Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: Foreign.
Welcome to the weekly Deep Dive podcast on the Add on Education Network podcast where we explore the weekly come follow me discussions and try to add a little insight and unique perspective. I am your host, Jason Lloyd, here with my friend and the show's producer, Nate Pifer.
[00:00:29] Speaker B: What's up?
[00:00:29] Speaker A: Hey.
And before we dive too much into this episode to tell you what's going on, just want a little shout out to you guys. We would love to hear from you, would love to hear what you're up to, how you found a show or any questions or just any kind of interaction at all. You can reach out to us just that easy. Hi h I hieeklydeepdive.com so send us your mail. In this episode, we're going to cover Doctrine and covenants, section 37 through 40, and kind of the if you're not one, you're not mine. As the Lord talks to his people and trying to unify them. I know, Nate, you've kind of been looking forward to this.
[00:01:05] Speaker C: I love this one. I've always loved if you are not one, ye are not mine. There is a lot that goes into that. So I am ready.
[00:01:11] Speaker A: Well, sweet. We have got you stoked up, so let's not waste too much time. Let's get right into it. Doctrine and Covenants, section 37, verse 1. The Lord tells Joseph Smith, it is not expedient that you should translate at this time. Not yet. Put a pause on it. And when we're talking about translating here, we're not talking about translating the old. Excuse me, the Book of Mormon. The Book of Mormon has already been translated. This is Joseph Smith working on a translation of the Bible. And to say translation is maybe a little bit of a misnomer. It's not that he's going into the original Hebrew or the original Greek and translating the Scriptures. He's more reading through the Bible and relying on the Spirit to help him.
Joseph Smith, it's not to say that he didn't have a familiarity with languages. He had a deep love of languages and wanted to learn as much language as he could. In fact, in 1835, he undertakes a study to try to put a grammar and an Alphabet together for the Egyptian language. 1836 is when he signs up for Hebrew and hires a Hebrew instructor to come teach at the School of the prophets. 1842 through 1843, he studies German and Hebrew and it also appears that he studied Latin somewhere in the mix. So, I mean, if we were to take the languages that Joseph Smith studied, Hebrew, Greek, German, and Latin in just a few short years.
So very studious. And sometimes we get this idea or concept that he's this farm boy, this uneducated farm boy. And certainly he started out that way. But the thing about Joseph Smith was he was very curious. He had a lot of questions and he didn't mind asking and looking and trying to find. He was very intelligent and he was tutored by some of the smartest people that ever lived, both in his time and not in his time, with angelic visitations and the way that he received instruction. So to say that he was uneducated his whole life, I think doesn't quite fit the bill.
Part of his love for learning, it reflects in all of the revelations and the teachings where he would talk about knowledge is power and we save ourselves as fast as we gain knowledge. And that's how God did it. Because he knows everything. He was able to subject everything under his feet. So this, I don't know. Joseph Smith's always been kind of a hero role model for me with his love of learning, his love of knowledge, his love of even seeking languages.
I don't know, I've dived into a few languages myself, trying to follow a little bit in his footsteps. But let's get back to this translation. This is 1831. So this is still four years before he even undertakes any kind of linguistic study. So going back, this is not a translation. He's not relying on education. He's not relying on any of the teachings that he's going to be receiving later. In this case, he's wholly relying on the spirit of God to try to guide his inspired revision, if you will, of the Bible. Maybe revision is a better word than translation here.
He has to put it on pause for the gathering. But to give you a little bit more context about this revision, he finishes the New Testament early in 1833 and. And then a few months later, he finishes the Old Testament. However, he never finishes a final edit of the Bible, the inspired translation of the Bible. And so it never gets published, not in his time or before he died.
[00:04:54] Speaker C: Did somebody have it?
[00:04:55] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. And let's see, it would be the Reformed or the LDS Church. Split, right?
[00:05:02] Speaker C: Yep.
[00:05:03] Speaker A: The other church kept the manuscript and published it. And I believe they've allowed the church to print that. I've seen in the last couple years. I've seen that Bible, I believe at Desert Book or maybe even Seagull.
[00:05:15] Speaker C: Wow.
[00:05:15] Speaker A: But they've kept on to it. But because he never did a final edit, it never got published. In his time. But later on, the Reformed church took that.
We have snippets of it. What we have is a very small portion in the jst, in the Bible, after the Bible dictionary. But what they have is. Is more of its entirety. Then maybe some people don't realize this, but when you go to the Pearl of Great Price and you see the Book of Moses, those chapters there, what, six, seven chapters, the Book of Moses right there, it's not from a translation, it's not from the papyrus. It's very different from the Book of Abraham. It is part of this, this translation, this inspired translation that Joseph Smith is doing. So that would be in there along with a lot more edits than what we have. So they have a more complete version. But because it was never under the final edit, it never got published under the church, never. Never came to be really official in the LDS Church, at least the modern LDS Church today.
So anyways, he puts that on hold in order to gather the Saints. And I know gathering is a very common theme. We've talked about it in a lot of these podcasts that this idea of gather the people, gather the people. But this is a little bit different in that this is the first time that the Lord is physically gathering them to one place as far as relocating. And we focus a lot on the gathering of the Saints as far as crossing the plains and how hard the hardships that they endured, having to walk in the handcarts and the wagon trains and all of that sticks out very bright in our mind. But maybe what we don't realize so often is even in these gatherings were fairly significant and required a lot of faith. These are very new members. The church has been around for less than a year. They've read a few pages of the Book of Mormon. The Book of Mormon has been recently published. And yet with all of their newfound faith, as you take all of these very young converts to the church and they are established in these areas, and you ask them to sell their property and give up life as they know it to move and relocate to a new area and start all over, new society, new jobs, new everything, and having to sell property, they didn't always get the best value out of their property doing it. I mean, you take a hit and this idea of physically gathering, this isn't the first, it's not going to be the last. They have to gather to the Ohio, they gather to Nauvoo, they gather to independence. And then ultimately you've got this gathering where you pull all the Saints across the plains into the Rocky Mountains. So that's something the Lord's getting them ready for and he's going to do over and over. And maybe a lot of that preparation or training or experience helps them, as in the end, they have to bring everybody over to the. To the west.
And he does make special mention of the Colesville Saints. He says that their. Their faith and prayers have been very sincere. Just a little salute to the Colesville Saints. This is the branch where the Knight family comes from. Very strong members. And at this time, Hyrum Smith is the one that is leading the branch. And they did demonstrate an enormous amount of faith and a lot of it was needed initially to keep that church strong and keep that church going through the problems that they were going to go through.
All right, doctrine and covenants 38. 1.
I just want to read this verse because this intro is an introduction that God is making about himself, and he does it so powerfully. He says, thus saith the Lord your God, even Jesus Christ the Great. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the same which looked upon the wide expanse of eternity and all the seraphic hosts of heaven before the world was made.
And you know, when you think about the way we introduce people today, like for a lecture or a title, and you've got your whole Alphabet soup of labels, you know, the Ph.D. or the Ms. Or whatever the case may be, here he is. And what kind of introduction you can give this person. But I mean, how can you compete with this? The same which looked upon the wide expanse of eternity in all the seraphic coasts of heaven before the world was made. I mean, that's. That's a powerful introduction.
[00:09:42] Speaker C: I mean, people can introduce me as the greatest Mario Kart player in the western region of the United States, quantifiably.
[00:09:50] Speaker A: Yuck Norris. Is it? Yuck Norris.
[00:09:52] Speaker C: So, I mean, that's a pretty powerful introduction, too. I mean, if we're just, you know, comparing apples to apples.
[00:09:58] Speaker A: But how. I mean.
[00:10:00] Speaker C: Yeah, I mean, or maybe that's not that great of an introduction and versus.
[00:10:04] Speaker A: The wide expanse of looks upon the wide expanse of eternity. And he says, okay, this reminds me when he says, all the seraphic hosts of heaven before the world was made. Just kind of like, hey, by the way, you can say you've been here for a while, or you can claim whatever it was, but I was here before the world was made.
And it reminds me in the New Testament, when he's talking to the. When he's talking to the people and they're talking about. He Says you can claim Abraham is yours, but before Abraham was. I am.
[00:10:37] Speaker C: That's right.
[00:10:39] Speaker A: And just. I don't know.
[00:10:41] Speaker C: That's pretty epic.
[00:10:43] Speaker A: It is. And that perspective, I don't know, it's very limited, our perspective. I mean, we see things from such a short frame. And he keeps reminding us, hey, by the way, I've seen things from before the beginning. And then I wanted to hone in a little bit on the word, the seraphic hosts. And that comes from Hebrew, the seraphim. And seraph means to burn on fire. And the im seraphim, or the seraphic, means the burning ones.
So he's talking about the burning ones.
And it's also literally the word they use for fiery serpents. And I think it has to do with, like, when you get bit by a snake that's venomous, it burns.
[00:11:27] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:11:28] Speaker A: And so the burning snakes.
But when I think about this with the seraphic hosts, I think of spirits that haven't received bodies yet. I almost look at it as if we're the seraphim and maybe we're burning with light. And this idea that our light, our spirits that are glowing, if you will, have not been clothed upon. With mortality yet, these burning spirits that are waiting for life to come here.
And as we get clothed upon the spirits when we get here. And then that's why I find it so interesting, because he sends venomous snakes in the Old Testament, in the Book of Ether, we both see it. And you almost wonder because the snake was symbolic of Satan in the beginning. Right. If maybe these fiery serpents, these burning ones, the seraphim, the snakes are almost these fallen spirits that were never clothed upon.
[00:12:20] Speaker C: Interesting. Yeah.
[00:12:21] Speaker A: Because they say Adam and Eve were naked in the garden, but then they say, but the snake was even more naked. And.
Well, I guess that takes us. It says literally in English, it says that the snake was more subtle, but it says Adam and Eve were naked, but the snake was more subtle. And you're like, wait, that doesn't quite make sense. If the snake was naked but Adam. Or the. If Adam and Eve were naked, but the snake was more subtle. More subtle doesn't really fit with naked there. The same word for subtle here can be translated as naked. So some translators look at it in context. And if they're saying Adam and Eve were naked and that they weren't wearing clothes, but the snake was even more naked and that he wasn't wearing. Mortality. Yeah. He didn't have a body. So I think there's almost a kind of a play on Word here when he's talking about the seraphim, these spirits that before the world was these burning ones. And yet he's using this imagery of snakes that because they wouldn't walk, they're forced to crawl upon their bellies because they wouldn't stand and. And do things as God had lined out or planned and they rebelled. Now, these burning ones don't get clothed upon mortality. And I don't know, it just seems like a little play on words that way.
[00:13:34] Speaker C: I love that stuff.
[00:13:36] Speaker A: All right. In verse 2, he continues with his introduction. He says the same, which knoweth all things, for all things are present before my eyes. And that statement blows me away. How can all things be present before someone's eyes?
And his eyes. A case of metonymy here where he's just saying we use eyes to represent how we understand or perceive things. So he perceives and understands all things, or literally is everything playing out before him and he just sees everything in a moment.
[00:14:13] Speaker C: I mean, it is interesting because again, like, if you look at. If you look at how we understand, like our time versus the time, wherever God is. You know what I mean? That the further away that you get from something, the more you can see, I guess.
[00:14:35] Speaker B: Right.
[00:14:35] Speaker C: And so I guess the idea is that I think this looks like it could be very literally, you know, all things play out before me, too.
If time moves at such a different pace in one place versus another, you know, I mean, why wouldn't it kind of just look like it's just all playing out from a distance, you know?
[00:14:56] Speaker A: Yeah. And in all things, is it past, present, future, in all things. In that case, all things is in everything everywhere.
[00:15:03] Speaker B: He.
[00:15:03] Speaker A: He talks about his creation. Worlds without end have I created. And yet all things are before his eyes. And when he calls Joseph by name or when he speaks to us and he's talking to these people in Doctrine and Covenants, I know the thoughts of your heart. I know what's being done in secret chambers. I know what's going on.
I guess he's framing the context, because in this section, he's going to talk about things that are happening and people that are conspiring in darkness, that think no one is watching. And yet somehow he says, look, let me preface this. All things are present before my eyes. They can't hide it. I know what's going on. And how that miracle happens, I don't know. But it's a pretty incredible statement.
[00:15:49] Speaker C: I mean, clearly he wanted to separate the same which knoweth all things, for all things are present before My eyes. Like it's redundant if he's not clearly trying to separate those two things. Because if it's just, I know what's going on, he could have ended it with the same that knoweth all things.
[00:16:08] Speaker A: It's a good point. Yeah.
Because I mean, yeah, I know. With all things, because everything is in front of my eyes. And yeah, he takes it that one step further.
Well, and then in 38. Four, he says he's taken Zion into his bosom. And also in Zion, he's referring to the city of Enoch. He's taken that city, he's brought it up into his bosom. But then he goes on and says, and even as many as have believed in my name has he taken into his bosom. And the bosom is a place of rest.
It's a powerful image, right? I mean, it's comforting. He's holding. It's this endearment that he loves, but also he's providing comfort, maybe to somebody who needs comfort.
And so as I'm looking for instances where it talks about God's bosom or this bosom and the rest, I find the story of Abraham in the New Testament, not Abraham per se, but when Lazarus, the parable that Christ gives when Lazarus dies. And remember, Lazarus is a beggar in the streets, and nobody will give him the time of day. Nobody is giving him crumbs to eat. No one is giving him money or water or anything that he needs. He kind of dies alone, in agony, by himself, destitute.
And in the spirit world, he's taken into Abraham's bosom. And Abraham is holding him close to him and feeding him, giving him water, taking care of him and comforting him, holding him dear into his bosom. And then there's a gulf. And the other people that were wealthy or that were doing well, that ignored Lazarus, are sitting on this other end of the gulf. And they're parched throats because it's dry and they're thirsty. And now all of a sudden, the roles switch where they become the beggars. And they call out to Abraham and say, hey, you know, could Lazarus maybe dip his finger in the water and bring it over here and help quench our thirst? And this guy that was the beggar has now become rich or wealthy in a sense. Or the guy, he's no longer begging. He's the one that's taken into the bosom and he's comforted. And this story, so many times, Christ is telling us in the Beatitudes, it's blessed are the humble, blessed are the poor. Blessed are the destitute. Blessed are the ones that are kind of broken up or destroyed because those are the ones that he pulls close to his bosom and he provides comfort to.
And what's interesting to me in the story is the significance of the names. Because Lazarus comes from the Hebrew Eliezer, which means El is God. Elohim, El. And Azer has helped. God has helped. So here you have a man in need for help that nobody helps. And when no one helps, then who does? God steps in and provides comfort, brings him into his bosom.
And Abraham Av is Hebrew for father. And Raham is of a multitude when he had his name changed, right? You will be a father of a multitude. And more are the children of the married wife than the destitute. This idea that Abraham couldn't have kids for a very long time, but now all of a sudden he's going to inher nations. And this point Christ points out in the New Testament and says, you claim Abraham as your father, but I could pick up these stones and raise up children to Abraham. Abraham is going to be inheriting the nation. So as I look at this story, Abraham is taking on the role of God and we all become his children through Christ's atonement, this idea that we can be born again.
And he is now the father of multitude. He is inheriting all these children. And for as many as believe in his name and feel rejected in some sense or need comfort in some sense, and maybe only in the sense that they want so much to be with God and they are praying and that is their wish to have his presence, to have His Spirit and to have him bring them in and grant them that wish and give them what they were pouring and that they wanted that spirit. Does that make sense or am I just kind of wondering?
[00:20:12] Speaker B: No, I think so.
[00:20:13] Speaker C: I mean, I like. I mean it is deep, but I do like the. I mean, I love the deeper meanings behind the names and stuff like that. And it's, it's. I love personally at least always learning about the symbolisms and of, of the names that are, you know, given and changed, you know, throughout the Old Testament especially, but the New Testament as well. But yeah, that's really interesting. Lazarus being the one that God helped is interesting.
[00:20:42] Speaker A: Yeah. This idea that no one else would and so God does.
[00:20:46] Speaker C: And this might, this might not, this might not be like a correlation, but I know you've kind of talked about it in the past where God and Jesus, or I mean Jesus has taken on like feminine roles as well, like the mother hen and things like that. And you've even brought up some different. You've brought up some different things in the Old Testament where it's, it's both masculine and feminine roles that he plays. But it. And this might not have anything to do with it, but it is interesting, the idea of taking, like, a child, you know, towards, you know, or in. Into your bosom and the idea of, you know, the connection between even, like, mother and child that the child needs, you know, even after his, after the child has been. After the baby has been given, life still relies on the mother for food. You know what I mean? And to continue to continue living. It's, it's not only. It's not only, you know, has, has, has Jesus given us life? But, but we need to rely on him still to be fed, you know?
[00:21:59] Speaker A: Yes. And when he says, will a woman forget her sucking child as we're talking about taking it into the bosom, right? And he says, maybe, maybe she will, but I never will. Like even a bad mom or something. I mean, maybe you can have an incidence where she doesn't. But as much as that's hard to believe, it's even harder to believe that he will forget us. And he has taken on that role through the atonement, this idea that we can be born again through him. Right. This perception. And as I'm thinking about what it means to be poor or broken in spirit, I don't know that it's necessarily a beggar in the sense, like Lazarus was on the street, literally begging. But sometimes being poor just means that you desire something you don't have. And last week when you were talking about Elder Holland coming and visiting you guys, and again, that presence of a God that was with you, boy, that had such an impact on me all week as I would find myself praying and thinking, what can I do to be worthy of a God with me? What can I do to fill that spirit? Or what can I change? Or how can I improve? Or how can I, I don't know, be worthy of such a great companionship as we're talking about God being with you and this idea, maybe. Maybe that's what being poor is in a sense is realizing that we're lacking that spirit, we're lacking that comfort, that peace, that we want more of it. And when we realize we want more of it and we're begging for it, we become beggars of a different sense.
[00:23:35] Speaker C: Yeah, I mean, I love that.
[00:23:37] Speaker A: Okay, let's go to verse five. It talks about the residue of the Wicked have I kept in chains of darkness until the judgment. And the key word for me in this one is kept. Because it's not like he's saying, I will put the chains of darkness all over them because of their decisions. As I think of it, it's like we are all in darkness. None of us know what really happened, where we came from, or none of us really have this good appreciation or sense for why we're here or what we're doing until we start coming closer to God. And then those darkness is removed from light, his light, as it's shining down on us. So it's not like he's trying to punish them and bury them in darkness. It's almost more of a natural consequence. If you seek the Lord, you shall find him. He will bless you with light. And as you get more and more light, then you start to see things clearer or you start to have a better appreciation. And it liberates you, this sense of liberation. And here, the residue of the wicked, it's not that he is punishing them, but he has kept in chains of darkness until judgment because they choose not the light. They're not seeking the light, and so they can't come out of the darkness.
[00:24:50] Speaker C: I mean, so the darkness, in theory, is just a natural. I mean, when we leave the presence of God and gain a mortal body. I think that's what you're saying, right?
[00:24:59] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:24:59] Speaker C: Is that.
[00:25:00] Speaker B: That's just.
[00:25:00] Speaker C: That's a natural consequence, is that we don't know everything, that the darkness that.
[00:25:05] Speaker B: We have is just.
[00:25:06] Speaker C: It's there to provide us opportunities to have faith.
[00:25:10] Speaker A: Absolutely. In fact, I think maybe we should read this in context of verse eight. If we go down just a couple verses, it says, the veil of darkness shall be rent and you shall see me.
So the chains of darkness that were there, it's like the brother of Jared, right. He had so much faith that he could no longer be kept within the veil, and the veil gets rent. So that darkness. I think we're all subject to some amount of darkness because we just don't know. But as we come close to the Lord, as we draw near to him, he draws near to us, and that light starts to penetrate to the point where we can penetrate that veil.
And as we're talking about veils being rent, what better example is there than when Christ is crucified and the veil of the temple is rent? It seems like kind of a strange fact, like, oh, why does that have to do with anything? All of a sudden, a curtain in the temple gets Ripped in half when he dies. But the significance is nobody could go into the holy of holies but the high priest once a day on the day of atonement. But now all of a sudden. So the holy of holies is where God sits on the mercy seat. And what separates him from the rest of Israel, that no one can go in is this veil. And the fact that the veil rends with him finishing the atonement is that now, because of the atonement, we can pass through the veil and enter into the presence of God. Something that couldn't have happened before, because no unclean thing can enter into the presence of God. So as we're talking about this idea of being in darkness, but gradually getting to a lighter and lighter, eventually to the point where we can pass through a rent veil, it just seems very significant to me. And it seems like. It seems like we have those type of experiences here, or at least something preparing us for those type of experiences.
[00:27:05] Speaker C: Yeah. And obviously not to get into too many details, but a lot of that is fairly significant. You know, when you go and do endowments at the temple. At the temple, yes.
[00:27:15] Speaker A: And maybe when we get to go back to the temple again, you know, this idea of being able to see more and more light. And I like to couple that with verse seven. Here it says, I am in your midst, but you cannot see me going back from last week when we were talking about. He says that he would go with them on their mission. And here he is saying, I am among you. Whether you can see me or not, I am there. And oftentimes you cannot see me. And so if we are looking for an experience to go through the darkness and pierce a veil and enter into the presence that perhaps he might be there even if we don't see Him. I mean, maybe that is something to think about as we go back to the temples. And this desire, this being poor in spirit, knowing that there is something there that we want more than anything to be in his presence, and thinking of him as that loving God that wants to take us into his bosom, that one day, maybe that veil can no longer contain us, that darkness is no longer there. We've received enough light that we can pierce that veil and see him in his presence. Just powerful scriptures.
[00:28:27] Speaker C: I love it.
[00:28:29] Speaker A: Okay, and verse 11, let's take a look at this. It says, the powers of darkness prevail upon the earth among the children of men. And I think we see it. We see it not just in Joseph Smith's day, but in our day, but for me an excellent example is when they take the 116 pages and they are intentionally trying to change it to prove that he is wrong.
They think they are doing a world a favor, but they are being influenced by this darkness. But I think a lot of times there are people today that get caught up in causes or something that they believe is absolutely right. But the way they go about doing it, if you look for the fruits or for how it's being done, this idea that we get carried away in hate or in anger or in tearing something apart or destroying it, and maybe we should take a step back and just look and wonder, is this the power of darkness that's prevailing upon us here on the earth?
I think Satan is just excellent at distraction.
Here we have the Lord trying to unify a people, trying to pull us all together, trying to gather the sense of harvesting. Gather, gather, gather.
And yet sometimes these causes can be very divisive and fill us with rage or hate or a lack of tolerance or a lack of understanding or lack of even wanting to understand.
[00:30:02] Speaker C: But to your earlier point though, too, though, like, sometimes, sometimes the causes, like, aren't necessarily evil or bad causes. You know what I mean?
It is interesting because it's like what you said, I think is a really profound thing. Even when we kind of are trying to do some sort of self, you know, self inventory, when we sometimes get caught up in things, is that, yeah, these dudes that stole the early 116 pages, they, they were, to them, they.
[00:30:37] Speaker B: Looked at their cause as like, we're.
[00:30:39] Speaker C: Trying to, you know, expose this fraudster. And, and we're trying to whatever. So if that means that we have to steal just a little bit and.
[00:30:48] Speaker B: Lie just a little bit, it's okay. Because it's for the greater good. Right.
[00:30:52] Speaker C: And it is interesting because then you.
[00:30:53] Speaker B: You, if you apply that to, to.
[00:30:56] Speaker C: Various things that sometimes you know, pop up throughout history. You know, like a cause might be right.
[00:31:04] Speaker B: But it's like, if you feel like.
[00:31:06] Speaker C: If you feel like that, that justifies you in stealing a little bit or.
You know what I mean? Or lying a little bit or potentially, you know what I mean?
[00:31:17] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:31:18] Speaker C: Potentially infringing upon somebody else's rights or.
[00:31:22] Speaker B: Safety or whatever it is.
[00:31:23] Speaker C: You know what I mean? I'm not talking about anything specifically. I'm talking very generally that it's like, that's when I think that we have to make sure that we haven't, on our own, lost our way a little bit.
[00:31:33] Speaker B: Right. Is that it's like if, if we're.
[00:31:36] Speaker C: Justifying things that we know aren't right.
[00:31:40] Speaker B: But for the greater.
[00:31:41] Speaker C: You know what I mean?
[00:31:41] Speaker A: But.
[00:31:42] Speaker C: But we think, well, it's okay because.
[00:31:43] Speaker B: It'S for the greater good. It's.
[00:31:44] Speaker C: Then it's just like, I don't know. I don't know if it's ever. I don't know if it's ever okay to do something that, you know is wrong with the idea that it's like.
[00:31:53] Speaker B: But it's okay because it's for the greater good.
[00:31:56] Speaker C: You know, this is.
[00:31:58] Speaker A: Sometimes you hear this hate right now is justified. This violence, this hate is necessary in order for people to love. And you're like, wait a second, am I sure I'm understanding that, right? If we have to hate and destroy and be violent in order to get people to love, I don't think that's the way that Christ wanted us to go about doing it.
[00:32:21] Speaker C: And I also just don't think that works. I mean, if I'm being totally honest with you. You know what I mean?
[00:32:25] Speaker A: Right?
[00:32:25] Speaker C: Like, you can't hate. You can't hate people into love, you.
[00:32:28] Speaker B: Know, like, as hard as that is to accept.
[00:32:32] Speaker C: You know what I mean? And the thing is, what's interesting, though.
[00:32:35] Speaker B: Is that I do truly believe, though.
[00:32:37] Speaker C: That, like, you can love people out of hate. You know what I mean? You can't hate. You can't hate people into love, but you can absolutely love people out of hate, right? You can pull hate from people with love, and that's. That sometimes takes the much, much, much bigger person to have the courage to do that in a situation. But I guess I'm just saying it's like, I can. I look. I look at the history of the, you know, the world as we know it, and I don't know any examples where. Where people were able to beat somebody into being a better person, you know, or hate somebody into being a better person and making better decisions. And I can give you a whole world of examples of where patience and love and understanding and listening was able to draw the hatred from people that. That previously had that in them.
[00:33:33] Speaker A: And. And I think of.
I want to say it's Ogmundino, the quote. My dad loves it. He's got it on a blanket somewhere, I think. He says, muscle can split a shield and destroy a life, but only the unseen power of love can unlock the hearts of men.
Right? This idea that. I mean, it's.
I think we all know. I think we all understand. I think we've all seen it, but sometimes we get so caught up chasing that, that we lose sight of it.
[00:34:01] Speaker C: Sure.
[00:34:02] Speaker A: And it's not to say that causes are bad. Right? I mean, you.
[00:34:04] Speaker B: That's what I'm saying. It's like, the thing is. Like, the thing is, a lot of the things that people are, I feel.
[00:34:10] Speaker C: Like, are fighting for now are the most correct things. You know what I mean?
[00:34:16] Speaker B: Like, at the end of the day, it's just like. Yeah, like a lot of the causes.
[00:34:18] Speaker C: Especially now, it's just like equality and. And. You know what I mean? And, like certain, you know, powers, not having control over people and groups and. And. You know what I mean?
[00:34:32] Speaker B: And like, I'm just saying, it's just like. Yeah, like, these are things that we should all be striving for. And I can just say that it's like in a world that we live in now, it's like building bridges and.
[00:34:45] Speaker C: Bringing people together as one is the.
[00:34:50] Speaker B: Way that we're going to be able to change things.
[00:34:52] Speaker C: And not by dividing, you know, not by hate, not by dividing, not by doing those things, but by listening and loving and trying to understand each other.
[00:35:03] Speaker A: Yeah. And Doctrine and Covenants tells us.
It also says, it's not meet that I, the Lord, command you in all things and that all men should be anxiously engaged in a good work. So we should be finding things to do. We should be working. We should be doing things. But I think maybe Peter provides us with one of the better examples of how to do this. When he steps out of that boat and walking on that water, and as his focus is on the Christ, he's able to do the impossible. He's able to stand on top of the waters. But when his focus changes, as the wind kicks up and the waves get nasty, and he looks at all of the wrong things in the situation around him and focuses on those, rather than focusing on Christ. If we put Christ at the center, maybe that helps center us a little bit more as we are looking for causes to support or as we are looking for ways that we can help and do it in a loving way if we've got Christ at the center of it. Because that's what pulls his focus away from the storm, and that's what lifts him back up out of the water after he starts to sink. And as we start to sink into a cause because we're being consumed with hate or fear or just negativity, with the whole situation of the world and where we're headed, when we're in perhaps the greatest time of all history, when the gospel has been restored and light is continuing to shine Brighter and brighter.
There's a lot of great things to be happy and positive. And there's a lot of good things for us to be able to thrust in our sickles and enjoy.
And maybe re centering around Christ can help pull us out of a depressing gloom feeling when we get distracted and sucked into maybe something that might not be as wholesome.
Let's look at doctrine and covenants 38 12. Because as they're talking about the powers of darkness that prevail on the earth. And just as we have the Spirit trying to influence and help us to build, we also have evil spirit trying to pull apart as we were just talking. But all of this is done in the presence of all the hosts of heaven. This is a phrase that I caught this time reading, that I really hadn't ever noticed or hadn't focused on before. It says, which causes silence to reign.
And let me ask the question. Where. Where is silence reigning? Is it on earth or is it in heaven? Because I don't think there's this moment of silence here on earth where everyone pauses and wonders about the evil in the world. But it says all of it is done in the presence of all the hosts of heaven, which causes silence to reign.
And if silence is reigning in the heavens, where have we heard that before?
And this gets interesting to me, because in the Book of Revelation, all of a sudden we're reading all sorts of things that just sound like we shouldn't be reading already.
This idea that the Lord just barely told his missionaries to go out. And what did he say over and over again here in Doctrine and Covenants, that the voice of the missionaries is as a sounding trump. You are like, wait a second. In the Book of Revelation, it talks about this idea of a sounding trump, and then this idea of the righteous being gathered together. And then as we keep going, it says, angels are waiting. So where is the silence again? It's in heaven, because angels are waiting in heaven. The command to reap down the earth, to gather the tares, that they may be burned. So not only is the wheat being gathered, but then you have this idea that the tares are going to be gathered as well. And this silence in heaven is followed. So it says, there's going to be an opening of the seventh seal. You have the sounding of the trump. The seventh seal is opened, which is opening the last thousand years or the seventh thousand years. And after the opening of the seventh seal, there will be silence in heaven for the space of a half an hour. And here the Lord is saying, the angels see the darkness prevailing upon the face of the earth, and that causes silence to reign. For this period, after this opening of this new dispensation, it is just. I don't know, it is interesting. And what happens after this? Well, they gather to Kirtland. They gather to Nauvoo. They gather to independence. They gather wherever the Lord says persecution is going to begin. At my house, the saints are persecuted relentlessly until they're chased out of the United States. And then this darkness that prevails, the persecution now switches to the United States undergoing the civil war. And then the theater is spread out. I mean, last night we watched Les Mis, and in the play, they're talking about the revolution, the June Revolution. This isn't the French Revolution. This is another uprising. You've got. Their revolution happened 1796, shortly after the revolution. But then you have more uprisings, more rebellions, and then you have another one, 1848, and all sorts of bloodshed, violence, and all of this going back to Les Mis. And the play, the riot sparks with the death of Lamarck, the people's man, right? What did Lamarck die of? Cholera. Because there's this huge outbreak. There's these diseases that are going the world over. There's these disasters, there's this destruction that's going the whole world over and replacing this monarchy, this tyranny to a people's voice, this democracy, this constitution, to where, as they mentioned in conference last week, there are only three countries in the world today that do not have written constitutions, the Constitution being America's greatest export.
So I look at these things and I just marvel.
Wait a second. We have a new dispensation. We have silence in heaven. We have a gathering. We have destruction that spreads across the whole world.
I don't know what I can say as to what it means, but I find it amazing.
Just something to think about.
All right, let's. Oh, I did think this was fascinating. This is 1831, that this revelation is happening. And they're talking about this reaping, right? This harvesting.
I find it fascinating that in 1831, Cyrus McCormick invents the mechanical reaper that transforms American agriculture in the same year. So this literally reaping is happening in the crops and the harvest the world over in a way that has never happened before. At the same time, the Lord is sending missionaries all over the earth for the first time in thousands of years with the restored gospel. I don't know.
[00:41:45] Speaker B: It's a cool little Easter egg.
[00:41:46] Speaker A: It's incredible. I don't Know, it's amazing.
[00:41:50] Speaker C: I like it.
[00:41:51] Speaker A: Okay, doctrine covenants still in 38. Let's go to 13.
The Lord says, and now I show unto you a mystery, a thing which is had in secret chambers. So going back to all things, being present in the eyes of the Lord, to bring to pass even your destruction in process of time. And you're like, whoa, wait. So whatever is had in secret chambers is going to bring to pass their destruction in process of time. So is the church going to be destroyed? Who's going to be destroyed? What is this destruction? What is the secret? And then the Lord kind of goes on a rant for a while, and then he gets back to it. In verse 28, he says, and again I say unto you that the enemy in the secret chambers seeketh your lives.
And it's fascinating to me. 1831, this is 13 years before Joseph Smith was martyred. And already the Lord says that people are laying down the foundations, plotting to take his life, plotting to try to destroy the church. As we know, the church survives. Joseph Smith does not. And so when it looks at your destruction in process of time, I almost wonder if this is a prophecy of Joseph Smith's death, the idea that he physically will be destroyed because of the plotting. And what's going on at some point in time, who knows?
But the Lord does say, you hear of wars in far countries and say, there will soon be great wars in far countries, but ye know not the hearts of men in your own lands. Not only talking about what the persecution is going to be heaped upon the saints. Not only referring to the martyrdom of Joseph Smith, but Also this is 30 years before the civil war breaks out. And you do not realize this is what is going to be happening here.
I mean, the Lord says it, all things are present before my eyes.
This is where it gets a little bit interesting. He says, and for your salvation, I give you a commandment. Let every man esteem his brother as himself and practice virtue and holiness before me. And again I say unto you, let every man esteem his brother as himself for that man among you. And he gives this parable, for what man among you, having 12 sons, and is no respecter of them, and they serve him obediently. And he saith unto the one, be thou clothed in robes, and sit thou here, and to the other, be thou clothed in rags, and sit thou there, and looketh upon his sons, and says, I am just. Behold, this I have given unto you as a parable. And it is even as I am. I say unto you, be One. And if you are not one, you are not mine.
So prefacing that be you one. This is the one commandment. And for your salvation, I give you a commandment. And then he lays this out. I don't know, Nate. What are your thoughts on it?
[00:44:35] Speaker B: I've always kind of. I've always kind of just wondered what, like all the various aspects of what he means when he's telling us that we need to be one, who do we need to be one with each other? With God? All of the above. You know what I mean? First of all. And then if that's the case, and then if that's the case, then you have to start going, okay, well, what does that mean, to be one? Well, I mean, God, I mean, Jesus has talked about how he Heavenly Father and the Holy Ghost are one. And, you know, we know that they're three separate persons.
So what does that mean? Right? And then. And then I think that that kind of at least starts to help maybe answer that question a little bit with when he commands us to be one.
Maybe what he's referring to. Maybe what. Maybe. Maybe specifically kind of what he's talking about. And so then that's just when you kind of have to start asking the questions. Well, what does that mean when. When. When Jesus says that he, the Father and the Holy One, what does that mean?
[00:45:35] Speaker A: That's a really great point. I mean, if he's saying. I mean, how did Zion achieve it? Right? Because they were one. They were pure in heart. And God starts at the very beginning talking about how he took the city of Zion into his bosom. How do they do it? It's not that they were trying to copy each other, but it also.
[00:45:49] Speaker B: It's not that they were all just the same. The same zombie people wandering around, just like all homogenized and weird, you know what I mean? Because that's the thing is that I think that that's important to recognize that we as members of the church and as members of our community and all kinds of things, it's like we can be one without being very different, right?
[00:46:16] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:46:18] Speaker B: And maybe even in very different places with our faith and in very different places with where we are in life and along that path, right? That it's like you can still be one and disagree with your neighbor politically. You can still be one, you know what I mean? And maybe have different views on society, you know what I mean? And understandings of things. Right? Because I think that's why I love the Scripture, because I think that it can be very Easily misunderstood.
But with a little bit of. A little bit of deeper digging into it. There's such a beauty in the idea that it's like you listen to the Mormon Tabernacle Choir, whatever you want me to call them now, but I'm still gonna call them Mormon Tabernacle Choir. Cause that's what they are. Give me a break.
So when I listen to Motab, how many people do you have up there singing?
[00:47:16] Speaker A: Quite a few.
[00:47:17] Speaker B: Quite a few, right. But the whole idea is, is that they are joining their voices as one. Like they are one as they're up there singing. Even though there's so many different, like, literally very different things happening right as they're up there singing. Some people are a little bit flat, Some people are a little bit sharp. Some people are a little behind the beat, some people are a little ahead of the beat. Some people are singing totally different harmonies and parts and stuff like that. But the lesson that you learn from that, though, is that they all are one in their message, in their purpose, in their goal, in their mission. You know what I mean? And not only that, but they're executing that too. Because all of those different voices lend together to make the message more powerful than it could be if it was just one person actually up there singing. Right? And so this idea of what does that mean for us to be one, I love that it still leaves and encourages us to be unique and to be different and to accept that we're not all in the same place and maybe have different understandings of things and different beliefs in things. But what God is asking us to do is be one maybe in purpose or to be one in vision. To be one in accepting everybody's uniqueness. You know what I mean? It's like to be one in the ultimate goal, which is what it just said right there, which is serve your neighbor to. You know what I mean, to help people come to Jesus. You know, I mean, it's like those are big things that. Those are the big picture things that if we're all one in trying to reach that, it's like you almost need all of the amazing unique differences that we all have to make that happen.
[00:49:15] Speaker A: I'm so glad you used the example of music, because, I mean, you can have several people singing the same note, and it is the same note, but it's the blend of voices, the unique voices, that it's just different. I mean, me singing that note, nobody's going to pay money to hear me singing out like that. But, I mean, you go to Les Mis or you go to some of these guys that can just sing and you have different parts, right? You've got your bass, your tenor, your alto, your soprano, or however. It might not be the same thing, but. Yeah, and you might have different voices, but the way they blend into one message is very powerful in an orchestra. The same thing, right? You don't have one instrument. You have so many different instruments in the orchestra that are just blending in such a unique way.
[00:50:00] Speaker B: Well, it makes it more powerful, like, quite literally.
Quite literally.
Things that can't be perfectly in tune, thank goodness you layer those with other people. Like, the more and more people that you can add to that that are. That are a little bit sharp and this person's a little bit flat and there's. None of them are exactly perfect. But the warmth and the depth is so pleasing to listen to that, you know. And again, it's just like. It's funny because, like, I could, like, if I. If I actually had, like, all of my music tools available to go like, okay, listen to this. And it's like, okay, well, that's perfectly in tune. And that's painful to listen to. But what happens if I layer three or four of those, you know, oscillating waveforms and, you know, slightly detune them from each other? And you'd be like, why would you detune them? Why would you want something out of tune? And then it's like, okay, now listen to them all together. And it's this gorgeous, warm, rich sound. And you're like, oh, that's weird. It's the mixture of things that aren't perfect all trying to do the same thing that makes it so thick and warm and powerful and beautiful.
[00:51:08] Speaker A: Then to take that to an example, maybe in biology a little bit, this idea that biodiversity is what makes this world work, this idea that every different organism has a role to play.
The decomposers, the recyclers. If you didn't have the molds, if you didn't have the bacteria, the fungus that are breaking things down into building blocks so that other life can use it, then, yeah, it's frustrating when it's growing in your house. But what would you do if the world didn't have that to break down the decay, to break down the death. Or that video that they did about reintroducing the wolves in Yellowstone. And I know that's a little bit controversial with ranchers and the problems that they've had with wolves, but it was fascinating. They said that just by reintroducing the wolves, they Changed the course of the rivers because the deer had overpopulated the area. They were eating all of the grass and it was eroding the banks. And the course of the river was changing by reintroducing the wolves and it starts to eat the deer population. It would scare the deer, keep them out of the areas. And now you start to have trees that grow taller and more vegetation. And because you have more vegetation and more trees, more birds return to the area. And then you have more seeds and more fruit that's getting spread about and it's just continuing to build. And you don't realize the difference that one species makes just by doing its role. Then you would think, well, wolves are going to come in there and they're going to destroy the life. But the fascinating thing they saw is how much it increased and benefited the life. And this idea of balance, that you have these different roles that play different positions, but the biodiversity is really what makes it work. God's not asking us to lose our personality. God's not asking us to just fall in line and become a drone here, but he's asking us, like you said, and you highlighted it so well, this idea that we unite in purpose, we unite in singing his song, if you will, in our own particular way.
[00:53:07] Speaker B: Well, and also think about, like, the reason that we do, you know, fasting as wards or fasting and prayers as, you know, or the prayer roll at the temple and things like that, Right? Like, the idea is that there really is something that can be amplified. And again, like, again, not to harp on this music thing too much, but like, you brought up, you have an orchestra.
It's just like literally physically adding more and more instruments. The volume it amplifies, it builds on each other.
It becomes loud, it becomes present, it becomes thick and powerful.
[00:53:47] Speaker C: Right?
[00:53:47] Speaker B: Where sometimes just, you know, a Weasley little violin up there, you might not even be able to hear it in the back of the room. Right? And, like, I do love what you said about.
It's not necessarily about totally becoming such a different person that, like, you lose your personality and your individual talents, by the way, and things that may reach somebody that might not otherwise be reached by somebody else. Right, right. But the idea is that that's why we pray together.
That's why we lend our voices to amplify our prayers. Right? To amplify our attempts to, you know, plead with God for each other and for, you know, or for somebody else or whatever it is that there really is. There really is kind of a.
There's just a Natural, literal volume.
Right. That happens when you layer more and more voices that are one in purpose. Right. That are. That are singing together, even if they're. Even if some of them are broken and even if some of them aren't perfect. The idea that the more and more people that lend their voices to something, to a cause, to a purpose, that it amplifies that and that there's power in that.
[00:55:12] Speaker A: It's. Yeah.
And then I want to take this in context of how they're saying this and maybe. And maybe put it on a little bit different approach, because they're saying, you know, go back to the city of Enoch. Not only were they one in heart, not only were they unified, but it also says, and there was no poor among them. And this idea of wealth and unity seems to be linked. And it says, I mean, Christ here in Doctrine and Covenants, he's saying, what manner of man has 12 sons? And you take one son and you clothe them nice and put them here, and then you take another son and put them in rags and set them here and says, what kind of father would do that? I surely would not.
And then he says, if you are not one, you are not mine. And he also prefaces it by saying, for I have heard your prayers, and the poor have complained before me, and the rich have I made, and all flesh is mine, and I am no respecter of persons, and I have made the earth rich. So if he is putting this idea of unification in context of wealth, and he says, I am not one that takes one son and dresses him wealthy and says, be here, and I take another son and put him in poverty and put him over here.
How do we.
How do we.
What's the word I'm looking for? How do we take that in? How do we understand that? I mean, is that not what God has done by distributing people to different areas of the world where you have wealthy nations and not so wealthy nations? Does God, he says, I have made the rich, have I made. Right. But he also has the poor complaining to him. So how does this idea of oneness, as we talk about causes, is this a cause that we should we be chasing? I mean, what does this tell us? How does that work? What are your thoughts on unity and wealth?
[00:57:08] Speaker B: Well, it is interesting because, again, like, we have other examples, I feel like throughout the New Testament especially, that give us some context of this. But we also have a lot of modern revelation that gives us context to this too. But it's interesting because as we talked about earlier in the Beatitudes, like who's. Who is blessed?
[00:57:26] Speaker C: Like who.
[00:57:27] Speaker B: Who. You know what I mean? It's like, who is. Who is basically inheriting the kingdom of.
[00:57:31] Speaker A: God, the poor and the humble.
[00:57:33] Speaker B: So, okay, so this, this I'm saying it's very interesting, right? And, and it's funny because, again, like, I. I personally. I personally probably interpret this, the New Testament, the way that the rich and the poor are supposed to work together, you know, maybe differently than other people do. But I think for me, it's fairly clear that Jesus says that we are under an obligation to care for our neighbor. Right?
Individually or as a church. Right. This is where I may split with some people. And again, whatever I might be right or wrong, but it's like, I don't know if Jesus necessarily says, hey, it's the government's responsibility to take all your money and give it to somebody else. Right. Instead. Because it's almost like, that's easy. That's lazy. That's the lazy way to do it, where God's putting it harder and he tells the rich young man, hey, you on your own, go out and sell everything you have, and then you take that money and you go give it to the poor. You know what I mean? And that's a very hard thing, at least at the time for that young rich person who, for all we understand, was. Probably had a good heart, you know, and was at least asking, hey, what can I do to make this right? I just feel like Jesus was fairly clear about what we're supposed to do, and that is we're supposed to use whatever we can to take care of those among us that need the help. Right?
But it is interesting, though, at the same time that it's. That it is that, like, the ideal for those who are actually entering into the kingdom of heaven are the poor in spirit, right? Or like the. The humble or whatever it is. Right. I don't know. It's. I think it's like. I just don't think it's as easy as, you know, rich people are bad and, you know what I mean? Or whatever it is, Right?
[00:59:29] Speaker A: Right. Right. Certainly not. I don't. Yeah, I would. I, Yeah, I would say absolutely not. Right? The. The Lord says he has made the rich. Right? And not only that, but God tells us that the earth is rich and he made the rich. He made the earth rich.
And I don't know if we were to paint in. In broad strokes here as we talk about the condition of the.
Before this idea, there's this silence. But then the angels are going to be wreaking destruction. And the Lord tells us that a lot of times the righteous suffer alongside with the wicked. So not to say that everyone was wicked who died in wars, or everyone was wicked who died in the revolts or the problems or everything that we've had. Certainly not.
[01:00:12] Speaker B: Or that you're being punished for being poor and that you must have done everything right if you're rich financially or something, which would just be insane.
[01:00:20] Speaker A: But look at how the world has changed from that point, from after all of these revolutions, after all of these destructions, to this idea where this king or this monarch would tell you, this is what you have to do. This is where your money is going. This is how much you get. This is how everything works. And it seems to me very similar to another plan that was proposed in the very beginning here. Let me tell you how this is going to go. Let me make sure that everybody is saved. Let me make sure that everyone is okay. Everyone is going to be good, because I am going to make everyone good.
[01:00:51] Speaker B: And I'm going to keep the glory because somebody there always has to still be somebody at the very top of that, right?
[01:00:58] Speaker A: Or let me allow you to make a choice and then you can receive glory in knowing that you did the right thing and no one made you do it. This idea is very empowering, and I feel like the world has changed to empower the people to make those choices. And as I look at the nations that contribute the most, the most charitable nations in the world, the United States, tops the list for the last 30 years running, of course, because you've got, yes, you have a lot of wealth here, but you also have a lot of people that are very charitable or very kind, that are giving because they are stable or they are happy. It is not harsh on the harp on the righteous, I think, or, excuse me, the wealthy. I think a lot of the wealthy in many cases are trying to help the poor. Maybe, maybe not. And maybe it's a very individual thing that you judge on. I know it's very easy for us to want to share, to want to help for a lot of people. I imagine listening to the show that I'm talking to, and maybe one of the harder things for us to learn is how to accept help or how to be the person in need. Nobody wants to be the person in need. We always want to be the one that's there giving help. We always want to be the one that's in that position where we can help others.
And my family, I mean, we've struggled Financially, in the past, and I tell you, we've gone through some really hard times as Christmas time was approaching, more than once we heard a knock on a door just to find an envelope with a thousand dollars sitting there. You know, how are we going to take care of Christmas with six kids? And other people were looking out for us. And I know these kind of stories.
[01:02:41] Speaker B: It's happened to us. It happened when I was a kid.
[01:02:43] Speaker A: Yeah, there are good people. There's a lot of good people.
[01:02:48] Speaker B: The thing is, I think that there's so much. And again, like, I'm not, I'm not. I don't want to. This has nothing to do with like, political views, but there is something that is so fulfilling, like, spiritually, temporally, all things with God are spiritual. As we talked about already though a couple episodes ago, that there's something that's just so much more deep when it's a person of their own free will giving of their means to somebody else. I mean, there just is right than to have it then to have you be compelled to have it taken from you to give to somebody. You know, I mean, like, like, like the plan. Like when you, like. Did you ever read. Did you ever read Like A Clockwork Orange?
[01:03:33] Speaker A: I haven't.
[01:03:34] Speaker B: Okay, so I did. And again, like, like, I love the book, but again, like, I also get it. And I'm not talking about, like seeing the movie, I'm talking about the actual book, right. Anthony Burgess. There's something so profound about the idea that it's like, is a man a righteous person if they're forced to be good? Like, that's the moral question, right? Like if you are compelled, if you have no choice but to do the correct moral thing, doesn't make you a good person if you had to be compelled to do that. Right? And of course, the anti hero of the book sows his wild oats and is a total knucklehead, but then later on in the book gives that up because he grows up and realizes that that's not what he wants to do. Right? And so again, it's just like, who is, who is the more.
Who is the more moral person? The person that is compelled to be good or the person that maybe even chooses to not be good, but then learns from that and either changes their ways or don't, right? Like, it's just the moral question, right?
And this is why again, like, I always come back to this idea. When Christ was talking to the rich young man, he told him very, very clearly what he wanted him to do.
You on your own, go sell what it is that you have, and then give it all away.
And then come follow me, which, by the way, is obviously the most crucial part of that parable. And then come follow me.
That's.
There's something. There's something that I'm okay with when he decided not to do that, because that was a hard thing for him to do. And we don't know. And I know it's probably been talked about, but we also don't know the end of that story either, right? We don't know.
We don't know because he was a young person. And, dude, it's even harder when you're a young person and you don't have that wisdom necessarily at the time. You know what I mean? It's just like. It's just like, I don't judge that person harshly at all in that story because I. I understand. I. You know what I mean? It's like, I understand that character. And so there's something, again, to just kind of bring this back full circle, right? That.
Yeah, we also had people drop off money and toys and things like that. Right.
Not only did that bless our lives, but, like, I can't.
Well, I can, because luckily, we've been able to help do some things, you know what I mean? Like, through the years, too. But it's like that blesses everybody involved.
[01:06:23] Speaker A: It does.
[01:06:24] Speaker B: Every single person that's involved in that is blessed. Right.
[01:06:27] Speaker A: In ways you can't even see.
[01:06:29] Speaker B: Oh, but the thing. But in a lot of ways that you can.
[01:06:32] Speaker A: Yes.
[01:06:33] Speaker B: You know what I mean? I think that that's kind of still, too. My point that I've taken, unfortunately, 10 minutes to kind of come around to is that it's like, if we can do what God's asking us to do, and that is to not let there be any poor among us. And again, we're not all in a financial position where we can make that happen. Right.
And sometimes that's not just obviously going and just giving money to somebody. Right. Like, it's so much more nuanced and complicated than that. Right?
[01:07:02] Speaker A: Absolutely.
[01:07:04] Speaker B: And again, like, I have a problem when people try to simplify this in. In various ways that, again, we don't need to get into on the podcast. But the thing is, is that if we are listening to promptings we're told we're given, if we're. Especially if we're praying for those opportunities to bless somebody's life, it might not have anything to do with money, right? Maybe it does. Maybe it doesn't. But all I guess I'm trying to say is this. Like, I feel like it's fairly specific and clear what we're being told to do. And that is we're being told to go and bless people's lives and not let there be any poor among us in more ways than just financially.
[01:07:51] Speaker A: How many times does the Lord promise us treasure that moth and rust will not corrupt.
[01:07:56] Speaker B: Exactly right.
[01:07:58] Speaker A: And there is no poor. I mean, the sense that poor, meaning you need something and the idea that your needs are being met, you're happy. I think that's what everyone's searching for. Right. And maybe you're searching through it for money, or maybe you're searching through it through family or whatever the way you're doing for it. Ultimately, you're wealthy in happiness and contentment, or you're missing something that's keeping you from being happy. And this idea that you're unified and happy, I think.
[01:08:28] Speaker B: Well, even. I mean, wasn't it in Mosiah that King Benjamin was even like, hey, it's totally fine to be wealthy, like, as long as you use your means to help other people and as long as you use your means righteously.
[01:08:44] Speaker A: Yes.
[01:08:45] Speaker B: Wasn't it King Benjamin?
[01:08:46] Speaker A: It was. And search first the kingdom of God, and then you shall be wealthy. And if you will be wealthy, if your heart is so that you can. And he gives us all sorts of steps. Yeah. Yes.
[01:08:56] Speaker B: But it's still to bless the lives of other people. And the thing is. And again, I know we've talked about this. Again, I know we need to move on, but the thing is, there's, like, this is. For me, at least, this is all very profound. Right? Because the thing is, is that I.
Man, I remember the first time. I just. I'm saying, like, I just remember the first time I was able to pay for lunch for an entire group of friends without having to think about it. And again, like, it ended up being, I don't know, a hundred bucks. So it's not like it was crazy, but, dude, living, you know what I mean, years and years and years where that's a huge, huge, huge deal. It was so amazing to go, hey, like, I loved being able to do that. I love. Because the thing is, I had people doing that for me for so long that it was just like, hey, I love the idea that, like, if nothing else, I can provide a meal. And again, like, even when I was serving a mission in Oakland, we had a lot of Polynesian members of the church out there and the most giving people in the entire world, whether or not they even had the means to do it.
But it was always followed up with, it always comes back. It always comes back. And I've always loved that idea, right? I've always loved that idea. And I just like, I am not a wealthy person financially whatsoever. But there is something that is that I love at least being able to buy a meal for a friend. At least pay for dinner when we go out or when family goes out to dinner, right? And the thing is, I would hope that because I'm trying to be wealthy, like, I'm not gonna lie about that. I love the freedom that finances give you. But I also love the idea that it's like, man, if I love being able to just buy a meal for friends, man, wouldn't it be awesome to have just a grip of cash? You know what I mean? To be like, hey, let me help build some houses for some people that are homeless, you know what I mean? Or whatever. It's like, I guess I'm just saying I would hope that. But I would hope that if I ever am able to be blessed enough to be ridiculously wealthy, that God would know that hopefully my heart would be in the right place. Because I do genuinely love the idea of going, like, cool, man, if I have money that I don't need for my own needs and stuff like that. I love the idea of finding creative ways of using that to bless other people's lives. And then in that sort of way, then it's just like, cool. I need to make sure that I'm never resenting wealth, that I'm never resenting somebody else with wealth. Because you can look at all kinds of charitable things that those people are doing with their money, too. Do you know what I mean? Then it's just like, okay, cool. Like, what am I gonna say, you know, at that point, right? Thank you for building that school. You know, thank you for giving that scholarship to a person in need. You know what I mean? It's like, there's all kinds of things where I'm just like, oh, yeah, why am I going to hate on that person for having wealth? This person is blessing the world with their wealth.
[01:11:55] Speaker A: Well, it's something that you've said to me in a conversation that we've had kind of outside of. This is, you've got the law of tithing.
That's kind of easy. It's just fix. It's set. This is what you do. This is it. But then when it comes to the other, are we generous with our fast offering? Are we Generous with helping people. Do we donate? Do we. I mean, how much do we do there? It almost is like the Lord is trusting us. He's not going to dictate, he's not going to mandate. But maybe the law of consecration is something that we're already living to an extent of interesting. Where do we draw that line? And are we giving as much as we can, when we can? I mean, ultimately, maybe. I could wrap this with two statements. One, when Christ says, when you helped the naked, you clothed the naked, you fed the hungry. When you took care of the sick or visited those that were in prison, you did it to me. When you did it to the least of these, you did it to me. And then in the Book of Mormon, I know not all of us are in a position where we can give as much as we would like to, but when they say, even if you don't have enough, but in your heart, you say, if I did, I would, it still counts. God understands all things are present before his eyes. And there is a lot of generous, kind people.
My mom just absolutely wonderful. And she says sometimes, you know, maybe I was never wealthy just because if I did, I'd give it all away and be right back to where I was. I mean, she was always. She is, she's always giving everything that she has.
But one, one statement here that I want to kind of finish this podcast up with is one that the earth that the Lord tells us that the earth is rich. And the thing is, economy is driven by scarcity. And scarcity is kind of this critical thing, right? Because there's scarcity, there's trade, or there's this or there's that. And it drives competition. And competition is what makes the world go round. And you have people always saying in science and modern day, you always have people saying, there's not enough. We're running out of water, we're running out of resources, we're overpopulating, we've got problems here. There's not enough. How do we balance that with when the Lord says, there's enough and to spare the earth, I made rich. And this was kind of an interesting thing for me as I picked up on this back in 1968. Paul R.
Ehrlich, a Stanford biologist who studied butterflies and noticing their population as it would overcrowd and problems with the population, would take his. His data and extrapolate it to apply to the human population. And he wrote a book called the Population Bomb. And the opening statement says, the battle to feed all of humanity is over.
And he predicted that 65 million Americans would starve to death in the 1970s. And if America is starving to death in the 70s, what does that mean about India? He said India would be wiped out, devastated, gone. Right. He also stated that England would no longer exist in the year 2000.
He stated conclusively, sometime in the next 15 years, the end will come. And defining the end, he said, an utter breakdown of the capacity of the planet to support humanity.
He said a lot of other crazy things. We won't get into it too much, but obviously, as we look back, he was wrong. And there are some interesting things here that happened. And to me, if I could show you this in a graph, it is fascinating. The population exploded in growth exponentially, just as he said, we have more than doubled what the world population was at the time of the writing. So what does that mean to famine? What does that mean to the death and overcrowding? And what has happened to the people? As you look, death due to famine has decreased exponentially to the point that back in 1968, when he wrote this book, one in four people were hungry in the world. That number is less than 1 in 10 today. All of a sudden, not only has the food shortages and famines almost disappeared, but our problem today isn't with starvation, but overeating.
[01:16:01] Speaker B: Yeah, totally. I can attest to that.
[01:16:03] Speaker A: The average person today is wealthier, healthier and better fed than 1968, and yet the population is twice as high today as it was then. What changed? What happened?
And what he didn't account for was advances in food production and agriculture. As you see how fast this took off and revolutionized the world to now all of a sudden the earth can support enough and more. So we thought we were running out of room back in 1968, and now our population has doubled. And not only that, but there's no more starving. I mean, obviously there are some people that starve in the world, but to the extent of what we saw in 1968, drastically reduced with twice the population. And so I just wanted to give a few instances where this has happened, because the population bomb that fizzled back in the 60s is not the first time this has happened.
The Greeks ran out of tin 3,000 years ago, and because they did, it led to the advent of iron, which was a far superior metal. And that ended the Bronze Age and ushered into Iron Age.
Later, when timber shortage happened, it led to the discovery of coal, which was far more efficient for burning. And the idea that even today a lot of our power plants run off of Coal, the advances in technology that have come because we ran out or because we thought we were doomed and we didn't have enough. And then we realized there was something more powerful or something there more that God was right. The earth he made rich to support our needs. And then, I mean, it goes on. The shortage in well oil led to the first oil well that was discovered. So as we harp on natural whale oil, oil, well, whatever, yeah, as we look at these fossil fuels, yes, we've probably reached a time where we're starting to run low, or not run low. We want to remove our dependency on those, but realize the dependency on those got us where we are at today and helped save well populations where we were whaling those to death. And now we have switched, we have changed. The thing is, as we get more advanced, the Lord feeds us line upon line. And as we get to the end of that line and we start to panic or we start to worry and we start to see, like Peter, the waves that start coming around us, you know what? There is nothing wrong with that. It is good, it is healthy. Because hopefully that turns our focus to the Lord. And he has poured revelation down not just upon the saints, but upon the world. And a lot of times, the same science that is criticizing and saying, no, there is not is the same science that is providing us with the solution for the future as God provides for us and more.
Just finishing real quick.
According to wheatlife.org, a family of four can live off of two years off of the wheat that's produced in a single acre. So one acre of wheat is enough wheat to sustain a family of four for two years. An acre of wheat produces, on average in the United States, 37 bushels of wheat. One bushel weighs about 60 pounds. So that means one acre produces about 2,226 pounds of wheat a year. Sorry, a lot of numbers there. So £2,000 roughly of wheat per year in an acre. Where I work, I'm a data scientist or a data analyst at a. At a place where we do indoor growing. So we've got this tower, this machine. It's about a 20 by 30 foot footprint. That's all the space it takes. And it's about three stories high. And in here it takes wheat grains, puts a little bit of water on it, turns it around, goes through light and whatnot. But one of these machines in the 20 by 30 foot footprint is able to harvest 6,000 pounds of wheat a day.
So in less than an acre, we can pop 10 of these machines up and produce £60,000 of wheat a day.
The world is changing, and I get it. I understand the need to focus on causes. As the Lord says, be anxiously engaged. Don't wait for me to command you what to do. And he tells us, be wise stewards of the earth. We do need to be concerned. We do need to care. But when we do it, let's not focus or let's not lose focus on the Savior. Let's not get so distracted by the waves that are crashing around us and the wind that's lifting up that we forget to focus on the Lord. And it might seem overly simplistic, but what I take out of this lesson is as we focus on the Savior, the Lord has promised, as we become one with him, we become one with others, we become one. He will provide for us. And there will be no poor among you, and there is enough to spare. And the Lord will take care of us.
[01:21:02] Speaker B: I love it, man.
[01:21:03] Speaker A: Okay, thank you guys for tuning in. Next week, we are going to be talking about doctrine covenants. Let's see, sections. Well, 41 on a little bit there. I can't remember right off the top of my head, but we'll. We'll dive there when we get there.
[01:21:18] Speaker B: Until next week. See ya.
