D&C 10 – 11(2025 repost)

[00:00:10] Speaker A: Welcome to the weekly Deep Dive podcast on the Add On Education Network. The podcast where we explore the weekly Come follow me discussions and try to add a little insight and unique perspective. I am your host, Jason Lloyd, here with my friend and this show's producer, Nate Pifer. [00:00:25] Speaker B: What is up? [00:00:26] Speaker A: Hey. So in this episode we will be asking the question, was Martin Harris a wicked man? Do the ends justify the means? And then also we are looking at the imagery of Christ as a mother hen gathering her chicks. We will talk a little bit more about the field being white and ready to harvest and what does it actually mean to be harvesting in the field and why? I don't think that pertains just to missionary work. So let's take a look at it. Let's dive in right at the start before we get too far into here. Doctrine and covenants, section 10, the Lord is telling Joseph Smith, verse one and two. I just want to read this now. Behold, I say unto you that because you delivered up those writings which you had power given unto you to translate by the means of the Urim and Thummim into the hands of a wicked man, you have lost them. And you also lost your gift at the same time, and your mind became darkened. And in a previous episode, we talked about how the Lord told him, you have one gift, and I'm not giving you any other gifts. And I don't even want you to pretend like you have another gift. You had one gift. And I just can't help but almost see that meme as I read these, like looking here and the Lord saying, you lost your gift. You had one gift, Joseph, one job. And this is how it turned out. But I do think it's interesting, he says, because you delivered it into the hands of a wicked man. We talked about Martin Harris. We talked about how he was stuck in a hard spot with his wife and pressures and what was going on at home. Was he a wicked man? Where is the Lord going with this? And why does he accuse him of being a wicked man? Did he have evil intentions? What's the deal with Martin Harris? And honestly, I don't really have a good answer for that. I'm not really in a place where I could say yes or no or what happened. I guess I kind of have to take the Lord's work, you know, the Lord's word on this one. But I do find it. I mean, I don't want to dive into too much of the accounts that were happening back then at that time, because there's a lot of hearsay of some people said this or that. There's stories that, you know, Martin Harris had covenanted that he would only show the manuscript to family. And a neighbor had come by to see the manuscript. And the story goes that Martin Harris went to get it, and it was locked up in his wife's cabinet. And so he busted the lock to get it out to show it to a neighbor, even though it wasn't a friend. So he had broken the covenant with showing it to people that he wasn't supposed to be showing it to. There are stories or accounts of people at that time that said that Martin Harris was so distraught about the pages being lost and he wanted to recover them so bad that he even beat his wife with a rod trying to figure out where she put it, what she did with it, and what's going on. [00:03:21] Speaker B: I'll go ahead and take a stab at the first question. Yes, Harris was a wicked man. [00:03:27] Speaker A: And I don't want to go down that road. [00:03:30] Speaker B: You don't have to go down that road. But the dude screwed up and then beat his wife up over it. It's like. That feels like a fairly easy question to answer. [00:03:36] Speaker A: It does. [00:03:37] Speaker B: In context. I'm sorry, but I. [00:03:40] Speaker A: But I do want to say this. These accounts are people saying they heard this or this was written at the time period that people are saying this is what Martin did. But it's not like it was a firsthand account or this is something that we know for sure. [00:03:56] Speaker B: You're right. We got to be careful about that stuff. If that is what happened, I should say that. If that is what happened, I think that I'm for sure going to take the Lord's word on this and say that the answer would be yes. [00:04:08] Speaker A: Yeah. And I don't want to get lost too much in the weeds talking about what could have happened or what didn't happen. But I do want to say it's interesting because Joseph Smith is judging him as a righteous man, but the Lord is calling him out and saying that at this time he was a wicked man. And so sometimes who we think are righteous are not as righteous as we think, or who we think are wicked are not as wicked as we think. And I think that is a big lesson that is going to play out as we go through this section. So let's look at example the thieves that stole the pages, whoever they were. And I don't want to cast light on this and say it was Martin Harris or it was his wife or it was his neighbor, because the truth of the matter is we really don't know who took it. But because of this revelation, we know what they were trying to do with it, right? It says that they wanted to take the pages and change what was written on them so that when Joseph Smith retranslated them, they could say, look, he's not a prophet of God. The reason why he's not is if he was a prophet of God, he would have been able to translate it again word for word. But we've changed the words here so that it'll show that he's not a prophet of God. And you think, well, that, that does sound pretty wicked. But what you've got to understand these guys. So here, verse 25, yea, he saith unto them, now he is referring to Satan and them is referring to the group of people. So it sounds like based on what the Lord's saying, it's not just a single person, but conspirators here. There's people that are getting together to try to frustrate or stop this work. So Satan is trying to influence them or guide them in hindering the work. He saith unto them, deceive and lie and wait to catch that you may destroy. And behold, it is no harm. And thus he flattereth them and telleth them that it is no sin to lie, that they may catch a man in a lie, that they may destroy him. So it's not that they are these wicked people trying to destroy a righteous man. In their minds, they have believed the narrative that Joseph Smith is a fraudster. The this is not the work of God. And if he somehow translates everything correctly, he's going to be misleading even more people. And we've got to do something to stop this. In their mind, they are acting righteously and they're saying, how can we save the world? Because it says that if we do this, we might expose a wicked man. Let's see in verse 19, therefore we will destroy him and also the work. And we will do this that we may not be ashamed in the end and that we may get glory of the world. So their end game here, their end game was to save the world, to have the praise of the world by exposing a fraudster and preventing him from misleading anyone else. And the weird thing is they're actually accomplishing the opposite. Because what's the end game really going to be when they find out they were really trying to frustrate God's work? They were looking for the praise of the world and they should have been focused on the praise of God. But in some Sense. I think they really believed that they were trying to, and they thought it's okay to lie, it's okay to change the words if the end justifies the means. If at the end of the day, we can prove that he's a fraud and save other people, save other families from wasting their money or wasting their lives or believing in this lie. And I think that was what drove a lot of persecution against the church in that time. It's not that you had all of these people that wanted to literally destroy God. Satan's, for the most part, the way he deceives us is not by getting us to do what we know is clearly wrong, but by getting us passionate about a perspective that we think is right or wrong and creating divisiveness. [00:08:18] Speaker B: I mean, that's such a universal thing. Not even just with religion, but with politics and all kinds of things too. The idea that we're so certain about something that we're not actually correct about, that you're willing to. You know what I mean? You're willing to do anything that it takes to try to, like you said, see, see your ideas through. And if you look at so much of, like, the violence in the world over religion and politics and stuff like that, it's that people are certain that they're right. And therefore it's worth physically hurting people or killing people in some circumstances or lying about things and cheating about things. It's. It's. You're right. It's like you almost can't get so upset at these people. You know what I mean? It's like you just said, you can't judge them too harshly because even though they were wrong in their hearts, they may have felt like it's worth doing this because in the end, it's the right thing to do. And it's always a good thing to always kind of check yourself too. You know what I mean? If you find yourself doing something that deep down you know is wrong, even though you're trying to justify it, like, well, but my side of this is right, so it's worth doing it. I mean, that's. That's a good. That's such a good thing to always kind of keep in mind. I feel like just in general, because Satan's. [00:09:43] Speaker A: He's playing on emotion, right? And is that not what God does when. When we feel good about something or we feel our cause is just or we feel justified? And yet here's Satan trying to justify them and saying, yeah, you know, you should do it. He's stirring them up. He's getting them, he's getting them to feel something and to feel like their cause is just like if they can expose this frauds, they're going to be doing the world a favor. And a lot of times we are carried away by emotion without really recognizing where that emotion is coming from. I mean, you said it so well. If this section teaches me anything, it's that I'm a terrible judge of character. I mean, you look at these people thinking they're being righteous and then you think of Joseph Smith trying to credit Martin Harris. And even last show we were talking about Martin Harris. Both of us were sitting there trying to defend him and talk about how he's a righteous man and yet God is saying, no, he was wicked. Oh, and these people saying, oh, we're righteous. And God said, no, you're wicked. If I learn anything from this section, it's that we don't always get it right. And that's where it says in verse 37. But as you. So this is God talking to Joseph Smith. But as you cannot always judge the righteous, or as you cannot always tell the wicked from the righteous, therefore I say unto you, hold your peace until I shall see fit to make all things known unto the world concerning this matter. [00:11:08] Speaker B: It's just some good advice in general, probably, right? [00:11:10] Speaker A: Yeah. He says you could tell righteous people, but you obviously don't always make the right call of who is righteous. And we can't see what's really driving people or motivating people or how that plays into God's plan or purposes for us. And if we can't tell, it reminds me of the scripture, right, Judge not lest you be judged. Well, it says judge not unrighteously. We always. [00:11:35] Speaker B: I was going to say, I feel like instead, judge righteously is the correct way to go about that. [00:11:42] Speaker A: Yes, we've always got to be making judgment calls on how we trust people and our interactions with people. It's the nature of things. But maybe because we can't always tell the righteous from the unrighteous, we should really be looking for the Lord and letting him make that judgment call and then trusting what the Lord tells us and say, okay, should I be doing this? Should I be trusting this person and going to the Lord? And I think that's one thing that these people got wrong. Because you look in verse 21, the conspirators, as they're trying to do this great, what they perceive as righteousness, this great good thing which is really evil, it says, and their hearts are corrupt and full of wickedness and abominations. And they love darkness rather than light because their deeds are evil, therefore they will not ask of me. And I think that's the difference here is God saying, you don't always get it right. You're not always sure. Sometimes we're too harsh. We're critical of people. We judge them to be wrong when they're right. Or sometimes we judge right people to be right, or, excuse me, wrong people to be right when they're wrong. And if we're ever in doubt, the Lord says he can tell. And all it takes is just us taking a moment, taking a break, and asking God. And maybe when we get heated up in our political discussions or we are in the climate that we are living in today, which is not too dissimilar from Joseph Smith's time, when they are saying, over here we have got the truth, or over here we have got the truth, maybe before we get all passionate, riled up and following our emotions, we should take that break and ask the Lord and say, help me to understand their perspective or help me to understand what they see, and let's see what we can do to make that righteous judgment. [00:13:27] Speaker B: I like. [00:13:29] Speaker A: Does bring up a few questions in my mind when I look at the FBI. I get articles from them all the time about what's going on and what they're doing. And a few of the cases I've seen come across. My email is where they set somebody up, right? It's kind of interesting because they'll pose as a website for terrorists and they'll get people on there. And then they'll try to encourage them to the point where the FBI is buying fake explosives, fake detonators, and really pushing the person to the edge and getting them to carry out this plan that the FBI designed, right? And the point is, it's okay to lie. It's okay to say all these things. And if we catch someone in the act of lying, at the end, we're going to be exposing a fraudster. And they've done that where they bought the fake explosives, they bought the fake detonator, they put a plan for the guy to drive in and bomb the White House. And when the guy shows up with the van of all the fake explosives, they arrest him on the spot and they set him up. And you have to wonder, you know, I don't know. I can't say it's right. I can't say it's wrong. On the one side, you look at this and Satan's saying, well, it's okay to Lie as long as you can expose a liar. And then you say, well, do the ends justify the means? Is that really right? Is that really wrong? And if you want to take the high road and say, well, absolutely not. You should never lie, well, then, what about Nephi, when he cuts off Laban's head, right when he goes in there and the Lord says it's okay? Well, Nephi is also putting on his garments and pretending to be someone he's not and lying in order to get the plates. [00:15:05] Speaker B: And also breaking one of the ten Commandments of thou shalt not kill. It's beyond even lying. Lying's the least of his, as I say, like him. Him. Just him. Him not necessarily being dressed in his own clothes is, I would say, the least of. You know what I mean? There's definitely some rub there. [00:15:28] Speaker A: There is. And you look at Moroni and all the deception he used in warfare to save his people, right? The feints that they'd have, or they'd send a small army and run and see if the army will chase them and have everyone lying in wait. And so you do have deception. You have spycraft, you have espionage. And you say, the ends justify the means. And I don't want to be a blanket statement and say, yes, that's wrong. No, the FBI shouldn't be doing that, or, yes, you should be doing that, because honestly, just like the Lord says right here, you don't judge righteously and unrighteously. You can't always see. You can't always make that distinction. I guess, ultimately, if it comes down to us making the decision, the best decision we can make is defer to the Lord and trust in what he wants us to do. Because obviously, there are cases where this seems to be the right path. But you take. But I did want to kind of open that can of worms just to get us thinking about that and realizing we're not always the best judges of. [00:16:23] Speaker B: Well, another point that this brings up, and it's something that I've tried to be better about, understanding and in my own, you know, sphere of influence, like preaching, and that is that. That there is very little black and white and that there's so much gray. You know what I mean? Like, there's so much nuance. And these things that you just described are the perfect illustration of that, which is, like, it's very hard to look at a human and be like, that person is an evil person. Like. Like, what about all of the good that they do? You know? I mean, like, we don't. It's like, are they only, like 50% evil? And does 50% count as an evil? You know what I mean? Or every single person who has sin and who does something wrong. It's like, do we really want to try to parse out how much evil does a person have to do to be technically an evil person or a good person? Or can we just accept that a human being is so nuanced and so complex and that you may see even the worst behavior of somebody, but you don't necessarily know how they got to that behavior or what influences in their life shaped them and conditioned them to. Even if they're thinking terribly or doing terrible things, it's like, even then sometimes we just don't. We can't know all of the things that shaped that person to get to that point. Right. And so, again, I'm really glad you're bringing these things up because I will always love to carry this banner, which is be very careful with how harsh we are. You know what I mean? And even if somebody has done terrible things, it's like, yeah, there still needs to be justice and people need to be held accountable for their terrible decisions and the things that they say. It's one of the reasons, though, that, like, I can't even stomach, like, the idea of cancel culture because I'm just like, oh, man. Like, we're literally going to. We're literally going to judge everybody by only their worst moments sometimes for things that happened years and years ago, you know what I mean? Like, for most of it, it just completely gets rid of the idea that, like, a person can grow, a person can change. A person may still even think and say terrible things, but we can't know of all of the ways that that person got there. I guess all I'm trying to say. And so I love these discussions because it's such a good chance just to remind everybody, like, hey, how about instead we cut people some slack and try to accept and educate and talk through our own things instead of just immediately being like, oh, that's a bad person. [00:19:15] Speaker A: Absolutely. As I was thinking about this, as you were talking, we were saying that Satan plays on feelings and emotions just as God plays on feelings and emotions. And both sides can be stirring us up. I think when we are trying to make judgment on a person or we are trying to look at that and trying to argue our point or trying to say, this is my cause, we've got to look at what emotions are driving us to that conclusion or to that discussion or to say what we're going to say. Because if we're saying what we're saying because of fear or because of hate or anger or anger, then we've got to look at those emotions and say, wait a second. Who might be motivating me to be lashing out the way I am. Or to be critical or saying, this is why this is, right? This is, you know, as opposed to, is it love? And I think that's a good way to check that. And ultimately, the best case or the best example that we can find of this is verse 57. Behold, I am Jesus Christ, the Son of God. Right? Who greater than that? I am Jesus Christ, the Son of God. I came unto mine own, and mine own received me. Not even the Son of God. God himself born here on earth to his people. And yet they judged him to be wicked. So we just got to check that and, you know, follow our emotions. Is it because we are afraid of what he is teaching? Is it afraid that that's going to tear down our congregations? Are we afraid that that's going to reform and change the world in a way that we don't want to see it? Are we angry for what he's doing? Or is it love that's driving us to listen, hear him out, or see what we need to do? All right. The next thing I wanted to talk about as I look through these sections. Is the interesting thing about the people here in America. Because he says that we're going to prosper here. And the reason why we're going to prosper is because of the ancients. The prayers of the ancients to bless us here in America. And I thought that was fascinating. Because he says, yea, and this was their faith. Speaking of the people that lived here before that. My gospel, which I gave unto them. That they might preach in their days. Might come unto their brethren, the Lamanites. And also all that had become Lamanites because of their dissensions. Now, this is not all. Their faith and their prayers was that this gospel should be made known. Also, if it were possible, that other nations should possess this land. And also they did leave their blessing upon this land in their prayers. That whosoever should believe in this gospel in this land might have eternal life. Yea, that it might be free unto all of whatsoever nation, kindred or tongue or people they may be. And now, behold, according to their faith in their prayers. Will I bring this part of my gospel to the knowledge of my people. Behold, I do not bring it to destroy that which they have received. But to build it up. And I Think it's, you know, I feel super blessed to be born here in the United States, to live in America, a land where I feel like we've had a lot of opportunity, a land that has a great heritage, a history of, I would say, divine providence in protecting this land. The land that the very first written constitution was created, where the government was not established to suppress the people, but the people authorized the government and limited the government based on the people that it was ruling. And you had this area where the gospel could be restored. And we look at all of these blessings, and we look at how we've been preserved and how this country hasn't had to fight off foreign invaders. We've really been blessed. We've had it really good. We've been very prosperous, very industrious. And you look at it and it'd be very easy to say, oh, it's because we're the best in the world, or we're great, or build up that pride. But really, the Lord's kind of saying, there's a reason why I brought the gospel here. There's a reason why I restored the church here. There's a reason why this land is blessed. It really has nothing to do with you guys. It has everything to do with the people that lived here before that were righteous and faithful and praying and dedicating this for you guys, for this opportunity to come here and really reform and change and bless the world over because of their faith that this could go out to all nations. So just kind of an interesting. Why is our country so great? And maybe we should have just a little bit of a pride check here. Maybe it's not so great because we are better than anyone else. Maybe it is great because the Lord made promises to people that were here that he would bring his gospel from here out to the rest of the world. And because of that and because of this light, that we would be like a light on a hill. We would be like an example. And there is the Lord behind this work. And that is why it seemed to go off as. As well and as powerful as it had. All right, now, moving over to the next part I wanted to talk about. The Lord talks about how often he would have gathered his people like a mother hen. And it's something you've heard before. It's mentioned here in Doctrine and Covenants, but it's also mentioned in Third Nephi. When you have all of this destruction and darkness on the earth, the Lord says, how often would I have gathered you under my wings like a hen? If you would have come to me. And I have to pause and just think about this. The Lord is often, you know, this male, unblemished lamb or a bull, or figured as a man, right? He's the Lord, he's God, he's male. Christ is born as man, but he's using here, a female chicken, a hen, to refer to himself. And he's putting himself in a motherly way. Why is he not using a masculine imagery to portray himself? Especially if he's trying to portray a message of strength. I would have protected you. Wouldn't you think a father would be a good protector? Like, if you would have come here, I'd have been like a bull. I would have knocked anyone over or tried to do anything to them if they, you know, a father. But I think it's unique that he's putting himself in the role, not of a father, but. But as a mother. And he does this a couple times. In Isaiah, chapter 53, the Lord, it says, as a lamb to the slaughter was dumb, right? And he's talking about this, the sheep. But the word for lamb is Rachel in Hebrew, and it means a female lamb. Now, I want you to think about Isaiah 53, some of the words that he uses, the imagery here. He says, surely he hath carried your griefs and borne your sicknesses. He's talking about carrying and bearing. And you talk about a mother and child bearing. You know, she bears a child and she carries him for nine months. And this process he's almost describing, well, he's talking about himself in a female sheep, a female role. And he's going to be using these adjectives, and it keeps going. It says, who shall declare his generation? Now, I know this is your favorite part in the scriptures, Nate, when we start reading there, when they say they're declaring a generation, it's who begat who begat who begat who? [00:26:54] Speaker B: Oh, man, you know that I just, like, totally perked up right there. We're going to be talking about some begats. [00:27:00] Speaker A: Yeah, begetting. We're going to skip the begetting today. But that's what he's saying when he's saying, who shall declare his generation? Who are his kids? That's the question. Who shall declare his generation for why? Because he was cut off from the land of the living. He has no generation who shall declare his generation. He's going to be cut off from the land of the living. There won't be a generation to declare. They're going to kill him before he can have kids. But when it Talks about him on the cross. In fact, this is. This is powerful enough. I should probably read it and not be paraphrasing it. He Sundays, so Isaiah 53. And we're getting to the end of the chapter. [00:27:42] Speaker B: Hold on. Are we. I just want to. I want to feel like I'm really smart here for a minute. Okay, Are we going to be talking about how when he was stabbed in the side, like, blood and water came out? [00:27:52] Speaker A: No, not quite. [00:27:53] Speaker B: Okay, but hold on. Think of childbirth. [00:27:56] Speaker A: No, you're right. You're not wrong. [00:27:57] Speaker B: I'm just saying, like, if we're. If we're having. If. If there's the imagery of the. Of the womanhood. You know what I mean? [00:28:03] Speaker A: I am super glad you said that. [00:28:05] Speaker B: It's like there's even. There's even the references of. Of the blood and the water, of, like, the childbirth process. [00:28:11] Speaker A: I am so glad you said that. Nate. [00:28:15] Speaker B: Nate, can I be smart for a minute? [00:28:17] Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely. [00:28:18] Speaker B: Not only can I use the computer to record this occasionally, I know something in the scriptures. This is good. [00:28:25] Speaker A: No, that was a perfect tie in. Thank you. Yeah. So verse four was, he hath borne our griefs and carried our sorrows. So you've got kind of that first imagery of childbearing and carrying a child. And then we get it in verse 8, who shall declare his generation? For he was cut off out of the land of the living. Right. But it says in verse 10, but yet when you shall make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed. And you go to Abinadi in Mosiah. When he explains these passages to the priest, he says, why is he going to see his seed? Then who are his seed? Well, you become born of Christ when you accept his word and you follow him. You are his seed. So even though he was cut off from the land of living and didn't have a generation, now he's going to have all sorts of generations. Think about that in terms of section Isaiah 54, when it says, sing, O barren, thou that did not bear, break forth into singing, for thou that does not travail with child. For more are the children of the desolate than the children of the married. Wow. [00:29:37] Speaker B: Honestly, that's incredible. Yeah, he's not imagery wise. That's. That's unbelievable. I've never thought of it like that. [00:29:45] Speaker A: He's kind of portraying himself not as the Father. We think of him as the groom, and the church as the bride and the church were born through the church, through baptism. And like you said, you know, the water and the blood. But here Christ is taking on a very motherly role. And you see it in the very next chapter of Isaiah. He says, more are the children of the desolate than the married. He's saying this atonement is how we are born. And Christ is taking on this female role of being our mother, not just our Father, but our mother. And that he was willing to give his life to birth us or give us a life, because it says, it even puts it in here, the travail of his soul. He shall see the travail of his soul and shall be satisfied. And they make comparisons to that when a mother travails and how painful it is in child labor. But when she sees her child born, she forgets the travail and is filled with happiness. Christ is suffering on the cross, something that he asked the Father if the cup could pass by him. And he is travailing and going through this pain. And yet when he shall see the travail of his soul, when he sees us accept that gospel, then. Then he shall be happy. Then his soul shall be satisfied. [00:30:58] Speaker B: Even in the. Even in the garden of Gethsemane, as he was suffering. It was. It was blood of sweat, right? [00:31:03] Speaker A: Absolutely. Sweat and blood. Water and blood. And I'm so glad you mentioned that about the cross. I wasn't going to say that. And I'm glad you did because, yeah, that's an absolute great connection because they're piercing his side almost like a Caesarean section. And the cool thing is. Why do they call it a Caesarean section? Caesar, right? He's the one that started the Romans. That's where caesarean comes from. And he was pierced by a Roman, almost like a C section. I mean, maybe I'm going too far with this. [00:31:32] Speaker B: I mean, I think that's. I think that. I think that this is why I am and have always been so fascinated by the way that the scriptures have so many levels of stuff like this that it's. Again, it's just. It's beautiful as far as. Just like a, you know, reading it and poetry and things like that. But then when you. When you can find all of these unbelievable spiritual connections on these different levels. I mean, that's. It's why. I know it's kind of off topic a little bit, but it's why I've. I've always loved the parables and. And I've always loved the idea that, you know, Jesus is basically like, look, for everybody in general, it'll be a nice story. And for those that have eyes to See and ears to hear. You'll. You'll understand what it is that I'm trying to say and whatever. I guess I just love the depth of it, you know, I love. I love. It's why I like doing this podcast, is because I love learning about all this. These layers that I would have never had any idea about. [00:32:27] Speaker A: Oh, it's so rich. And I guess, you know, that's what I enjoy about it, too. So many times we go over the same lessons or the same things that we're very familiar with, but to be able to see it differently or go on that journey and see a different level or different perspective. I mean, you mentioning that the blood being pierced on the side and the. I don't know that it is. There's always something new to discover, and it makes it worth it every time. And the cool thing I think, is you're a parent, Nate, and I know. Well, I imagine you've had an experience like this. I imagine most of us dads have. When your kid is sad or crying and you want to go and say, okay, what's going on? Do you want a hug? And as a dad, I'll come to my little one like, hey, man, what's going on? You want Daddy to give you a hug? Usually the answer is like, no, he wants Mom. I don't know, for whatever it is, I can't love my kids like my wife does. Or at least they can't love me the way they love their mom. And they've got that attachment, right? Some things you go to dad for, some things you go to mom for. But for Christ, he's earned the title of both. It's not just that we can go to him for what we'd normally go from a dad, that we seek this idea or this father figure out of him, but also that he reaches out to us from both perspectives or both sides and say, you know, I've been through what you've been through. I gave my life. I've suffered like you. He's earned that almost that motherhood title, which is such a sacred, powerful title and hats off to women everywhere, because if you're going to pick an image to represent God, to use the image of motherhood is so powerful, it's a credit to women everywhere. [00:34:13] Speaker B: I agree. I love it. [00:34:15] Speaker A: Okay, next we're going to be talking about the field is white and all ready to harvest. This is something that's repeated eight times in Doctrine and Covenants. We've already covered it a few times. [00:34:28] Speaker B: Well, what's a few More. [00:34:29] Speaker A: What's a few more? We definitely have a few more to cover. And this one's specifically referring to Hyrum Smith, and he's asking the Lord, asking Joseph to find out what the Lord would want him, would want him to do in response to that revelation. That's when Joseph Smith tells him the field is white and all ready to harvest. And I think it's pretty neat, the scripture, even though it shows up eight times in Doctrine and Covenants, I think it only shows up one other time in scriptures outside of Doctrine and Covenants, and that's in the Book of Revelation, chapter 14. And in that instance, it's talking about the Lord at the end times. And we've mentioned this before when we talk about the wheat and the tares, right? And he says, don't harvest the wheat or don't pull out the tares until the end. So we ought to be able to see the difference between the two. But specifically talking about the field being white and ready to harvest, it's in Revelation 17. And here we go. Verse 15. Well, verse 14. And I looked and beheld a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat, like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle. And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, thrust in thy sickle and reap. For the time has come for thee to reap, for the harvest of the earth is ripe. [00:36:04] Speaker B: So let me see if I am picking up what you are putting down. This isn't just about missionary work. It is time for the wheat to be separated from the tares in preparation for the Lord coming again. [00:36:20] Speaker A: It is in doctrine and covenants here, not doctrine, covenants in Revelation. Who is the one reaping? God is the one that's reaping. So when he's saying that we thrust in our sickle and reap, we are doing God's work. And it's missionary work, certainly a part of it. But I think it goes so much more than that. And how we can participate in that reaping. We are an extension of his hand. He's sitting there with the sickle ready to go. And at the end, he says, now I'm going to be thrusting in and reaping, and you guys are all going to be reaping. You are the hand of God. You are acting for God when you do this. But like you said, the cool thing here is Hyrum Smith is told this at the very beginning, right? Thrust in your sickle, go and reap. But then a couple verses later, he says, specifically, do not preach my gospel. And so many times we associate this with missionary work, but right here, he's being told to reap without preaching the gospel because he says, don't preach it, because we haven't even restored the church yet. Seek first to obtain my word, then you can go and preach my word. I don't want you preaching the gospel yet. But yes, please, by all means, start reaping. So reaping is not necessarily grabbing souls like they are wheat and tares. And I think this goes back to our discussion when we started this podcast, is we're poor judges of character, and a lot of times we are painting people out to be tares when they're actually wheat. And that's the environment that Joseph Smith was in when they're saying, low here or over here. And if you don't do this, you're going to hell. And if you want to go to heaven, you have to do this. We're trying to separate people into wheat and tares. Black and white, black and white, but they're sowing so much division and painting each other as if they're tares that they're really more like the adversary who is sowing tares and trying to make it hard for us to know which is wheat and which is tare. So when we're thrusting in our sickle and reaping, I believe what we're doing is we're. We're building up the kingdom of God by trying to build Zion here, where we have one heart and one mind, and we are collecting the wheat. And how do you collect the wheat? By not trying to be divisive and calling people tares and saying, oh, you're this or oh, you're that, when we don't know, we're letting God make that judgment. But we're being a lot more accepting. We're being a lot more tolerant. And as we do that and as love increases on the Earth, you'll see more and more people that you thought were tares turned out to be wheat in the end. And we're not having confusion. Instead, we're gathering. [00:38:57] Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, obviously, what a. What an appropriate message for the. For the world that we live in right now. The. The social and political climate. Maybe. Maybe we're not. It's not us versus or you versus me. And instead, maybe we're all actually the ones on the same team, and we should all be unifying in our cause to fight Injustice and not each other. I don't know. [00:39:26] Speaker A: Yeah, I mean, when we understand that people have concerns and people have fears, and sometimes they act out in those concerns or their fears. And I mean, you talk about the political atmosphere of the United States right now, where it's so easy to say this half of the country is righteous because they're trying to do this, and the other half is just wicked because they're lazy or because of this, that or the other. It's easy for us to point fingers and say we're right and they're wrong and we're trying to gather, if you will, wheat or tares according to our own judgment. But as God so succinctly put it, you don't always judge correctly between right and wrong. So maybe you should leave that up to me. Ask me, and maybe not confuse the issue and sow tares where there are wheat to be gathered. Take time to listen. Take time to understand other people's fears. Take time to love them and help pull them together. And I think that's what the field is white and ready to harvest. And thrusting our sickle in is creating a society in which we feel comfortable and happy and protected to live in. Who could imagine a Zion where you're worried if people are going to love or accept you because of the color of your skin or because of what you're doing, or because of the division that's around, that's not a Zion. If we want to be building and if we want to be bringing out the best in people, we better be doing it in a way that people feel loved, that people feel accepted, that we can hear, listen and just build that unity and be examples of light. So I love it. Yeah. Like you said about the Scriptures in so many different layers. When you see this verse in context of the section right before it, when he's saying you don't always judge righteously. I just. I don't know. I love how it all kind of just sits together and feels complete. You know, the Lord's driving his message. [00:41:25] Speaker B: I'm sorry, Martin Harris, for. At the beginning of this episode, determining with a blanket statement that you're a wicked man. I was just going off of what God said in this verse and some of the reported situation issues. But I take back my false certainty about what I said. I'm sorry. [00:41:49] Speaker A: Yeah. Who knows? It's hard, you know, if you cite with the Lord, you usually can't go wrong. [00:41:54] Speaker B: But I'm citing with the Lord on this one, Martin. Sorry. I take back my apology but, you know, who knows? [00:42:01] Speaker A: And maybe he was wicked at that time. But who's to say people can't change? Because if there's no changing, then what are we even doing here? [00:42:09] Speaker B: Right? [00:42:11] Speaker A: Awesome. Well, thanks for listening to the show. [00:42:16] Speaker B: What are we doing next week? What do we got on tap? [00:42:20] Speaker A: Next week we are going to be talking about the restoration of the Aaronic priesthood. [00:42:25] Speaker B: Awesome. [00:42:26] Speaker A: Yeah. We're gonna have a few questions and just kind of talk about the context of that doctrine. Covenants, section 12. Excuse me. 13 and 12 and 13. And then the end of Joseph Smith history. [00:42:38] Speaker B: Awesome. [00:42:39] Speaker A: All right. All right. [00:42:40] Speaker B: Well, until next week. [00:42:41] Speaker A: See ya. Sa.