Episode Transcript
Speaker 1 00:00:15 Welcome
Speaker 2 00:00:16 To the weekly deep dive podcast on the add on education network, the podcast where we take a look at the weekly, come follow me discussions, and try to add a little insight and unique perspective. I am your host, Jason Lloyd here in the studio with my friend and this shows producer, Nate Piper.
Speaker 1 00:00:33 Well, hello.
Speaker 2 00:00:34 Hello
Speaker 1 00:00:34 Nate. What's up buddy.
Speaker 2 00:00:35 Dude. I'm stoked, dude. Toro. He's a great book.
Speaker 1 00:00:38 I am, I am thrilled. I, I was teaching a, uh, teacher's prep class today. Ooh. And one of the things that we kind of discussed a little bit at least was the, uh, the idea of, uh, introducing what we're gonna talk about right. At the top of the lesson I was thinking we should do that. We should just say, Hey, here's, here's, here's what we're gonna be covering right at the top. So that, uh, so that you, uh, you can know if you wanna skip anything, which you shouldn't, but you know, in case, in case you're preparing a lesson and you wanna just get ahead. What do you think about that, Jason? I think it's
Speaker 2 00:01:11 A great idea. I've got like 18 points though. By the time I go through all of them,
Speaker 1 00:01:16 I mean, give us let's maybe just which, which ones are we for sure. Going to cover. <laugh>
Speaker 2 00:01:21 Uh, let's see. Um, I've got a question for, for you guys to think about, and that is a little trivia. What is the first nation that gets destroyed men, women, and children. When we're talking about Israel getting established as a, a new nation. Okay. From the Exodus. We'll talk about that. Um, we're gonna talk about God saying I did not choose you because of your number. I think there's a lot of profoundness there with that statement. We'll get into that here in a bit. Okay. And then God giving them some caution saying, I know that you're going to be established in the land. I know that you're gonna be wealthy. You're gonna do well. And I worry that you're going to forget me when that day comes. How do you not forget me? And, and I think that's wise counsel for all of us. How, how do we deal with not forgetting God when times are good?
Speaker 1 00:02:13 Okay.
Speaker 2 00:02:14 We're gonna talk about a circumcision of heart.
Speaker 1 00:02:18 Can't wait.
Speaker 2 00:02:19 Yeah. Yeah. I'm I'm kinda looking forward to that. We got a few heaven of heavens and hell of Hells, a little interesting things there. It's a little interesting Hebrew tidbits on translation and a covenant being created as Israel comes into the holy land to land of promise.
Speaker 1 00:02:35 Let's get into it. Let's
Speaker 2 00:02:37 Do so. Going into that first question, what was the first nation destroyed as Israel, as Israel's leaving Egypt, going on their whole exes, they go through the wilderness 40 years. They're gonna be coming in. What is the first nation that is destroyed men, women, and children, so that Israel can be a nation. Any, any, do you wanna take a stabby stab?
Speaker 1 00:02:59 I, I have no idea. No, I don't wanna take a stab at it. No pun intended. Okay. Get it. Get it. No, I don't want to take a stab at it.
Speaker 2 00:03:07 <laugh>
Speaker 1 00:03:07 That's sad. Little dark, right? A little dark. All right. What? No, I have no idea.
Speaker 2 00:03:11 It's a trick question. Israel is the first nation
Speaker 1 00:03:14 Destroyed. Dang it. I was almost gonna say that you were on it just because I was, uh, I was like, I wonder if Jason's throwing a, a curve ball at me.
Speaker 2 00:03:21 Yeah. Cuz you think about it. When, when they were willing to stone Caleb for bringing, uh, a report. Now here's the thing. When, when God takes Israel out of Egypt, he intentionally sends them to the red sea. Lest they find the people, they, they could have taken a direct route, gotten their two years quicker, right? Maybe not two years, but quite a bit quicker, but they would've seen the strength of the people they were going against and, and been intimidated and, and kind of shunned away from it. And even as they're going in, God's going to mention several times in Deuteronomy, you guys are the smallest of all of these other nations out there. So, so when he sends these spies in it's, it's really Israel's request that they send somebody out one from each tribe to kind of verify what the Lord's saying, that the land is good.
Speaker 2 00:04:10 The spies are supposed to be looking at the quality of the land when they come back and talk about the quality of the people. Of course, they're more numerous. That's the point that it's, I don't know. It's kind of interesting. Okay. And we'll get into that in a little bit more detail. But when, when they, when Caleb is trying to bolster them up and say, yes, but that's why we have God, God did what he did with the red sea. He destroyed the Egyptians. He can take care of us, let's have faith. And they said, let's stone him. Unless he gets us all killed <laugh>.
Speaker 2 00:04:43 And, and so God passes judgment on Israel. First, none of you save Caleb. And then later, none of you save Joshua will be coming into the promised land. I will slay all of you and not all of them die of natural causes. We've got, we've got the serpents that are biting them. We've got the fire that breaks forth. We've got the sink hole that swallows them up. We've got all sorts of plagues. And then the ones that go into fight without G without God, when Moses and the, a stay in the camp and they get destroyed. A lot of 'em perished by the store. A lot of 'em perished by, by God's hand. But the point is men, women, and children from that generation all must be exterminated. Before Israel can go into land. They're the first nation that suffers the wrath of God in preparation for Israel to actually become a country. So unless you look at it and say, oh, Israel's kind of this holier than thou they're gonna be no, they had to go through the same kind of purge that the other nations were going to be subjected
Speaker 1 00:05:48 To the cleansing of the inner vessel.
Speaker 2 00:05:50 Yes. Yes. And I love that. You said that the cleanse the inner vessel first, before you can go clean outside, fantastic. Let's keep going next. As they're going, God tells them this is the land of em, which, which Edem meaning red coming from Esau, right. Jacob's brother. And he says, you can't take even one foot's breath of that land, which, which kind of reminds me of, of NATO. Like we will defend every inch of our land with this whole whatever's going on over in Eastern Europe. Right? But God says not even one foot's breath, can you take of their land? You're gonna be, you can buy food from them. And, and it also says buy water. But interesting enough, it's not that big of a deal, but the Hebrew word is not the same. When they say buy water, it says buy food. And then the Hebrew word for water is dig water.
Speaker 2 00:06:42 Mm. And you're like, dig water. Well, digging Wells. So you can dig Wells for money. You can work for money. You can work for food, you can exchange and, and purchase your things. But it has to be a fair relationship with them because I, the Lord have established and promised that land to them. That is their promised land. And I don't want you to mess with them, not even one bit. And there's one other nation that, that kind of has this prohibition and that's em, and em comes from Mo uh, excuse me, I eat em, <laugh> E Em's Esau. The other nation is Moab. Moabs coming from lot and lot's family. So you have lot Abraham's brother that God is protecting and saying, this is their land. And I've given it to them. Don't mess with it. And this is Esau's land. I've given it to them and don't mess with it.
Speaker 2 00:07:32 And something I find interesting about these promises is God said that the original inhabitants of the land of Edem and the land of Moab were giants and fierce people that they had to destroy in order to take that land for them as well. So Israel's not the first country to be coming and doing this. In fact, they're the last EV everyone else is kind of established. And you think of Israel as being this righteous example, if they're so righteous, why do they take 'em 400 years? How come these other nations are already established and protected by the Lord and guaranteed their land? Israel's kind of a late bloomer in the field here, which I find kind of interesting. Okay. Next is they're going. One of the first challenges that they're gonna have is up against a OG. The, I apparently he is the original, the OG.
Speaker 2 00:08:27 He is the OG. He, he is, uh, a giant, his, his bed is about 13 and a half, 14 feet long. They say a cubit. So if you don't know what a cubic is, it's the length from the tip of your finger, to your elbow, which is roughly about a foot and a half in, in that time measurement. And his bed's about six feet wide. The interesting thing about Aug when they call him a giant is they're not using neem. The word that we were talking about with the giants in Genesis, it's a different race of giants. This is the, the RHA, uh, the RHA Nele means the fallen ones. RHA is kind of like the healed ones. Hmm. And, and I don't know, it's I giants is going to be playing a role throughout the Bible. They say, Aug is the last of his race, but we're going to see giants obviously with David when he slays Goliath.
Speaker 2 00:09:20 But later David is gonna be doing battles with, with giants as well. So they, they kind of exist as antagonists throughout the Bible, whatever they are, whoever they are. But the, the giants are often portrayed as enemies to Israel and kind of a physical depiction of, of how they are outsized outmanned and really the underdog in a lot of these situations. And I think the underdog is an important part so much. So let's go to Deuteronomy seven, seven and get to that Deuteronomy seven seven says the Lord did not set his love upon you nor choose you because you were more in number than any people for you were the fewest of all people going to the promised land and end. And, and Nate, you, you know, this, I, I, I hope everybody kind of recognizes this or realizes this. What is the promised land? Symbolic of garden of Eden garden of Eden paradise, uh, returning to the presence of God. And, and if you will, the promised land, I'd like to think of this as returning to live with God after death. Okay? So this, this celestial kingdom, if you will, or heaven, or, or how you want to define this, the promised land is the final rest. Being able to return to the paradise.
Speaker 2 00:10:47 If you are <affirmative>, if you are outnumbered and he chooses you because you were the fewest and you're going against impossible odds, I look at that and compare that to death. Death to me is something that's somewhat scary. I think it's scary for everybody. I, on some level, I, I, I would think so. I don't wanna speak for everyone, but for me, having never experienced it, having never seen what's on the other side, I know there's lots of testimonies out there. I, and, and Christ talks about it. And we, we can read about it, but not having experienced it firsthand. It makes it kind of still a, a big question. Mark, what is life after death? Do we continue to exist after death? Or is it just like closing your eyes and, and ceasing to exist? Maybe how lights just go out the lights, just go out, even closing your eyes.
Speaker 2 00:11:37 Isn't a fair way to try to imagine death because your, your mind is still thinking you still exist. What is it like to be dead? It's an interesting challenge. And, and assuming that we believe in a life after death and a resurrection, then do we believe that we will be in heaven? Because you think of all of the people out there, and you read about the people in the scriptures and you say, Shirley, Abraham's going to be there. And Moses is going to be there. Am I on par with Abraham and Moses? How can I feel like I belong? Like that seems like the cards are stacked against me. And the point of this first is God saying, I didn't choose you because you were the largest or the greatest, or because the odds were in your favor. I chose you because the cards were stacked against you because you were the fewest of all people.
Speaker 2 00:12:32 Would you even need me? If you could do this on your own. That's the whole purpose of Christ coming and dying is because he knew that the cards were stacked against us. As we look at heaven. And if we feel intimidated and if we feel like death is the end, or we can't get past this, or the, the odds are stacked against us or feeling despair or desperate or, or, or worried, that's why God exists. And that's why he loves us. And that's why he chose us because we are the fewest because we do need his help. And that's a big part of his message in Deuteronomy where where's the faith. If you don't need God, where's the belief. Where's, what's the purpose of him coming and dying and, and being willing to save us, rise us up. If we could do this all on our own, of course, it's hard.
Speaker 2 00:13:24 Of course the cards are stacked against us. That's why he's here. Love it. Let's keep going. Right, Nick. Next, I kind of chuckle at this one, as we're in Deuteronomy seven verse nine and 10 know, therefore that the Lord like God, he is God, the faithful God, which keepeth covenants, as opposed to maybe his faithless followers who don't always keep the <laugh> dang, ouch, ouch. Um, keep with the covenants and mercy with those that love him and keep his commandments to a thousand generations. Look how, how kind he is merciful to a thousand generations. But look at what happens if you don't follow and repay with them that hate him to their face to destroy them. He will not be slack to them that hated him. He will repay them to his face. I don't know that, that in your face kind of way of speaking, like, yeah, I'll love you for a thousand generations, unless you hate me, then I will take it right to your face. Yeah. I like it. It's there's no backstabbing in your face. I will give it to you in your face. Cool. All right. Sorry. I just, that was kind of a funny one for me. Some of the blessings that he gives to those that follow him is versus 13 through 15, and he will love the, and bless the, and the reason why I wanna just, just give you a little context to why I wanna read blessings.
Speaker 2 00:14:53 When we talk about faith, faith comes by hearing, um, that's what it says in the new Testament. Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of the Lord. We can't believe if we don't know what to believe in. And, and faith we say is the principle of action. It's what Mo motivates us to do something. So by knowing what to believe in helps motivate us to, to be able to believe. And so I want to really be clear. These are some of the blessings to Israel, particularly if you, if you believe to be part of Israel, these are blessings for you. And once you hear and know them, then maybe it gives you the faith to seek these blessings out, or to believe that God can give you this. So verse 13 and he will love the all right. I think that first of all is a really big blessing. Believe that God will love you and bless the, and multiply the, he will also bless the fruit of th womb and the fruit of th land th corn and th wine and thine oil, the increase of kin and the flock of th sheep and the land, which he swear unto thy fathers to give the, these, aren't just, I'm gonna give you a nice house in heaven with a pool and, and, uh, I, I don't know what else do you have in heaven? Like,
Speaker 1 00:16:10 Uh, tennis court,
Speaker 2 00:16:11 Tennis court, I'll throw into sports court, tennis court and, uh, and a basement full of great stuff. It's, it's not just <laugh>, it's not just like, Hey, I, you got blessings in heaven and you're building your house. These are very temporal blessings.
Speaker 1 00:16:26 Yes.
Speaker 2 00:16:27 Interesting. I will give you increase here. You shall be blessed above all people that shall not be male or female barren among you or among your cattle. And, and I know that there are people that do struggle with that, but it's an interesting that he blesses Israel with this and the Lord shall take away from the all sickness. And we'll put none of the evil disease of Egypt, which they'll knows upon the, but will lay them upon all them that hate the, and now shall consume all the people, which the Lord that God shall deliver. The th eyes shall have, uh, no pity upon them. Neither shall they'll serve their guys. So we're gonna get into kind of the distractions. They go and establish them as a people. But some of that blessing there at the Beau at the beginning, I find very beautiful and, and hopeful. I, I know a lot of us struggle with maybe feelings of acceptance as the Lord love me and, and struggle financially, temporarily, as we're trying to figure out our place in life. I, I don't know how people do it today with housing prices, as they're trying to figure out how to pay for school, how to get started, how to have kids, how to have a family and then a, a mortgage just seems impossible. I don't know how you prosper, but this is a, a promise from the Lord, this, this idea of prosperity,
Speaker 1 00:17:37 Which I think is a great, um, thing to just briefly touch on we're. I think it's, it's sometimes easy to go. Hey, we can, um, we can look for all of these huge blessings in the life to come. And, um, you know, anything that, anything that doesn't really go on our way, you know, or anything that doesn't go our way, this life it's like, well, it's okay because all of the blessings are coming after this life or whatever. I think it's actually a really beautiful and generous thing for God to say, no, this life is also important and being happy. And this life is also important. And me proving to you in things that you can see day to day can help build your faith. That my promises hold true also for the things after this life, right? Like it's a good chance for God to show us, even now that, that he is that he keeps his end of the bargain and that, that he is, and that we really do have things to look forward in the next life. And we can see the proof of that by, by following and receiving so many blessings in this life.
Speaker 2 00:18:49 Yeah.
Speaker 1 00:18:51 Let's keep going.
Speaker 2 00:18:52 Well, coupling that maybe is a word of caution. Okay. So let's, uh, skip to Deuteronomy chapter eight, verse 11, and look at what the Lord says here. Beware that they'll forget not the Lord, thank God in not keeping his commandments and his judgements and his statues, which I commanded this day. L when now has eaten and art full and now has built goodly houses and wet they're in. And when they herds and they F FLOX multiply and they silver, and that gold is multiplied and all that thou hast is multiplied. Then thine heart be lifted up and now forget the Lord, thy God. And I'm gonna skip a little bit 17 and thou say in nine heart, my power and the might of mine hand have gotten me this
Speaker 1 00:19:43 Wealth. Yes, it's the pride cycle baby,
Speaker 2 00:19:47 But thou shall remember the Lord. Thank God for it. Is he that giveth the power to get wealth, that he may establish his covenant. So going back, his covenant, he just promised that he would give you wealth, but the power, he says, it's by your hand that you do it, but your hand did it because he gave you the power to do it. It's still on you to see those blessings. If you're playing, if you're praying for these blessings and sitting around doing nothing to make it happen, that's not how it works. I will give you power that you may, you may do it, but don't forget me that you say, oh, I did it on my own. And Brigham young said, I'm just, I'm just gonna bring this quote in here. The worst fear that I have about the members of this church. So this is the worst fear he has is that they will get rich in this country, forget God and his people wax fat and kick themselves out of the church and go to hell <laugh>. This people will stand mobbing, robbing poverty in all manner of persecution and be true. But my greatest fear for them is that they cannot stand wealth. Yep. And yet they have to be tried with riches.
Speaker 1 00:21:11 Yep.
Speaker 2 00:21:12 That's that's where the Lord's taking them. I'm telling you right now, I'm going to bless you. If you believe I'm gonna strengthen you, you're gonna do all sorts of powerful things. And if you, for one minute, think that it was just you, that did it without me. That's not good.
Speaker 1 00:21:29 I think that that's though, that that's why the Lord sets, uh, little, uh, um, I don't know, speed limits along the way. Right. We have tithing, we have fast offerings. We have a lot of these things. So that, um, part of the principles I feel like of those are very like practical purposes, or like there's a practical, um, point behind those. Right? So many of those things are to hopefully continue to help us remember that, Hey, this is mine and not yours. I'm just letting you have this. It's it's because, you know, and it's because of me, Hey, and not only that, but I will continue to increase what you can have responsible stewardship over. If you can continue to prove to me that you will use it to build the kingdom and to help the poor and the needy and the hungry. Right? Yeah. I guess it's, it's, it's a nice reminder of there's spiritual lessons to learn with those, but there's also very logistical, uh, temporal lessons that we can learn from those commandments as well.
Speaker 2 00:22:34 Well, and I, and I had a wise young man's leader when I was a kid, Kevin toy, and, and he taught a lesson that for whatever reason, he is really stuck with me all these years. He said that people are like sheep. They only move when they are scared or hungry. And, and you, you hear the saying, there are no atheists and foxholes, like, if you're scared, you know, you're gonna get in an accident. All of a sudden you freak out and you, and it's like,
Speaker 1 00:22:58 You start believing in God real, you,
Speaker 2 00:22:59 You, you pray right then, right? Yeah. Like, oh, God help me. You, you believe.
Speaker 1 00:23:04 Yes.
Speaker 2 00:23:05 And that's the scared part. But then also the hungry part, like if you've sinned, you've fallen, it's almost the same motivation you feel that need that desire. That whole God's. Yeah. I didn't choose you cuz you were the largest. I chose you cuz you were the fewest because you needed
Speaker 1 00:23:21 Me needed me. Yep.
Speaker 2 00:23:23 But how do we overcome that and pray when we don't need them. And, and, and as I was thinking about this, think about the 10 lepers that Christ healed and as they were going on their way, two of the 10 as they're healed, turned back to give thanks because you look at them and it's not the majority, but how many people, when we ask God for a blessing, do we ever hold a fast to show gratitude for, for that blessing having come through? Do we remember him when times are good? And when he blesses us, how sincere are our prayers? I know when, when I've done something wrong or I'm, I'm feeling like a large, a large weight is coming and crushing me, I'm on my knees and I'm in tears and I'm praying. And this is like the longest, most sincere prayer of my life. I mean, you even, even the drunks, you know, like I will never drink another drink again, if you can get me through this night. Yes. But how sincere and deep are those prayers when there's nothing to pray about. And is there ever nothing to pray about?
Speaker 2 00:24:37 How do you, how do you reach that level of depth? How do you become that level of sincerity, that relationship with God, to where our prayers like, you know, who did it, job job, who's offering sacrifices when everything was good, not just for him, but for all of my kids, just in case they sin and forget to do, to, to do a sacrifice themselves. Think of how sincere that guy's prayers were before everything went south on him. He knew it. He figured it out. I think that's one of our hardest challenges and, and I don't need to harp on this much more, but that's, that's something I felt was very powerful in this. Uh, the whole purpose of Deuteronomy, and maybe I should have started with this. Deuteronomy is gonna be very repetitive as it goes through the, the Exodus and Leviticus and numbers, because what you're doing is Deuteronomy is this covenant, this retelling, it's the final book of Moses.
Speaker 2 00:25:37 The first five books Deuteronomy is the end. It is the covenant that God is establishing with Israel now. And as part of the covenant, you have to have the context and he's going through and repeating everything. Now that they've gone through the 40 years. Now this, the historical context of going through everything, this states, the foundation for which the covenant is going to be built upon. And as part of that, covenant, God is saying, don't forget me when times are good. Are good. All right. Next, uh, I think maybe just interesting to note Deuteronomy chapter seven, verse 25, because this is going to play into Joshua when the guy steals some of the gold, some of the booty and, and gets kind of in trouble and all of Israel stuffers because of it. Okay. Um, verse 25, the graven images of their gods shall ye burn with fire thou shall not desire the silver or gold that is on them, on who they're talking about, the grave and images of their gods. So that gods of these other nations were decorated with silver and gold.
Speaker 2 00:26:48 So it's not just taking silver and gold money from, from the town. It's taking offerings that were offered to strange gods and keeping those and holding onto it that that was consecrated or dedicated to another. God don't have any part of that. That should be destroyed. So just a little bit of context there to that story, Deuteronomy eight. Um, it, it does talk about a few blessings that maybe we didn't notice so much. Uh, yes, the, the parting of the red sea was fantastic in the manana and the birds and the delivery from death. But I, this just is maybe a simple, small thing. Verse four, thera it waxed, not old upon the neither did I foot swell these 40 years. Hmm. That's kind of a cool little thing. Sometimes I can't walk for four days without my feet, you know, hurting or whatever.
Speaker 1 00:27:38 Like I I'm with you. I can't tie my shoe without my, my body hurting.
Speaker 2 00:27:44 And, and to have how, like, what shirts do you have Nate from 40 years ago? Oh yeah.
Speaker 1 00:27:48 Right. Are you kidding me? <laugh> I can't fit into any of my clothes from that long ago, but yes,
Speaker 2 00:27:53 Sometimes it's the small things. And when the Lord explains the verse three, any humbly and suffered lead to hunger and fed the with manana and that Annuus not, what's the purpose of this. He says that he might make the know that man does not live by bread alone, but by every word that precedes forth from the mouth of God. And, and we've talked about that with the, the golden calf versus the bras serpent. I, I think God was trying to convey the point. You can't just live on the commandments. You can't just live on the law. You can't just live on, on bread. If you want life, you're gonna have to listen to what I am asking you to do and follow my word, man. Must live by the word of God.
Speaker 1 00:28:33 I love it. Let's keep going. Right.
Speaker 2 00:28:34 Let's go Deuteronomy chapter nine.
Speaker 1 00:28:37 Okay.
Speaker 2 00:28:38 And in here, I, I just wanna make a clear point with Israel. When they say verse three, excuse me, verse four, speak, not Thon nine heart for my righteousness. The Lord has brought me in to possess this land, but for the wickedness of these nations, the Lord to drive them out before me, not for the righteousness or for the uprightness of th heart, thus th go to possess their land, but for the ness of this nation. And then one more time in verse six, understand therefore that the Lord, thank God. Give it the, not this good land to possess it for. They righteousness for thou art, a stiff neck.
Speaker 1 00:29:11 It's almost like what I've been saying this whole time. <laugh> right. It's almost like the Lord is saying, look you knucklehead, please. Don't misunderstand. I'm not helping you out and giving you this because you're awesome. I'm, I'm doing this because luckily for you, the people that are already in this land are somehow worse knuckleheads than you are. So let me just be crystal clear. This isn't something that you should be like, Hey, we must be doing something right. No, you still need to figure it out. And you're still knucklehead. So I'm just glad that I'm, I'm being, uh, uh, vindicated here. This is great.
Speaker 2 00:29:50 Well, and I think the Lord is trying to fix the perspective of the story. I think so many times we look at the story of Israel and think, oh, well, God just loved Israel so much. He was willing to wipe out all of these people he didn't care about. And he's like saying, no, absolutely not. Look, he gave these people 400 years to try to repent and put their stuff together. It's not like Israel just went out there. All of a sudden he had to wait until the time came, that that they had sufficiently gone so far astray. And after as many warnings, as he could as many profits, as he said, anything he could do to try to reclaim this people has, has been exhausted and spent. And, and now they're at the point of no return. I'm doing this and let this serve as a warning to you. It's not because you're righteous. I'm not gonna wipe you out just because some other people's better than you. And I love them. And I'm gonna come in and wipe you out. It's because they're wicked. And if you forget me and go wicked, the same thing
Speaker 1 00:30:47 Will happen to you's gonna happen to you. And I think that that's the life lesson from this, right? Like this is the, this is the actual day to day lesson from this is that yes. We believe that this amazing land that we live on was, um, was part of a divine plan, right? Like that, that, that God absolutely helped curate this country because of its freedom because of its religious freedom and all those things too. And at that same time, we're, I feel like that warning applies very much to us, just as much as the children of Israel in this situation, which is, and by the way, just because you've gotten, it doesn't mean that you just get to do now, whatever you want and that you will, you know, by right. Just get to hang onto this forever. No, no, no. You can absolutely get taken care of as well. You know?
Speaker 2 00:31:39 Absolutely. And I think that warning applies to us just as much the, the don't forget God and the downside, but also the, Hey, you, you may think that you are righteous at the beginning, but how righteous were you? Really? You look at those, you look at our forefathers and, and I'm, I'm proud of our heritage and I'm proud of what they've done, but I'm also ashamed of a lot of the things that they did do. I don't, I don't know that they were always the most upright, wonderful people. I don't think God displaced the whole continent to, to make room for some righteous, worthy, wonderful godlike people.
Speaker 1 00:32:12 Yeah. <laugh>, that's true
Speaker 2 00:32:15 That I, you know, we've, we've got to remember to keep our, our beginnings humble. We're not, we're not there. The cards still are stacked against us. We're stiff, naked. Let's be humble about that. Lest we forget God and, and suffer the same fate of, of whatever groups come before us. And what other groups gonna come after us? I mean, Israel got wiped out on several occasions. We'll talk about this year in the old Testament.
Speaker 1 00:32:39 Yep.
Speaker 2 00:32:41 All right.
Speaker 1 00:32:42 The one thing though that I will say to vouch for the greatness of our forefathers though, is that for whatever it's worth, they were also though very clear that they were God fearing people and knew that they wouldn't be able to do this without God's help. So in their mistakes, they at least, um, which some of which are again like unbelievably, you know, I mean, again with slavery and all of those things too, it's just like, I mean, those are, those are just massive, you know, scars that will always be, be on us as a nation. But luckily even it through all of that, they did establish that it's because of God's will, that this country will be either great or not great it's and it's, and it's, it's going to be because of God and God alone. So
Speaker 2 00:33:35 It's a great point. And certainly I don't wanna take anything away from our forefathers,
Speaker 1 00:33:40 But I think it's also not, I don't think it, I think it would also be wrong, not to be honest as well, though. Right. And to the point that you're making yes, there, they were God fearing men and women, but they definitely weren't perfect. It's not like, it's not like there was a clear cut. Good. You know what I mean? Like good, perfect moral, awesome. Have, you know what I mean? Like <laugh> walking, it's hard walking the straightest of lines versus like the bad evil, corrupt, you know, evil demon possessed, you know, it's just like, no, that's, that's also not what it was either.
Speaker 2 00:34:15 And, and it's hard to judge a people when you, when you didn't have to live the lives they lived when you don't face the challenges that they faced and you're not, and you're not in the same shoes, living the same life from, from a very modern lens. It's very easy and comfortable to sit in our chairs and look back. It's true. When, when we don't have to go clear an acre of land and deal with a bunch of challenges that, that perhaps we're unfamiliar with. But at the same time, when you have witch trials and you look at their journals and, and who they're accusing of being Richy happens to be who hands the land that they want to own for the next business venture. Yeah. I mean, obviously let's not fool
Speaker 1 00:34:50 Ourselves. It's a problem. No, it's a problem. And I think that that's actually a really good way though, to, to kind of bridge these, these verses that we're reading about to something that we're closer to and a little bit more familiar with. So
Speaker 2 00:35:04 Fantastic.
Speaker 1 00:35:05 Let's keep going.
Speaker 2 00:35:07 Okay. The Levis, uh, God says in, uh, Deuteronomy chapter 10 Deuteronomy, he says verse eight, nine at the time, the Lord separated the tribe of Levi to bear the arc of the covenant of the Lord to stand before the Lord, to minister unto him and to bless his name and to this day where for Levi hath no part nor inheritance with his brethren, the Lord is his inheritance. According as the Lord that God promised him. So when you guys think about the 12 tribes of Israel and you look at the map and it shows Manas, Manas, Manassa, and Efram, and you say, wait a second, Joseph got a double portion. How is it still 12 tribes? Levi did not get any land. That's where you still get the, the round number of 12 while including a double portion for Joseph Levi on the other hand is the Lord's portion. And what they did is they lived throughout all of Israel and they would act as priests for the family. So a family would have a Levi that could come and live with them and, and could help them with the priestly things that they needed to do. And, and they would give them a place to live and stay and, and they were kind of throughout all the different tribes. So just for, for how the tribes work for what
Speaker 1 00:36:23 It's worth, this, this, and this kind of dates back to when, um, um, Jacob is, um, Israel is, is giving, is giving out blessings, right to the, to his different children. I think we read it even where he basically is like, you don't get, you know, when to, to Levi you, don't because of your, because of your decisions and choices you don't get. Am I misremembering this?
Speaker 2 00:36:50 I'm not sure.
Speaker 1 00:36:51 All right, I'm gonna go I'll I'll look it back. I know we've talked about this, but I know that when he was, when he was basically adopting E from Manas as, as equals to his sons and not his grandsons, I do remember him. I do remember him saying to, was it, was it wasn't Ruben? It was, it was, it was, uh,
Speaker 2 00:37:13 Simmy and Levi are the two that, that go and that's right. And, and kill all.
Speaker 1 00:37:18 That's the that's right. And he said to them, in those chapters to SIM Simian and Levi, because of your, because of what you've done here, you are, you are not entitled to the same, to the same equal split as your brothers.
Speaker 2 00:37:32 But see Simian still gets an inheritance.
Speaker 1 00:37:35 Simian got Simian lucked out, apparently,
Speaker 2 00:37:37 And, and Ruben also gets admonished because he slept with his dad's Conine,
Speaker 1 00:37:41 That's what it was. Right. So, but does Ruben still have a
Speaker 2 00:37:43 Tribe, but Ruben still has a tribe and Simian still has a tribe. So that's why I don't think it's necessarily coming to this. Um, but I do think
Speaker 1 00:37:51 Because Joseph doesn't have one himself it's through his two kids, right?
Speaker 2 00:37:55 Yeah. Joseph doesn't have one either. You're not gonna see Joseph on the map. It, he gets two, but it's through his children E from and
Speaker 1 00:38:01 Manassa. Okay. That makes sense. So
Speaker 2 00:38:03 Joseph's not included, Levi's not included E from and NASA take their spot. There you go. Joseph has his two, uh, and Levi's not counted because he's, he lives throughout all of Israel. And, and what it really comes to is the first born son was going to be God's when, when the, the plagues of Egypt came and the firstborn was slain throughout all the land, but they were redeemed because of the blood of, of the lamb. So Christ's sacrifice redeemed that firstborn. So it didn't have to die. So where all the firstborn were going to die, they had to dedicate the firstborn to the Lord. But rather than do that, they dedicated one tribe to the Lord. And so Levi becomes the sacrificial tribe that Israel is offering up to the Lord so that all the rest can inherit the land and this image of Christ, because this is the priesthood, right? The representation of Christ Christ sacrificed himself. So that Israel might have an inheritance in the kingdom of heaven. Again, this idea of the promised land, being a heavenly place. That that's how I like to.
Speaker 1 00:39:12 No, that's fantastic. That makes a lot more sense.
Speaker 2 00:39:15 And, and it is cool. Moses is going to give all of the tribes a blessing just like Jacob did, as you were referring to in Genesis 50. And we probably won't get into the, too many details on that, but let's go to an interesting verse. Deuteronomy 10, 14, the Deuteronomy has got some really interesting verses if you think about it, theologically and, and just a little bit deeper here. So verse 14, behold, the heaven and the heaven of heavens is the Lords. Like, wait a second. Heaven has a heaven. And, and think about the temple. You've got a holy place. And, and the holy place has a curtain to separate it to from the outside world. And as you're coming through the curtain, it has SBUs embroidered in it. So you have to pass through gerbo and a flaming sword to get inside. And inside you have the Manor, which is shaped like a tree.
Speaker 2 00:40:12 And so it's supposed to represent the tree of life. Now you go into revelation. As John's taking a tour of the heavenly temple, he hears a voice calling him and he looks, and he sees the manure, but then he sees Christ appear in the midst of the manure and say, behold, I am alpha omega saying, I am the tree of life. Compare this to the book of Mormon. When Lee Nefi wants to know the vision that his father saw when he sees a tree of life. And he, he says, what desires thou, I want to know what the tree is, what it means. And the angel says, look, and he looks, and he beholds Mary, the mother of God. And, and he sees this Virgin and she sees that, that she becomes pregnant. And then she gives birth to the savior. And he says, now, do you know what the tree is?
Speaker 2 00:41:01 And he says, yes. Now I understand it is the, it is the love of God for God's to love the world that he sent his son. So his son being the tree, and you think about the fruit of Christ's mission, his fruit, his, the product of his life, his sacrifice is the atonement. So the fruit of the tree of life, if you partake of the flesh of Christ, cuz Christ said, when he was here in his mortal ministry, if you don't eat my body and drink my blood, you can't live. And many people looked at that as a hard saying and stopped following him after that day. Cuz that's pretty brutal. But if you think about it as a sacrament, as you take his name upon you, if you eat his flesh and be drink his blood, trying to internalize and become like him put on his appearance, be like him.
Speaker 2 00:41:47 Like Jacob Beisel. That is, that is following him. That is the, and the fruit of that tree is eternal life. So going into the temple, you've got Cher them, guarding it. You've got this image of the, the Manor, which is this tree of life, going back into the presence of the garden of Eden Eden, that's all in the holy place. But then you have a holy of Holies, which is inside the holy place, almost like a heaven of heavens, which is also separated by Cher them. And you come in through and there's also, cherm in the arc of the covenant that's inside of there and sitting between the cherm, it's a mercy seat where God himself sits on the throne. So again, you have this image of the tree of life, but instead of an image of a tree, it's God himself sitting on the throne.
Speaker 2 00:42:35 It's a, it's a replication of the holy place, just on a more personal, more significant instead of imagery. Like when, when God is talking about Moses and a Aaron and Miriam and a Aaron and Miriam and saying, Hey, we're prophets too. We can have visions and dreams. And God says, you know, prophets can have these visions and dreams and try to understand it. But with Moses I speak face to face. There is no confusion or misinterpretation. It's very plain. It's a new level. It's a heaven within a heaven. It's a holy place within a holy place, a holy of Holies. And so I like this verse. I like that imagery of a holy of Holies, a heaven within a heaven or a heaven of heavens being there. There's more than just this heaven and, and for what it's worth and Deuteronomy 32, it talks about the lowest hell.
Speaker 2 00:43:26 So it's not just a hell either. The there's just, and a lot of Christianity, this idea of just two, this heaven and this hell, but even here, early on in Deuteronomy, in the book of Moses, we see these separations and these gradations and this just as you have different levels of holiness is within the temple. You have different degrees of exaltation and holiness within the heavens. Sweet. Okay. Sorry. That's kind of a long little ran. No, I like it. All right. Let's go to another really cool verse in this same chapter, Deuteronomy 10, 14 through 17, and this, this is gonna get us to the, the circumcision eight. The part you were so excited about can't wait. <laugh> all right. Verse 14, behold, the heaven and the heaven of heavens. This is what we're reading is the Lord's thank God. The earth also with all that they're in is so everyone within earth is gods verse 15.
Speaker 2 00:44:21 It says only, but in Hebrew you look at the footnote, 15 a it says Hebrew yet. So even though all the earth is gods yet, the Lord has delight in the th fathers to love them. And he chose their seed after them. And even you above all people as it is this day, even though all the people are the Lords, there's something different about this people. And what is the difference? The difference is the covenant. What's the difference between Israel and the rest of the world. It's the covenant that God has made with them. So his covenant people, there's a little bit different. And he explains that with circumcision, circumcision, being a sign of the covenant. So verse 16, circumcised, therefore the four skin. Now this is where it gets a little different of your heart and be no more stiff naked. So I wanna talk about that and, and talk about what it means to circums your heart, the four skin of your heart. So the word circum size In Hebrew is mu it means to cut short, to cut down or to destroy.
Speaker 1 00:45:39 Hmm.
Speaker 2 00:45:40 And then four skin or law is, uh, is kind of associated with fruit. You look at the tree, the, the fruit for the first three years. So it talks about this in the lav. Moses, if you plant a tree for the first three years, you have to destroy the fruit. And it actually says, circum size the tree. Hmm. By destroying, cutting off this fruit for the first three years, don't eat it, it's garbage. And then after three years, then you can take of the fruit. So if you're talking now in terms of a heart, you've gotta destroy the first fruits of the heart or the first inklings of the heart. Or maybe I look at this, the heart of your youth, where you were stiff, naked. You look at Israel and Israel was very stiff, naked. They murmured, they complained. They went through this, this transitionary period where they had to learn to be humble, to be God's people destroy that, destroy that, and, and cut off that worldly part of your heart, where you keep trying to put yourself first, where you keep trying to, to chase after your lusts And offer that up as a sacrifice to God and give me a broken heart, a destroyed heart, a humble heart.
Speaker 1 00:47:07 Have you ever heard, uh, first of all, this fantastic insight into this, this I love, this is why I love doing this podcast with you or things like this is how it all kind of starts making deeper connections. You've you've heard like the, uh, um, you know, how do you, how do you prune a Rose Bush, right. Have you heard this before? I have a bunch of roses out in front of our house, but apparently, apparently when a Rose Bush, the first flower that comes up, you have to clip it off. Right. And the, the principle is, I mean, functionally, if you don't do that, all of the nutrients are basically gonna be sucked up into that one, that first flower, right. That, that blooms and the rest of the Bush is gonna suffer. Right. Um, because that first one is basically gonna hog everything. And that, uh, if you, if you clip that one off, then you'll have an entire Bush full of, of awesome roses.
Speaker 1 00:48:08 And it's hard though, when you think to yourself like, well, why am I clipping off this beautiful thing? Mm-hmm <affirmative> right. It's like, why am I, why am I sacrificing this, this beautiful flower? This doesn't make any sense. And it's like, well, you're doing that for, for the long term. Good of, for the long term, good of the rest of the Rose Bush. Right. And it's interesting when you talk again, when you're, you're talking about this idea of, of yeah. Pruning the fruit or, or basically being willing to sacrifice things that even, you know, you can say, you could say like, you know, the, the sins of the youth or whatever like that, but, but it also could just be, I mean, fruit's probably delicious, even if it's the first year of fruit, I know that we've planted trees and they're, they're a couple of 'em are fine within the first three years.
Speaker 1 00:48:58 Right. It's not like that. The fruit's bad. Yeah. It's it's and that's maybe, maybe that's not the principle behind, this is maybe that it's not that you're cutting off something that's bad or evil or wicked or, or, or taste bad or whatever. It's maybe it's, it's the idea of, of sometimes we're even asked to sacrifice beautiful things and good things and, and things that aren't necessarily wrong. Right. But that the, the, the principle behind sacrifice is we, what are we willing to, what are we willing to put on that altar? What are we willing to give up? What are we willing to put trust in the Lord with? Right. Are we, are we, are we trusting enough with our rosebush to go, oh man, I know for sure. I would at least have this one. Good flower. I'm I'm scared to, I'm scared to sacrifice this one for the potential.
Speaker 1 00:49:52 Good of the rest of this, this Bush. I love that imagery do, but do we have, do we have the faith to go, man, if I'm hungry and I have a fruit tree that's producing fruit for three years, do I have the faith to go, okay, I guess I'm just going to, I'm gonna prune this Bush for three years and sacrifice all of the potential life, saving food from it to put faith in this idea that this is a commandment from God. And he keeps his ends of promises. And if he says do this and you will be fine, then we rely on that. Right. And that we, we sacrifice things that aren't necessarily even bad, but that we're willing to sacrifice whatever we're asked to. Well,
Speaker 2 00:50:39 And I, I love how it relates to circumcision. When you're talking about the, the feelings that you feel down there, the lost, or the desire. And when you're talking about the long game, the willingness to give up that instant gratification, right? Yes. For, for something that's more mature,
Speaker 1 00:51:00 Which again is something that's not wrong. Right. Right. Like sex isn't wrong. That's not bad. And, and there's sometimes confus confusion of religious communities about this. Luckily I grew up in a family where my parents were like, no, no, no, this isn't a bad thing. Now you, you're definitely not supposed to be doing it right now. You know what I mean? Like, you need to understand, like you said, the long game of this, but this is still that point though, right? Is that you're not, you're not going well, this is bad. So it's easy to sacrifice cuz by the way, it's easy to sacrifice bad things. Right. It's easy that, what, what faith does that take to go? I'm going to give up, um, smoking crack. I don't know. You know what I mean? So like this I'm just like whatever that example is, right? Like it's, I'm going to sacrifice this thing. That's obviously wrong is it's is it's harder like with what you said and again, in exact relations circumstances, like no I'm going to sacrifice the, the Caral desires of my physical body until, until it's in an appropriate situation or relationship, right?
Speaker 2 00:52:08 Yeah. I'm, I'm going to not engage in sexual activity upfront sacrifice that portion of it. And until I can establish a relationship of trials until I can a covenant relationship to where I can dedicate that now a hundred percent to the person that I am engaged with and married with rather than, than spreading my seed all over, just giving into whatever lust I have.
Speaker 1 00:52:34 Well, and think about again, kind of to come back to that analogy of the rosebush, right. Is that, is that the rest is like, if you don't, if you don't trim that first, you know, if you don't prune that first flower and again, like, I'm sure there's some like, you know, like rose specialist out there somewhere. That's like, well actually, so I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm just, this is, this is what I read one time and I trust everything that I see on the internet. <laugh> I'm just kidding. I actually saw this in a book. So, so judge who the author of this book, but the idea is the rest of the Bush still might have flowers on it, but they're all gonna be puny and they're all gonna be weak. And they all won't be the fullest potential of this entire Bush, right.
Speaker 2 00:53:17 Or a fruit tree, all the saplings that just go shooting up and you gotta cut all those little off so that the plant's not and diverting so much energy to all of this, that it, the thing is produces
Speaker 1 00:53:25 Good free. But if you don't do that circumcising, there's still be, there'll still be fruit on it or there'll still be, there'll still be other rose roses on this Bush. They just won't be, they won't, they they'll, they won't get to experience like their fullest potential either. Right. And when you relate this back to some of these things, it's like, yes, you, you, we do still, I I'm, I'm trying to say this as, as like tactfully as possible, but it's like if we, if we can have the control, you know, to, to save, to, to sacrifice something that is, is an awesome, fun, beautiful thing, but sacrifice it for a relationship that is, you know, appropriate and ordained and, and, um, set apart. Then how much more amazing is that long game, the entire relationship, how much, how much greater is the entire, the entire rosebush instead of just the, the first, you know, the first nice looking thing that you know pops up.
Speaker 2 00:54:35 Absolutely. And we've been talking about the relationship between God and the relationship between a spouse, God. So many times uses a spousal relation that covenant marriage relationship to define his relationship with his church, with his bride, when we cheat on him, then it can commit adultery, that's us worshiping other gods. And so I think it's, it's neat that they use that, that imagery of the heart and, and circumcising it for God as, as being faithful and loyal to him. But also that imagery of circumcision also being used to describe something that's procreative with the relationship that we have with, with a spouse. When we looked at Israel, as they were about to go into the land. And we talked about PHAs last week, saving Israel by running, by running a fornicating couple through at the, the spear. What we didn't mention was that the other priests of Baal Peor were coming in and introducing a false religion that Moses also had to cut off that.
Speaker 2 00:55:35 So many times it goes hand in hand, this fidelity in, in your relationship, your marriage is also compared to fidelity with God and your worship and not going after other gods and being faithful and true to him. And so when we're talking about that relationship with God and circum our heart, stopping it short or cutting it from maybe pursuing other desires of our heart, that would pull us away from God, cutting some of those things out so that our relationship with God can be all the more beautiful, all the more mature, all the more worth it.
Speaker 1 00:56:11 And I, and, and as much as it might be kind of the surface level discussion, when we talk about the idea of circumcision is you have, you do have the functional cleanliness, right? Like there's, there is definitely still a part of that covenant that does represent the idea of cleanliness. And then if you ado, then once again, um, use that same symbolism with the circumcision of heart, you know, being pure of heart, being, being, being, um, clean in our desires, being, you know, repenting of our sins. And so there still is. I do still like how the idea of just literal cleanliness has, um, a lot of symbolism in both the physical, you know, act of circumcision and also the circumcision of heart.
Speaker 2 00:57:02 And it's neat. You, you bringing up the roses that it seems to be a law of nature that applies in, in many different instances, as you were telling that story last week, uh, at my parents' house, we saw all of a sudden, a swarm of bees just show up in his backyard. And we were talking about maybe 12 to 20,000 bees just out of nowhere. Yeah, it was crazy. And, and then they swarm a branch. The queen was right on there and then all the bees just kind of filled up this big, huge protective layer of bees, just hanging off this branch, protecting the queen. And, and so my dad called a beekeeper and said, Hey, what, what do I do? What is this? They explained that, you know, these bees will, will this time of year start swarming and try to find a new home as they break off, as the hive gets too large.
Speaker 2 00:57:45 And so they're looking for an ideal spot. They'll probably spend the night there on the branch and then see, send out their Scouts, try to find another place to go. And so he gave him a, a starter box and, and we took it, you know, shaked the branch off and dropped the, the queen into the box and all these bees go in there and just kinda see if they're gonna take this to their new home. And as we started learning more about beekeeping, sorry, I made a short story long. They say, the first here, you can't, you can't eat the honey because the bees have to produce enough for themselves to get them through the winter and live by. It's not until subsequent years that they're gonna have enough honey to where you can take and harvest some of that honey for yourself or sell it or whatever you're gonna do with the honey. But you still have to even leave enough honey for the bees to be able to eat and get through the winter with. So if you take that very first harvest of honey and eat it, then you've doomed all of those bees to death because they don't have the wherewith to get them through that, that first season, you have to sacrifice that first, that first load of honey, so that they can continue to produce for you for years to come.
Speaker 1 00:58:52 First of all, I don't think it's bad that we're talking about this and reinforcing this and harping on this, because I do think that this is such a universal actual day to day principle that you can take away from this. Right. And it, again, it's funny that of all the things that can spur this conversation at circumcision, right, which I'm sure is thrilling for everybody to talk about in a Sunday school gospel doctrine class. But, but what, what an important thing to all of these examples that I, I know I keep harping on, but, but truly means something at least to me, and that is what are we willing to sacrifice for something better. Right. And, um, you know, in my line of work and things like this, I have this discussion with people all the time. What are, are you, are you willing to sacrifice something that's good, even for something that's better?
Speaker 1 00:59:47 And I, I know that for me, that this, this means, you know, that this, this actually has a lot of very deep meaning and that a lot of people that it can come through the studio and stuff are always, Hey, you know, so, and so wants to offer me some, you know, whatever record deal that is whatever. And you, you, you know, Hey, gimme the details of this, the details may be kind of sketchy, right. And you go, okay, well, you know, I, I think that maybe if you just waited a little bit longer and built your things up, you would hold more cards in a negotiation setting, right. Mm-hmm <affirmative>, are you willing to maybe sacrifice the, the deal that maybe is good, but not great for the potential of something better? But the thing is, is maybe, maybe it's even more than that.
Speaker 1 01:00:33 Like I know for me in my life, I have sacrificed personally, um, a regular paycheck and a company paid health insurance and a 4 0 1 security K. And you know what I mean? It's like, and well, it's funny cuz even security. I don't say security. I used to say security, but I have friends that lose their jobs all the time unannounced. And I go, oh, I, my hustle is just as much secure as anybody else's right. But I mean, the idea of, I, I sacrifice the boats, I sacrifice some of those things, right. That are probably awesome for something that I want more. And that's freedom of my schedule. That's working with whoever I wanna work with. That's doing something that I love that's, you know what I mean? Like there's, there's, you know, my wife could easily say, Hey, maybe, you know, she could go and work and bring more income.
Speaker 1 01:01:27 And it's like, well, that would actually really help a lot financially. But for her she's like, I I'm, I'm willing to live off of less money so that I can be at home with our kids. Right. And so again, it's not even necessarily a sacrifice of something good for something bad, because again, that's too easy. It's like, it's, it's, it's a sacrifice of something that's good for something that you feel has more value. And so many times in life, I just truly believe that anything that's worth having requires a level of sacrifice. Right? Yes. And, and this is why, again, like, I, I am, I don't feel bad about harping on this topic whatsoever because I think that it's such a deep, really rich discussion of what actually is sacrifice. And we know that sacrifice is what, like the first law of heaven, you know, faith and faith and sacrifice and, and you just go, okay, well clearly these, these clearly this is important on a, on a bigger scale than, you know, that's, that's worth exploring a little bit, I guess.
Speaker 2 01:02:27 And, and I love the way that God himself describes why this is important. If you look at the very next verse for the Lord. So whenever says four it's for that reason, because, so why should we circums our hearts for the Lord, your God? So who is he? God, over talking specifically to Israel, Lord God of Israel, your God is God of God's. Mm.
Speaker 1 01:02:54 The holy of Holies. Yeah. The God of God's.
Speaker 2 01:02:58 So who's who is he? A God of, he just barely said your God, so who, who are you? If he is a God of gods? And he is your God, then what does that say about you?
Speaker 1 01:03:13 We come from divine heritage, baby.
Speaker 2 01:03:15 Yeah. I don't know any other way to interpret this. If he is saying that he is your God and saying in the same breath, a God of God's, then he's saying that you are God's. If you want to be like, God, you have to learn to cut yourself short, to, to sacrifice, to,
Speaker 1 01:03:34 To, to humble yourself,
Speaker 2 01:03:36 To humble yourself. And this goes all the way back to the very beginning between the plan that that one plan was, I will do your will. I will be humble. I will break myself down, cut myself short for, he was cut off from the land of the living in order to
Speaker 1 01:03:53 Be submitted to like the lowest of the lows of the lowest of humiliations and the pain and all of those things. Yes.
Speaker 2 01:03:58 And by doing that, I will be like, God, because that's what God is. He is here to serve us all where the other plan was, I will not cut myself short. I will be greater than all. I will extend myself. I will not circums. I will push above everything and try to be greater than all. And we can't be like, God, by trying to seize the power we have to, we have to humble ourselves, cut some of us off, shorten ourselves and be broken.
Speaker 1 01:04:27 And it's funny you say that too, because again, like, there's this idea of, you know, what, what did Christ own by the end of his ministry? Right? I mean, he didn't have a house, right?
Speaker 2 01:04:42 Yeah. He,
Speaker 1 01:04:42 The clothes on his back and he would go from city to city being fed, you know, and, and told his disciples the same thing, like rely on the idea that where we go will, somebody will find us and feed us and give us a place to stay, but
Speaker 2 01:04:57 Consider the lilies of the field.
Speaker 1 01:04:58 Okay, fantastic. That's exactly right. And that the most, the most powerful human being that's ever lived had nothing had the clothes on his back and the shoes on his feet were truly right. And we think about, we think about the other plan, which is you can buy anything in this world with money. Yeah. That's the opposite of that. That's, that's truly, that's truly, maybe the most apparent <laugh> difference between those two philosophies. And again, when we say, what are we willing to sacrifice to become more like God and it's is it, Hey, maybe you don't need, maybe you don't need all of those things. And again, dude, I've never wanted to count somebody else's money because by the way, like, I want to have as much money as possible, hopefully to be able to do good in the world, but also hopefully for the freedom that I can just hang out with my kids more, judge me, however you want with that. Right. But the idea is, but do I want that so that I can exercise power over people? No, but I know a lot of people that do, I know a lot of people that truly do believe that you can buy anything in this world with money, including power, including I reputation, including whatever that may be. The irony is what it can't buy you is, um, anything other than a date with the grave at some point. And then what, and then what, and then the eternal question of, and then what,
Speaker 2 01:06:33 Because your nature hasn't changed. You haven't, you haven't humbled. Like that's the, that's the secret to being a God. How can you be a God and care for so much? If you could only care for yourself, you never learned to give yourself up in order to care for everything that you were about to create, because you only cared about you. Your heart's
Speaker 1 01:06:55 Not big enough. And truly, I do believe this too. I learned this from the minimalists, working with them, doing music for their documentaries, but truly the things that you own do eventually begin to own you. And it does take up a lot of bandwidth and it takes up a lot of time trying to manage a bunch of things like that. And what is that taking time away from for some it's different, but I mean, I, I will let you as the listener answer that question because I have to, I have to reconcile this with myself all the time is what are those repo? What, what other important things is that taking time away from where to become a God, is it that we need to have the ultimate freedom?
Speaker 2 01:07:34 And, and Jesus said it so succinctly. And so well when he said whosoever shall lose his life for my sake shall find it. Even life eternal, something so much greater who wouldn't want to have eternal life as opposed to a short mortal existence.
Speaker 1 01:07:49 And amen.
Speaker 2 01:07:49 And I would be very curious to know how other people interpret this verse. If you don't believe that Israel are gods, then who are the other gods that God is a God over, do you believe in, in polytheism because if we're monotheistic, then, then who are the other gods that God is a God over? How do you have other gods exist? If it's not Israel who are the other gods? I, I just, I love it. I love this passage. I love how plain it is. And I love how it survived the ages, not everything did. Uh, in fact, if we go to Deuteronomy 32, uh, this is an example where something didn't survive and I know we're about out of time. Uh I'll I'll try
Speaker 1 01:08:33 We're way over time. Doesn't even matter. Let's just get it done.
Speaker 2 01:08:35 Let's just roll. It's that's that's what happens when you assign an entire book into a week?
Speaker 1 01:08:42 I know, come on.
Speaker 2 01:08:43 All right. 32. This is verse eight. When the most high divided to the nation's their inheritance. When he separated the sons of Adam, he set the bounds of the people. According to the number of the children of Israel for the Lord's portion is his people. Jacob is the lot of his inheritance. Now this is a little bit strange. This is the Massic text. This is where it's translated from. And we get Israel that the Lord set the bounds of the people. According to the number of the children of Israel. Well is Israel had 12 sons or how many people are Israel. That's how the whole bounds was determined in the step two agents, which is the Greek translation of the Bible. It says the number of the children of the angels of God. You're like, wait a second, Israel to angels of God. How did you make that jump?
Speaker 2 01:09:35 So we have to take a step back, even further in history. And we can fortunately, now that we have the dead sea scrolls, so the dead sea scrolls predates the Massic text by several hundred years and the sub two agent by several hundred years and in the dead sea scrolls, it says he a people according to the number of the children of God. So it was Elohim that was here originally. So let me read this when the most high divided the nations, their inheritance, when he separated the sons of Adam, he set the bounds of the people according to the number of the children of God. And, and so the reason why it's gotten changed out is they're looking at it and saying, uh, verse nine for the Lord's portion is his people. So it almost looked at it like God is the head of this Pantheon and, and the God's children, all of these different gods had these different nations, but Jehovah gets Israel.
Speaker 2 01:10:28 The other ones of God's children get the other nations. That's not how I read it, though. When we're talking about this God's children are all of us. He set the number of their bounds, according to the number of all of his children, and they're going to inherit the nations and the Lord will choose all of those that are, that are covenant with him, Israel, to become part of that covenant relationship. So it is interesting to see the history of the text, how it changed from the number of God's children to, oh, we don't wanna talk about God having children, the potential of other gods out there let's change it to the angels of God. And then we look at it in angels of God. Well, that seems, let's just say Israel. And, and so it's kind of, we, we have that history preserved through the different text translations at the end.
Speaker 2 01:11:19 Cool. Okay. There's one last thing we do need to talk about. Okay. Um, and there's a few things that we're just gonna leave along the side, unfortunately. Okay. When Israel goes in, this is in, uh, Deuteronomy chapter 11, the Lord says there's gonna be a blessing and a curse associated with them coming into the land. And he talks about two different mountain ranges. One range is going to be the representing, uh, representing the blessings while the other is going to represent the cursings and they divide Israel, six tribes are gonna be shouting out blessings, six drives are gonna be shouting out cursings. And then Israel is going to pass between the two mountains. Then this is your classic covenant, where we talked about this earlier, when you take the animal and you divide it in half, and you go between the two different pieces. Uh, we talked about it in the book of Mormon when Ronna takes his, uh, title of Liberty and rinse the coat.
Speaker 2 01:12:09 And, and then they tramp it under their feet. And then you see it in the sacrament where you take the bread and you rip the bread, and then you participate in this idea. The idea is just as the mountains are separated or pulled apart from each other, as you pass through it, you will be established in the land and blessed as long as you follow God's covenant and do not forget him to serve other gods. But if you serve other gods, just as the mountains are separated and divided, you also will be separated out of the land and torn from where you are. We see this when the, as Syrians came and as Israel forgot God, they are physically removed out of the land into a foreign place and Babylon the same thing. When Israel, again, forgets God, Babylon comes and relocates the, the Jews, the J the, the Israelites out of the land into a new land.
Speaker 2 01:13:01 This is the covenant that God has made with them. And where I find it most fascinating is you look at Israel and this land, and you have your, your salt sea, your Jordan river, and your fresh lake. And you've, you've got this mountain pass that they had to cross through. Well, you look at modern Israel today, as Israel is, as we talk about the restoration of Israel and, and the tribes being assigned again, this idea is they're coming into the promised land as, as you look at Brigham young, leaving this Exodus. So, so just as you have Moses, who's not allowed to come into the promised land. You have this next figure, Joshua, whose job is to take them over into the land and settle them in. Well, Joseph Smith is martyred. Before he's able to take his people over. Then you have Brigham young kind of take his place, bring them through. And they come through immigration canyon with the mountains on either side and restoring this Israelic covenant. This idea that you will be established here in the land, as long as you remember God, and you've got this salt sea and this river and this fresh lake, the river called Jordan river as well. And the same sort of act reenacting what was happening with ancient Israel. It's kind of, to me, very poetic and kind of cool to see that happening again in this time.
Speaker 1 01:14:16 So it's totally appropriate when I tell my family in law from California, that they should move to Zion. Sure. They should move to the promised land of salt lake city, you know, slash Utah county. It's totally appropriate. Yes. Zion. This
Speaker 2 01:14:32 Is the
Speaker 1 01:14:33 Place that this is the place Brickham young said it.
Speaker 2 01:14:37 All right. There's, there's a lot of other cool little things. Um, if you wanna be looking at, you know, Deuteronomy 21 hanging on a tree and what that means, the law of the first born, uh, there's Deuteronomy is a big book. Enjoy it. If you have any questions, feel free to reach out to us. And we'd love to talk about all sorts of things that we just don't have time for,
Speaker 1 01:14:56 For sure. All right. Um, next week, we're in
Speaker 2 01:14:59 Joshua picking up the torch and, uh, carrying on.
Speaker 1 01:15:03 All right, well then, uh, let's wrap it up until next week. See ya.
