D&C 77 - 80 (2020 repost)

[00:00:00] Speaker A: Foreign welcome to the weekly Deep Dive Podcast on the Add On Education Network. The podcast where we explore the weekly Come follow me discussion and try to add a little insight unique perspective. I am your host Jason Lloyd, here in the studio with my friend of this show's producer, Nate Pifer. [00:00:30] Speaker B: What is up? Hey Nate, how are you doing? [00:00:34] Speaker A: Fantastic. You have a good week? [00:00:35] Speaker B: You know it. [00:00:37] Speaker A: Good. So before we dive too much into this section, there was a few things I wanted to mention real quick with 76. I guess it was such a great section I have a hard time letting it go. At the very beginning we talked about how in verse 5, 6, 7 it says, for thus saith the Lord, I, the Lord am merciful and gracious unto those who fear me, and delight to honor those who serve me in righteousness and in truth unto the end. Great shall be their reward, and eternal shall be their glory. And to them will I reveal the mysteries, yea, and all the hidden mysteries of my kingdom. And we talked about this promise, how God was going to reveal some magnificent things. And then he followed through with this promise, saying, here's proof, proof of that by showing the vision that is Doctrine and Covenants, Section 76. But what I kind of left out last week that I wish we would have tacked on at the end is just how this is almost like a sandwich. Because he tells you right at the beginning, this is what I will do. He shows you the evidence, kind of the meat in the middle. And then he finishes up the section, just wrapping it up with this promise. Let me just read this and then I'll. I promise I'll leave 76 in the rearview mirror. Verse 114. But great and marvelous are the works of the Lord, and the mysteries of his kingdom, which he showed unto us, which surpass all understanding in glory, in might, and in dominion, which he commanded us, which we should not write while we were in the Spirit, and are not lawful for man to utter. Wait a second. They saw things that they were commanded not to write. And this is the vision that they wrote down. But there's obviously parts of this vision that didn't get written down. Nevertheless is man capable to make them known. Nevertheless is man capable to make them known. For they are only to be seen and understood by the power of the Holy Ghost, which God bestows on them who love him and purify themselves before him, to whom he grants the privilege of seeing and knowing for themselves, and through the power and the manifestations of the Spirit, while in the flesh they may be able to Bear his presence in the world of glory and to God and the Lamb, to glory and honor and dominion forever and ever. Amen. So it kind of wraps it up by saying, there were greater things that I couldn't reveal and they still can be revealed to those who serve and honor me. Just as he started it. [00:03:09] Speaker B: So dope. [00:03:10] Speaker A: Kind of a nice little sandwich there. Anyhow, let's look at doctrine and covenants 77, 78, and this section is going to talk about. 77 is going to start as Joseph Smith is translating the New Testament. He's getting to the Book of Revelation and he has a few questions. It doesn't quite make sense to him, so he asks the Lord, we're going to learn from some of these questions. 78. He can talk about the ministration of the Bishop storehouse. And then 79 and 80 more mission calls for people who are wanting to know where they should serve God. So let's start section 77. So verse one, and the question is, what is the sea of glass spoken of by John 4. 6 of the Revelation? And the answer is, it is the earth and its sanctified, immortal and eternal state. And for me, this is pretty interesting right off the bat for a number of reasons. First off, I think it's interesting the kind of questions that Joseph Smith is asking. If you see this vision of God sitting on his throne and these beasts and whatever else you're seeing in the Book of Revelation, and Joseph Smith is translating it and it describes God's throne, and then it says that before his throne is like the sea of glass. For him to fixate on this and say, what is that sea of glass? It kind of shows, I don't know, attention to detail. Like, I don't know, just this curiosity. And sometimes the questions seem pretty simple and like you're, you know, maybe there's not a whole lot behind it, but then when you get the answer, there's this huge depth or volume behind it that you're like, oh, wow, I'm glad he asked. Maybe I never would have thought to ask that myself. And it makes me wonder as I'm reading the Scriptures, what questions am I not asking or what little details that maybe I just read and go, huh? But keep going, and you know, and I just pass it by. Maybe I need to stop and look at some of those and say, wait a second, why is that detail included? What, why is that significant to the story? What importance does it have there and help me maybe ask better questions as I read the Scriptures. So we're looking at this sea of glass, and he asks, what is this? And God tells him, or that this is representative of the Earth and its celestial kingdom and God sitting on the Earth. And this to me is very interesting because John is on Earth right now, and the Earth is obviously not a sea of glass. He's the island of Patmos or wherever he's at is definitely not the sea of glass. But he's seeing God sitting on a sea of glass which represents the Earth. So if he's seeing God sitting on the earth, but the Earth doesn't look like that, he's seeing God, I don't know, across time, when the Earth has become celestialized. [00:06:06] Speaker B: Celestialized. [00:06:08] Speaker A: Celestialized, Is that a word? [00:06:12] Speaker B: Celestialized. [00:06:15] Speaker A: Made celestial. Hey, hey, if googled can be a word, then celestialized definitely can be a word. [00:06:22] Speaker B: Whatever. [00:06:24] Speaker A: So. So he's seeing. He's seeing this Earth made perfect in a time that. I mean, I don't know. It's not across space, it's across time. It's. It's interesting. And I don't know, Joseph Smith says this. So the difference is, let's see, where did I go? The past, the present, and the future were and are with him one eternal now. And this idea that, as I was thinking about this, this idea of predestination or that we're foredained that everything is already written and that we're just living out a scripted life or whatever the case may be, how do people know the future? And where does agency fit into this? If agency fits in, then how can the future already be recorded or how can it already be known? But I think looking at this vision, because John is going to be seeing throughout this revelation, not only is it prefaced by him seeing go sitting on a future Earth at a future time. So not only is he seeing across time, but he's going to be seeing across time throughout the history of Earth. And I say history, it sounds like the past, but he's going to be seeing future events for his time on Earth. And it's not that he's seeing something that hasn't happened yet in a vision. So that he's going to see a foreshadowing or a scripting that people are going to be living out later on. I think more this is saying that he is seeing the actual events unfold before him just as much as we see current events unfold before us, which is kind of crazy. I don't know. What do you think, Nate? Am I just random and weird on this or what? Yeah, sorry. [00:08:16] Speaker B: I don't know. I mean, it's cool. [00:08:19] Speaker A: Yeah. I. I don't know. I just think it's weird, this. This idea that you're watching future things happen and it's not really future because it's actually happening. It's unfolding before him, but for him, it hasn't happened yet. And to be able to see it, to see across time, powerful thing. It's amazing to me. It's. [00:08:36] Speaker B: Do you want to know how you're gonna die? Like, would you want to know? [00:08:40] Speaker A: Would I want to know how? [00:08:41] Speaker B: Yeah, because all this, honestly, just, like, it's freaky to me. I wouldn't want to see. I don't want to see a revelation of the future. I'll leave that to you and John. [00:08:52] Speaker A: I guess some. Wouldn't you want to see some future events? [00:08:55] Speaker B: Nope. [00:08:56] Speaker A: None. Future events? [00:08:57] Speaker B: No. Do you want to know why? [00:08:59] Speaker A: Because you like surprises? [00:09:00] Speaker B: No. I hate surprises. In fact, surprise is the worst thing in the entire world. In fact, I told my wife that if she ever gets the crazy idea to do, like, a surprise birthday party for me, that that's grounds for divorce. [00:09:16] Speaker A: You hate surprises that much? [00:09:18] Speaker B: I hate surprises more than anything in the world. [00:09:20] Speaker A: Then why. Why, out of the two of us here talking, why would you be the one that would not want to see anything ahead of you, and I would be the one interested in seeing. [00:09:30] Speaker B: I can tell you. [00:09:31] Speaker A: What's that? [00:09:31] Speaker B: Fomo. Because I know I'm gonna die and I'm gonna have fear of missing out. I don't want to see flying cars because then I'm going to be pissed that I don't get to have a flying car. Like, I sometimes think about this. I'm not lying. I sometimes think about how I'm clearly going to be dead in the next, I don't know, 30, 40 years. And that's if. That's if I. That's if I change my ways and, like, do things to take care of myself, right? I mean, heaven knows I could die way before then, even, right? The thing is, though, is that my kids, thank goodness, are hopefully going to live to be, you know, twice that long. And I sometimes, like, look at them while they're sleeping, and instead of thinking to myself, look how peaceful they look, I think to myself, they're going to see flying cars. And I'm not. Well, I kind of get grumpy. I'm just telling you that's. I don't want to see the future because I don't want to know what I'm missing out on. [00:10:23] Speaker A: Does that change John's perspective, though, knowing that John knowing that he is going to live forever? [00:10:30] Speaker B: I mean, that's a good point, I guess. All right, if I. Okay, okay, I take that back. You're right. If I'm living forever, then I'm like, cool, show me what you got. [00:10:36] Speaker A: Then you're not spoiling. [00:10:38] Speaker B: Then I'm like, yeah. Then I'm for sure, like, what. What am I getting for Christmas next year? [00:10:42] Speaker A: Yeah, but then you think about how much anxiety and excitement you have for, like, a package on Amazon that you never have show up at the door, right? [00:10:49] Speaker B: No, I don't want any of that. [00:10:50] Speaker A: No, come on, somebody. You're always checking the orders and see, okay, when's it going to show up? Or where's the delivery guy? [00:10:55] Speaker B: Or, dude, I hate checking the mail just because I'm sure there's gonna be something in there I don't want to see. [00:11:00] Speaker A: No, but if you know it's coming, like a package you ordered on Amazon or Christmas, if you know what you're gonna get, you know what's coming. You're excited. You can't wait for it. And sometimes the hardest part is the waiting. Right. So John seeing flying cars or whatever the case may be, how hard is it for him knowing that he is at least 2,000 years away from that? [00:11:18] Speaker B: Oh, yeah. Because he also has to deal with all the other stuff in between that. Yeah, see, I see. There you go. I don't want to see it. I'm telling you, all of this stuff, every time I read about these guys having, like, these crazy visions, I'm always like, count me out. [00:11:32] Speaker A: Well, it's interesting nonetheless. And I think for me, my perspective changed a little bit on this in that it's not that God is writing the script, right? Almost. Almost. Go to, like, the Loki series, the tva. This idea that I was going to bring that up. [00:11:49] Speaker B: Dang it. You beat me to it. [00:11:51] Speaker A: The idea that somebody is writing the future and that we have no control. This is the timeline. I don't think that's the case. I think what's happening is just as Joseph Smith said. The past, the present, the future were and are with him, one eternal now. And this idea that John is seeing it happen not as this. This is what's going to. He's watching it unfold as it's happening through time. [00:12:18] Speaker B: All right, it's cool. Let's move on. [00:12:19] Speaker A: I'm moving on. All right, going to this idea of the sea of glass. Doctrine Covenants 130, verse 8 gives us a little bit of insight into this. It says the place where God resides is a giant Urim and Thummim. This earth in its sanctified and immortal state, will be made like unto crystal and will be a Urim and Thummim to the inhabitants that dwell thereon, whereby all things pertaining to an inferior kingdom or all kingdoms of a lower order will be manifest to those who dwell on it. And this earth will be Christ's. This is kind of an interesting description. And he makes some, I think, some key statements when he says all things pertaining to an inferior kingdom or all kingdoms of a lower order. And God's sitting on his throne. He's looking into this sea of glass, and he's seeing all things pertaining to the earth. I think we can agree the earth is inferior to God's celestial kingdom or where he's residing right now. But if we keep reading verse 10 of Doctrine and Covenants, section 130 also tells us that those who obtain that kingdom, the highest order of that kingdom, are also receive a stone that they can look into and see things pertaining to a higher kingdom and this pattern. [00:13:44] Speaker B: A higher kingdom, you say? A higher kingdom than the celestial kingdom. [00:13:48] Speaker A: And not just the celestial, but the highest order of the celestial kingdom. [00:13:51] Speaker B: Wow. [00:13:53] Speaker A: And that's a pattern that we already have right now because we don't look into the earth to see what's going on. God gives his prophets here on earth, a rock, a Urim and Thummim, to see things pertaining to his kingdom while he sits on a throne with a sea of glass before him that he could look down into to see things pertaining to our kingdom. So we expect that pattern to continue even after this life, this idea that we can look through a handheld device. And I think there's something symbolic there. Anything of a higher kingdom you have in your hand, you hold up high and you can see above. Everything in a lower kingdom sits below your feet. The sea of glass is at the footstool, the throne of God. And he looks down through his feet to see things that are below him, dos all things under his feet. So for what it's worth, I don't understand all the kingdoms. I don't understand what's all out there. But it is interesting, this idea. And I think we get a lot of that just because Joseph Smith noticed this little detail about a sea of glass and said, wait, what's that sea of glass all about? And now all of a sudden we have all of this depth and understanding that wasn't there before. [00:15:00] Speaker B: It's awesome. [00:15:02] Speaker A: And I think I would have a hard time understanding this concept of a sea of glass. A long time ago. It just seems weird. Like, is this a volcano? Is this some big weird crystal ball? Or how does it work? But more and more, it almost seems to make sense. Like, you think about the sea of glass that we look into now called TVs and telephones and computers. We see things pertaining to the world around us. We get to know it by looking through these. A literal sea of glass. So my question is the celestial kingdom just the largest big screen TV of all times? [00:15:42] Speaker B: God, I'm sorry that he's saying this on the podcast. If you're going to strike down in the studio, just spare me and Mason, who's back on the couch, just hit Jason, please. If you're going to hit anybody, we. [00:15:55] Speaker A: Could take it one step worse. I mean, it's not just the big screen tv, but his throne is sitting on the screen tv. He's got a front row seat to a big screen tv. Tv. [00:16:05] Speaker B: God, if you're going to strike us, just let me move away a little bit further first, please. [00:16:11] Speaker A: So. So sea of glass might have been a weird concept back in the day of John, but I think in our. [00:16:15] Speaker B: You look in your phone, you know what I mean? Like, you hold that above your head. That's a little rock you look into, and it tells you everything you want to know. [00:16:22] Speaker A: Oh, it really does. You ask just about any question. I mean, a lot of these ideas and concepts were so, like magic or fascinating. But I. I think more and more, God. With. I'd say this. With the restoration of the gospel came not only an opening of the floodgates of revealed truth through Joseph Smith, but the world over. An opening of floodgates in science and technology and bringing us closer as his kingdom is here on earth, to how his kingdom is in heaven. To a certain degree. [00:16:52] Speaker B: I totally agree with that. [00:16:55] Speaker A: For what it's worth, I thought it was kind of interesting. [00:16:57] Speaker B: No, it's great. [00:16:57] Speaker A: Okay, next up. Oh, another thought, I guess. Last thought on the sea of glass, and I promise I'll move on. [00:17:06] Speaker B: That's good. [00:17:06] Speaker A: Okay, go back to Brigham Young Journal of Discourse. He says the same kind of thing. He says this earth will become a celestial body, be like a sea of glass or like a Urim and Thummim. Urim and Thummim, by the way, is Hebrew for lights and perfections. When you wish to know anything, you can look into this earth and see all the eternities of God. We shall make our home here and go on our missions as we do now. So here was the thought I had. This has been in the news for the last couple years, I think quite a bit. This idea that we are searching for life outside of life on Earth and we find all of these planets that are potential Earths, that they are in this Goldilocks zone, that they have a similar atmospheric composition. And we are trying to find is there another Earth like planet out there? Is there life out there besides our own? And I wonder, as we talked Last week in 76, this idea of we were existing for eternity before we got here. We're here for such a short time and then it's eternity afterwards. If you look at the conditions that support life, Earth is a tiny speck of that time. And if the rest of our time is going to be on a sea of glass, a crystal like planet, maybe we're searching for life in all the wrong places. We're just looking for this tiny instance where a planet can support life when perhaps we should turn our focus to the sun. That's almost like a giant sea of glass. What's going on there that's giving light and life to the rest of the solar system that's allowing us to live here on Earth. What civilization or society could possibly be there? What is this like to be a crystal like structure that emanates light? And I don't know, I just. Maybe I'm way off on that. But it just seems like if an eternity spent living on a planet like that versus a very small time on an Earth existence, maybe we should look outside of what we're familiar with and not just go with what we think has to be the case to support life. Maybe there's a greater capability to support life in a different form that we're just not familiar with. [00:19:21] Speaker B: Cool. [00:19:21] Speaker A: Anyways, moving on. Question. Let's see. Verse 2. What are we to understand by the four beasts spoken of in the same verse? And the answer is they are figurative expressions used by the Revelator, John, in describing heaven, the paradise of God, the happiness of man and of beasts and of creeping things and the fowls of the air. That which is spiritual being in the likeness of that which is temporal, and the temporal in the likeness of that which is spiritual. The spirit of man and the likeness of his person as also the spirit of the beast and every other creature which God created. Kind of a mouthful, but I do get a few things out of this one. Our spirits look like our physical bodies. My daughter asked me this Question. Not too long ago, she was thinking about things and said, how do we know if we looked like what we look like now in the spiritual world? Like, are spirits really looking like people? Like, well, we're created in the image of God, right? Our spirits. When Christ appeared to earth, he looked like a man before he received his body. So I would assume that our spirits looked like our physical bodies. But that was something that she was wondering about. Maybe our spirits look more like these little spheres of light or globes, or these intelligences were just some other form, and then it got shaped into a man. But here in this verse, I think it makes it a little bit more clear. It says that the spirit being in the likeness of that which is temporal, and the temporal and the likeness of that which is spiritual. It's not that we morphed into some other shape or change in the spiritual. Whatever. I think we've existed in the same form, just different material making that form in the spirit world here, at least that's one thing I kind of take from this verse. The other thing I think is interesting is the animals are also exalted. It says the happiness of man and of beasts and of creeping things. And creeping things are not left out of God's thoughts and show up here in heaven. And that's one of the points that God's saying. All of his creation is going to find this happiness and going to be saved. And I think for a lot of people, imagining heaven is imagining a place where there are no spiders or snakes. But I think we'd be surprised if we find out. [00:21:37] Speaker B: Or sharks. [00:21:38] Speaker A: Or sharks. [00:21:41] Speaker B: Okay, so here's a question for you. [00:21:42] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:21:44] Speaker B: Is there going to be water in heaven? [00:21:47] Speaker A: Great question. I don't have the answer. [00:21:54] Speaker B: All right, well, maybe you should pray about it because you're the righteous one of the two of us. [00:22:00] Speaker A: That's not true. And you know, it's. [00:22:04] Speaker B: Will you find out? [00:22:05] Speaker A: I mean, if God is saving the fish. [00:22:08] Speaker B: That's what I mean. [00:22:08] Speaker A: And the fish are going to heaven. [00:22:10] Speaker B: Okay, so let me ask you this. [00:22:12] Speaker A: Yes. [00:22:12] Speaker B: Because I hate sharks. Okay, what if. So, are all animals being exalted? Like, do all of them make the celestial kingdom? [00:22:23] Speaker A: I will say this. All animals have ever lived are represented in the celestial kingdom. And just as all people, in the sense that all people will make it to the celestial kingdom, in the fact that all races or species or whatever. Not saying every man makes it, but all species are representing the fact that all are open invitation. Whoever makes it makes it. Right. [00:22:50] Speaker B: Okay, well, my question is Because. Because clearly sharks suck and are dumb. Does every shark that's ever lived. Because they couldn't really make any better decisions on this earth other than just to go around biting people's arms off. Can they? Like, I'm just saying, like, do any sharks go to the telestral kingdom? [00:23:15] Speaker A: See, I think a phrase that's been tossed around that's kind of sticking in my mind right now is to fulfill the measure of its creation. [00:23:22] Speaker B: I'm saying, like, what does a fish do to fulfill a measure of its creation? Just swims around and gets eaten. [00:23:28] Speaker A: Right? [00:23:29] Speaker B: I guess that's my question. Because if so, if all these animals. [00:23:33] Speaker A: I think they're held to a different level of accountability than we are. Right. Where much is given, much is expected. Sure, sure. [00:23:39] Speaker B: I guess I'm just saying, like, I don't know how fish can sin. So my thought is, is there fish hell? That's what I'm saying. Because hopefully there's shark hell and we can just get them out of heaven. But my point is, that's gonna be so crowded. [00:23:54] Speaker A: What happened with sharks? [00:23:55] Speaker B: Oh, dude, have you ever watched the Discovery Channel? Shark Week? Yeah, all right, whatever. [00:24:00] Speaker A: Kind of. [00:24:01] Speaker B: So I've watched it intensely. My point is, that's gonna be a lot of fish and a lot of sharks and a lot of animals overpopulating the celestial kingdom. If they all make it because they can't really sin because they don't know any better. That's gonna be kind of gross, man. All the spiders that have ever lived just hanging out. All the sharks that have ever lived just swimming around, making it so you can't even go to the beach in heaven. [00:24:30] Speaker A: I'm sure some of them have made some poor decisions along the way. What are you talking about? Think about this. What happened when Christ is walking there and he looks at the fig tree that deceptively looks like it's got figs on it, and he goes to eat, and there's nothing there. And he curses that tree. [00:24:47] Speaker B: Come on, man. That tree is just doing its best. [00:24:52] Speaker A: If a tree is just doing its best, whatever, man. [00:24:54] Speaker B: There's going to be a lot of sharks in heaven. Is the conclusion that I've come to on this. Let's continue. [00:24:58] Speaker A: But I'll give you a little bit of words of comfort if I can. If it's comforting, sure, try. Actually, I don't know if it is comforting. Maybe it's more depressing. [00:25:06] Speaker B: Oh, no. [00:25:07] Speaker A: This idea that it takes life to sustain life, right. We have to eat. And that means that something has to Die in order for us to get the energy we need to live totally. I don't believe that's the case in the celestial kingdom. This idea that we live forever. I don't think we have to rob life in order to sustain our life anymore. I think we're quickened by the spirit, whatever that means. I think we are made alive, and therefore we no longer have to rely on this idea of preying on or eating anything else. So maybe you and the sharks can go hang 10 and be friends. [00:25:43] Speaker B: I'm not about that. [00:25:45] Speaker A: You and the sharks. [00:25:47] Speaker B: I don't even take baths. [00:25:48] Speaker A: Oh, dear. [00:25:49] Speaker B: I'm just worried sharks might pop up out of the drain or something. [00:25:53] Speaker A: You know, Jaws had quite the effect on people back. [00:25:56] Speaker B: I hate sharks. Let's move on. [00:25:57] Speaker A: All right. [00:25:58] Speaker B: Aliens and sharks. [00:26:00] Speaker A: By the way, Joseph. Joseph Smith did say something regarding this. Let's see if I've got it. I make this. Let's see. Nope, nope, nope. That's not it. Give me. Give me one second. Nate. [00:26:19] Speaker B: I'm not worried about it. [00:26:21] Speaker A: I'm opening up. I'm opening up the teachings of the prophet Joseph. This just. Just to. [00:26:27] Speaker B: Is this about the animals? [00:26:28] Speaker A: Oh, yeah. Just a concluding thought. [00:26:30] Speaker B: All right. I know that I can't possibly be the only one. It's not only that, too, but like dinosaurs or dinosaurs hanging out in the. [00:26:36] Speaker A: Celestial kingdom, you know, I don't know that dinosaurs had a soul. I don't know if I would go that far. I think when Genesis says this is the generation in the history of Earth from the start here. I think this is our chapter, if you will, starting from about 6,000 years ago to wherever it wraps up. That is our chapter. I guess it would be more like 7,000 years ago now, but this is our chapter, our period. [00:27:11] Speaker B: So you're saying the sharks are probably sent off to a different planet with the dinosaurs? [00:27:15] Speaker A: Oh, no, they're mansion. All right. All right. Here's what he says. I suppose John saw beings there of a thousand forms that have been saved from 10,000 times 10,000 earths like this. Strange beasts of which we have no conception. All might be seen in heaven. Oh, so, man. Nate, I guess dinosaurs are going to be there. You can be friends with the raptors. Keep going. [00:27:39] Speaker B: I hate this. Keep. Keep going. [00:27:41] Speaker A: The grand secret was to show John that there was in heaven. Oh, excuse me. The grand secret was to show John what there was in heaven. John learned that God glorified himself by saving all that his hands had made, whether beasts, fowls, fish or men. And he will glorify himself with them. Says one. I cannot believe in the salvation of beasts. Any man who will tell you that this could not be would tell you that the revelations are not true. [00:28:14] Speaker B: I guess the revelations are not true. [00:28:17] Speaker A: Jurassic Park. [00:28:48] Speaker B: Hopefully the dinosaurs aren't up there with us too. All this just sounds. All this just sounds terrifying, if I'm being totally honest with you. Now I'm just. Now I'm just freaking out, you know. [00:28:58] Speaker A: It wouldn't be heaven if you were freaking out, though. It's gonna be a calm. [00:29:01] Speaker B: All right. All right. We can move on. [00:29:03] Speaker A: Whatever it's gonna be, it's gonna be not so bad. [00:29:05] Speaker B: All right. We'll see. [00:29:08] Speaker A: Okay. Talking about these beasts, it gets a little bit. It gets a little bit crazy. And. And this is probably. I. I keep going back to Joseph Smith. We are in Doctrine Covenants. He is. He is the one that wrote it, so I guess it's fair. He tells a story about one of the elders, Elder Brown, he's kind of older, and he was going around teaching people that the beasts in the Revelation of John represented kingdoms of God, God's kingdom here on earth. And the High Council decided to discipline Elder Brown and pulled him in and tried to set him straight. And so Elder Brown went to Joseph Smith, a little bit concerned about all of this. And that's where this story comes in. Is Joseph Smith kind of talking about this and then what the significance of the beast mean. So if you want to understand anything about the beast in the book of Revelation or the beast in the book of Daniel, look at the teachings of the prophet Joseph Smith. We can put a link up this on the. On the website if you want. Starts on page 287 and it goes for a few pages in here. I'm not going to read the whole thing, but I am going to pull a few little excerpts out of this, if you will permit me. Let's see. This is Joseph Smith. The subject I intend to speak upon this morning is one that I have seldom touched upon since I commenced my ministry in the Church. It is a subject of great speculation as well amongst the elders of the Church as among the divines of the day. It is in relation to the beast spoken by John the Revelator. I have seldom spoken from the Revelations, but as my subject is a constant source of speculation amongst the others, causing a division of sentiment and opinions in relation to it, I do now, in order that the division and difference of opinion may be done away with and not that correct knowledge on the subject is so much needed at the present time. And maybe that's a good point, not that the correct knowledge on the subject is so much needed at this present time. And that's a point that he's going to drive through a little bit. He says it's not very essential for the elders to have knowledge in the relation to the meaning of beasts and heads and horns and other figures made use of in the Revelation. Still, it may be necessary to prevent contention and division and do away with suspense. If we get puffed up thinking that we have much knowledge, we are apt to get a contentious spirit. And correct knowledge is necessary to cast out that spirit. And that last line I love, because this is this idea that learning is a dangerous thing, but the solution really is more learning. It's when we know a little bit that we act in ignorance until we really come to fully understand it. And we need to kind of focus a little bit more and learn a little bit more. But so. Sorry, were you going to say something? Okay, I will endeavor. Okay. So Elder Brown, I should not have called upon the subject had it not been for this circumstance. So he wasn't even going to talk about the beast except for this happened. Elder Brown, one of the wisest old heads we have among us and whom I now see before me has been preaching concerning the beast. And the High Council undertook to censor and correct Elder Brown because of his teachings in relation to the beast. And he goes through this whole little deal. And he says that Elder Brown was teaching that the beasts were represent the kingdoms of God. I'm going to fast forward a little bit, Father Brown. Let's see. And so far, so good. But I could not help laughing at the idea of God making use of the figure of beasts to represent his kingdom on the earth consisting of man, when he could well have used a far more noble and consistent figure. What the Lord may use of the figure of a creature, of the brute creation to represent, which is much more noble, glorious and important, the glories and majesties of his kingdom. And so I think in here there lies a key. When we talk about symbols in the Scriptures, there are different layers or hierarchies. And this idea that he would use a beast and this base image to represent this kingdom or this glory seems a little bit absurd to the prophet. And he's kind of pointing that out that we see this, this idea of hierarchy and the story of the talking donkey in the Old Testament. [00:33:31] Speaker B: I love this one. [00:33:34] Speaker A: This idea that a prophet is almost like an exalted man and you see this when God calls Moses to be a prophet, right? And he says, you will be God to Aaron, and Aaron will be a prophet to you in order to speak to Pharaoh. So you've got the prophet, and then you've got man, you got Pharaoh, and then you've got below man, this. This animal kingdom, which is more base. And even in the animal kingdom, you've got these eagles or these bears or these lions or whatever, right? These noble creatures. But then below that you have, like, the beast of burden. So in the talking donkey story, you've got a prophet that represents the top of the top as far as man. And he is being called to speak in the name of the Lord. But because he is blinded by his own jealousies, we won't go into all the details of the story. We will just keep it kind of simple for now because it is more about Doctrine and Covenants. [00:34:26] Speaker B: I know, but it is a good story, dude. [00:34:28] Speaker A: It is a good story. [00:34:30] Speaker B: All right, keep going. I love this story. [00:34:33] Speaker A: But because he is so blinded by his own riches, the Lord takes this donkey and uses that to speak to him. The donkey sees an angel standing in the way, not the prophet, and the donkey falls to his knees. Almost like this idea of worshiping God where the prophet doesn't because he's chasing his own riches. And when it gets to the point where he's finally beating his donkey, the donkey speaks in the name of the Lord and saying three times now I stop because there's an angel in the way with the sword, and I'm trying to save your life. And this idea that God is exalting this base creature, which is even lower than man, to almost the role of a prophet should be humiliating to a prophet who is at the top, who is now showing him you are taking on the role of the ass. You are acting like a dumb creature to the point where I needed a dumb creature to act as a prophet to you. So there is some symbolism in this idea of this hierarchy and how God uses these images. And I think Joseph does a good job of kind of enlightening us on. On these images and how they work as we. We're reading through the book of Revelation. And if you. If you want a full read on it, I mean, it's a good. It's a good subject. Joseph Smith expounds it really quite well. And maybe I'll just leave it at that. [00:36:02] Speaker B: It's awesome. [00:36:04] Speaker A: Yeah, he does kind of leave off saying it's not very essential for the elders to have knowledge in relation to the meaning of beasts. We said that part already. Just see if there's anything else I wanted to kick in here. [00:36:18] Speaker B: What about the story of this donkey that talks? [00:36:21] Speaker A: Yeah, we are. We already talked about the talking donkey. [00:36:24] Speaker B: I know, but I love that one. [00:36:25] Speaker A: And we'll talk about it next year. We got Old Testament rolling up. [00:36:29] Speaker B: Dude, do you want to know what else is in the Old Testament? [00:36:32] Speaker A: What else is in the Old Testament? [00:36:33] Speaker B: A list of begats. Dude, you've been waiting for baguettes for a while. I can't wait. I am so excited for when we get to just do chapters and chapters of begatting and who begat who. Oh, man. Are you going to let me take one of those? [00:36:48] Speaker A: Let the begetting begin. [00:36:50] Speaker B: Are you going to let me begat? [00:36:53] Speaker A: You've already begat. [00:36:54] Speaker B: I've already begun to begat. [00:36:56] Speaker A: You can. You can begat. [00:36:58] Speaker B: Do I have your word on this? [00:36:59] Speaker A: Yes, sir. [00:37:00] Speaker B: Dude, it's going to be. It's going to be the greatest podcast production spectacle you've ever seen. [00:37:06] Speaker A: Oh, dear. [00:37:07] Speaker B: Seriously, you should. Yes, oh dear is right. [00:37:10] Speaker A: You know that. So I was looking at this in the Old Testament. The church has already published the manual for Old Testament next year. So I've been excited, looking ahead and trying to see what chapters are in there, what chapters are not. I am sure the church has left out most of the begetting chapters. [00:37:26] Speaker B: We're not. [00:37:27] Speaker A: It's going to be. We're not a special episode. [00:37:31] Speaker B: We're not leaving those out. [00:37:33] Speaker A: That's the. [00:37:34] Speaker B: I give you my word, if there. [00:37:36] Speaker A: Was no begetting, there'd be no us. [00:37:39] Speaker B: We began with the begats. [00:37:42] Speaker A: All right, let's see. Let me, let me, let me. Let me get the rest of 77 out of the way. Let's move into 78. Sorry. We spent. Spend way too much time on these. [00:37:53] Speaker B: Beasts now, dude, the animal thing, that's. [00:37:55] Speaker A: Interesting to me and the sea of. [00:37:56] Speaker B: Glass and whatever, that stuff's interesting. What's next? Let's keep going. [00:38:00] Speaker A: Okay. John sees this book that has seven seals, represents the 7,000 years of the earth's existence. We look at about 4,000 years before Christ came. We're about 2,000 years after. So we are in the 7,000th year of the earth's history. And it's kind of cool the way this is set up, like a week. So you look at creation and the first day, God created. And God created. Now get to the seventh day. On the seventh day, God rested. So you look at the history of man here on Earth, according to the book of Revelation, and according to this Revelation Joseph Smith is receiving. Those seven seals represent 7,000 years of Earth's history. And the 7,000th year is our millennial year, which is going to be a day of rest. Six days is all of the work in creation. Then on the seventh day is going to be this millennial period. But that doesn't necessarily mean that the whole 7,000th year is going to be this restful, peaceful thing. As we look at these different thousand years, they are representative of some of the great events that happened in those years. You've got these four horsemen and this death and famine and pestilence. It is not that death and famine and pestilence was. Was an essential part of every day of every year for 1,000 years, as much as that thousand year period was known for having a lot of those events. And I think the same is going to be said about the millennium when we talk about the thousand years of peace. I don't know that it is literally 1000 years of peace or if it is that thousand year period of time that wraps up everything in which peace was achieved here on the Earth. Because you look at the opening of the seventh seal and you go into the Book of Revelation, there are some crazy things that are happening at the opening of that seventh seal. And maybe the last thing I want to say on this subject is we're talking about the Book of Revelation and some of these destructive things that John sees in the fifth seal and the sixth Seal. A lot of times we read those and it might fill you with a little bit of dread or make you feel like you're going to be swimming with sharks in your case, as you read some of these events and say, I don't want to see that. I don't want to be here for that. I think, and as we've said in previous episodes, I think a lot of this has already passed us by when we talk about the sixth seal being open and things happening there. It's done, it's accomplished, we've moved on. And one thing that I think highlights that for me is when he says, let's see, when he talks about the opening of the seventh seal in verse 13. When are the things to be accomplished which were written of in the ninth chapter of Revelation, they are to be accomplished after the opening of the seventh seal, before the coming of Christ. So this idea of the Second Coming, it's not that the second coming happens at the very beginning of the opening of the seventh seal. And then we have this millennium, thousand years, the seventh seal has to be opened and these destructions have to happen and the Gospel has to be restored and there has to be a gathering. A lot of these things have to happen after the opening of the seventh seal, but before Christ comes again. So just a note on that timeline. [00:41:32] Speaker B: Awesome. [00:41:33] Speaker A: Okay. We talk about the 144,000, we talk about the four corners of the Earth. There is a lot going on here and we could dive into all of this, but I think it fits more in a deep dive in the Book of Revelation if we were doing New Testament and had the proper time to dive into each one of these chapters. So I am not going to dive into a lot of those details here. Maybe all I will leave this off at is a quick discussion on the symbolism of numbers. Because you hear some of these numbers showing up. 12, 144,000 and the six, the seven. What do they mean? And when we talk about four, Earth is often associated as this idea of four. The four corners, north, east, south, west. And three is often associated as heaven. And if you are looking at a parabola, it is defined by three points. If you are looking at a plane, then. I don't know. We're not going to go into math too much this time. [00:42:35] Speaker B: Thank you. [00:42:37] Speaker A: But this idea that the circle is symbolic of heaven, eternity, and it's symbolically represented the three the Godhead, God the Father, the Son, the Holy Ghost. Three represents heaven, four represents earth, or three represents the spiritual realm, four represents the physical realm, the four corners of the Earth. And when you take the physical realm, four, and you add it to the spiritual realm. And you see this in architecture all over the place when you go to the temple and you'll see this. In fact, you see this on the church website because it's our new logo. The rectangle represents the four. And what's at the top of the rectangle? The arch, the circle, heaven meeting earth. So the tomb, the open tomb, this idea of a rectangular opening with the circular arch that is heaven and earth. 4 and 3 and 4 and 3 combined gives you 7, which means perfection. So in 7, you get this idea of perfection. And you see these numbers play out in the temple. If you go to the baptismal font, I think this is one of the best places where you see this all. And it's a gathering of the Israel. And so this is where we're going to pull into the 144,000 real quick. A lot of us realize that the baptismal font is placed on the back of oxen Right. And I think most people, if you were to ask them about the oxen, they would say that it's just a circular ring of oxen. But what I don't know if people notice as often is that it's not just a circular ring of oxen. It is four groups of oxen facing the four cardinal directions, the north, east, south and west. You have three oxen that face north, three oxen that face east, three oxen that face south, and three oxen that face west. So again, you have four groups of three and four times. Three or three, four times gives you 12, the 12 tribes of Israel. The ox was a symbol of God. That is why they built the golden calf, to try to worship Jehovah. Idols were a bad thing, no doubt. But still, this idea that this was the God of Jacob, the bowl of Jacob, this image of Israel, and in this baptismal font, you have the earthly people being baptized for the dead, the spiritual realm, this idea that the spiritual and the physical are gathered together and we without the dead cannot be perfected. Neither can the dead not be perfected without us. That we are linking the two together, this four and this three, to create perfection and gathering in the 12, which is Israel. And the 12. 12 times is 144, which is where we're getting this 144,000. So there's a lot of imagery going on with these numbers and this play on numbers. Just. I. I don't know, I worked through that kind of quick, but I love that stuff. [00:45:29] Speaker B: That's my favorite stuff that we do. [00:45:31] Speaker A: Yeah, it's. It's just kind of interesting and kind. [00:45:37] Speaker B: Of also gives you the idea of like the sheet of glass that's at God's feet too. It's the idea that that could even look like still water in a baptismal font, too. [00:45:47] Speaker A: Absolutely. In fact, they called. They called the baptismal font in the old Jewish temple on the oxen. They called it a sea of brass. And they think that when they talk about that in the book of Revelation, it is a direct mention of this wash laven that sat on the oxen's back then, this idea that we must pass through the waters of baptism to enter into God's kingdom, that this is a fitting image that we must pass through that sea to get where he is at. [00:46:25] Speaker B: Dude, are you proud of me that I was able to put together the sea of glass thing without any notes or anything? [00:46:30] Speaker A: I'm super proud of you. [00:46:31] Speaker B: Thanks, buddy. [00:46:32] Speaker A: And it's cool because the book of Revelation is actually a tour of the heavenly temple. You see, the menorah, the candlestick shows up at the very beginning. And this is this heavenly tour. And a lot of commentators have made mention of that sea of glass as that wash basin in the Jewish temple. And this idea that the temple in heaven is the prototype for building temples here on earth, that. That's what we are duplicating. [00:46:58] Speaker B: Wow. [00:46:59] Speaker A: So great connection. [00:47:00] Speaker B: Thanks, buddy. [00:47:02] Speaker A: All right, let's move to section 78. Assuming we have some time. [00:47:07] Speaker B: We got a little time. [00:47:08] Speaker A: All right, I'll make it quick then. 78 is interesting in the sense that it's changed quite a bit from what it originally was. They used different names. And this actually cracked me up when I read this. In I guess an older version of this section, they refer to Joseph as Enoch instead of Joseph. In the heading, it says they decided it was probably not a good idea to use real names for people. And I wonder how they came to that conclusion after how many people got thrown under the bus and doctrine. [00:47:46] Speaker B: And yeah, dude, we are using real people's names all the time. [00:47:49] Speaker A: They are like, you know what? Maybe we do not want to make people feel bad anymore. Let us change some of the names and protect some of the identities. So the original version, they had changed the names to try to hide who they were actually talking about. So Joseph was Enoch in this case. But it is not just the names that have changed. They also changed. This wasn't about the bishop's storehouse. This was about the printing office and the mercantile. And this idea that they needed to build this business and able to help financially support some of the poor. And the business, if I remember right, was a bust. It didn't go so well, 1832 to 1834, and it kind of fell apart. And so the revelation shifted, and they changed the wording of the revelation to be the mercantile and the printing office to now refer to the bishop's storehouse. So the revelation evolved in more ways than one. And, you know, some people might look at that a little bit critical and say, well, what's going on here? Why did they change it? But I think a good key to understanding that is actually verse two, and listen to the counsel of him who has ordained you from on high, who shall speak in your ears the words of wisdom, that salvation may be unto you the things which you have, the things which you have presented before me, saith the Lord God. So whose idea was this to build the mercantile and the print office? And here God saying, that salvation may be unto you in that thing which you have presented before me. So Joseph Smith is trying to find ways to take care of the poor. And he has come up with this idea to have a mercantile and a printing office and to raise money by selling the Revelations, by selling the Book of Mormon, by selling stuff from the store to be able to take care of the poor. And he's taking this idea to God. And so God's saying, okay, let me give you some direction to help you with this. And I think the Lord is taking what man is doing and trying to make the most of it, but he's using it as a stepping stone to get them to ultimately where they need to be, where this evolves and adapts into the Bishop Storehouse later on and becomes the system that we are much more familiar with now as far as in terms of taking care of the poor and providing for the needs of others. [00:50:20] Speaker B: Cool. [00:50:22] Speaker A: So in here there are some amazing promises. Maybe I'll just read a couple of these and then let's go to 7980 and call it a wrap. When he talks about, let's see that you may come up unto the crown prepared for you and be made rulers over many kingdoms, saith the Lord God. So not only in this idea of the celestial kingdom, this idea of glory you're being saved is heaven, but also the sense that many kingdoms, that you will be made rulers over many kingdoms, saith the Lord God, the Holy One, who hath established the foundations of Adam on diamond, who hath appointed Michael your prince and established his feet and sent him on high, and given unto him the keys of salvation under the counsel and direction of the Holy One, who is without beginning of days or end of life. Verily, verily, I say unto you, you are little children and you have not yet as understood how great blessings the Lord God hath in his own hands and prepared for you. And he who receiveth all things with thankfulness shall be made glorious. And this idea of thankfulness, we missed an opportunity to talk about this in some previous sections. But God says, in nothing does man offend God, except for he who does not recognize God's hand and is thankful in all things. So God says, he who receiveth all things with thankfulness shall be made glorious. And the things of this earth shall be added unto him, not the things of heaven, the things of this earth shall be added unto him even an hundredfold yea more. And you think about that. If you're a God, you can create worlds without ends, and you create a hundred earths. I mean, and all the things that are in the earth are. Are really ultimately your creation. There's some amazing blessings there. Wherefore do the things which I have commanded you, saith the Redeemer, even the Son. Amen. Who prepareth all things before he taketh you. And it's interesting they put that name here, this idea, the Son. Amen. It'll show up in, I think, one or two other places in Doctrine Covenants. I think there's some significance to that, but it's not anything. I want to dive here on the. Dive in here on the podcast. Let me just finish that. He that is faithful and wise steward shall inherit all things. Amen. So some really cool promises to wrap this up in.79 and 80. These are really short verses, and I think the contrast putting them right next to each other is amazing because they are issuing commandments and telling them, okay, this is where I want you to serve. And. And you've gotten one of them. I say unto you, go into the east countries. Let's see, verse 79, verse 1. Verily, I say unto you that it is my will that my servant Jared Carter should go again unto the eastern countries from place to place and from city to city in power and ordinance wherein he has been ordained. So we've talked about these callings coming from God and this idea that God is calling them by name and sending them to a specific place. And that happens. But I think more often than not, we're very familiar with what happens in section 80. Verily, thus saith the Lord unto you, my servant, Stephen Burnet. Go ye, go ye into the world and preach the gospel to every creature that cometh in the sound of your voice. And then he says, wherefore go ye and preach my gospel? Whether to the north or to the south, to the east or to the west, it mattereth not. For you cannot go amiss. And how many times are we looking for specific direction from God? And pray and ask him, God, what job should I take? I've got these two great opportunities. Or look at these house options. Which one should I buy? And whether you go to the north, the east, the south, or the west, you cannot go amiss. Sometimes that is as specific as revelation as God is going to give you is do what you want to do, it is going to be all right. So sometimes he is very specific and tells us what to do, where to go. And sometimes he tells us, I am leaving that up to you. And sometimes it is a lot harder when he leaves it up to us. And it is hard to let go and know and say, okay. Am I doing the right thing? But we just got to let go and say okay. [00:54:56] Speaker B: Love it. What are we talking about next week? [00:54:58] Speaker A: Next week is Doctrine and covenants, sections 81 through 83, where much is given, much is required. [00:55:03] Speaker B: Oh, yeah, Some good stuff there. All right. Until next week. [00:55:07] Speaker A: See ya, Sam.