[00:00:00] Speaker A: Foreign.
Welcome to the weekly Deep Dive podcast on the Add On Education Network. The podcast where we explore the weekly Come follow me discussion and try to add a little insight and unique perspective.
I am your host, Jason Lloyd, here in the studio with Gulliver's Travels himself, Nate the Great Piper.
[00:00:31] Speaker B: Am I a giant or something?
[00:00:33] Speaker A: You spin all over the place.
[00:00:34] Speaker B: Oh, but does Gulliver really actually travel that much? Or doesn't he just get washed up on shore with a bunch of, like, people, like, thousand times smaller than he is?
[00:00:43] Speaker A: Is that a story?
I don't know that he's necessarily a giant. Right. He just finds this. This. This land of little people.
I don't know.
[00:00:53] Speaker B: I'll take it. What's up?
[00:00:54] Speaker A: It's good to have you back, Nate. It's good to be back.
[00:00:57] Speaker B: It's good to be back. I have been gone, but I.
Prodigal son has come home.
[00:01:01] Speaker A: The prodigal son has returned. And, boy, are we happy to have you. Hopefully.
Hopefully it goes a little smoother now that you're back.
[00:01:09] Speaker B: How did it go last week?
[00:01:11] Speaker A: You know, I don't know. We'll leave that up to the listeners to Decide.
[00:01:17] Speaker B:
[email protected] Let me know. Just title it to Nate, and then you can tell me if Jason was good or not.
Just tell them
[email protected].
[00:01:30] Speaker A: Just tell them how crappy it is and how happy we are to have Nate back.
[00:01:34] Speaker B: What are we talking about today, buddy?
[00:01:36] Speaker A: All right. This week, we're diving into doctrine and covenants 67, 70. And a lot of this deals with the publication of Doctrine and Covenants.
So they're getting ready to publish Doctrine and Covenants.
And before they do, there's hesitation among some of the apostles, some of the elders, they're saying, you know what?
This might not be our best work. Maybe we don't want to publish this.
They didn't think that Joseph Smith's revelations were super fantastic.
He addresses this in doctrine covenant 67. In the revelation, the Lord says, verse 5, you, eyes have been upon my servant Joseph Smith Jr. And his language you have known, and his imperfections you have known, and you have sought in your hearts knowledge that you might express. Beyond his language, this you also know.
So the idea here is they are hesitant to publish the Book of Commandments because they don't think Joseph is very articulate and that his revelations are very articulate. And the Lord kind of reveals revelations based on our understanding, our capacity, and our language.
So before we dive too much further down, that Road, though, I want to do a little bit of a sketch on William E. McClellan because he plays kind of a significant role in this part.
He's one of the original 12 apostles at this time, very articulate, and he's actually influenced the church even today, oddly enough, because he left the church very vocal against the church, in fact. So we talked about him last week while you were gone, Nate. He's. He is one that.
He kept journals very, very well. He documented everything. He was a teacher. He had very great penmanship, and he wrote down all of this with the church, without the church. So he gives us a pretty interesting glimpse into early church history.
But we talked about how he was convinced Joseph Smith was a prophet last week because he had five questions that he wanted the Lord to answer for him. And then he came to Joseph Smith and said, I would like to know the Lord's will concerning me. And in the Revelation Doctrine and Covenants 66, the Lord answered all five questions that he hadn't even revealed to Joseph Smith. So he had a pretty solid testimony of Joseph Smith. But when he left the church in 1838, Joseph Smith, kind of boy. This is going to be my next tuberculosis here. Villainified, vilified.
Made him look a little bit villainous.
[00:04:20] Speaker B: Vilified.
[00:04:21] Speaker A: He vilified McClellan in some of the writings there, and it rubbed him the wrong way.
So when Joseph Smith got arrested, the story goes, when Joseph Smith was in prison, McClellan went to the guard and asked permission from the guard to beat the prisoner if he could beat Joseph Smith.
So the guard went to Joseph Smith and told him the request. And Joseph Smith said, I'm fine with it if you take the irons off me. Let's do it.
So the guard went back to McClellan and said, you can do it if I can take the irons off. He said, I'll do it if you give me a club.
So he went back to Joseph Smith and said.
He said, he'll do it if I give him a club. Joseph Smith said, I'm down with it. The guard's like, no, we're not going to go this far.
And so McClellan went back, and the story goes that he robbed Joseph Smith, went to his house, took some of his stuff, went through his stables and whatnot. But they kind of had a falling away, a falling apart. But this is long before the falling apart happened. But because he had such a big falling apart and was very anti.
Was very vocal about his sentiments, there was this idea that there was something in his writings that Would be very embarrassing for the church.
He had a journal, and in his writings he referenced this book that he was keeping this journal. And I think he was actually trying to publish this book, but nobody knew where it was. It wasn't in the common knowledge, but they knew it existed. And because they knew it existed and because they knew that he had such a strong falling out and harsh opinions with the church.
This is where mark hoffman comes into play.
Mark hoffman makes up this story that he has the journal of mcclellan, this notebook that everybody's looking for, this missing notebook.
And hoffman eventually goes to prison for killing two people with pipe bombs.
And the reason why he's killing people with the pipe bombs is to keep it secret and hidden. The that he really doesn't have the papers, that it doesn't exist. It's all just this ploy, this made up thing that he's trying to get some money from. So it's interesting that mcclellan plays this role even down into today in our history. Right now, he's an interesting character.
But they did find this journal, I want to say 2009. I could be wrong on the dates, but somebody did come forward with the journal and a collector bought it. It might be in the church hands, but going to this journal, you would think it would be very negative. But there are some interesting things here I wanted to kind of pull out While we had the opportunity to talk about this mcclellan, give you an idea of his character and why this is going to be significant with questioning doctrine and covenants and whether or not it should be published.
So in the notebook, first off, it's described as being filled from binding the page edges with fine and clear handwriting of a teacher of penmanship. So he was a very good writer, Although he was critical of the church. There's a few things that he said in here. This is why I said, it looks like he was trying to make this notebook an actual book. Because he addresses the readers rather than just making an entry in the journal. And he asks them, how would you know if the three witnesses are telling the truth or lying?
And then he relates the story that kind of convinced him to try to say, this is how I know that they were telling the truth. He says, and I'll just quote from the journal at this point. I said to them, well, first off, he runs into oliver cowdery and David whitmer, who are in danger from a mob that's chasing him. And as he comes into contact with them, he says, I said to them, brethren, I have never seen an open vision in my life. But you men say you have and therefore you positively know.
Now you know that our lives are in danger every hour if the mob can only catch us. Tell me, in the fear of God, is the Book of Mormon true?
Cowdery looked at me with solemnity depicted in his face and said, brother William, God sent his holy angel to declare the truth of the translation to us. And therefore we know.
And though the mob kill us, yet we must die declaring its truth.
And then David said, oliver has told you the solemn truth, for we could not be deceived. I most truly declare to you its truth.
And then he says, said I boys, I believe you. I can see no object for you to tell me falsehood now when our lives are endangered.
So for him, even at this point where he's very anti vocal. Well, I can't say anti vocal. He's very vocal about being anti the church. Yet he says, for this reason I was convinced and remain convinced even though he had hard feelings, even though he had a falling out. It's interesting to see his perspective. This notebook that Hoffman kind of toked up to be very against the church ended up, yeah, it had some interesting flavor and some interesting takes against it, but still it had some very interesting points of view and explanation for why he still believed, even being on the other side of the church. So it was interesting.
And I don't want to go down this too long, but McClellan taught high school in 1834. Joseph Smith was one of his students. So Joseph Smith is a little bit older here. 1834. Right. Trying to learn and make up for miseducation.
I love the way McClellan describes Joseph Smith as a student. He says, I learned the strength of his mind as to the study and principle of science and hearsay, that he had one of the strongest and well balanced, penetrating and retentive minds of any man with whom I have formed an acquaintance.
I just love that description of Joseph smith coming from McClellan. And McClellan is very articulate. One of the historians talking about this journal says, I don't think we've had too many individuals who write about the LDS church from a former member standpoint that write so articulately. His grammar and his way of expressing himself in his journal is rather remarkable for its time.
So here's where that comes into play.
He is one of the ones who is looking at the Book of Doctrine and Covenants now. Think of him as a teacher, the teacher of penmanship, a teacher of grammar, a high school teacher.
And looking at this uneducated boy, this is 1831. This is even three years before he goes to attempt to educate Joseph Smith. And he's kind of wincing at the Revelations, saying, maybe we shouldn't lead with that. If we want to bring people to the church, maybe this isn't our best foot forward. Maybe we, we should clean these revelations up or have somebody else kind of receive these revelations and put this out to the world. So that's what the Lord's talking about.
And the Lord lays down a challenge. This is one of the coolest things. 67.
He says, this is the Lord now in verse 6, now seek ye out the book of commandments, even the least that is among them, and appoint him that is the most wise among you. So in other words, find the crappiest revelation you can in this book of Commandments, what you think is the shoddiest written.
And now appoint one of you that's the best, the most articulate, the greatest penmanship, the learned, educated person. And of course, this is going to be McClellan, right? And he says, or if there be any among you that shall be, that shall make one like unto it, then you are justified in saying that you do not know that they are true. But if you cannot make one unto it, you are under condemnation if you do not bear record that they are true.
So there is the Lord. Okay, if you are hesitant about publishing these, if you are embarrassed with my word and you are not sure if they are true or not, then I have a challenge for you. And it is not the pray about it challenge that we read Moroni's Promise three through five, right? It is not just pray about it and see if it is true. It is okay, recreate it. Write your own revelation. Then you will know if it is true or not.
It is kind of an interesting way of doing it, right?
Could you imagine if missionaries are going out there and like, hey, if you are not sure the Book of Mormon is true, go out and write your own Book of Mormon. And then I am pretty sure you will be convinced one way or the other.
So describing how this went, this is what it says. William E. McClellan accepted the offer and in the spirit of presumption, undertook to imitate the revelations of the Lord. His effort to produce a revelation was witnessed with great interest by the elders. And when they became aware of his complete failure, all doubt concerning the revelations of God vanished and they signed their willingness to testify to the truth and the book was published.
[00:13:23] Speaker B: There's one way to solve that, I guess.
[00:13:26] Speaker A: Agreement that's interesting.
And Doctrine and Covenants, we've seen some interesting things here. We look at it and we've pointed out metonymy or these Janus parallels or things that clearly identify that the Lord is the one addressing it. But at the same time, what they saw was this weakness or how Joseph Smith was speaking.
And the Lord speaks to us according to our understanding, our levels. I think we've had this conversation before as we've talked about the words the Lord uses or how he communicates with us. Maybe it's not 100%, but it's what we understand to get us to where we need to be.
And maybe there's some different levels to that.
So in talking about how the Lord speaks to our understanding, I just wanted to bring maybe one example of that, if that's all right.
Talking about the name of Lucifer and where that came from. And I don't know if we've covered that in this podcast. I don't think we've talked about it. But the name Lucifer, it's a name that really doesn't quite exist, at least the way we think it does.
It shows up once in the Old Testament in Isaiah, chapter 14, and it's a mistranslation. So in the Hebrew it says so in the English, it says, lucifer, how art thou fallen, Thou son of the morning, Right? And he's talking about how he's falling down to the pits and he wanted to make his throne higher and ascend up into the heavens, but now he's just this. This fallen, disgraced person.
But in there, the Hebrew says hallel ben Shachar. And Ben means son of. Shachar means morning. So the morning star, Hallel is a proper noun, but it comes from a verb, Hallelujah. Hallelujah means praise Jehovah. So the verb means to praise Jehovah. But Isaiah is taking a verb and making it into a proper noun.
And so the translators weren't quite sure how to translate that. I mean, you could translate it as if it means praise. Maybe it means proud, boastful one, arrogant. Oh, arrogant, proud. The one who praises himself, if you will, in this noun form, son of the morning. But because they weren't sure how to translate it, they looked at son of the morning, and you think, oh, morning star. They're talking about Venus, the light bearer.
So the Greek translators took hallel and they translated it as this phosphorus, or light bearer. And phosphorus from Greek to Latin, phos is light, like phosphorus, right? And luz is light in the Latin. So lus and feros Bear Lucifer becomes this Latin translation from the Greek, from the Hebrew.
So the word Lucifer is born out of something that never even had that context or meaning to begin with.
And now today you say Lucifer, and instantly we know, or at least we're all on the same page about who we're talking about or what this refers to. Even though in the Latin New Testament, Lucifer is actually used as a reference to a title of Christ, as Christ is the day dawn, the morning star, the one that brings light into our hearts. And it's used Lucifer. In the Latin New Testament, you see it as a title of Christ, which is just kind of weird and mind blowing, right?
But today, when the Lord speaks to us, it wouldn't make if he had to sit down and explain every little thing and tell us, well, you're wrong here, then the meaning is missed, right? He wants to say something and communicate. He communicates to our level, to our understanding, whether the symbol is entirely accurate or that's the symbol that's going to convey exactly what we understand. And I think that's what was going on here in Doctrine and Covenants. The Lord was speaking through Joseph Smith in a way familiar with Joseph Smith. And these revelations are flavored Joseph Smith because of that. So I think it's interesting how the Lord speaks to us today.
All right, Next up, verse 10, one of my favorite verses of all of Doctrine and Covenants.
And again, verily I say unto you that it is your privilege and a promise. So not just your privilege, but this is a promise from the Lord I give unto you that have been ordained unto this ministry, that inasmuch as you strip yourselves from jealousies and fears and humble yourselves before me, for you are not sufficiently humble, the veil shall be rent. And you shall see me and know that I am.
This is one of the greatest promises ever.
This is your privilege and a promise I give to you that if you do these things, the veil will be rent. And you shall see me and know that I am not with the carnal, neither the natural, but with the spiritual. For no man has seen God at any time in the flesh except quickened by the Spirit of God.
I don't care how I see God. Whether it's a vision or I don't know, it just.
That would be an amazing experience to have.
I guess it depends on what you were doing at the time he shows up.
[00:18:37] Speaker B: For me, it'd be scary.
I'm trying to make it so that I live better, so that it won't be scary if. Or that it wouldn't be scary, Jason.
[00:18:47] Speaker A: Well, maybe that's why he says he'd hold off until. Until we're ready. Right? This idea, if you strip yourselves from your jealousies and fear and fears, the.
[00:18:58] Speaker B: Fear part of it's. That's the one for me.
[00:19:00] Speaker A: Well, that goes back to Chronicles of Narnia. Right. You ready? The old lion, Witch in the Wardrobe.
[00:19:05] Speaker B: I definitely watched both the cartoon version from the 70s that had the just creepiest animation and the live action one from the 80s, maybe early 90s.
[00:19:16] Speaker A: Well, they even done a third one.
[00:19:17] Speaker B: Now they did the other ones that. But those ones, those two cgi, man.
[00:19:22] Speaker A: It seemed like they were going somewhere and it just didn't hit.
[00:19:25] Speaker B: Oh, no, they did not. They did not stick the dismount, as they say.
[00:19:29] Speaker A: No, no, they did not land.
[00:19:31] Speaker B: That old cartoon one's terrifying.
[00:19:33] Speaker A: Yeah, dude.
[00:19:34] Speaker B: When they're. When they're marching Aslan up to the. To the altar. Oh my gosh.
[00:19:39] Speaker A: You got every little goon out there.
[00:19:41] Speaker B: Yeah, the creepy goons out there running around celebrating and shave him. And the girls are back there watching it and they're freaking out, but they have to be quiet. It was terrifying.
70s movies. I know this is kind of a detour, but dude, 70s movies, the art is so like a signature thing from that era and it's really amazing. And the music from its amazing, but like, it doesn't age.
I mean, I don't know, maybe it's not that it doesn't age well, but I mean, it definitely has like a very 70s thing feel to it. Did you ever watch the Hobbit? Yeah, like the old cartoon, huh? Super dope. But again, if you go back and look at the animation of that, you're like, oh, yeah, this was very much a thing. And the music is.
[00:20:20] Speaker A: The music was incredible.
[00:20:21] Speaker B: Gorgeous. And it's suit, but it's kind of like Dallas and creepy and whatever, you know, I mean, like there's there's a. There's. There's kind of a cool dark overtone to it that's very somber, I guess. Maybe not dark, but like for a very heavy thing to it anyways.
[00:20:35] Speaker A: But it kind of spills over into the Jim Henson era, right? You have those original. Sure, but some scary stuff.
[00:20:41] Speaker B: Yeah, the Jim Henson stuff, like the early stuff was scary. But you want to know what I actually.
You don't want to know what it spilled over to that I'm kind of catching back up again. Is the Don Bluth like.
Bluth. Don Bluth, Yeah. Don Bluth movies, like Land Before Time.
The Secret of Nim.
All dogs go to heaven. You know, I mean, it's like it actually. It's funny because I feel like it morphed more into that, which also.
I can't believe parents in the 80s were letting their kids watch those movies. Those movies are terrifying as well. But anyways, we digress. So, yes, I have seen the lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe. I have. I do know of what's going on with the. With the Chronicles of Narnia, as they say.
[00:21:23] Speaker A: I just remember because Aslan was obviously a symbol for Christ, right? And I remember how they described being in the presence of Aslan, because some people, they just loved that the idea excited them. They wanted to be there. They thrived off it. And then for other people, it made them want to shrink, hide, or kind of run away. And the way they portray it or explain it, describe it, I don't know. That is what you reminded me of as you were talking about, that. This idea of fear. As we overcome that fear, as we prepare ourselves, as we become humble to where it would be a joyous occasion.
We look forward to it. I think that is what the Lord is waiting for, to be able to have that veil removed and to be able to enjoy his presence.
And it is an incredible experience.
[00:22:12] Speaker B: Sweet.
[00:22:13] Speaker A: All right, I am going to switch over to doctrine and covenant 68. 68 covers a couple of interesting promises.
Really, really cool. In verse three, it says, and this is the ensample unto them that they shall speak as they are moved upon by the Holy Ghost. And whatsoever they shall speak when moved upon by the Holy Spirit or the Holy Ghost shall be scripture, shall be the will of the Lord, shall be the mind of the Lord, shall be the word of the Lord, shall be the voice of the Lord, and the power of God unto salvation.
But this is the promise of the Lord unto you, O ye my servants. Wherefore be of good cheer and do not fear, for I am the Lord, or excuse me, for I, the Lord, am with you and will stand by you.
And I think that conclusion is what makes that promise work. Right. I am the Lord, and I am with you and will stand by you. When he says stand by you, I think what he's saying here is, I will stand by what you say.
Right.
[00:23:16] Speaker B: I will sustain you.
[00:23:18] Speaker A: Exactly.
[00:23:19] Speaker B: Yeah. I will.
[00:23:21] Speaker A: Not a word shall fall to the floor without being fulfilled.
[00:23:25] Speaker B: I like it.
[00:23:28] Speaker A: And yeah, it's a good thought.
[00:23:31] Speaker B: It's interesting because that's where a lot of. Though I feel like that's where a lot of Controversy sometimes can kind of creep in, though, right? Like, when is something being spoken as a prophet or prophetically versus when is it just being, you know, not pontificated, but, you know, like, when is it just being.
[00:23:51] Speaker A: How do they know they're moved upon by the spirit? Or you're just speaking like. Like Joseph Smith, right? When. When I said. I. When the pro. She said, what was he studying? German. And the couple from Wisconsin visited them, and. And he's like, a prophet is only a prophet when speaking as a prophet. So that's a good question. How do you know when a prophet is, like you said, pontificating? Because Joseph Smith says, this makes good sense to me and explains it like this in a very logical, reasonable way. But it's Joseph Smith.
Is he giving us a revelation or is he just explaining what makes sense in his mind?
And I think we almost have to rely on the Spirit ourselves to be able to understand that to some level.
And. And that sounds like a cop out.
[00:24:32] Speaker B: I also think that it's. That it's on purpose, though, and it's healthy for us to have to kind of talk through and reason through things and think through things on our own. Right. You know, and I can only imagine, I mean, how much more do you learn or take away from a lesson when you've had the chance to on your own, sometimes thinking out loud, really comb through something and talk through it.
And you, like, parse it out a little bit and throw a theory out there and then test that theory. And, you know, so it's. I. I get.
I think. I think it's fully understandable how that can be something that could hang up a lot of people, right? When you go in here, you know, some of the things Brigham Young would say about, you know, Martians or whatever, you know, I mean, like, all of the fun stuff, right? All of the stuff that, you know, we just get pelted with on a daily basis on a mission, right?
And then you go, okay, think, though, of how many times, like, even you and I will, like, look at something and we'll throw out some ideas on it. And again, like, I. I totally feel inspired while you and I are chatting about these things, whether or not. Whether or not we're even.
You know, obviously we're not prophesying or anything, but you know what I mean? I'm saying it's like, it's. It's. There's something so healthy about out loud, going, here's. Here's a concept. And. And could it mean this? And could it mean this. And it, and maybe it means this. And it would be, it's interesting to think of it like this, you know, and, but so much of that can then be taken like, oh, oh, that's just, that's just false prophecy. And you're just like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Like, you can have the spirit, and maybe the spirit isn't even giving you the answers, right? It's just going, like, keep going, keep going. Keep following that, Keep following that lane of thought or whatever. Right. And I just, again, I, I, I think that I've, over the years at least, started being a lot less critical of the, Some of the crazy things that, you know, Brigham Young specifically said or whoever said. Right. Because you just go, okay, I understand that it's human nature to be in a lane trying to, like, think through something and saying things that are later, like, no, no, no, no, no, that's not right. But keep going, you know, keep trying to figure this out.
[00:26:54] Speaker A: And also, like, what if you feel like you're motivated, inspired by the spirit to say something and you start. But then you kind of get carried away in the moment and you start running your mouth on things that, you know, you've got a little bit of.
[00:27:06] Speaker B: Which is more likely what we probably do. Back to our example of you and I, I'm sure, I'm sure we always probably start in a healthy place, and then, and then we just start running our mouths. So.
[00:27:15] Speaker A: Yeah, but from a prophet standpoint, as I look particularly at the Old Testament and I look at the prophets speak when they're speaking in the name of the Lord, they make it clear when they say, thus saith the Lord, or when we look at here like these revelations, I am Alpha and Omega.
If they are putting. And maybe this goes back to that episode we did where we are talking about speaking in the Lord's name and being authorized to speak in the Lord's name. And when you are not authorized, are you taking it in vain? And be careful about what we are speaking in the name of Jesus Christ, because are we authorized to be saying that for him? Or is that what is scripture when they're moved upon and say, thus saith the Lord, repent.
If it's prefaced with that introduction, this isn't me anymore. This is the Lord.
Good thoughts, good question.
I like it. So going a little bit further here in doctrine and covenants 68, it's the idea that people that are descendants of Aaron, literal descendants of Aaron, have a legal right to preside over the Aaronic priesthood.
And we know today that in Israel, a lot of times, if you have the last name Cohen, Cohen means priest in Hebrew. And they preserve that line, they preserve that heritage, and they would try to keep it in some sense or another. There are people that do claim to be descendants of Aaron.
Why are they not called to lead the church as far as the Aaronic priesthood, why do we still have a general bishopric in the church that is set apart by the first presidency? And would there be a difference or would we ever see a shift to the Aaronic priesthood being run by literal descendants of Aaron outside of where we are at today?
And I have heard some people bring this up and say, well, the sacrifices that they are offering in Israel, do those count for anything? Or if a priest over there does it, is he officiating in the priesthood? Because he does have that birthright.
And I think these verses offer a little bit of clarification to that, because they say, let's see, let's dive into this a little bit.
Verse 14.
There remain hereafter in the due time of the Lord, other bishops to be set apart of the church to minister even according to the First.
Wherefore they shall be high priests who are worthy, for they shall be appointed by the first presidency of the Melchizedek priesthood, except they be literal descendants of Aaron. So that part right there, I think makes people question a little bit. Wait, except they be literal descendants, then they're good, right? They don't have to have that. But verse 16, I think offers some clarity. And if they be literal descendants of Aaron, they have a legal right to the bishopric if they are the firstborn among the sons of Aaron. For the firstborn holds the right of the priesthood over this priesthood and the keys and the authority of the same. But then it says, no man has a legal right to this office to hold the keys of this priesthood, except he be a literal descendant and the firstborn of Aaron. But as a high priest of the Melchizedek priesthood, has authority to officiate in all the lesser offices, he may officiate in the office of bishop when no literal descendant of Aaron can be found, provided he is called and set and ordained under the power under the hands of the first presidency of the Melchizedek priesthood. But here's where the clarity, I think, comes. And a literal descendant of Aaron also must be designated by this presidency and found worthy and anointed and. And ordained under the hands of this presidency.
[00:30:50] Speaker B: So then why even. Why even. Why even have all that other stuff?
[00:30:53] Speaker A: Yeah. Otherwise they are not legally authorized to officiate in their priesthood.
[00:30:58] Speaker B: I was going to say, my dad's name is Aaron and I am the oldest.
[00:31:01] Speaker A: There you go. You are a descendant of Aaron and I am the oldest.
[00:31:05] Speaker B: I am the firstborn. How about that?
[00:31:07] Speaker A: Yes. And I think there is a story of somebody that did come up to a bishop at one point and said, hey, I need to be called into the presiding Bishop because I am a descendant of Aaron, I am a firstborn. I have all of this, and that's my right. And you say, okay, even if you are, even if what you say is true and you can prove it, you still have to be set apart by the First Presidency. That is still a decision over those who are running the church.
[00:31:31] Speaker B: For real, though, why even have that in there?
[00:31:32] Speaker A: I don't know. It is kind of an interesting little deal. I think it is.
When the Lord confers the priesthood to Aaron and go back, it is not that all of a sudden Aaron has this priesthood forever. It's because Moses lays his hand and confers that. It's still Moses presiding over the Melchizedek priesthood that is giving him this. But they say, this shall be to your seed forever. And so this idea that the Lord remembers his promise, even way back, thousands of years in the Old Testament, it's still there. He's still holding true. And it's a good question. Why do they even have that?
I think it's significant in the same sense that Abraham's promise is still significant to us today.
This idea that we are descendants of Abraham. And the Lord will bless us with the blessings of Abraham and this idea of Ephraim and the blessings that are associated with him, that these covenants are long standing and that God does not forget, although we might forget. He will not forget, and he will still hold that right out.
He will still remember his people no matter what. And there might come a point in time where we see that, but if it does happen, it will happen under the direction of those who preside over his church and hold all those keys to make it happen. It is not just going to be some rogue group of priests that all of a sudden have the priesthood. They have the legal right. They can be born to it, but they still have to officiate under the direction of the First Presidency.
[00:33:02] Speaker B: Cool. Like it.
[00:33:03] Speaker A: Okay, next up, as we're getting close to wrapping this up, it talks about the responsibility of parents to educate their kids.
[00:33:12] Speaker B: Oh, here we go. You love this.
[00:33:14] Speaker A: Do I?
[00:33:16] Speaker B: You're the education man. You're the education. You're. I'M like the go live your life, man. And you're like the go get smart, man.
[00:33:25] Speaker A: It says, for this shall be a law unto the inhabitants of Zion or in any of her stakes which are organized, and their children shall be baptized for the remission of their sins when 8 years old and receive the laying on of hands.
And they shall teach their children to pray and to walk uprightly before the Lord. And the inhabitants of Zion shall observe the Sabbath day and keep it holy.
And it says, let's see.
And again, verse 25. And again. Inasmuch as parents have children in Zion or in any of the stakes which are organized that teach them not to understand the doctrine of repentance, faith in Christ the Son of the living God, and of baptism and the gift of the Holy Ghost by the laying on of hands when eight years old, the sin be upon the head of the parents, for this shall be the law.
So kids, they kind of get a free pass for up until 8, but it's not entirely a free pass, right?
I mean, whatever they do becomes the responsibility of the parents. If your kid goes out and does something terrible when he's five, six, whatever, it's because the parent wasn't keeping an eye on them or watching them or teaching them or doing what they could to educate them.
And, you know, it makes sense. You're trying to make sure the kids get some wings under their, some air under their wings, make sure they understand things before they're held personally accountable. Give us a chance to kind of figure things out. But is eight too young? Should we be waiting till kids have full responsibility till they turn 16, 18, 21? I mean, what, what age do kids need to start being accountable for their own decisions? And are parents off the hook?
Is 8 too early or is 8 too late? Because in some churches you're baptizing the day they're born because you don't want them to go without being baptized and dying. What are your thoughts, Nate?
[00:35:21] Speaker B: Eight works.
[00:35:22] Speaker A: Eight works.
[00:35:26] Speaker B: Clearly, infants don't work because they don't know, because it defeats the whole purpose of being baptized.
I definitely have children that are under the age of eight that are very aware of the knucklehead moves that they're pulling all the time and how they're just like punking each other all the time.
But then I also have a 9 year old or almost 9 year old who also is still just learning how to act. So, you know what I mean? Like, I think that, I think that eight works. I think, and not only that too, but Like, I think that, I also think that as a parent who I'm sure, I mean, I know I blow it all the time. I also think that at a certain point, like, yeah, if you're out there, if you're out there doing your best, I think that whatever, you know what I mean, that what happens, happens and that God will be understanding.
[00:36:19] Speaker A: Yeah. And I look at, I think if ate and baptism, we almost put the wrong emphasis on this idea of accountability in that baptism wipes away all your sins. You're pure, you're free, you're clean. And now it's all on you to follow this line and be perfect. And they're like, well, wait a second, why can't I wait to make that choice until I fully understand everything, until I fully understand all things that I'm doing and I perfectly understand this relationship and I've figured out and I'm turning away from all my knuckleheadedness, as you put it, why can't I just get baptized when 20 or 30 or 50? The thing is, I don't think we ever reached that point in our life if we were waiting up until we had a full understanding of everything to do it. And that's the symbolism of baptism. When you're going under the water, it symbolizes death. And this idea that you'll be put in the ground and resurrected, this covenant that you're making is a covenant that when you die and you be raised back up from the ground, it is this future state, this idea, this fulfillment, this cleanliness isn't necessarily that you're being washed away free by magic, water and baptism. It's that when you resurrect, you will be spotless. The Lord will cleanse you at that point down the road. But at this point on, you are accountable. You are choosing to follow the Lord and you are going to do your best to correct your decisions and own up to what you are doing rather than just putting it on your parents. And in that sense, I think ape is a. There's a perfect time.
[00:37:51] Speaker B: I also think that also even with that said, that that that still maybe not also the only emphasis that we should be emphasizing. I know that like when I baptized Ruby last year at about this time when I was confirming her and you know, giving her the Holy Ghost, like I felt overwhelmingly compelled to be like, this isn't even about your self worth or your sins or whatever. It's like the most important thing that we're doing today is giving you the Holy Ghost so that you on your own as you just try to figure out, this life will at least have a companion with you when, when we're not there. Right? And that, and that. Even focusing on, even. I'm totally with you. Like, even focusing on like the. Well, now, now you're spotless. It's just like, yeah, but you're also a human being. And by the time we get home, you're probably gonna punch your brother. You know what I mean? You see what I mean, though? It's like, it's like I, I know that there, there is, there just needs to be balance obviously between, you know, some guilt is healthy guilt, some guilt is destructive guilt. You know what I mean? It's like, there's, there's. Sometimes I feel like maybe a push to go too far to the extremes of like, man, like, every mistake you make, you should think of like blood pouring out of the pores of Jesus. And you should just feel like, like inside that you're being destroyed. You're like, man, I just, you know, I don't know, flipped off the dude next to me in the car. Like, I felt bad about it and you know what I mean, it's just like, no, no, no, you haven't felt bad enough about it, right?
And then, and then there's also sometimes the extreme the other way, which is we should never feel any guilt. We should never feel any shame. We should never, you know, like, we're all imperfect, but it doesn't matter. But like, stop, stop feeling, like, stop feeling any guilt or stop feeling any shame or whatever it is. Like, just like, God wouldn't want you to do that. And I'm like, well, I think that we, I think it kind of comes out somewhere in the middle of those two things, right? Like, no, you can't, you, you can't tell somebody that because they made a mistake that it's over for them or that they should have these weird lingering, you know what I mean? Self worth issues for the rest of their life and things like that. You're like, no, no, no, no, no. You're absolutely still a child of God. Like, like people make mistakes, you know, do what you can, fix it and keep moving on. And you're gonna need to fix it again. And at the same time, like, yeah, but when you're doing something you shouldn't be doing, like, like feeling guilt is a very healthy reminder of like, hey, you're doing something you're not supposed to be doing. Like, let's not. I just don't think that we, I don't think we need to try to like, move too far to either of those extremes, right? And then with the baptism thing, again with kids and stuff like that, I'm like, again, like when we were younger, so much of like the lessons we would get and stuff in Sunday school, and I would just be like, hey, you, like, you got to get baptized so that all your sins can go away. You're like, well, to this point, I don't have any sins, supposedly. You know what I mean? Like, yeah, supposedly I don't have any sins at this point. So this is, this is. If that's what this is for, then that was kind of not needed, right?
[00:41:15] Speaker A: Yeah, it was unnecessary.
[00:41:16] Speaker B: It was completely unnecessary.
[00:41:17] Speaker A: Christ atones for anyone who dies before they're baptized.
[00:41:20] Speaker B: That's my point. Like, supposedly if we're sinless before then that this was.
That wasn't important.
And then you go, but then you go, okay, well then what are we doing this for? Right?
[00:41:30] Speaker A: Yeah, I'm sorry. I just had in my mind, you know how so many times you have the baptism talk and they take the dirty penny and they dunk it in the water.
I just can't help but thinking as an eight year old, if I were back again, thinking as I am now, like, how in the heck did that penny get that dirty between.
[00:41:47] Speaker B: Oh, yeah, okay. That's true.
[00:41:49] Speaker A: What'd you do, kid? What'd you do? No, I'm sorry, my mom.
[00:41:52] Speaker B: No, I'm with you though. I guess I'm just saying, like, I.
One of the things that I do feel like we've done a very good job culturally, as I'm trying to compliment us in general, at least from what I've seen. So maybe this is just my own experience, but it has been nice. I feel like we've started to see more and more that ordinance. Focus more on, hey, this is a great chance for you to know that if you do the best you can and you repent and you do. You know what I mean? Just continually just try to be better and do better. Better than your promise that you can have the Holy Ghost with you, that will help you, but not only just help you make right decisions because you're still going to blow it, but to like help comfort you when you're sad, to help, you know, it's like, I just feel like I'm happy that so much more focus around that ordinance has been on the positives of.
Not like, hey, now you're clean. You're just like, come on, man. Like, yeah, that's. Yeah, yeah, that is. That's right. That's part of it. But like, but how awesome is it instead to go like, hey, now it. Even this young of an age, you can start learning how to find truth versus false. You know, like, even at eight years old, you're. You've now been given the tools to start learning how to decipher good and evil without your parents having to tell you this, right? So back to the original question.
I think eight's. I think eight's fine. I think it's great.
[00:43:19] Speaker A: I think it's fantastic.
[00:43:20] Speaker B: I think it's. I'm just saying it's like, that makes sense to me on more than just the idea of like, well, do they. Do they understand the responsibility they're taking on them at that time? No. No, they don't. But you want to know what?
So do adults that are converting to the. You know, I mean, it's like, do.
[00:43:36] Speaker A: You ever fully understand my point? Or this is. This is more like a seat at the game, right? This is the starting, the gate, the beginning that I am willing to learn. I am willing to start this.
[00:43:48] Speaker B: And here are the best possible tools with you. A member of the Godhead can help you, comfort you, advise you. You know what I mean? Inspire you. Like, to me, that's the whole thing. I'm just like, yeah, before that, before 8. I'm sure, you know, most kids really wouldn't understand what's going on. Eight years old, I have conversations with my daughter and go, hey, let's talk about why lying doesn't work.
But not even just like, you know, and, you know, my thoughts on this, it's not like, well, it's because it makes Jesus sad. No, that's not the conversation I have with her. It's going, hey, holy cow. That's something that we, it's. It, it's. Sometimes we over exaggerate, sometimes we do these things. It doesn't make us a bad person. But what it does do is it starts to chip away at our integrity. Like, it starts to chip away. And so when your brother comes in and says, ruby punched me, and you come out and say, no, no, no, no, no, no, he punched me first.
I'm sorry. Like, Cal doesn't lie to me about things, therefore I'm gonna have to kind of, you know, side with him on this side with him. And she's. But the thing is, like, she's. She gets it.
The whole point is, then you can go. And also, now that you've been baptized and received the gift of the Holy Ghost, here's What's really great about that is that if you're in a situation where you're thinking about lying or if you're in a situation where whatever you have the tools given to you, even at this young of age to like, to have a very strong impression, and if you can learn how to listen to those impressions, you can trust your gut more than you can trust whatever you see on the news or whatever you read on social media. You know what I mean? Or whatever you're being told, whatever. Like, at 8 years old, you can start learning how to recognize when you're being inspired by God and. And. And then with that, with those tools, have a better life, you know, and make better decisions and. And, you know, and feel guilt when it is necessary and it's healthy and. And do things so that you don't have to, you know, continue feeling like. So that's. Yeah, I. I think that. I think that 8 years old, there's a competency there that absolutely works to have that part of the conversation.
Am I. Am I totally off here? Have I gone. Have I gone totally off?
[00:46:03] Speaker A: No, no, no, it's perfect.
And I think it also stresses to the parents the importance, like, the sins are upon you if you're not educating your kid by the time they're eight. Like, we can't be waiting until they're old enough to understand, to start teaching them.
These are formative years. This is where they're starting to.
You have to teach them how to think, to figure things out, to reason, to understand what's important, what's not. You can't wait till they're old enough to all of a sudden decide and say, okay, now let me try to explain now that you understand, because what happened in all those formative years that you missed out on that, that they needed that from you, and you let them.
[00:46:40] Speaker B: And you. You made a great point, too, just now when you were saying it, though, that I totally agree with. And this still comes back to the idea of receiving the gift of the Holy Ghost. Is that, like, I don't. I. Ruby didn't come out with a handbook. You know what I mean? She didn't come out with a user manual. I've. I'm trying to figure. Me and my wife are trying to figure this out. Right. Of how to do it. Because what you just said. Yeah. There is an humongous pressure on parents to, quote, unquote, quote, not screw their kids up before. You know what I mean?
[00:47:10] Speaker A: Before.
[00:47:10] Speaker B: Before they know how to do it, which is. It's That's a little overwhelming if I'm being totally honest with you, because I don't know all the answers. And then it still comes back to what I have found, at least personal.
I don't know, personal solace. I found resolve. I have found personal resolve in the idea that instead of me trying to go with my kids and go, okay, this thing's right and this thing's wrong, and in this situation, that's right, and in this situation, this is wrong, and here's what to do in this situation, and here's exactly what to not do in this situation. Because one, they'll never remember that. Two, I'm not. I question my own decision making all the time anyways.
Our whole focus has been, holy Ghost, Holy Ghost, Holy Ghost, learn how to trust.
Learn how to trust those promptings that are innate. Learn how to trust. Learn your feelings. That's exactly right, is don't. Don't be afraid to go. That doesn't feel right to me. I need to resolve why that is. Right? Because the thing is, is that it's not the easy way out for parents. But, dang it, it's. It's a good way out for situations where you're like, I don't know all of the situations. I don't even know what this world will look like in 20 years from now. Right?
So instead of me trying to go, well, I. I have now the responsibility of, like, if. If. If I. If they blow it in this situation, it's because I didn't teach them that. I'm like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. That's unfair to the parents.
But what is fair, I feel like, is to go, parents, did you teach your kids how to listen to promptings? Did you show your kids examples and talk to them about examples of when you felt promptings? It's like, oh, that covers kind of everything. And yes, in certain situations, like, yeah, you can't. You can't punch your brother, whatever that is, Right? But even then, so much of it can be back to, how do you feel when that happens? Are you listening to those promptings that you're getting? Right? Because then.
Then in the future, when you're not there or a situation arises that you could have never imagined or that you might have the wrong answer to, you don't have to be held responsible for the decision that they made.
If you did what you could to go learn how to use the perfect, pure truth that you have inside you.
[00:49:33] Speaker A: I said, it's like going back to that one scripture, it's not Meet that you be commanded in all things. It's impossible. If you're, as a parent, trying to prepare your kid for every single contingency and what they should do and what they can do and what they can do, it's going to be overwhelming, and you probably.
You're going to fail.
[00:49:50] Speaker B: It's like, it's an impossible task.
[00:49:52] Speaker A: It is. But if you teach your kids. And who's. I can't remember who said this. They said, when I do good, I feel good. When I do bad, I feel bad. This is my religion. And it's just very simple idea. But if you can take a moment when they do something and ask them, how do you feel about what happened? How does that make you feel?
Or, you know, it's easy to do that and be critical at a moment when they did something that they shouldn't have and when they're angry. And that might even stoke it up and make them even more angry. But maybe what we're missing is those moments when they surprise us. When they do something, they become a little bit less selfish and they give something up or they do something nice and you're like, wow, wait, wait, wait. I just want to pause for a minute. How did that make you feel?
What is that doing?
[00:50:39] Speaker B: You don't even have to tell me. Just recognize it.
And maybe you don't feel some overwhelming goodness, but at least still just start to understand.
I completely agree with you. And it's funny because I feel like that, believe it or not, I tried to play that off as like, hey, the easy way to do it is just teach them how to, like, find the answer for themselves. And it absolves you of all things. It's funny because it's actually the harder thing to do, in my opinion. Right? It's the easy thing to do when your kid comes up and they've just thrown a temper tantrum and threw a rock through the window. It's the easy thing to do, to go, okay, now I'm gonna cuff you upside the head and I'm gonna ground you. And it's because doing that is wrong. And now go to your room. And that's it. Right? Because it takes. That's the easy thing to do because it's just there. It's in front of you, Right? The harder thing to do is, as a parent, take seven deep breaths and go, okay. How can I let them teach themselves in this situation what the wrong and right thing in that situation would be to do? Because guess what? That takes time. And that takes potentially maybe not getting the answer that you as the parent want. Maybe that, you know, I mean, it's like it comes with all of the hard possibilities, right? And I say this because I'm blowing this all the time. And in situations where it's just so easy to go, hey, that was the wrong thing. I'm having to try to learn how to go, hey, come and sit down and talk to me for a minute. Just talk to me for a minute. Do you know. Do you know what I want to talk about?
Yet, surprisingly, they do. You know what I mean? Like, yes. Cool. Talk to me then. What just happened?
Talk to me about you. Tell me what just happened inside of you. Because maybe I don't understand.
Maybe I don't understand that. That that whole scene that they just put on maybe isn't about what I thought it was.
[00:52:34] Speaker A: Maybe there's something as a parent you're missing and you didn't realize that you were about to come through and make something X when Y was actually the right solution.
[00:52:43] Speaker B: That's. That's that, Jason, that is exactly what I'm trying to say is that. Is that. That's why it's harder, is because it also puts us potentially in conflict, too. You know what I mean? It puts us in a position where we might have to also go, okay, I saw this incorrectly. Okay, now that you've explained this to me, child, thank you for helping me understand this. I totally misunderstand where I was coming from. Now, can we both agree that the reaction to that was inappropriate? Can we at least both start there and agree that the outcome of that wasn't right? Is there a place that we can make a change that both you and I feel like we were heard and understood and neither of us are getting hurt with the outcome of this. Now, life has certain consequences. I'm going to need you to mow the lawn and do some laundry because we got to pay for this window. You know, I mean, it's like, there's still so many lessons that can be caught in there.
And, dude, the thing is, I don't mean to cut you off, but it's like, I almost feel like that's how you also win people to your side, too.
Like, that's how you gain allies instead of enemies. Right? Is to. Is to. Is to be in the trenches going, here's where I was wrong in this. Even as your parent, here's where I blew this.
Can we be on the same team when it comes to this? Like, I don't want to be the person, just the Authoritarian coming down on you. I'm in here with you. I'm on your same team. You know what I mean? Like, yes, I may have 40 years of experience on you, but, dude. But who cares? Like, what does that even mean, though? You know what I mean?
[00:54:13] Speaker A: Like, who, what, from the mouth of babes. Right? Exactly. They talk about how you learn from.
[00:54:18] Speaker B: And they're going through different things than I went through and they're feeling different things and some of them are the same. But I guess. I guess as I'm thinking through this, that's kind of what's. That's making more sense. And again, and I want. And I know you're trying to jump in here, so I feel bad, but that's what. That's why I think back to the idea of. Of baptizing kids at 8.
I think it's. I think it's obviously divinely inspired, and I have because of multiple reasons. But as we kind of talk through this, it comes back to, like, that is an age that they're still humble enough and open enough and learning enough to. For you to be able to say, here are. Here are some tools. Learn how to use these tools. If it gets too extreme, I'm going to have to. I'm going to have to keep boundaries, obviously.
[00:55:05] Speaker A: Obviously.
[00:55:06] Speaker B: And I need to teach you about lines and boundaries. But it's also at an age where they are smart enough to start. I mean, dude, my children know how to manipulate the crap out of me and Heather in different ways, by the way, too. They know how to get me in a very different way than they get Heather. And we both kind of sometimes laugh when we watch them just, like walking all over the other person.
[00:55:28] Speaker A: Right.
[00:55:28] Speaker B: We're just like, whoa, how are they. How are you letting them manipulate you like that? It's like, well, they manipulate you like this. And you're like, whoa, that's right. But I guess I'm just saying is that they are also old enough and smart enough at that age to be able to have deeper conversations and to really start to recognize that. So anyways.
[00:55:43] Speaker A: No, yeah. I mean, if you can teach a chicken to play a piano, just think of what your kids are so much. They figure things out.
You gotta give them more credit than you do. And I loved what you said because it is easier said than done.
[00:55:57] Speaker B: But, oh, yeah, like, I'm just.
This is more self therapy at this point. You know what I mean? This is me trying to go, okay. So, yeah, no, I would hope that this doesn't come across as preaching at all. I'm telling you, I am the worst at this.
[00:56:10] Speaker A: No, but it's so rewarding. And you see the difference in when there are punishment. And I say punishment. Punishment is kind of a bad word for this consequences, right? Like, hey, this is what's happened. This is where we've gone wrong, and this is what we need to do to set it right. And when you're having that conversation, you're not just coming in and telling them this, this, and that, but you're hearing them and hearing what they're saying and hearing their side, one, they feel validated. But two, when they understand and you've reached this conclusion together, not because you've dictated it, but because you both see eye to eye and you say, yes, I see now that I have to make this right, and you say, okay, how about this? How does this feel? Or you're looking through this and you come up with these consequences. The mindset and attitude of a kid responding to consequences. When they have come up with those or they understand those and they agree with you, they will go through and they'll get it. They might not like it, but they understand it and they'll do it. As opposed to. If you say, do this, that's not fair.
[00:57:10] Speaker B: Because. And it's because you. Whatever. Well, can you explain? No. If I said, and this is where, again, I blow it. Go to your room, go wash the dishes, whatever, go. You know what I mean? And again, like, obviously there are certain lines that have to be enforced, like, you can't cross. But. But I. But even then, like, I'm learning more and more that I need to be way, way more relaxed on. Even where some of those lines are right. Like.
Like, you know, in my mind, uncrossable lines from four years ago, five years ago have changed even now because I'm like, oh, see, I'm glad that I learned in the past five years where I was blowing that I need to be way more relaxed here and maybe a little tighter over here, you know?
[00:57:54] Speaker A: And I'll have to say, you know, I've got a teenager now, Hannah. Love her to death. And some of my most rewarding experiences as a father from this point all the way have been those conversations with her when we're talking it out and I'm hearing her perspective or what she's saying and she's hearing mine. And then I'm not telling her, this is what it needs to be or this is how we need to do it. I'd say, okay, this is what the prophets say. Why do you think that or why is this important? Or what do you think? Or how do you think we should handle this? Or what do you think we should be doing? And as I hear what her thoughts are and as I hear her reason through it and as I hear her getting to this point and she starts to understand me and understand, you know, I'm not perfect. I don't always understand, I don't always know. And I will be strict when I need to be strict, but I try to be flexible and understand her. I coming together and seeing eye to eye with her and having those conversations. Not that it happens all the time, but when it has my most favorite experience as a father.
[00:58:54] Speaker B: That's awesome.
That's awesome. It's good.
I don't know if I'm necessarily looking forward to the teenage years because my amazing 9 year old already flashes a lot of the, at least some of my, my poor parents. But my, my teenage, my teenage drama. So they, they come with their whole.
[00:59:14] Speaker A: Different set of challenges.
[00:59:16] Speaker B: She's a little clone of me and I'm just going, oh man, my wife is really going to be in for.
[00:59:21] Speaker A: It every, every stage, man, I'm, I'm super glad I'm not getting up in the middle of the night anymore.
[00:59:30] Speaker B: Oh yeah, that's dope.
[00:59:31] Speaker A: And, and not having to change diapers or, or the, you know, I mean, there's horror stories, right?
[00:59:36] Speaker B: Oh no. We could whole podcast on just that. Nobody would want to hear it.
[00:59:40] Speaker A: Nobody wants to hear it. But we've all been there. And every stage has its downsides and its difficulties and every stage has its rewards.
[00:59:47] Speaker B: Every stage has, I mean every stage is one that you look back through photos of and because our, and this is why, this is my last thought on even why 8 years old, I think is a perfect date is because I don't really remember a lot of bad things before eight years old, right? Like, I don't remember, I don't remember any like, times my parents totally blew it with disciplining me other than the one time that my dad threw away my Curious George monkey doll because I thought it would be a good idea to go and take him out into the ditch that we had up in Logan in the front and he came in like the doll came in soaking wet. My dad was like, you ruined this thing, man. You got to go throw it away. And I was devastated.
But other than that, I'm not throwing my dad under the bus here. We laugh about this all the time now. I'm just throwing, I'm just Throwing that out there. It actually is kind of a funny joke. And he always is just like, well, I'm sorry. I'm sorry that I ruined your life because of the curious Georgetown. I'm always just like, no, it's funny. But the thing is, like, I do actually think, though, that there is something that is kind of amazing about the human mind where we, before the age of eight, don't.
Our memory isn't super great. You know what I mean? It's not the most amazing. And the things that we do remember, for the most part, I feel like, are happiness and. And things that hopefully every kid gets to experience and in whatever.
And at 8, you kind of start remembering stuff you do. You know what I mean? So, I mean, that's the other.
[01:01:12] Speaker A: Better for worse.
[01:01:13] Speaker B: For better, for worse. Anyways, that's funny.
[01:01:16] Speaker A: No, thanks, Nancy.
[01:01:17] Speaker B: And we always look back on those ages as parents and also forget all of the diaper explosions and the waking up in the middle of the night. And you just look back at those pictures and you cry and you're like, I can't believe how fast they grow up. And it's sincere and scary and it's all those things, too.
[01:01:33] Speaker A: You'd almost take one more day at the playground with that explosion all over the slide.
[01:01:37] Speaker B: Dude, Nothing.
[01:01:38] Speaker A: Oh, you totally wouldn't.
[01:01:39] Speaker B: Well, it is. It's funny because just to have those. I know. I do know why the youngest get spoiled, though, right? I know why the oldest are always, like, the toughest. And I know why the youngest are always the most spoiled.
[01:01:48] Speaker A: It takes you that long to figure it out.
[01:01:50] Speaker B: Well, and then. And then by the time you do, you really start genuinely cherishing every single day of those different stages, right? Like, because you're going. Because then now you've had, like, now you've seen how fast they grow up.
And the oldest is always starting the new stage that you're just like, what a headache this is going to be. The middle is unfortunately forgotten about. And then the. You know what I mean? Or in that weird stage between the two. I'm sorry, middle children, but it's a real thing. And the youngest is always like, I just need to appreciate every single day that you still don't know how to yell back at me or crawl so that you can get into stuff, you know, I mean, it's like. It's just funny because you just. You. I feel like somehow have now gone like, yeah, you really actually should cherish every single day that you have, because.
[01:02:38] Speaker A: Man, it moves and it almost makes you sad. I mean, how many times have you wished you could hit pause and just keep your family exactly the way it was?
[01:02:46] Speaker B: I mean, I. I feel like that all the time, and. And at the same time, I'm always glad you can't, because then when all of them move into the next stage, you go, holy cow, there is so much.
[01:02:56] Speaker A: I'm glad I didn't miss out on this.
[01:02:57] Speaker B: Yep. There's so much fulfillment in that, too.
[01:02:59] Speaker A: So that's the meaning of life, I suppose.
[01:03:01] Speaker B: It's, I guess, fomo, though. I get weird. I'm like, I hate the fact that I'm gonna die.
[01:03:07] Speaker A: Oh, yeah.
[01:03:08] Speaker B: In, like, I don't know, 30 years. Hopefully not sooner. 30, 40 years. But my kids, I'm glad for them. But I also kind of am like, yeah, why do they get to have flying cars? And I. I don't. You know? Like, there's a weird FOMO about that, too, so it's a bittersweet deal. Hopefully Jesus just comes.
[01:03:25] Speaker A: We. I think we all hope that.
[01:03:27] Speaker B: I know we all hope that. Because I don't want to miss out on anything, man. That's what I'm hoping for. I want Jesus to come. I want to hopefully make at least the first round of cuts so that I can hang out for a little bit longer and not have to feel FOMO on the other side. But.
[01:03:39] Speaker A: Well, just. But think about this. As we've talked about, how you graduate from one stage to the other, or, you know, if you could hit pause, how much you would miss on knowing how wonderful it is down the road. What are we missing out on on the other side?
[01:03:51] Speaker B: I know. It's a good point.
[01:03:53] Speaker A: What glorious things are we going to be over there next week saying, you know, yeah, it was good, but I'm so glad I'm here now. It's true.
[01:04:00] Speaker B: So that's that, as always. Good perspective, man. What are we talking about next week?
[01:04:05] Speaker A: Next week, we're diving into Doctrine Covenants 71. 75. And it says, no weapon that is formed against you shall prosper.
[01:04:13] Speaker B: Oh, yeah.
[01:04:15] Speaker A: Invincible.
[01:04:15] Speaker B: Bulletproof.
[01:04:16] Speaker A: Bulletproof. Titanium.
[01:04:18] Speaker B: Can't wait. Titanium. Like the Sia and David Guetta song that got played on the radio in 2014. Every single day, all day.
[01:04:25] Speaker A: That's. That's. That's where I was.
Except for. I was thinking the Madeline Page version, because.
[01:04:31] Speaker B: Did she do a cover of that song?
[01:04:32] Speaker A: She did. She did awesome on the Voice. Was it?
[01:04:35] Speaker B: I. You're asking the wrong dude.
[01:04:37] Speaker A: You're the music guy. Come on.
[01:04:38] Speaker B: I know you would think that the music guy would have a better grip on that type of stuff. But. But, I mean, she's cool, man. I like her stuff, so I'm not.
[01:04:45] Speaker A: She's done a few concerts at the school I taught at, and she killed it every time.
[01:04:48] Speaker B: She's good. No, she's really good. She's really good.
And that song is pretty good, man. I am Tattoo.
Isn't that how it goes?
[01:04:58] Speaker A: More or less.
[01:05:00] Speaker B: Dude, maybe I need to go sing in the choir so that God can give me the talent.
[01:05:03] Speaker A: Use your talent, Snape.
[01:05:04] Speaker B: Maybe God needs to give me my talent back. Cause I. I'm scared that listening back onto that, it's not going to be as.
As capitalized on as. As I think it probably should have been. Anyways. All right, well, that's that until next week.
[01:05:18] Speaker A: See ya, Sam.
