can I explain to you why I was wrong? If you consider, like, cool, maybe somebody wronged you, it's hard to just imagine that most people are just jerks to be jerks. Right. It's just hard to imagine that. I just don't believe that, to be totally honest with you. You know what I mean? Obviously there's like the smallest fringe of people that are just psychopaths. But, but your day to day person you meet, you never know, right? You never know if that, if that policeman being a jerk to you had to scrape some kid off the freeway that morning and is having the worst day of his Life, you know what I mean? Like, you just, you. It's like no matter what it is, if you just consider when you've been mean to somebody or you've been ornery to somebody, but you probably had just a valid excuse too. I don't know, man. It's just. It makes it a lot. I don't know, makes it a lot easier, I guess, for me at least to try to chill out a little bit on other people. [00:29:15] Speaker A: Try, yes. And especially when we screw up, like when we don't have a good excuse and we just plain shouldn't have done that. And you're like, oh, shoot, some of those are the worst ones where you wish that. Like, I'm sorry, I wish there was a do over. You know the feeling you have when you just wish you could wake up and it was a dream. [00:29:35] Speaker B: I feel like that for. I wish. Whatever, man. I wish I could have 20 years of my life back to not blow it. But. Yeah, well. [00:29:44] Speaker A: And the Lord, I think, is making this point and he's going to balance this really well in this section because at first he leads with, as you forgive others, I will forgive you. If you're willing to look past other people and see them for who they are and not hold it, I will do the same thing for you. And it almost seems like this blanket pass that you can do whatever you want as long as you let everyone else do whatever you want. And so he's got to kind of bring that in check and say, whoa. At the same time, I've got to balance this with the idea that go your way, sin no more, but if you do, you still have an issue that needs to be worked on. I'm not going to just let that go. There's still, even though I'm going to look past it when you forgive other people. And it's kind of funny the way he calls this back to their attention. And maybe it's not funny, but I still laughed at it. I thought it was kind of funny because he says he follows it up with, nevertheless, there are those among you who have sinned exceedingly. Yea, all of you have sinned. But verily, yeah, everyone screws up. But there are still some of you who have sinned a lot. [00:30:50] Speaker B: Yeah, that's pretty much where I'm pretty sure I fit in. But yeah, let's keep going. [00:30:55] Speaker A: Beware from. Henceforth refrain from sin lest sore judgments fall upon your head. I think that's an important point. He does say that he will forgive us. He does say that he will turn away and know that we are working at being better and he is willing to work with us. And just because he won't hold any sin against us, just because there is no charge doesn't mean that sore judgments aren't going to fall on us because of what we do. And he's trying to tell us, I'm not going to hold it against you, but that doesn't mean something bad's not going to happen as a natural consequence of the things that you're doing. You, you might have a free pass in the end, but that doesn't mean that you're going to be avoiding these consequences in the meantime. [00:31:42] Speaker B: Heaven knows that's true. [00:31:44] Speaker A: All right, all right, let's, let's move into verse three. For, for of him who much is given, much is required. That's a phrase I, I believe we've, we've heard many different ways. I think Marvel made that pretty powerful with the Spider Man. This idea that much responsibility comes with knowing more, understanding more, or having more power in a sense. And so for unto him much is given and much is required. He who sins against the greater light shall receive the greater condemnation. And I can't read that without thinking of the Nephites and contrasting that with the Lamanites. This idea that one group can get away with murder where the other group apostatize a little bit here and it's the end. Your nation is wiped off the face of the planet. This idea that if you know more, you're held to a higher standard. This makes it sound like ignorance is bliss. [00:32:46] Speaker B: You cannot be saved in ignorance, dude. [00:32:48] Speaker A: But you cannot be saved in ignorance. I'm so glad you said that name. [00:32:53] Speaker B: You know, you know. I know. [00:32:55] Speaker A: So I've got two quotes from Joseph Smith. He says, first, add to your faith knowledge. And the principle of knowledge is the principle of salvation. This principle can be comprehended by the faithful and diligent, and everyone that does not obtain knowledge sufficient to be saved will be condemned. And he says, a man is saved no faster than he gains knowledge. For if he does not get knowledge, he will be brought into captivity by some evil power in the other world, as evil spirits will have more knowledge and consequently more power than many men who are on the earth. So yes, we are held to a higher standard, but that is a good thing. And we cannot just say, well, I would rather not know because I do not want to be held to that. Well, if you do not want to be held to that, that is like the guy that buried the talents and I am sorry to go back to. [00:33:47] Speaker B: That again, but, dude, it's an important parable, man. [00:33:50] Speaker A: It is. Yeah. The guy didn't want extra responsibility. He didn't want extra talents, so he said, no, please, I'm going to hide these well. The Lord's going to take it away and give it to somebody else. The key to salvation is push forward. Yeah, you get more responsibility, but that's. How else are you supposed to be a God if you can't even be responsible over the little things? [00:34:12] Speaker B: And let's not pretend that that can't have really amazing blessings in this life as well. And I know we probably also, like, beat this to death, too, I'm sure, over the various podcasts, but when you. Man, all of the commandments that we follow, every single one of them is directly tied to maintaining your agency, whether it be from addiction, whether it be from the law. You know, I mean, like, yeah, yeah, we do follow a lot of rules, and all of them are there to go. If you follow these, if you on your own free will, follow these guidelines, these rules, you can continue to maintain your agency and not become captive to anything. [00:35:04] Speaker A: It's to liberate the captives. [00:35:06] Speaker B: It's. And that's why it's. I think that. I think that it's such an incredible thing to gain knowledge and understanding in this life so that you can better make decisions on how to continue to be free in the next life, obviously, and in this life. [00:35:25] Speaker A: Yeah, that's a great statement. [00:35:27] Speaker B: It's a blessing. I'm just saying it's a blessing. It's. It's not. It's. It's an amazing thing for somebody like me who. I have no doubt that I am an alcoholic that has never drank. I just. I know myself. I know I'd like it too much. You know what I mean? I know myself enough to know that that had I not been taught and grown up with certain guidelines, I could be in a very, very, very different place. Maybe not maybe ignorantly sinning, right, to where maybe I'm not responsible for the. For the testimony that I have or the knowledge of God that I have, but in such a more miserable place in life. Right. And again, that's. That's not for everybody, but I just know me well enough to know that it's been such an incredible blessing to be responsible for some. Some, even if it's a small, feeble testimony, something like, I'm okay being responsible. I'm okay being held responsible for that. [00:36:32] Speaker A: And that's how everything started from the Beginning the get go, right? This idea of agency, freedom, can they choose for themselves or are they going to ruin themselves by doing that? Let me make the choice for them. That's how it all started. [00:36:47] Speaker B: That's right. [00:36:50] Speaker A: I love that you brought that up because Verse nine, as the Lord has been talking about these things he says, or in other words, I give unto you directions how you may act before me, that it may turn to you for your salvation. And as we're talking about the sins and trying to liberate them, as we trying to work this out, as we try to figure out how to be better, to be our best selves, to not be weighed down, or to be free even if we make mistakes and we can't escape the consequences, the Lord saying, if you listen to me, I will turn those to your salvation. We might not be able to escape the consequences, but some of those bad consequences are still going to be turned in such a way that it will save us or make us better because of it. And I can't help but think of the story of Adam and Eve in the garden, the partaking of the fruit. I can't. For me, I have a hard time thinking that God's whole plan hinged on somebody screwing up in order for his plan to work. [00:38:00] Speaker B: I don't believe that that's what happened. [00:38:02] Speaker A: I don't either. I have to think that God had a plan and that their decision was for the worse, but God turned that for their salvation to where we have what we have. [00:38:14] Speaker B: Completely agree. We're also taught not to have sex before we get married. We're not taught not to have sex. We're taught, don't have sex before you're married. You, you could look at that and say, oh, we're commanded to multiply and replenish the earth, and we're commanded to not have sex. Well, yeah, if you, if you don't take into consideration any of the context around that, I'm not 100% convinced that, that even then that same idea or logic couldn't have applied in the garden where you say, don't partake of this fruit. Yes, in time you will be commanded to multiply and replenish the earth. Who's to say that even in time, the plan wasn't, hey, learn this first, mature in this first, do these things first, and then partake of the fruit. Right. [00:39:04] Speaker A: Yeah, exactly. How do we know that God wasn't willing to give them the fruit at a time when they were ready for it? And instead of waiting for God, they, they Relied on someone else they worshiped somebody else who was willing to give them the knowledge on the cheap rather than receiving it from the hand of God. [00:39:20] Speaker B: And the quicker was ready faster than they, like, they, you know, I mean, it's like it is, it is funny too, because it's like, it could also be the first, like, I want it now, you know, like, oh, well. And it's funny too, because even what Eve says is, well, first of all, eating the fruit would make them become like God. Right. By the way, we're commanded to become like God. Right? [00:39:45] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:39:45] Speaker B: I'm just saying, like, all of the things that partaking of the fruit would have enabled were all appropriate things, maybe just not right at that time that that was partaken. [00:39:59] Speaker A: Right. [00:40:00] Speaker B: I'm just saying, like, I also completely agree with you and I had such a hard time with this as a kid and my parents did the best job they could at trying to explain it to me, even though my brain just couldn't comprehend it. And it took me being an adult to finally go, oh, to have it click. Because I was so distraught over the idea that God basically set them up to fail. I was distraught over that. [00:40:26] Speaker A: I'm with you. [00:40:28] Speaker B: And then again, it's like as you start looking at things in the bigger picture, you go, who we. There's so much information that we didn't know, but that we actually have little verbal cues to, which is Eve saying, well, we are told to become like a God and to know right from wrong. And you know what I mean, all. [00:40:48] Speaker A: These things, this must be. [00:40:50] Speaker B: That's exactly right. And to me, it's like, and even in that case, it even kind of makes. It kind of even makes Eve seem maybe even more mature in that situation. Adam basically was just kind of the blind, hey, God told us not to do this, so I'm not going to do this. Eve was kind of logically working through it a little bit. Yeah, she sinned, she did what she wasn't supposed to. But it seems a lot less malicious when you look at her reasoning for it. [00:41:24] Speaker A: And I look how God phrased the commandment. He says, of every tree, you may freely eat. And by freely I mean eat without consequence. But of the tree of knowledge of good and evil, you may not eat without consequence. Not that you can't eat it forever, just that you can't eat it without a consequence, because in the day you eat, you will die. There is a consequence. And we are not ready to cross that bridge yet. Or I am not commanding you to cross that bridge yet that one you can't eat without consequence. In my mind, as I read this story and as I think about it, if there is sin here, I don't know that it is necessarily that they partook of the fruit as much as who they listened to. Rather than listening to God, they listened to Satan and making the decision and what they were going to move forward with. And I think the point of the story, and we can dive into this as we get into Old Testament, but I think that what I am trying to drive at is in this case, God says that he will if you listen to him. And that's part of it. Right after they partake of the fruit. Look, if you will obey me and keep my commandments, I will turn this for your salvation. I will take your mistakes and I will sanctify you because of them. And how many times we do something wrong and we wish we could take it back, but at the same time, isn't there a learning or an experience that makes us a better person because of it? And sure, maybe we would have been even better if we'd not done it, but in spite of doing it, we still get something out of it. I think that's the Lord is sanctifying the process that if we listen to him, even those mistakes that we can't escape, he will turn for our salvation and we can benefit from them. And I think that's beautiful, to put that on Adam and Eve, is that even if it started off on the wrong foot, not that God was trying to force a bad situation, but because of their actions, the Lord was still able to turn something beautiful out of it. [00:43:25] Speaker B: I totally agree. We talked about this a little bit when we talked about King David, right? Or maybe we didn't like the idea that it's like such a knucklehead, you know what I mean? Started out so great, such a knucklehead, but through his seed was Jesus, you know what I mean? Like the salvation of the world. I'm just saying you have so many examples of even, even through these failed flawed people, like the seeds of that can still be something that's beautiful. I don't know. I know we kind of talked about that. [00:44:01] Speaker A: Yeah, you're right, we did. Yeah, that does sound familiar. And at the core of all of it, the atonement itself, the act of taking a God and crucifying him, how much worse does it get than that? And yet on this crux, this moment, hinges the salvation of all mankind. It is just a beautiful image, and yet it works at A very personal level. This idea that whatever ugliness or whatever rough patches we go through as humans trying to figure this out, yet he can sanctify that and turn it into such a beautiful thing that we can be happy, that we can find rest in spite of our. Or even because of our. [00:44:45] Speaker B: Yeah, I love it. I love it. [00:44:46] Speaker A: And I know we even mentioned going way back, the Silmarillion, and we're talking about the Lord of the Rings, this idea that he had, this God that was messing up the music and trying to introduce all these things. And Tolkien had a way of taking this and saying, okay, the Creator God was showing him the discord afterwards and said, out of this, I created ice and snow. That was beautiful. And he tried to ruin it by this. And yet we created, like, all of this, I don't know, creation through destruction. And this idea that, you know, a volcano erupts and comes through and destroys all the life, but out of that, new islands are created, a new life comes up. And. [00:45:25] Speaker B: Yeah, we were looking at the. When we were. We were up in Montana a couple weeks ago, and it's. It's funny, I had the same thought. I was like, think of how, like, it's just beautiful, rolling valley into the next huge, rolling valley and these gorgeous, huge mountains. And it's like all of this was created with absolute violence. You know, like earthquakes and volcanoes and smashing and, you know, I mean, it's like. And it's like the most beautiful thing that my eyes can possibly behold. All born through violence. [00:45:55] Speaker A: Stars exploding. The. The Earth is remnants of star guts. [00:46:00] Speaker B: It's awesome. [00:46:01] Speaker A: It's. It's interesting. It's amazing what the Lord can do if we listen. [00:46:04] Speaker B: Well, I mean, even. Whatever. I'm just saying, even, like, childbirth, you know, all of these things that are just bloody and violent and then new life is born from that. It's just. I mean, I love kind of the idea or the symbolism of the duality there. [00:46:26] Speaker A: And that's a duality we seem to run into a lot in the scriptures. We talk about the waters of life, yet the waters of death. [00:46:34] Speaker B: And this fire is being a sacred fire. And the thing that's gonna torch all the people that aren't paying their tithing. [00:46:42] Speaker A: Whether you go to heaven or hell, you're headed to the flames. [00:46:44] Speaker B: Yeah, that's right. Wow, that's a good thing. That's kind of. That's. I don't know if I like that or not. One way or the other, you're going through the fire. [00:46:54] Speaker A: Eternal flames of glory. [00:46:57] Speaker B: That's so funny. [00:46:58] Speaker A: Yeah. Purify or destroy. It is interesting. This next verse is something that I grew up with a lot. My dad quoted it, always had it memorized. I'm sure a lot of you out there, very similar. I, the Lord, am bound when you do what I say, but when you do not what I say, you have no promise. [00:47:16] Speaker B: Oh, yeah. Classic. [00:47:18] Speaker A: It's powerful, the idea that this all powerful being can be bound by you like a genie in the lamp. And maybe that's where some of this genie in the lamp comes from. This idea that this powerful God is at your service, but only in the case that you do what he says. And we've talked about this a little bit. I want to say, when you make covenants in the ancient world, they would take animals to sacrifice. So if a dominant country just destroyed a smaller country in war, and what they would do is create terms for the bigger country to protect the smaller one from their other neighbors. Like, I am the big one here. I will protect you. That is my responsibility. But in return, I expect you to pay tribute. And you need to pay so much grain or so much animals. And in making this agreement, they would take the animal, they would cut it in half, and they would have the weaker party walk through between the two pieces, saying, as a symbol, if I do not live up to the terms of this treaty, I will be destroyed. Because you are obviously the more powerful nation. You will destroy me just like you destroyed this animal. And when Abraham, when God was making a covenant with Abraham, he had Abraham sacrifice these animals. And Abraham sacrificed them and laid them all out and split the halves on either side, ready to walk between these two pieces. And he waited on the Lord, and he waited all day. And this is the Middle East. This is an area that is hot. I am sure there were flies. And he is sitting there shooting the flies away, trying to keep the sacrifice holy, waiting for the Lord to show up so that he can go through this. And when the Lord shows up, rather than requiring Abraham to walk between the pieces as the weaker party in the relationship, the Lord binds himself to Abraham by this pillar of fire going through the pieces himself. The Lord is restricting himself or putting these terms on him. I, the Lord, am bound by a covenant with you. I will do these things if you follow me. It is a powerful imagery to see that God taking that role. I know we have gone here before, but God ultimately becoming man, subjecting himself to all things so that man might become God. So I love this verse. It's a great one all right, name changes. So this is moving on to. Let's see, what section is it? Is it 82 or 83? [00:50:03] Speaker B: Still 82, right? Verse 8. Are we on an 83? [00:50:10] Speaker A: Just a second. I'll tell you. Yeah, it's still 82. You're right. You're absolutely right. So here in this section, this is kind of the funny thing. The original Revelation was, was specifically mentioning Sidney Rigdon or Oliver Cowdery. All of these people, W.W. phelps, Martin Harris, the original Revelation, all had their original names. But between the time that they received the Revelation and the time that they printed the Book of Commandments in 1835, they decided that it would be in their best interest to change all of the names so that people didn't know who they were talking about, maybe for. [00:50:53] Speaker B: Their own purposes, so they did not have to throw people under the bus. [00:50:56] Speaker A: Well, that is the funny thing, because I feel like they threw a lot of people under the bus. [00:51:00] Speaker B: Oh, yeah, they did leading up to this point. [00:51:02] Speaker A: And now they are like. And I don't know why they did not change those names, because it seems like some of those were a little bit more embarrassing. But for whatever reason, they were a little bit fearful that if this information went out and they knew who it was talking about, so they created these names and these identities. Joseph Smith takes on a few different identities. He is called Enoch in some Revelations, Ghazlim in other Revelations, and these names. This is before Joseph Smith studied Hebrew. Some of these names, I think, are just made up. They're not all Hebrew. They're not revealed names. And in fact, Orson Pratt probably gives us the best look at where or understanding of this idea. He was writing Brigham Young back and forth in the 1800, 1850s, late 1840s. He hated that the Revelations were using these names because he felt like it was misleading. It was confusing and unclear, and it wasn't very powerful. He's right. [00:52:08] Speaker B: No, I mean, he's totally right on. He's very confusing. [00:52:11] Speaker A: And so he wrote Brigham Young and asked for his permission to change Doctrine and Covenants back to the original names in the Revelation. And he was saying he couldn't even remember all of the names that were made up, and he couldn't even remember all the names of who they were referring to. And so he asked for a list of the original Revelations so he could sort this out and clarify it and make it more clear. In the early edition of Doctrine and Covenants, Brigham Young gave his permission. So he had permission to do it. Unfortunately, when Orson Pratt went To the publisher to try to change the names. It would require changing all of the plates used for printing. And it was too kind of burdensome a process, too costly to fix. [00:52:56] Speaker B: Why didn't he use Microsoft Word? [00:52:58] Speaker A: I know printing has changed a lot since. [00:53:00] Speaker B: You literally had to hit backspace, like, five times. [00:53:03] Speaker A: So it was all the way up into the 70s. We had all of these weird names and doctrine and covenants until it was changed not too long ago. So this is what Orson Pratt wrote in the 1853 edition as a response for not being able to change the names and hoping to clear up some confusion to people. He says, all these names have reference to modern persons, places and things of our day. Indeed, when these revelations were first received by the prophet Joseph, the real names were given. And it was not until months and in regard to some, even years had passed away before the names were altered and others bearing an ancient appearance were substituted. We often had access to the manuscripts when boarding with the prophet, and it was our delight to read them over and over again before they were printed. And so highly were they esteemed by us that we committed some to memory and a few we copied for the purpose of reference in our absence on missions, and also to read them to the saints for their edification. These copies are still in our possession. When at length the time arrived to print the manuscripts, it was thought best not to publish them all on account of our enemies who were seeking every means to destroy the prophet and the church. On account, however, of the great anxiety of the church to see them in print, it was concluded that the suggestions of the Spirit, through the suggestions of the Spirit, that by altering the real names given in the manuscripts and substituting fictitious ones in their stead, they might thus safely appear in print without endangering the welfare of the individuals whose real names were contained therein. So I guess they were more concerned about physical safety Than necessarily, embarrassment. It was by this means that several revelations were permitted to appear in print in the first edition that otherwise would have been withheld from the knowledge of the saints, perhaps for many long years, or at least until the more favorable circumstances would have permitted them to be made public. So that was his explanation for it. [00:55:03] Speaker B: That makes sense, yeah. [00:55:04] Speaker A: It's just kind of an interesting little deal. I don't think there's a lot of significance in the names. [00:55:10] Speaker B: I don't either, but I can't help it. [00:55:14] Speaker A: But Edward Partridge was named Alam. [00:55:19] Speaker B: What? [00:55:20] Speaker A: Yeah, and Alam. So, you know, it comes from the Hebrew. And the ayin is the first letter is actually A guttural letter. And. And people don't pronounce it anymore like they used to. So it was something like. Like. I don't know. I. I can't even say it. Right. [00:55:40] Speaker B: Right. [00:55:41] Speaker A: So. So Joseph Smith, when he learned Hebrew, he tried to preserve that sound. You see it in Moses when he refers to eternity. He. He spells it G, N, O, L, A, U, M, Nalum. Right. This gnalum. [00:55:56] Speaker B: One of my favorite missionary campaigns was other Nalia. [00:56:00] Speaker A: Oh, yeah. [00:56:00] Speaker B: Rest in peace, my friend. G, N, A, L, I, A. He's Polynesian. Samoan, I believe. Oh, but it was Ngaliai, but I could never pronounce it correctly. I'm still probably blowing it. Naliai is what we just call him. Or fano. I know we probably should have called him Elder, but we might have gotten a little casual with some of our friends there. But, yeah, the gn. I'm familiar. [00:56:23] Speaker A: Yeah. So this guttural sound in Hebrew, this word means long duration, antiquity, or futurity. I can't help but think that. So Tolkien, when he names his creature Gollum, he calls him Gollum because the throat. The sound he makes in his throat that. Whatever. I think he's borrowing from the Hebrew when he calls him that. So this Gollum means long, enduring antiquity from a long time ago. And Gollum's life makes sense. Yeah, it's extended because of this ring. Man lives for a long time. So I. Edward Partridge was the original Gollum. [00:56:58] Speaker B: Wow, man. I'm sure he's stoked about that. Edward Partridge, wherever you are. [00:57:05] Speaker A: Original Gollum. [00:57:06] Speaker B: The original Gollum. I hope that you're okay with that. Dude. In the next life we'll all know everybody, right? [00:57:13] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:57:14] Speaker B: I'm interested in asking Edward how he feels. I'll be like, ed, how do you feel about that? I'm gonna ask him. I'm making a mental note right now to ask Ed in the next life how he feels about that. [00:57:26] Speaker A: The poor guy was persecuted pretty heavy, too. He was tarred and feathered. He was the bishop of the church. He died five years before Joseph Smith. Pretty young age. I think he was 46. And Joseph Smith suggested that the reason why he died at a younger age was because of all the stress from the persecution in Missouri, the things that he went through. [00:57:47] Speaker B: And they were calling him Gollum, and. [00:57:50] Speaker A: He was called Gollum in Doctrine and Covenants. [00:57:53] Speaker B: That's like the final. That's like the straw, right, that broke the camel's back. The poor guy, he's reading the Book of Commandments and he's like, oh, man. Everybody else got Enoch, Pelagram, Pelagorum, Gazellum. I'm just Gollum. [00:58:12] Speaker A: He's Gollum. [00:58:14] Speaker B: I'm sorry. I'm sorry, Ed. [00:58:16] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:58:17] Speaker B: Rest in peace also. [00:58:19] Speaker A: All right, well, that's. I think that's all I'm going to say about these names. [00:58:23] Speaker B: All right, let's. [00:58:24] Speaker A: Let's move to the very. I think the. About the last thing we're going to talk about here, this idea that Kirtland here sets it forth as a stake. Verse 14, I believe it says, for Zion must increase in beauty and in holiness. Her borders must be enlarged, her stakes must be strengthened. Yea, verily I say unto you, Zion must arise and put on her beautiful garments. So this concept. I know a lot of times we think of Zion as independence, but it was so much more than that. Even early on in the church days, when they are talking about Kirtland, Ohio, how far away from independence is Kirtland, Ohio? And yet this is a stake of Zion. This is a part of Zion. And as we know today, Zion has spread. There are stakes in Zion all over the entire world. And it's not just because the church has spread. I mean, from the very beginning, the Lord is saying Zion must enlarge her tents. And then it talks about the beautiful garments. And so I wanted to take that in context of Isaiah chapter three and just kind of finish up with this concept of the garments of Zion being the people of Zion. How a nation is seen is by its people. When you judge a country, typically you are doing it by the people, the stereotype of the people, or what you imagine or see those people. So the people almost, in a sense, become the clothing of a country. So Isaiah chapter three, this is also in second Nephi 13. For behold, this is verse one. For behold, the Lord, the Lord of hosts, doth take away from Jerusalem and from Judah the stay and the staff, the whole stay of bread and the whole stay of water. The mighty man and the man of war, the judge and the prophet, the prudent and the ancient, the captain of 50 and the honorable man and the counselor and the cunning artificer and the eloquent orator. So what's he doing? He's taking all of these away from Judah. And why is he taking these away from Judah? They are going to be destroyed by their enemies. And it is the pride, the idea that these people, the blind, are leading the blind, the judges, the prophets, the prudent, the ancient. These are the people that are supposed to be the finest of your society, the high class of society, your fine vestiture, your fine garments, if you will. And he's going to strip them away from it. Now, in the same chapter, he talks, he kind of switches gears a little bit and he says, let's see, verse 16. Moreover, the Lord saith, because the daughters of Zion are haughty and walk with stretched forth necks and with wanton eyes, and walking and mincing as they go, and making a tinkling with their feet. Therefore the Lord will smite with the scab the crown of the head of the daughter of Zion. And the Lord will discover their secret parts. And in that day the Lord will take away the bravery of their tinkling ornaments about their feet and their cowls and their round tires, like the moon and the chains and the bracelets and the mufflers, the bonnets, the ornaments of the legs and the headbands and the tablets and the earrings, the rings and the nose jewelry, the changing suits of a parable and the mantles and the wimples and the crisping pins, the glasses. And I thought I went too far sometimes. I mean, he is going into some pretty elaborate detail. The fine linen, the hoods and the veils. And it shall come to pass that instead of sweet smell. And he is talking about all of these things being taken away. This idea that Zion or Israel was the bride of, of God and her clothing, her pride is the prophets, the wise men, the captain of 50, the people that are supposed to be protecting everybody, the people that are supposed to be watching out for them, guiding them, directing them. Yet they've become like all of these fancy jewelry where they're proudful, they're arrogant, and they're taking the focus away from the Lord onto things that don't matter. And the Lord is going to strip all of them and discover their nakedness. We've talked about Adam and Eve, this idea when Adam and Eve partook of the fruit, they saw that they were naked, they've lost something and they've discovered their nakedness and they want to hide and cover themselves. And the Lord, in the end, when he atones from them, puts garments on, he creates coats of skin to cover their nakedness. So Zion, the same type of deal. When Zion apostatized, the Lord cut off all of their beautiful garments, all of these important people, and stripped them naked and they were exposed. His bride, his wife. Not that wearing makeup is a bad thing, not that jewelry is a bad thing. Because what does the Lord say? I want Zion to arise. And not just arise, but I Want to clothe her in beautiful garments. There's supposed to be beauty in wise men and counselors, in prophets, in captains and all of these beautiful people. There is beauty there, and it's okay to wear beautiful things, but the beauty comes in, I don't know. Not in the vain, not in the proud, but in the praising of God. [01:04:13] Speaker B: Totally. That's incredible insight into that. And I'm also stressed out that it, for the first time in my entire life, actually clicked of why we call stakes. Stakes. Oh, yeah, the tent stakes. Yeah. I'm really frustrated that it's taken this long. I never thought about it for longer than five minutes before. And then when you explained it, I was just like, oh, yeah. I guess that's probably why we call these things stakes. Heaven Forbid I spend 5 minutes to try to figure out why we call wards wards. But at least steak makes sense to me now. [01:04:47] Speaker A: Steaks do make sense. [01:04:48] Speaker B: I just. Now I just feel like a total idiot that I'm today's years old, that I actually just figured that out. [01:04:53] Speaker A: No, if you feel awesome, because anything you figure out, you're that much further. [01:04:57] Speaker B: Yeah. But this one seems like it's probably something I should have figured out when I was 15. [01:05:03] Speaker A: Enlarging your stakes. [01:05:04] Speaker B: There you go. [01:05:05] Speaker A: Make Zion beautiful again. And how do you make Zion beautiful? By being the best you. I do. [01:05:11] Speaker B: I. I think the thing is, I. What I. When it talks about all of the jewelry and the expensive stuff, because we. We read a lot of the similar language in Alma. When. A lot of. And in Nephi too, right? When a lot of the. When. When pride starts catching up. Well, when you serve the Lord, a lot of the things that come with that are peace. Peace leads to affluence. Affluence leads to pride, right? And at least the cycle of that happen over and over, right? But it's interesting because again, like I. Like you said, there's the duality in all of these things, right? Like if you are. If you are dressing yourself up in all of this costly apparel to show off your affluence, to visually establish your dominance over somebody else or your betterness than somebody else, you know, to gratify your own pride, It's a problem when you wear tinkly things so that people can hear you coming down the street to know. To look at you, to see how expensive you are, then it's a problem, right? But God, on the other hand, is saying, no, no, no, no, be beautiful and I will adorn you in glory. Which is. Which is not Just superficial. And it's not about. It's not a pride thing at that point. That's God basically adorning us like as, you know, jewels in his crown. Right. I think is the difference. Right. And like you said, how do we do that? Well, I think we do that by being good neighbors and serving people and loving people. And like you said, having the wise men with us and having prophets and things with us. And you just said it, I think even more so, like beautifying our communities, you know, beautifying our neighborhoods. And it's why I feel like we spend money to build temples. It's why we, you know, whatever. I guess I'm just saying the lives that we lead, I feel like, make us beautiful, you know, not on a very superficial level. And it's to praise God and not bring praise upon ourselves. [01:07:37] Speaker A: I think that's it. And you said it so well, just by praising God, not so much yourselves. Because I think of, like you said, the tinkling is to make it so that you hear them when they're coming. This idea that the purpose of makeup isn't to make someone who's not beautiful beautiful, it's to accentuate the beauty that's already there. Right. But when the ornaments become more beautiful than the person, this idea, look at me, look at the tinkling, look at the sparkling, look at all of this. Rather than look at the person because they think they are more important than. [01:08:13] Speaker B: The person or better than that person. Yes, yes. [01:08:15] Speaker A: When it becomes all about the jewelry and not about accentuating the person wearing the jewelry, and that is Christ. When they forget Christ. And all of these wise people think that they are special without Christ, think that they look at me, how smart I am or how much I know or what I understand, and they are not connected to that vine. And they're not bringing people back to Christ to worship Christ. They're misleading people, trying to get them to follow them rather than follow Christ, then Christ is going to cut all of that off and strip his beautiful bride naked. Because all of those things are missing the point. She's focused so much on all of these jewelry, all these things that don't matter, rather than trying to beautify what's. [01:09:02] Speaker B: Already there and to try to, like you said, give the glory to God. Again, the original problem. Awesome. Good stuff. Jason, what are we talking about next week? [01:09:12] Speaker A: Next week is one of my favorite sections of all Doctrine and Covenants. There's a few. I give that to 76, 121 and 88. And next week is 84. [01:09:23] Speaker B: That's a good one. [01:09:24] Speaker A: 84 is the oath and covenant of the priesthood. We get to talk about the priesthood and about Moses and kind of the history of the priesthood. Where it's going, I don't know. [01:09:33] Speaker B: I'm fantastic. That's going to be fun. All right. Well, everybody, thank you for listening. If you have any questions or comments, please feel free to email us at. Hi. Right. [01:09:43] Speaker A: Hi. [01:09:44] Speaker B: Hi. Weekly deep dive.com and with that, we will sign off for this week. Until next week. [01:09:52] Speaker A: See ya. [01:10:00] Speaker B: SA.