Ezra & Nehemiah (Re-run)

[00:00:00] Speaker A: Foreign. [00:00:15] Speaker B: Welcome to the weekly Deep Dive podcast on the Add On Education Network. The podcast where we take a look at the weekly Come follow me discussion and try to add a little insight and unique perspective. I am your host, Jason Lloyd, here in the studio, back with Nate Pyfer from Alaska. [00:00:30] Speaker A: Yeah, baby, I'm back. [00:00:32] Speaker B: How were the woods up there, Nate? [00:00:35] Speaker A: Healing. [00:00:36] Speaker B: I like it. [00:00:37] Speaker A: It was incredible. [00:00:37] Speaker B: Hey, healing is very appropriate for the lesson this week. [00:00:41] Speaker A: Let's talk about it. [00:00:42] Speaker B: Yeah, we're gonna get into Ezra and Nehemia. [00:00:47] Speaker A: That's such an uncomfortable word to hear you say. [00:00:49] Speaker B: It's a terrible. It's so in Hebrew, you have four gutturals. [00:00:57] Speaker A: Okay. [00:00:58] Speaker B: Het is one of the four gutturals. [00:01:00] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:01:00] Speaker B: And it has kind of this sound to it. [00:01:03] Speaker A: Yep. [00:01:04] Speaker B: So the H is is pronounced with a little bit of a kind of like the ch in Bach. [00:01:08] Speaker A: Yep. [00:01:09] Speaker B: So Nehemia. [00:01:10] Speaker A: Let's just keep saying it as much as we can just so that it [00:01:13] Speaker B: just makes it stop even more uncomfortable [00:01:15] Speaker A: within two and a half minutes of this podcast. All right, let's keep going. [00:01:20] Speaker B: Welcome to the weekly Deep Dive. [00:01:22] Speaker A: Okay, so Nehemiah, Nehemia, and Ezra. [00:01:25] Speaker B: And it's fitting because we're. I mean, we're skipping through a little bit of history here. Last week, we talked about the utter destruction of Israel. And if you've noticed, reading the Bible, when we say Israel in the Bible, in the Old Testament, it oftentimes refers to the northern ten kingdoms, and Judah refers to the southern two kingdoms. And technically two and a half, ten and a half, because Manasseh is split between the two. But anyhow, Israel gets scattered to the Assyrians and Assyria brings all sorts of nations back in there. Judah gets carted off into Babylon. And this is not chronological order because what's happening in between where we left off last week and what we're covering this week is Esther, which we're going to talk about next week. Hers is kind of the. The time period of when the Jews are captive inside of Babylon, and Daniel, Daniel also happening after they get deported into Babylon. So we're missing a few stories. It's not going to exactly be chronological order, but it is the order in which the Bible is written. So we're going to be talking about the return of Israel. I said it. The return of Israel, but technically more it's the return of Judah, the southern kingdom from Babylon back into Jerusalem, the rebuilding of the temple. This is a very healing time for the Jews. And so that's why I say it's fitting that it was a very healing adventure for you. [00:03:01] Speaker A: Yep. [00:03:02] Speaker B: Ezra is Hebrew for help. Nehemiah is Hebrew for the comfort of Jehovah. So comforting. Help. This idea of bringing him back, restoring them, taking care of them. But before we dive down to this rabbit hole too much, there's a few thoughts. So for those of you who missed when we talked about Elijah and Elisha, taking it back two and three lessons ago, those are some of my favorite lessons we've covered in the entire Old Testament. Genesis, Elijah, Elisha, some of my favorites, but something I just wanted to throw in a few more snippets, if that's okay. From that, from that section. [00:03:46] Speaker A: Let's do it. [00:03:47] Speaker B: We talked about Elijah, meaning my God is Jehovah and Elijah's purpose and role. Coming in there and stating, you know, how long are you going to walk between two worlds? And convincing the people that Jehovah is God versus Elisha's role. And their names are so similar, but his name, Elie, my God, Yeshia, Salvation, My God of salvation. Showing the different ways of salvation. And. And as we were talking about the axe head floating and the waters kind of symbolic of tribulation and trouble as drowning in the depths, death. And so the guy has pretty much sold himself into slavery because he can't repay the loss of this borrowed axe. And Elisha the prophet cuts off a branch and throws the branch in the water and causes this axe head to float. As I was thinking about that story some more, something that kind of stood out to me as we talked about that branch being symbolic of Christ is that the story also says that Elisha took the extra effort to cut the branch. It's not just a branch that's broken off, but he cuts the branch. And I love that imagery because Christ was wounded for our transgressions. He was cut by the nails piercing his hands, his feet, and the spear being thrust into his side. He was cut for our transgressions. This branch was cut so that he could be delivered from the waters. And waters also symbolic of the grave death. You look at the waters of baptism, this idea of it being ground level and being buried into the water, symbolic of death, being raised from death, floating up to the top of the waters, resurrection because Christ was wounded. So I just love that imagery and I wanted to kind of go back and hit that real quick. [00:05:34] Speaker A: I love that. I'm glad we hit that and maybe [00:05:37] Speaker B: one more point worth mentioning and then I promise I'll move on. Yashia the Yeshia Oshea, the Hebrew for salvation. That word should be semi familiar because that Hebrew word translated into Greek is Jesus. So it's kind of cool that you have Elisha and Elijah and their names so very similar and back to back the way you do, because it's almost an Old Testament, New Testament type reference. My God is Jehovah, but my God is Jesus. And that parallel saying Jehovah is Jesus, they are the same person. So it's kind of interesting the role those two prophets and their names have and how they're placed together in the historical record and the testimony that they bear, even in that small, subtle detail that gets missed. It's beautiful. Thank you. Should we get into the restoration? [00:06:30] Speaker A: Let's do it. [00:06:32] Speaker B: All right. If you guys read, I'm hoping you read. I hope you all read these scriptures, preferably even before you listen to the podcast, because we don't have time to reference every little single thing from here reading. But as we start talking about it, hopefully it kind of rings a bell with you from what you've read or what you're familiar with, and it makes it a little bit more rich for you. But as we're reading, first you have Cyrus, King of Persia, and he's come in and conquered the Babylonians. And he realizes that he has a special role in Jewish history, that his role is to let these people go back to Jerusalem and build their temple. And we're going to talk about this a little bit later in the year when we get to Isaiah, because Isaiah prophesies of Cyrus's role by name. And so as the Jews predicted, this was going to happen even down to like 70 years after captivity. We are going to be let go. We are going to go back and it is going to be a king that the Lord is going to raise. And just not going too deep into Isaiah's prophecies, but he does say he is going to raise them from the east and from the north. And Cyrus is interesting because he is part Medes. The Medes, M E D E S are north of Babylon, but he's also part Persian, which is east of Babylon. And Cyrus unites the two kingdoms. So he is really coming from the north and the east, these two kingdoms, to liberate the Jews from Babylon and at great personal expense. He looks at this and he looks at these people and he feels it his duty to restore them to their lands and have them dedicate a temple to their God. And he even goes through the Babylonian records and finds a list of all the temple instruments and ornaments and where they are, and kind of a receipt of what the Babylonians took and makes sure that all of that is gathered and given back to the Jews, pays for the restoration for them to go back and to make sure that they are all set up to build a temple to the Lord. So it is a touching story and it was a story very much prophesied about. And this idea, anytime we are talking about restoration, I think it is a more bright image than talking about death and destruction and getting lost, that even though things seem bad, there does come a time when things will be brought back together. What I want to highlight in this is the restoration of Israel versus the restoration of Judah, because we don't read about a restoration of Israel as prominent or as clear as what we see with the restoration of Judah as we're talking about these two different kingdoms. Because Israel and this is where we get the lost 10 tribes. And I'm sure all of our listeners have heard of the lost 10 tribes before these guys at the country to the north. They weren't carried away captive into Babylon the same way that Jerusalem was, the same way that Judah was. They were destroyed 120 years earlier, 720 B.C. by Assyria and they're deported, but they're never brought back into the land. Instead, and this is going to come up very clear. In fact, maybe we read this in Ezra when they start writing letters back and forth, they write a letter to the king of Persia. Give me half a second as I open this up. And in this letter they cite all of the different kingdoms where they come from. So this is Ezra 4, 9. Then wrote rehum the chancellor and Shimshai the scribe and the rest of their companions, the Dites, the Aphorite. This will be fun to read. This is your begat's favorite part, Nate, watching people butcher these names. [00:10:42] Speaker A: This is my favorite part. [00:10:45] Speaker B: The Sathkites, the Tarpaulites and the Aphrasites and the Archivites and the Babylonians and the Susanites and the Dahevites and the Elamites and the rest of the nations whom the great and noble as Napar talking about the king of Assyria brought over and set in the cities of Samaria. So we talked about this last week when Assyria deported Israel. They didn't just deport them, but they brought all of these different nations that we're reading about in this week's lesson and planted them into Israel so that you don't have one single cohesive nation anymore. You have all sorts of different ethnic groups that can't really unite very well, on a united front against the kingdom to revolt. They're kind of. Everyone's a little bit shy and kind of holding to themselves, and they don't unite to form a good, strong rebellion in doing this. Lions came out of the woods and was eating everybody up. And the king of Assyria is counseling with his counselors, and they say, what's happened is you've offended the Lord of that land. If they're going to be prosperous, you have to teach them how to worship the Lord of that land. So they took Levites and brought them from where they had deported them back into Israel to teach them how to worship Jehovah. This is where the Samaritans came from. But I wonder if as we're talking about the restoration of Judah, and you Never see these 10 tribes of Israel coming back. If the restoration of Israel isn't so much the 10 tribes coming from wherever they were taken back, as much as the Gentiles being grafted in to the house of Israel and the restoration of Israel. The restoration of the ten tribes is really. Go to that parable of the olive tree in Jacob 5 that you see in the Book of Mormon. When that tree gets scattered and branches go to all these various different parts. That's exactly what happened to the northern kingdom with the Assyrians. All of these were taken to different lands, some more fertile than others and some different whatever. And Gentiles were brought into this tree to try to save this tree, and this was Israel. And so I think the restoration of Israel preceded the restoration of Judah in that it wasn't a restoration in the sense that the 10 tribes were brought in as much as it was a restoration. And that all of these nations adopted Jehovah and were taught how to worship Jehovah and became Israel. And I want you as you're thinking about this. And again, maybe the highlight is this is a perspective. I'm not trying to put this out and say this is exactly what the scripture means. I'm just trying to read it, understand it, and offer some perspective on how I see this. But look at these stories. The loss of Israel and the deportation of Judah and the restoration of Israel and the restoration of Judah are the most prominent themes in the Old Testament. And they're going to add a lot of context and coloring and flavoring to the parables that Christ shares in the New Testament. And when you have all of these nations being brought into Israel, think of Christ again when he's talking to the Jews and they say, we have Abraham as a father and Christ says, I can take of these stones and raise seed up unto Abraham. And essentially that is what he did with the northern kingdom, is he brought all of these people and restored Israel [00:14:37] Speaker A: in that sense, outside of the house, [00:14:40] Speaker B: outside of the house of Israel, outside of the seed of Abraham, he brought up new seed of Abraham. And the Samaritans had the Bible and they had worship. And a lot of times I'd have to go, maybe next week's for homework. I'll try to find some references. But the Samaritan scriptures were very accurate and provide some very interesting perspective into this. Not as far off as what the southern kingdom leads us to believe. There is an animosity that exists between the southern kingdom the. And the northern kingdom even before they split. When you look at Saul, who was from Benjamin, which is one of those two kingdoms in the south, when he is chosen as a king, a lot of the north doesn't really accept him until you have that. That moment where he unifies Israel by cutting up the oxen and sending it all over, just as they had done when Benjamin had offended Israel. But he unifies them against a common enemy, and eventually all of Israel anoints him. But when. But when David becomes king, you have that fracturing again. Saul's son is supported by the ten tribes of Israel to the north, and David is supported by Judah in the south, and he's able to unite them. Then you have Solomon, Solomon's son. The kingdom divides again and it never reunites from that point on. And you have this animosity between Ephraim, the head of the tribes in the north, and Judah, the head of the two tribes of the south. And that rivalry is a very sibling rivalry throughout the whole Bible, very persistent. When we get to the Samaritans, that rivalry is taken up to a level higher than what it even was because they're blending with these other nations. But as offensive as that seems, read the Bible. That's what Judah was doing the whole time. They were told, do not mix with the Canaanites. And what do they do? You are supposed to exterminate all these people, and yet they are intermarrying. They are worshiping their gods. They are bringing in their practices. So the kettle calling the pot black here. When Judah is very offended by Samaria coming in and all these outside nations worshiping. Well, that's the same thing that they were doing essentially. And we see that here again in Ezra, when the temple's done, the people start marrying, intermarrying with the Canaanites again. And Ezra has to say, no, no, no, we're gonna kind of go back to cleaning that vessel and fixing things and making ourselves a more dedicated and a better people than that. [00:17:18] Speaker A: So how does this have to do maybe with then, the parable of the Good Samaritan? Because I think that when we were kind of talking about before, you related kind of some of that, explaining the animosity between these two and the history between these two, I think really added a lot of detail and perspective to that parable specifically. [00:17:38] Speaker B: Yeah. Well, let's look at a few of these parables. So first, you mentioned the parable of the Good Samaritan. I think it's a great parable because here you have an example of a Levite of a priest, of these guys that have these roles to officiate in the temple and stopping to cleanse. This man that has open wounds, has issues of blood would disqualify them from temple service. And so they felt like their obligation to the temple and their duty to God was more important than their duty to the stranger that lied there beaten on the street, that was likely going to die if they didn't take care of them. And so rather than defile themselves, they were overly pious to their duty, where the Samaritan didn't have those same reserves. Reserves. That's not the right way to say that, is it? [00:18:35] Speaker A: Reservations. [00:18:36] Speaker B: Thank you. Thank you. Didn't have the same reservations. He took it upon himself to go and do this. And I think that you can look at that as a commentary from Christ on the Southern kingdom's overly pious look and disdain on the Samaritans to the north. And they would accuse them of being unclean and of not being pious enough, yet they were overly pious, that they were missing the point. [00:19:09] Speaker A: And this, I think you kind of even related this to the restoration that maybe Israel had had before, right? As this idea or the grafting of these branches is that Jesus was highlighting specifically you. You have. You have these people that are being considered outcasts from, like, this super pious, you know, the Jews basically saying, oh, we don't want to have anything to do with these people because they've intermingled and mixed or whatever. And Jesus is saying, once again, like, bro, they're the ones doing it. Right? Yeah, Like. Or at least in this situation, well, [00:19:47] Speaker B: look at the parable of the prodigal son, right? Maybe it's not a parable of a single prodigal son. Maybe it's a parable of two prodigal sons, because you have that Son that first goes off to the world. And think of this parable now in context of what we know about Israel being scattered versus Judah being scattered. Israel is the first to go in the north. And they're going out into the world like this young man. And they're going out into the world in a very humbling circumstance. They're being beaten down, defiled, humiliated. He's out there eating with the pigs. And it's significant that he's eating with the pigs because pigs were considered unclean. [00:20:30] Speaker A: Right? [00:20:30] Speaker B: So he is in with the Gentiles. Unclean Israel is being scattered out there and the restoration of Israel. It's not this clear, clean sending the people back into Jerusalem. It's this gathering of these Gentiles in to Israel to worship the Lord that's bringing these outsiders in. Think back again on the story of Elijah, who was a prophet in the north and the widow that was taking care of him. Think of the story of Ruth who's brought into Israel because of her marriage in Boaz, and find strength in and unity in Israel coming from the outside. Think of Rahab from Jericho. This theme is a very prominent theme. And as this outsider finds healing being brought back into the land of Israel and finds the Lord and discovers him, now you have a jealous brother to the south who's looking at it and cannot accept him because of where he's been and what he's done. And so you have. [00:21:29] Speaker A: He doesn't realize that in that moment he is rebelling himself too. Yes, he himself is sinning by not taking the example of the Father and opening with welcome arms. [00:21:46] Speaker B: The restoration and the way he's lost is very different from the way that the first one is lost. I don't know. I wonder if you take a look at some of Christ's parables, if you don't see a different perspective just based on the history of Israel themselves and this kind of sibling rivalry, you see it play out so well here in Ezra, because when the Jews come back, the Samaritans in the north are excited to see them and reunite with them. Now all along in Israelite history, the north is fearful that they'll reunite with the south. So they created the golden calves in Bethel to create their own worship outside of the temple so that the people don't go down to Jerusalem and worship. And the Jews constantly cite that in the Bible as a stumbling block and an error. They say he was a good king, but he caused the people to sin in the way of his father. Talking specifically about this worship in Bethel with the golden calves. So they keep saying they can't get over the fact that they kept worshiping falsely in Bethel. They kept worshiping falsely in Bethel. They kept worshiping falsely in Bethel. Now the Jews come back and here comes the north, and they're willing to throw aside that worshiping in Bethel and get behind the Jews to worship correctly in Jerusalem. Like, we will leave our ways and join with you. Let's reunite with you. Isn't that what the entire Bible you're hoping to see is this reuniting? Not only is the restoration of Judah into Jerusalem, but the reuniting of the fractured north and the fractured south into one whole house of Israel. It's what you want to see. And they come and they say, let us help you. Let us build a temple. And the Jews say, no, we don't want you. We don't want your help. And you see that? [00:23:38] Speaker A: Well, look at that parable again then. Now look at the parable of the good Samaritan again, right? It's like you have the humble, repentant son coming back. [00:23:49] Speaker B: Prodigal son. [00:23:50] Speaker A: Yes, the prodigal son. I mean, coming back and saying, I'm in. I've. I've fixed. I've been humbled. And, and the father's going, sweet. And the other brother's going, we don't. I don't really want. I don't really want this party. [00:24:05] Speaker B: You don't deserve this. [00:24:06] Speaker A: You don't deserve. Why, why would they deserve this party? Why would they deserve all the things that I am entitled to? [00:24:13] Speaker B: And I know we're going to get a lot of kickback on this and push back. I mean, this is my perspective as I'm reading this. I'm not trying to state this as fact. This is how I see it. And I know that people are going to look at that and say, well, but the Bible writers are saying these people were wicked in the north. But I want you to remember who wrote. Yes, who wrote the Bible, and how [00:24:35] Speaker A: did Jesus feel about them while he was on earth? [00:24:37] Speaker B: These are the scribes. These are the scribes. And he calls out the scribes, right? And he calls them out. Because even hundreds of years later, when Christ comes, the same idea. Like you scribes, you Pharisees, you think you're better than everybody else, but you at excluding everybody else are missing the point. Like, you think you're more righteous, but you're missing something. [00:25:05] Speaker A: I think that that's. I think that that's so important that it's worth stating again, is that yes. The Old Testament that we read was written by people, and we know how those people felt about the. The other houses up in the North. And you have to at least consider that bias when you read these Scriptures. [00:25:26] Speaker B: Yeah. Understand the Scriptures in the context in which they are given and understand that these same scribes that are recording these Scriptures and are the same scribes here, we're about that Christ was calling out. [00:25:38] Speaker A: Yes. [00:25:39] Speaker B: In the New Testament. It's not that these people are perfect. And I love how Brigham Young says it when he's talking about the Bible and they ask, do you believe every word of the Bible? And he says, I believe that the word of Bible contains. Or excuse me, I believe that the Bible contains the word of God, the words of devil, the words of strange men, righteous men, wicked men, and the words of an ass when he's correcting a prophet down the. Down the road. [00:26:00] Speaker A: That's right. [00:26:02] Speaker B: It's amazing, and I hope I paraphrased that close enough to the actual quote, but the Bible is what it is, and it doesn't purport to be some infallible, perfect work. In fact, I can't wait till we get to psalms and you'll see missing verses that we've been able to find and restore. And understand that people are putting their perspective, their take. You're getting, like when we talked about Manasseh, you're getting a very bad flavoring of who the king is, but not a lot of description as to why they feel that way or what his acts are, are. You're seeing a lot of judgment without a lot of reasoning or explanation. Or so we're having to take a lot of people's word for it. It's not perfect. We just have to understand what it is and what can we learn from it, and what do we learn from it? As I see this pattern of Israel's restoration preceding Judah's restoration and Israel's restoration consisting of all of these nations being brought in. It makes me wonder if in the last days after apostasy, again, that we shouldn't expect to see that same pattern, that the Lord is going to be bringing all of these different nations into the house of Israel first and then following the restoration of these 10 tribes, as you will, Israel from the north, you are going to be getting the restoration of Judah, and you don't have two separate restorations. Not the idea that Judah has to become Israel or that Israel has to become Judah. There's two separate nations here being restored, maybe in two separate, different ways. And after you have the restoration of all of these different nations and kingdoms coming to Christ and learning of his ways and following the Messiah and becoming his people, what do they do? They turn around and they consecrate dedicate this land of Israel for the restoration of Judah and their people. And the Jews are able to gather and restore here in this land. And the enmity between Judah and Ephraim has to cease. And you've got to realize the Christians and the Jews are not two different nations chasing two different gods. They are one people that need to stop hating each other and come together. [00:28:22] Speaker A: Amen, brother. Good stuff. [00:28:26] Speaker B: Yeah, it's a powerful thing. And I think we can learn. I think we can even apply what we're learning. With Judah's hesitancy in embracing or accepting this new Israel in the north, with today's world in inclusivity or accepting people that are different from us, this idea that who is us? Are we drawing lines between us and them and them and us, and trying to push people away and repel people because they're different. Different. What are we doing? What fears are keeping us from embracing each other and becoming one people? Because really, isn't that the whole point of Zion, to be of one heart and one mind, not to have an us and a them? And they're wicked because of this, and they're thinking that we're wicked because of that. And we just keep stoning each other and coming to this idea that there has to be these hard lines and you have to take a stance and it has to be this, that we become more and more divisive, more and more hateful, more and more divided, more and more split versus unifying and finding ways to include people. And I want to be careful with that, because inclusivity, I think, is being taken and taught to a very different extreme. That maybe at some point we get leery of it and scared of it and want to run away from it, but really we should be embracing it for what it is and understanding that we do need to make sure people feel welcome and that they have a home. And really all people are God's people. And how. How do we find a way to make this work for everyone? [00:30:14] Speaker A: Sweet. Let's keep going. [00:30:15] Speaker B: Okay. I do like. And you pointed this out, Nate, as we were coming down here. And I think there's some significance to this, the order and how this restoration occurs when we're talking about Judah specifically and how Judah comes back into their inheritance. First you have the temple that needs to be built and restored. And there was Going back to this rift, I wonder if it would have been a lot faster, a lot easier had they worked together, but because they were so divisive and pushing away, now all of a sudden these people are going back to the king and creating the strife, and it elongates the whole process. But to get back to the point, the process had to be concluded. First you had to build the temple when the temple gets finished. Now you have to work on the people themselves, because as Ezra points out, he noticed that the people are starting to intermarry with the Canaanites and starting to adopt the Canaanite practices. And isn't this the kettle calling the pot black? [00:31:17] Speaker A: Totally it is. [00:31:18] Speaker B: How hypocritical. In case you are thinking that, that I'm being overly harsh on the scribes at this time in the South Kingdom, and you say the Jews couldn't accept outside help because they're Gentiles and that would have defiled them. Why then did the Jews accept help from Persia? Why were they okay with the king of Persia writing the checks and giving them gold and giving them tribute and providing them with all of the financial support from these Gentile nations, but not from Israel. Right. Anyhow, the people themselves find themselves in these same similar patterns of what you see in the Northern Kingdom. Ezra says we've got to make ourselves more holy than this. And so the second stage of this restoration, as you've pointed out, Nate, is restoring the people to a wholeness. First we restored the temple, now we're restoring the people. And when that finishes, we go into the book of Nehemiah and he is restoring the city now as a whole, building the city wall around the city. And as we're talking about this, Nate, you had some great insight on this. Maybe, maybe you want to take it from here, or what do you think the significance of this order is? [00:32:30] Speaker A: It's funny because like I was telling you in the car, I can see the kind of, the outline of how I'm seeing this in my brain, but I'm definitely still trying to fully form the. The point. But I think that, I think that it's pretty obvious, at least if you look at those things kind of from a big picture standpoint of what in our lives, in what order do we need to be making things right or making things whole right? And I did think that it's, it's important that the first thing that they needed to make sure is that they have a place to worship and to. To do their sacred ordinances. And so that God, I guess, can be with them on Earth again. Right. The house of God on Earth. The second house that needs to be made in order was their own personal house and their personal relationship with God. Right. Their personal worthiness. And then at that point moving out from there, building the walls to protect the city. And I guess my thought was if you do that in the reverse order, it's like trying to build a stable house, starting with the roof, working down towards the foundation. Right? Is that, is that it doesn't matter if you have really big strong walls around your city, if you don't have God's protection, if you aren't right with God, if God can't be there on Earth with you, you are putting a band aid on. You know what I mean? Like a deep, deep wound. Your arm's been chopped off and you're trying to put a band aid on it. Right? Is that, yes, it might temporarily protect you from some outside forces, but without God's support, you will always be vulnerable to the attacks outside. Right. And I look at this even just from a personal standpoint of like, where do we, where are we building, where are we building our foundation? Are we starting with our covenants? Are we starting with, with the temple? Are we starting with the promises we've made to God and from there going, okay, that is my starting foundation point. Now, personally, what am I doing to become sanctified or become more holy as a person? And not holy even as the word H O L Y, but W, H O L. Right? To become more holy and put together. [00:34:57] Speaker B: Complete, complete. [00:34:58] Speaker A: That's what I'm saying. Complete, complete. That. And, and then from there now, now that you've, now that you've built the correct foundation, then what am I doing to help shore up and protect those around me? And I just think that I, I don't, I don't think that there's. I don't think that that's by chance, that that's the, that's the order in which things were restored. [00:35:18] Speaker B: Yeah, I, I love what you said there. And I don't think that can be stated enough. You can almost see here, priorities too, like put God first, then put your fellow man and your relationship with man, and ultimately God's people will follow. Because if you're putting God first and you're treating people the way you should, Zion's going to follow that you will establish a people, inevitably, that's going to follow. And you're going to build that. [00:35:50] Speaker A: Yep, that was my thought at least, as I was kind of reading through that. I Kind of. That was something that jumped out at me. [00:35:57] Speaker B: And I'd say, I remember doing the life saving merit badge as a kid. And scouts. [00:36:01] Speaker A: Right? That's right. [00:36:02] Speaker B: And that's one of the things they teach you is you've got to save somebody from a position of strength. The last thing you want to do is jump in the water with them because then if they're drowning and they latch onto you, then potentially now you're [00:36:17] Speaker A: both drowning, you're both just going to drown. [00:36:18] Speaker B: If you can from the side, reach a pull out and get them or what can you do to first save yourself? You see the same thing with airlines, right? Make sure the parents put the oxygen mask on them first. Make sure they're in a good position to where they can help others. Because they're not going to do anyone any good if now all of a sudden they're struggling. Because what kid is going to be able to help the adult, Right. [00:36:38] Speaker A: And then take that the one step further than symbolically. Symbolically with this story, which is like who has the ultimate power to help? You know what I mean? In any circumstance, who has the ultimate position of power to be able to help you is God. [00:36:56] Speaker B: Make sure you're anchored in him. [00:36:57] Speaker A: That's exactly right. Is make sure that you're giving yourself the best chance of survival by preparing a place for God to dwell among you here on earth, whether literally in this case or metaphorically, make sure that that's truly your anchor because that's the ultimate power position to save us from wherever we are. [00:37:21] Speaker B: Yeah. Could you imagine climbing a mountain and having a partner that you're climbing with and seeing them struggle or fall. And rather than setting an anchor first to make sure you're in a good spot and anchored to that wall to be able to reach out and help them. Go out and help them. Now both of you are falling. [00:37:38] Speaker A: Both of you are just falling off [00:37:39] Speaker B: because you didn't set taking that to a modern application. I mean, you see that in Doctrine and Covenants when it says seek first to obtain my word, then you'll be called to preach my word. You're not called to preach yet. Obtain that word first, then go out and preach. [00:37:55] Speaker A: Well, I think even just from a very modern setting too. And this is kind of maybe just some real world stuff that maybe is only anecdotal for me, but I feel like is pretty common in our culture and in our world. And that is we get so we can. And in some cases rightfully so, we get really hurt when we have friends or Family that maybe leave the church or that turn their back on the faith or whatever that is for whatever their personal reasons are. And. And. And no, I'm not going to judge that at all. Right. For their personal reasons. But if. If we truly are going, hey, we want to be able to be there in case they. They need. They want to come back eventually or whatever that is. It's like for us to be able to be in a position to. Where we can truly be an example and hopefully still a lighthouse in one way or another for those seeking to come closer to God. It's. If we. If we spend all of our time going out and trying to, I don't know, convince everybody, it's like, no, please stay, please stay, please stay. The reality is, is that you're going to be bombarded with a lot of the information or the things that. That convinced them to leave naturally. Right. They'll want to talk about that. And if you're not in a secure place, that can be tough. And I'm speaking for personal experience, that can be tough. [00:39:27] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:39:27] Speaker A: And maybe the point in this more than anything is, first and foremost, make sure you are where you need to be, with God, wherever that is. I'm not gonna. I'm not gonna put that on you. I'm speaking for myself here. And this is kind of what really helped me really be at peace with a lot of friends and family choosing not only to leave, you know, the faith that I deeply believe in, but then be very, you know, vocal critics of it and very. You know what I mean? Like, very antagonistic. And that's tough. And I. For the longest time, that. That could really bring me down and hurt me. And I. I had to ask myself, why is this affecting me so much when a friend or family leaves? And I had to admit, well, it's because whether they're saying it or not, they're challenging your faith, man. They're in one way or another saying what you believe is wrong, Nate. And that's a hard thing to hear. [00:40:39] Speaker B: It is. [00:40:40] Speaker A: And it was the beginning of a really incredible process for me, which then went, okay. I mean, I have believed these things for a long time, but have I really gone and really combed through my faith and foundation and gone. Get rid of the clutter, get rid of the culture, get rid of the dogma. Start at the beginning. [00:41:02] Speaker B: What do I believe? [00:41:03] Speaker A: Where are you? And if there's any part of that foundation that isn't secure, shore that up. Because. Because that's, first and foremost was what's the most important for. For you and your personal salvation. And from there build outward. And it completely changed. I mean, truly, like everything. And again, like I still, again, of course we all do. We have friends and family that continue to be on their own paths or wherever they are, and some again, directly challenging what I believe. And instead of getting so depressed and confused and worked up over that, it's just calm and peacefulness and love and truly like acceptance and inclusivity of which is like, hey, wherever you are, please just be happy. Wherever you are on this journey, please just be happy. Because I know I am and I know where I'm at. And just like you probably, no matter what you say to me isn't going to change that at this point because I've spent the time that I've needed to. And so anyways, I guess I think that maybe that's why this jumped out too, is just because of how personal a lot of this really like, personal interaction. I mean, this is truly what, as members of the church, this is life. This is what our life is. [00:42:28] Speaker B: You know, that's a powerful message. And I think it comes from a section of scriptures where really you see a lot of bickering about the temple and can you build it? And they start accusing them. Well, they don't have a right. And it gets kind of almost funny. Hilarious how they're like, well, these guys have a history of rebellion. You should really look at the annals and understand that these people are. And the king of Persia knows what they're up to. That's why he puts them in charge of putting a stop to it. He doesn't want to get involved. You're going to squalor. [00:43:01] Speaker A: You. [00:43:01] Speaker B: You get involved. I'm not going to get dirty on this. [00:43:03] Speaker A: Yeah, exactly. [00:43:04] Speaker B: But just such a weird passage of all that. But then to come away with that profound takeaway. Nate, thank you. That's. That's great. And I think it stands also not just with what you said, but as a testimony that God is the same today, yesterday and forever. When you look at the restoration of Israel today, you look at God calling a prophet. Again, you look at God restoring Israel and bringing them back here in the earth. And what's the first thing in the restoration of the gospel that God commands them to do? And Joseph Smith says the purpose of any gathering is to build a temple. [00:43:44] Speaker A: That's right. That's a great point. [00:43:47] Speaker B: You look at the history of the church and you're like, these people don't have anything and yet they're asked to Sacrifice everything to build a Nauvoo temple. Why didn't they wait until they get established as a people first and then build a temple? [00:43:59] Speaker A: This is a fantastic relation to modern. I mean, to our modern restoration. [00:44:04] Speaker B: Yeah. And their temples, they lose them. They lose the Nauvoo temple, they lose the Kirtland temple. And yet God asked them to build that for first, to show that relationship, that dedication, to build that first. And then the people went through a refining fire, and the people had to go through the trials that they went through, the crossing of the plains and all the things that really sealed them as a people, and they went through that refining fire. And then you get this Zion society that starts to rise up out of the dust and the city walls, if you will. This idea of a. A nation of people that dot the earth and that kind of grow and become a people. So you see that same pattern. [00:44:45] Speaker A: And then they eventually move out west where they can very. They can actually very physically begin to protect themselves as a people. [00:44:56] Speaker B: The forts that they build and the protection that they have and the numbers begin. [00:45:00] Speaker A: Exactly. Yeah. [00:45:01] Speaker B: Zion follows. After you've built the temple, after you've built. Built the people, then that. That follows. [00:45:09] Speaker A: This is great. Anything else with this, or should we keep moving? [00:45:12] Speaker B: Last, Last point on this. When you look at Nehemia and you see what he's going through and the plots for his life and how he's got to hide and kind of conceal himself. And as they're building, you know, building with one. One arm armed while the. The other one's constructing and whatnot. And. And you see this anytime you have a big change like this restoration of Judah, you expect to see this kind of adversity as we are talking about God being the same and maybe even people being the same. What Nehemiah goes through through the restoration of Nazareth and what these people go through, the hell they go through, could you expect it to be any different? It reminded me so much of the Christians. When you look at them having to keep the doors closed on Sunday when they met because of the fear for the Jews, this minority people that were persecuted. And you look at Christ being taken and crucified and the apostles being killed, you would expect then, as you see this pattern of restoration from them coming back to Jerusalem after Babylon to Christ coming and bringing a restoration in his time in creating the apostles and the Gospel. If I were to look for a restoration in modern times, I would expect to see a minority people that they're not embraced by the world. A minority people that are fearful that have to shelter that their leader is being persecuted to the point of death. Where you see the martyrdom of Joseph Smith, this pattern fits so well with what you see in biblical precedents in the New Testament and in the Old Testament. So I love to see that cohesiveness play its way throughout all of history. [00:47:00] Speaker A: Amazing. Let's keep going. [00:47:01] Speaker B: Okay. I'm, I'm wondering where else we want to go with this. [00:47:08] Speaker A: I mean, those are the things for me that I got the most out of this. I, I don't think that anybody listening is going to be like, too upset if we don't, you know, blow past 60 something minutes. But, I mean, if there's any other, like, major topics that you want to talk about, I think that, you know, we have time to do it. But also, you know, wherever you're at. Jason. [00:47:29] Speaker B: Yeah, I, at this point in the podcast, I, I can see maybe one or two things small just kind of highlight and wrap it up. [00:47:38] Speaker A: Let's do it. [00:47:40] Speaker B: One being the savvy of the people when they're, when they're being afflicted by, by the Samaritans in the north and later all these other people that are saying, you can't rebuild these walls. And they keep going back to the king of Persia and saying these people can't. And the king's kind of waffling how they handle that pressure because they could go and they could wage war against the Samaritans or they could go and they could push back and fight and they could make their situation even worse. But to sit and write these letters back to the king in a very eloquent, well stated way and appeal to the powers that be and say, look, King, I understand this perspective and what's being said, but search the records and you will see what Cyrus said when he ordered us and the commandments that he made and kind of go back and make a claim and be able to justify their means through the legal methods that existed. Right. You see that with modern day the persecution of Joseph Smith as they went to the governors and the local leaders and the president ultimately of the United States and wrote their letters and tried to not rebel and incite chaos or anarchy or not say, you know what, forget all of you. We're God's people and God's going to deliver us and go to war with everyone, but try to work within the system that you have. And it can be a frustrating system, but the way they were patient and worked through that, I don't know, it was kind of Impressive to me. [00:49:15] Speaker A: What else? [00:49:17] Speaker B: Last point. The genealogies is a very. [00:49:21] Speaker A: Begatz. [00:49:22] Speaker B: Begats. Yeah, baby. It plays a very significant role when they're coming back. And on the one hand we look at this piousness and saying, I don't know. But on the other hand, for priests to be able to officiate, they had to prove that they were through that line. And if there was anything wrong with the paperwork or any holes or anything missing and they weren't careful in keeping their genealogy, they lost out on the priesthood. They couldn't hold it anymore. And I think we can see some of the significance that genealogy had, at least in this time. It was very weighty for this people. Extremely important. Genealogy isn't just something that is important in recent times, but this has always been something very critical. Even to your point, Nate, going back early on Genesis 5 and our first begat episode, Begats has been. It's important to know where you came from. It's important to create that link and that understanding and try to unite rather than divide even in a historical sense. [00:50:33] Speaker A: And we do care about priesthood lineage. [00:50:37] Speaker B: Absolutely. [00:50:38] Speaker A: That's not something that a man can just take upon himself. [00:50:41] Speaker B: You don't want to falsify the records. You've got to be able to clearly outline where that came from. And it's got to. The branch does not blossom if it's not tied to Christ. [00:50:53] Speaker A: Love it. [00:50:54] Speaker B: Okay, that's all I got. [00:50:55] Speaker A: What do we got next week? [00:50:57] Speaker B: Next week we're going to be talking about Esther. [00:50:59] Speaker A: Yeah, baby, we knew what we were talking about. Next week. All right, well then, until next week. [00:51:05] Speaker B: Mordecai. [00:51:06] Speaker A: See ya.